Another (tricky) income tax question

[BenStark]

For years do I have a significant amount in US$ in an FCD with Kbank.

 

Since it is in an FCD, I think technically it isn't remitted to a Thai bank account yet.

 

If I exchange it to Thai baht and deposit it in my bank account after the new year, will I pay income tax on it?

[Mike Lister]

Your Kbank account is with Kasikorn in Thailand, the funds have been remitted to Thailand, regardless of the currency or account type.

[BenStark]

Just now, Mike Lister said:

Your Kbank account is with Kasikorn in Thailand, the funds have been remitted to Thailand, regardless of the currency or account type.

 

I'm not sure about that, because previously I also had a Euro FCD with them.

 

When I sent the money back to Europe, they could not do it straight away, but they had to first convert it to Thai baht, then convert it back to Euro as they can't send baht out of the country.

 

If the balance in the FCD was already in Thailand, why they couldn't send it back without the exchanges?

 

I know for sure other banks have the same procedure

[Mike Lister]

1 minute ago, BenStark said:

 

I'm not sure about that, because previously I also had a Euro FCD with them.

 

When I sent the money back to Europe, they could not do it straight away, but they had to first convert it to Thai baht, then convert it back to Euro as they can't send baht out of the country.

 

If the balance in the FCD was already in Thailand, why they couldn't send it back without the exchanges?

 

I know for sure other banks have the same procedure

I'm sure!

 

The Thai Baht is a restricted currency which cannot be exported in any quantity, all banks convert baht to foreign currency first.

 

The terms of a resident Fixed Currency Account often specify that the bank is paid a fee equal to the currency conversion rate, if the foreign currency is exported and not changed into Baht in Thailand. There are very different rules for a non resident foreign currency account where funds can be transferred straight away, without being exchanged first.

[BenStark]

8 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

I'm sure!

 

The Thai Baht is a restricted currency which cannot be exported in any quantity, all banks convert baht to foreign currency first.

 

The terms of a resident Fixed Currency Account often specify that the bank is paid a fee equal to the currency conversion rate, if the foreign currency is exported and not changed into Baht in Thailand. There are very different rules for a non resident foreign currency account where funds can be transferred straight away, without being exchanged first.

 

I'm sure you are well aware that FCD stands for Foreign Currency Deposit and not Fixed Currency Deposit.

 

So you are just talking around the question.

 

11 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

There are very different rules for a non resident foreign currency account where funds can be transferred straight away, without being exchanged first.

 

I'm obviously not a resident and every bank in Thailand will exchange the Foreign currency in the FCD first to Thai baht, then back to foreign currency, before sending it back

 

[Mike Lister]

10 minutes ago, BenStark said:

 

I'm sure you are well aware that FCD stands for Foreign Currency Deposit and not Fixed Currency Deposit.

 

So you are just talking around the question.

 

 

I'm obviously not a resident and every bank in Thailand will exchange the Foreign currency in the FCD first to Thai baht, then back to foreign currency, before sending it back

 

There are two types of bank account in Thailand, a Resident Bank Account, which is the current default, and a Non-Resident Account which was the default for most foreigners until a few years ago. A non-resident bank account must be specifically requested. A non-resident bank account allows foreign currency to be transferred in and out, without limit, without supporting paperwork, without prior approval and without conversion to another currency first. I held such an account with HSBC Thailand for many years, when HSBC offered retail bank accounts here.

 

You say that you are not resident in Thailand, what ever that means, presumably you mean you are are not tax resident here. Presumably also, your foreign currency deposit account is a resident account, is that the case? I believe the answer must be yes, otherwise you would  not have to go through the process of exchange that you describe. Perhaps you can confirm those things before going any further?

 

 

[Mike Lister]

Whilst we're waiting:

 

If you send foreign currency, from your foreign currency account in Thailand, back over seas, the bank charges you a fee in lieu of exchange, they don't actually exchange those funds, they simply charge you.

 

But the issue is none of the things we've discussed thus far, the issue is whether funds arriving in your account in Thailand are deemed to have arrived for tax purposes or whether they must first be exchanged into Baht before that happens.

 

NOWHERE in the RD rules does it say that incoming funds must be in THB, remitted funds can be in any currency you wish, the fact that the receiving bank may or may not exchange that currency, into THB, is irrelevant. Also, NOWHERE in RD rules does it say that a bank account must be of a certain type, the account type is also irrelevant.

 

All that  matters is that funds are remitted and received, end of, unless of course the account type is genuinely a Non Resident Account, which based on  what you've written, it is almost certainly not..

[BenStark]

How any foreigner on a Non O or B visa or visa extension can be a resident?

 

The money is in the FCD for 8 years already, which I consider a bit longer than a few years.

 

I asked the call centre of 3 banks before I send the money to Thailand in 2015, and all told me about the same procedure.

 

Exchange the foreign currency to Thai baht first, pay a commission, of 0.5% if USD or 1% if Euro, on that transaction and then exchange back to foreign currency before sending back.

 

I'm sure you have a credible source link to prove your claims?

[BenStark]

6 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

If you send foreign currency, from your foreign currency account in Thailand, back over seas, the bank charges you a fee in lieu of exchange, they don't actually exchange those funds, they simply charge you.

 

They exchange to Thai baht effectively, and I have the documents to prove it

 

6 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

NOWHERE in the RD rules does it say that incoming funds must be in THB, remitted funds can be in any currency you wish, the fact that the receiving bank may or may not exchange that currency, into THB, is irrelevant. Also, NOWHERE in RD rules does it say that a bank account must be of a certain type, the account type is also irrelevant.

 

You seem to better informed about the rules than anyone else in Thailand, because I just called the bank with that question, and their answer was that they don't have a policy on it yet, because they don't know the rules yet

Edited December 26, 2023 by BenStark

[Celsius]

2 minutes ago, BenStark said:

 

They exchange to Thai baht effectively, and I have the documents to prove it

 

 

You seem to better informed about the rules than anyone else in Thailand, because I just called the bank with that question, and their answer was that they don't have a policy on it yet, because they don't know anything yet

 

Yea... I'd trust a forum source more than a call centre drone in this case.

 

Up 2 u

 

 

 

 

[Woof999]

Is there any point in answering the question? OP seems to know everything (except the answer).

[BenStark]

1 minute ago, Woof999 said:

Is there any point in answering the question? OP seems to know everything (except the answer).

 

 

Woof woof, feel free to move to anothr thread and get lost

[Mike Lister]

5 minutes ago, BenStark said:

 

They exchange to Thai baht effectively, and I have the documents to prove it

 

 

You seem to better informed about the rules than anyone else in Thailand, because I just called the bank with that question, and their answer was that they don't have a policy on it yet, because they don't know the rules yet

Ben, two things but first of all, may I suggest, respectfully, that you read the rules governing your foreign currency deposit account, in order to better understand them.

 

Firstly, do you really imagine that the bank goes through a physical process of exchanging your Euro's into Baht and then when they've finished, exchanging them back again....please tell me you don't believe they actually do that.

 

Secondly, may I also suggest that calling the bank call center on this is not the best thing. The people you need to ask, if you really feel the need to do so, is the RD and ask them whether they have a definition of a bank account and currency, for remitted funds purposes. It seems pretty basic really, funds are funds and bank accounts are bank accounts!

[BenStark]

6 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

Firstly, do you really imagine that the bank goes through a physical process of exchanging your Euro's into Baht and then when they've finished, exchanging them back again....please tell me you don't believe they actually do that.

 

 

Did I ever say it happens physically? I said I had the documents to prove it, which means, the document shows how many Thai baht my Euros

 

15 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

Secondly, may I also suggest that calling the bank call center on this is not the best thing.

 

Here are the rules for resident and non-resident FCD with Kbank, which clearly show the only option for a foreigner on a visa is non-resiident.

 

When you click on the links at the bottom of the page it also shows the fees for withdrawal of the specific currencies, and bank insists that it get withdrawn, then exchange back to foreign currency to send back.

 

https://www.kasikornbank.com/en/personal/account/pages/foreign-currency.aspx

 

Still waiting for your link that shows this is not the procedure for non resident FCD

[Mike Lister]

Here's a link to a prominent Bangkok law firm that explains resident and non resident bank accounts;

 

https://www.tilleke.com/insights/banking-thailand-resident-or-non-resident-account/#:~:text=Resident and non-resident bank,similar to an offshore account.

[Mike Lister]

1 minute ago, BenStark said:

 

Did I ever say it happens physically? I said I had the documents to prove it, which means, the document shows how many Thai baht my Euros

 

 

Here are the rules for resident and non-resident FCD with Kbank, which clearly show the only option for a foreigner on a visa is non-resiident.

 

When you click on the links at the bottom of the page it also shows the fees for withdrawal of the specific currencies, and bank insists that it get withdrawn, then exchange back to foreign currency to send back.

 

https://www.kasikornbank.com/en/personal/account/pages/foreign-currency.aspx

 

Still waiting for your link that shows this is not the procedure for non resident FCD

Given your attitude Ben, you're on your own from hereon, you get no more assistance from me. Bye.

[CharlieKo]

19 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

It seems pretty basic really, funds are funds and bank accounts are bank accounts!

Exactly right. Regardless of the funds remitted, if it's in a Thai bank account. Those funds have been remitted in Thailand.

[BenStark]

10 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

Here's a link to a prominent Bangkok law firm that explains resident and non resident bank accounts;

 

https://www.tilleke.com/insights/banking-thailand-resident-or-non-resident-account/#:~:text=Resident and non-resident bank,similar to an offshore account.

 

Well your article confirms that the money is NOT in Thailand

 

A resident bank account is, in theory, one owned by a person residing in Thailand for regular use within Thailand, while a non-resident bank account refers to one owned by a person having no presence or residence in Thailand. For the purpose of a resident bank account, Thai residence can be proved by a permanent residence permit or a valid work permit in Thailand.

In principle, a foreigner who has no proof of residence in Thailand can only open a non-resident bank account;

 

Resident and non-resident bank accounts differ mainly in respect of remitting funds out of Thailand. This is because a resident bank account is considered an account within Thailand, while a non-resident bank account is treated in a manner similar to an offshore account.

Edited December 26, 2023 by BenStark

[BenStark]

9 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

Given your attitude Ben, you're on your own from hereon, you get no more assistance from me. Bye.

 

I hope so, you had the same attitude on your previous 5 usernames when called out on your erroneous knowledge, I recall.

 

Tell us again about your janitor job at UK and US banks

Edited December 26, 2023 by BenStark

[Mike Lister]

5 minutes ago, BenStark said:

 

I hope so, you had the same attitude on your previous 5 usernames I recall.

 

Tell us again about your janitor job at UK and US banks

Before I add you to my ignore list, you don't appear able to distinguish between YOU being non resident and YOUR BANK ACOOUNT BEING A NON-RESIDENT ACCOUNT, a question you still haven't answered.

[BenStark]

2 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

Before I add you to my ignore list, you don't appear able to distinguish between YOU being non resident and YOUR BANK ACOOUNT BEING A NON-RESIDENT ACCOUNT, a question you still haven't answered.

 

 

PLEASE add me to your ignore list NOW

 

You claimed that I as a non resident had a resident account. And since a non resident account is offshore, a Thai bank can not send it back overseas before they have received it.

 

Hence they have to exchange to Thai baht first, then back to foreign currency

 

Edited December 26, 2023 by BenStark

[Mike Lister]

28 minutes ago, BenStark said:

 

I hope so, you had the same attitude on your previous 5 usernames when called out on your erroneous knowledge, I recall.

 

Tell us again about your janitor job at UK and US banks

None of my usernames have ever suffered fools or rude people gladly!

 

Bye

[BenStark]

35 minutes ago, CharlieKo said:

Exactly right. Regardless of the funds remitted, if it's in a Thai bank account. Those funds have been remitted in Thailand.

 

A Non- Resident foreign currency account is considered offshore, so obviously not a Thai bank account.

 

https://www.tilleke.com/insights/banking-thailand-resident-or-non-resident-account/#:~:text=Resident and non-resident bank,similar to an offshore account.

32 minutes ago, BenStark said:

 

In principle, a foreigner who has no proof of residence in Thailand can only open a non-resident bank account;

 

Resident and non-resident bank accounts differ mainly in respect of remitting funds out of Thailand. This is because a resident bank account is considered an account within Thailand, while a non-resident bank account is treated in a manner similar to an offshore account.

 

https://www.kasikornbank.com/en/personal/account/pages/foreign-currency.aspx

 

FCD Accounts for Non-Residents (NR)

Qualifications
Individuals who are not of Thai nationality and do not have foreign identification or permanent residency in Thailand

Edited December 26, 2023 by BenStark

[Lacessit]

No-one seems to know.

I am wondering how anyone can be considered resident in Thailand, tax or otherwise, when they have to report to Immigration every 90 days.

[noobexpat]

2 hours ago, Lacessit said:

No-one seems to know.

I am wondering how anyone can be considered resident in Thailand, tax or otherwise, when they have to report to Immigration every 90 days.

 

The answer is 2.

 

But the stupidity of people's questions is apparently infinity.

[Moonlover]

No one in this whole thread has even tried to answer the O/P's query. 

5 hours ago, BenStark said:

For years do I have a significant amount in US$ in an FCD with Kbank.

 

Since it is in an FCD, I think technically it isn't remitted to a Thai bank account yet.

 

If I exchange it to Thai baht and deposit it in my bank account after the new year, will I pay income tax on it?

 

Why should you pay income tax on it? Income tax is paid on income, not capital.

 

That might sound a bit over simplistic but it's nonetheless true. You're talking about capital which is already in Thailand. You don't pay income tax on capital, only on the interest that you receive on that capital, which paid in the form of withholding tax, paid by the bank to the RD.

 

I don't think you have anything to worry about.

Edited December 26, 2023 by Moonlover

[BenStark]

6 minutes ago, Moonlover said:

No one in this whole thread has even tried to answer the O/P's query. 

 

Why should you pay income tax on it? Income tax is paid on income, not capital.

 

That might sound a bit over simplistic but it's nonetheless true. You're talking about capital which is already in Thailand. You don't pay income tax on capital only on the interest that you receive on that capital, which paid in the form of withholding tax, paid by the bank to the RD.

 

I don't think you have anything to worry about.

 

I'm not sure about that, because a foreigner can only have a non-resident foreign currency account. And according to the below link, that account is treated as an offshore account.

 

My understanding is that money in an offshore account is not considered to be in Thailand yet.

 

https://www.tilleke.com/insights/banking-thailand-resident-or-non-resident-account/#:~:text=Resident and non-resident bank,similar to an offshore account.

Edited December 26, 2023 by BenStark

[Moonlover]

19 minutes ago, BenStark said:

 

I'm not sure about that, because a foreigner can only have a non-resident foreign currency account. And according to the below link, that account is treated as an offshore account.

 

My understanding is that money in an offshore account is not considered to be in Thailand yet.

 

https://www.tilleke.com/insights/banking-thailand-resident-or-non-resident-account/#:~:text=Resident and non-resident bank,similar to an offshore account.

But it's still capital isn't it, not income.

Edited December 26, 2023 by Moonlover

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, noobexpat said:

 

The answer is 2.

 

But the stupidity of people's questions is apparently infinity.

I've found there are more stupid answers than there are stupid questions.

[noobexpat]

1 minute ago, Lacessit said:

I've found there are more stupid answers than there are stupid questions.

 

Yours was the exception to the rule! 

90 day reporting- don't be so idiotic.