Brexit has completely failed for UK, say clear majority of Britons – poll

[Chomper Higgot]

6 minutes ago, zhounan said:

They mean majority of wealthy Britons 

Quite the contrary.

[nauseus]

4 hours ago, RayC said:

 

It may be difficult but that is exactly what the various studies attempt to do. Imo the criticism of these studies is rarely more than a tautology: It's difficult to separate the effects of Brexit, therefore you can't conclude anything about the effects of Brexit.

 

Imo poor and lazy criticism.

 

 

The original report was indeed a few years ago but it is regularly updated.

 

 

I disagree. A few examples: The UK was one of the major influences in the formation of the Single Market and a strong supporter of the EU's attempts to forge trade deals. It can be argued be that the UK - together with France - largely dictated the EU foreign policy and diplomatic efforts. This was especially true when it came to defence issues.

 

 

It's true that with the expansion of the membership and more QMV, the influence of any one individual member state is lessened .... at least, in theory ...

but let's not pretend all member states are equal. France and Germany have more influence and power than Cyprus and Malta. When the UK was a member, it was one of the 'Big 3'.

 

Perhaps not. But the UK likes to think of itself as having a significant presence and influence on the world stage. In terms of size of the economy and population, the UK is somewhat smaller than Japan. As an individual nation, what real influence does Japan wield on the world state? 

 

Imo any influence that the UK had on the world stage was dependent on our membership of the larger bloc i.e. EU. Moreover, inside the EU we were of use to the US, outside of it less so.

 

 

I'm about to board a flight. You'll be pleased to know that I'll return to this point😂😉

 

Imo poor and lazy criticism - I wasn't actually criticizing rather pointing out a problem.

 

The original report was indeed a few years ago but it is regularly updated - I have not been directed to or following OBR reports. The OBR advertises itself as being independent but it was set up by a UK government, is funded by HM Treasury and led by ex Treasury and BoE people, supported by the CS. 

 

I disagree. A few examples: The UK was one of the major influences in the formation of the Single Market and a strong supporter of the EU's attempts to forge trade deals - but the UK was not a major influencer of the content of these deals and foreign and defence policies are not needed by pure trading blocs, rather by nation states. 

 

It's true that with the expansion of the membership and more QMV, the influence of any one individual member state is lessened .... at least, in theory ...- and in reality?

but let's not pretend all member states are equal - agree! 

France and Germany have more influence and power than Cyprus and Malta - er yes.

 When the UK was a member, it was one of the 'Big 3'. - but NOT a member of the biggest 2.

Perhaps not. But the UK likes to think of itself as having a significant presence and influence on the world stage. In terms of size of the economy and population, the UK is somewhat smaller than Japan. As an individual nation, what real influence does Japan wield on the world state? I take it that you mean stage? I don't agree with your version of what the UK '"likes". When the UK joined the "Common Market" there was no aspiration to wield influence around the world. The EU as a whole has never been strong enough to influence much of anything globally, as we have seen recently with Russia and Ukraine. 

 

Imo any influence that the UK had on the world stage was dependent on our membership of the larger bloc i.e. EU. Moreover, inside the EU we were of use to the US, outside of it less so. As you must have seen from recent events, the UK is still of far more "use" to the US than the EU is. I would call that poor and lazy criticism

 

Have a good flight.

Edited January 25 by nauseus