Popular Post Bandersnatch Posted January 12 Author Popular Post Share Posted January 12 13 hours ago, Jing Joe said: Bandersnatch said:- I drive my EV on excess solar power after I have powered my house and charged my solar batteries. I charge my EV from its dedicated panels and no battery is needed for that inverter*, whilst the house battery is charging from its own dedicated panels. *Dont trust the Queenswing inverter company claim that no battery is needed. I bet you love driving your EV too? Who cares much what they look like. and yes I took a picture at a supermarket park, not at Starbucks, but because 2 other EV parked beside mine. Interesting that you separate EV and home charging, I would like to know more. I am following a company that is developing DC charging direct from solar much more efficient as you are not inverting from DC to AC then back into DC in the car. Yes I do love driving my EV: I love the instant torque I love the 0-100km/h in 3.8 seconds without spinning my wheels I love that it has perfect 50:50 weight distribution I love that it has an incredible low centre of gravity and goes round corners like it’s on rails I love the drag coefficient of just 0.219 Cd which is better than a Porsche Taycan I love the regenerative breaking and not having to use the brake pedal I love the adaptive suspension I love that the battery pack is a structural component, increasing torsional stiffness and so increasing handling limits I love the Torque vectoring which sends power to which wheel needs it most I love that it only has one gear I love that it has a very long wheel base I love that it so silent to drive for me and other road users I love that I am not poisoning the pedestrians and motorbike riders around me when I drive or sit at the traffic lights I love being able to switch on the aircon while I’m still in the restaurant 2 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KhunLA Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 On 1/9/2024 at 7:56 AM, retarius said: I thought that the vehicle market is close to 1 Million units in Thailand? December sales are atypical of the year, about half of an average month. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retarius Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 58 minutes ago, KhunLA said: Thanks KhunLA, I read this morning that Hertz, who rushed into the EV market with a purchase of 100,000 Tesla Model 3s have found them too expensive to repair and they have impacted the bottom line for 2023. They are disposing of 20,000 of their older models for about $23000 each with about 80000 miles on them, and moving back to ICE for near future purchases. There was no word on the public's response to the sale. Hertz have them listed on their US website. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KhunLA Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 3 minutes ago, retarius said: Thanks KhunLA, I read this morning that Hertz, who rushed into the EV market with a purchase of 100,000 Tesla Model 3s have found them too expensive to repair and they have impacted the bottom line for 2023. They are disposing of 20,000 of their older models for about $23000 each with about 80000 miles on them, and moving back to ICE for near future purchases. There was no word on the public's response to the sale. Hertz have them listed on their US website. Here's my thoughts on that one. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Paulson Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 (edited) On 1/11/2024 at 10:53 PM, Gweiloman said: That’s amazing. Which Honda model is that? I don’t think even my 150 cc Honda PCX scooter can even give me that sort of figure. It’s a 3 cylinder city hatchback. I must say most people couldn’t do the 70mpg thing. I usually can’t. I’ve done trips at 70mpg but I need to keep the speed around I believe it’s 80kph or so. But yeah I agree it’s amazing. I hate to ever give govt more control but I think people should be forced into buying better fuel efficient cars. it also has some fuel efficient settings that I do use but don’t know how much they help. I think the eco fuel option does help (you lose some turbo feature or something I think), and when you’re idling in traffic you can set it to turn of and it restarts when you take your foot off the break. If I had to guess the turning off of the car at intersections is more of a gimmick but the eco fuel setting I do believe works, and the car is so light it has plenty of pickup for me. Edited January 14 by Robert Paulson 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Paulson Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 On 1/11/2024 at 3:49 PM, Pib said: What Honda model and year is that? Additionally, since you are using "miles" and "gallons" terminology a typical 100% electric vehicle (a.k.a., BEV) gets in the 120 to 150 "miles per gallon equivalent (MPG-e) ballpark"....approx twice what you say your little ICEV Honda was getting. My 2023 BYD Atto 3 BEV is rated at 134 MPGe. City hatchback 3 cylinder. I actually forget the year. Maybe a 2021. And as I mentioned you need to be cruising at around 70-80kph to get that mileage. But doing faster speeds I get in the 50-60mpg easily. and yes I would not be surprised if an ev beat my vehicle on equivalents. I just believe the overall picture withhow long we’ve been designing cars and refining the fuel that right now gas cars are better, IF we drive fuel efficient ones, which we don’t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Paulson Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 On 1/11/2024 at 4:01 PM, Bandersnatch said: You don't say which honda so I checked for the brio which is the smallest and most efficient. The official figures are 46 mpg‑US; 55 mpg-imp. Quite a bit different to your claimed 70mpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_Brio I drive my EV on excess solar power after I have powered my house and charged my solar batteries. Driving my EV does not produce any tailpipe emissions and as it powered by solar no CO2. Definitely a win for the EV. I don’t know where they get those numbers. It’s a 3 cyclinder. I’m also driving at the vehicles sweet spot, as defined by me. And it’s not very fast but the numbers are true. My main point really is I believe gas cars compete on fuel equivalence with everything considered but I could be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KhunLA Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 On 1/11/2024 at 2:49 PM, Pib said: What Honda model and year is that? Additionally, since you are using "miles" and "gallons" terminology a typical 100% electric vehicle (a.k.a., BEV) gets in the 120 to 150 "miles per gallon equivalent (MPG-e) ballpark"....approx twice what you say your little ICEV Honda was getting. My 2023 BYD Atto 3 BEV is rated at 134 MPGe. A quick google, and the best petrol car, economically fuel wise, seems to be around the 57 mpg mark. Agree, 70 mpg is a stretch, and 20% above the always skeptical ratings giving, even EPA testing, at perfect conditions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritManToo Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 49 minutes ago, KhunLA said: A quick google, and the best petrol car, economically fuel wise, seems to be around the 57 mpg mark. Agree, 70 mpg is a stretch, and 20% above the always skeptical ratings giving, even EPA testing, at perfect conditions. Done 6k+km on my Honda 160i scooter, the clock says average 53Km/ltr. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KhunLA Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 1 hour ago, BritManToo said: Done 6k+km on my Honda 160i scooter, the clock says average 53Km/ltr. 1 hour ago, KhunLA said: A quick google, and the best petrol car, economically fuel wise, seems to be around the 57 mpg mark. Agree, 70 mpg is a stretch, and 20% above the always skeptical ratings giving, even EPA testing, at perfect conditions. We get about 7.77 kms per kWh in car (7.775 X 46.3 = ~360 kms) ... ... E-MB, haven't a clue, maybe 20-25 kms per kWh, (20 or 25 X 3.6 = 75 or 90 kms). Cost per kms ... that's for a different thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pib Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 (edited) 3 hours ago, Robert Paulson said: City hatchback 3 cylinder. I actually forget the year. Maybe a 2021. And as I mentioned you need to be cruising at around 70-80kph to get that mileage. But doing faster speeds I get in the 50-60mpg easily. and yes I would not be surprised if an ev beat my vehicle on equivalents. I just believe the overall picture withhow long we’ve been designing cars and refining the fuel that right now gas cars are better, IF we drive fuel efficient ones, which we don’t. OK, thanks....when I google up a Honda City Hatchback, like a 1.0L engine, (see snapshot below) it does come back with approx 20km per liter range....converting that to "miles per US gallon" (since you were talking miles per gallon vs kilometers per liter) that results in approx 75 miles per US gallon like you said assuming you were talking US gallons. Now if you were talking "Imperial" gallons like used in some countries such as the UK then the Honda City gets around 90 miles per Imp/UK gallon. Appears a City 1.5L engine has about the same fuel efficiency from some other googling. Still a lot less than a typical EV like my BYD Atto BEV which gets 134 MPGe/US gallon or 161 MPGe/UK gallon. Or said in km/liter approx 35 km/L equivalent. Edited January 14 by Pib 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Paulson Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 2 hours ago, Pib said: OK, thanks....when I google up a Honda City Hatchback, like a 1.0L engine, (see snapshot below) it does come back with approx 20km per liter range....converting that to "miles per US gallon" (since you were talking miles per gallon vs kilometers per liter) that results in approx 75 miles per US gallon like you said assuming you were talking US gallons. Now if you were talking "Imperial" gallons like used in some countries such as the UK then the Honda City gets around 90 miles per Imp/UK gallon. Appears a City 1.5L engine has about the same fuel efficiency from some other googling. Still a lot less than a typical EV like my BYD Atto BEV which gets 134 MPGe/US gallon or 161 MPGe/UK gallon. Or said in km/liter approx 35 km/L equivalent. I really don’t know anything about those reported fuel estimate levels. I know I can get max 30km/L in this car if I drive a very particular way. My conversion of that is 70 miles per usa gallon. I didn’t even know there were other gallons. They do the same thing with miles eg nautical miles. There’s always something to add to the confusion 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Paulson Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 (edited) 5 hours ago, KhunLA said: A quick google, and the best petrol car, economically fuel wise, seems to be around the 57 mpg mark. Agree, 70 mpg is a stretch, and 20% above the always skeptical ratings giving, even EPA testing, at perfect conditions. What speed do they do those tests at? I would guess 65mph or even higher. If you are able to drive slower than that, say 50mph, your fuel economy is going to be much higher. I swear most people don’t know this. It’s too bad imo. I think a LOT of people would drive much slower if they knew how much gas they save. It’s also completely doable here in Thailand; you can’t really drive 50mph on most usa highways for example. Edited January 14 by Robert Paulson 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KhunLA Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 1 minute ago, Robert Paulson said: What speed do they do those tests at? I would guess 65mph or even higher. If you are able to drive slower than that, say 50mph, your fuel economy is going to be much higher. I swear most people don’t know this. It’s too bad imo. I think a LOT of people would drive much slower if they knew how much gas they save. It’s also completely doable here in Thailand; you can’t really drive 50mph on most usa highways for example. Agree and concede, as earlier stated, you get 70 mpg, and impressive. I just couldn't find that stat on google...oops. If really interested in saving money per mile, next car consider an EV, especially if living in TH. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gweiloman Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 2 hours ago, Pib said: OK, thanks....when I google up a Honda City Hatchback, like a 1.0L engine, (see snapshot below) it does come back with approx 20km per liter range....converting that to "miles per US gallon" (since you were talking miles per gallon vs kilometers per liter) that results in approx 75 miles per US gallon like you said assuming you were talking US gallons. Now if you were talking "Imperial" gallons like used in some countries such as the UK then the Honda City gets around 90 miles per Imp/UK gallon. Appears a City 1.5L engine has about the same fuel efficiency from some other googling. Still a lot less than a typical EV like my BYD Atto BEV which gets 134 MPGe/US gallon or 161 MPGe/UK gallon. Or said in km/liter approx 35 km/L equivalent. My calculator tells me that 20km/l is equivalent to 47 mi/gal (US) and 56.5 mi/gal (UK). To get 70 mpg, one has to be practically hypermiling behind trucks and so on. I tried this with my Prius and was able to get in excess of 70 mpg but if cruising on the motorway at 80 kph, I’m a bit sceptical. Not calling out @Robert Paulson but if you would recheck your figures and reconfirm, that is amazing fuel consumption figures. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Paulson Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 1 minute ago, Gweiloman said: My calculator tells me that 20km/l is equivalent to 47 mi/gal (US) and 56.5 mi/gal (UK). To get 70 mpg, one has to be practically hypermiling behind trucks and so on. I tried this with my Prius and was able to get in excess of 70 mpg but if cruising on the motorway at 80 kph, I’m a bit sceptical. Not calling out @Robert Paulson but if you would recheck your figures and reconfirm, that is amazing fuel consumption figures. No I don’t blame you. It’s what I can get though. I think the discrepancy is the slow speed I’m driving. Everyone else would find that completely unbearable or intolerable. And cars aren’t tested at these speeds with fuel consumption figures either (I mean I’m sure they are not because it’s not typical). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billd766 Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 On 1/10/2024 at 3:19 PM, br12stol said: I think only having a dealer in Bangkok is the killer. Surely after a year you would expect at least Chiang Mai, Central Isaan, Central ,South and East Thailand to have dealers with service centers from such an Established company. BYD even has a dealer in Kamphaeng Phet. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pib Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 1 hour ago, Gweiloman said: My calculator tells me that 20km/l is equivalent to 47 mi/gal (US) and 56.5 mi/gal (UK). To get 70 mpg, one has to be practically hypermiling behind trucks and so on. I tried this with my Prius and was able to get in excess of 70 mpg but if cruising on the motorway at 80 kph, I’m a bit sceptical. Not calling out @Robert Paulson but if you would recheck your figures and reconfirm, that is amazing fuel consumption figures. You are right....I made a math error. I did it all by hand/in my head vs finding an online calculator....don't hire my hand & head to do your taxes as you might end up in jail. What I originally did was simply determine how many liters there were in 1 US gallon (3.78 liters) and then multiplied 20Km/L by 3.78 liters to get 75.6....which would have 75.6 kilometers and not miles. I failed to then convert those 75.6 kilometers to miles by multiplying 75.6 by 0.62 to get 47 miles per gallon like you got. Ditto similar error on my IMP/UK gallon conversion. So, yea, back to Robert regarding his 70mpg US gallon estimate very questionable....unless he swapped out his Honda City 1.0L or 1.5L motor for a Briggs & Stratton lawn mower motor. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Paulson Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 13 hours ago, Pib said: You are right....I made a math error. I did it all by hand/in my head vs finding an online calculator....don't hire my hand & head to do your taxes as you might end up in jail. What I originally did was simply determine how many liters there were in 1 US gallon (3.78 liters) and then multiplied 20Km/L by 3.78 liters to get 75.6....which would have 75.6 kilometers and not miles. I failed to then convert those 75.6 kilometers to miles by multiplying 75.6 by 0.62 to get 47 miles per gallon like you got. Ditto similar error on my IMP/UK gallon conversion. So, yea, back to Robert regarding his 70mpg US gallon estimate very questionable....unless he swapped out his Honda City 1.0L or 1.5L motor for a Briggs & Stratton lawn mower motor. I dug into this a tad. It turns out the highway fuel mileage numbers can be calculated as high as 80mph! There’s a lot of info on cars and ideal speeds for gas mileage but usually a car will get its best mileage around 50mph. But how much better? I found info readily available if you drive 80mph vs the ideal 50mph that roughly translates to around 30% more fuel consumption! Hey don’t listen to me check it out yourselves. My numbers seem right on to me I did them myself and now I see the online numbers are sorta backing them up. Y’all aren’t forgetting it’s a 3 cylinder, right? I really don’t know how much that helps but it seems it would. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Paulson Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 If it were up to me this sticker would be on every cars dashboard, oil company’s worst nightmare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pib Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 10 minutes ago, Robert Paulson said: I dug into this a tad. It turns out the highway fuel mileage numbers can be calculated as high as 80mph! There’s a lot of info on cars and ideal speeds for gas mileage but usually a car will get its best mileage around 50mph. But how much better? I found info readily available if you drive 80mph vs the ideal 50mph that roughly translates to around 30% more fuel consumption! Hey don’t listen to me check it out yourselves. My numbers seem right on to me I did them myself and now I see the online numbers are sorta backing them up. Y’all aren’t forgetting it’s a 3 cylinder, right? I really don’t know how much that helps but it seems it would. Just provide a weblink showing your Honda City car gets around 70 miles per gallon (US). I don't think "your" calculations are convincing anyone you are indeed getting around 70mgh highway in your Honda City. Go to below U.S govt EPA weblink to see official MPG ratings for a variety of 2021 compact cars like your Honda City...it shows city and highway speed MPG. You see they are in the 30 to 40 mpg ballpark...not 70mpg. https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/bymake/Honda2021.shtml Or go to this website where Honda City drivers have reported their actual MPG....554 Honda City drivers have reported their MPG...the great, great majority report MPG in the 30 to 40 mpg ballpark. https://www.fuelly.com/car/honda/city 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebike Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 Wow, r we off topic... BOT, uptake is impressive. Opportunity for entrepreneurial Thais to put charging stations all over the place. Hint, all those quaint roadside coffee shops could use a charger... 😉 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bday Prang Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 swings and roundabouts 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post mikebike Posted January 15 Popular Post Share Posted January 15 (edited) I guess some people don't know that there is extraction grade lithium all over North America. Just need the political will to make money off a new resource, rather than an old one. Then the same greasy folks could power your EV F150. Edited January 15 by mikebike 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Paulson Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 1 hour ago, Pib said: Just provide a weblink showing your Honda City car gets around 70 miles per gallon (US). I don't think "your" calculations are convincing anyone you are indeed getting around 70mgh highway in your Honda City. Go to below U.S govt EPA weblink to see official MPG ratings for a variety of 2021 compact cars like your Honda City...it shows city and highway speed MPG. You see they are in the 30 to 40 mpg ballpark...not 70mpg. https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/bymake/Honda2021.shtml Or go to this website where Honda City drivers have reported their actual MPG....554 Honda City drivers have reported their MPG...the great, great majority report MPG in the 30 to 40 mpg ballpark. https://www.fuelly.com/car/honda/city There are no 3 cylinders in that list. This is a Thailand Honda. it says right on their website it gets 55mpg. And like I said, maybe that’s driving 80mph. If we assume that, and I’m driving 50mph, the numbers shake out just about right with the 30% or so savings driving that much slower 50mph vs 80mph (see previous post). https://www.honda.co.th/models-compare-result?model_id=39&grade_id=48&back_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.honda.co.th%2Fcityhatchback I really don’t care if anyone believes me I guess. I’d be willing to put up a sizeable about in PayPal however and go drive 100km down highway 4 if anyone wants to make a bet on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post KhunLA Posted January 15 Popular Post Share Posted January 15 (edited) 1 hour ago, Bday Prang said: swings and roundabouts A photo with no source or credit. Google search or 'Rod Lynn with Raymond Dodds' .... no results, except the meme The countries with the 10 largest Lithium mines: Lithium workers in Austraalia Lithium workers in Chile Lithium mine workers in Zimbabwe Lithium mine workers in Bolivia Lithium workers in Argentina Oh look how eco friendly oil is: Edited January 15 by KhunLA 1 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lacessit Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 When EV's start getting more than 50% of the market, I will start sitting up and taking notice. I will take even more notice when legislators decree any vehicle older than 15 0r 20 years must be taken off the road. Thailand's EV market penetration is predicted to be nearly 9% by the end of the year, Japan seems to be stuck on 3%. Possibly that is due to the difference in public transport infrastructure. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bday Prang Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 14 minutes ago, KhunLA said: A photo with no source or credit. just like your photo's simply pictures of people working. Are you suggesting that lithium mining does not take place in third world countries, and that children are never involved ? The following link from a lefty NGO should make interesting reading for you https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2016/01/child-labour-behind-smart-phone-and-electric-car-batteries/ I think its only to be expected that most companies using lithium would use the cheapest source available, despite what they say I am neither for or against the use of electric vehicles but I refuse to be emotionally blackmailed by the narrative that they will save the world 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post richard_smith237 Posted January 15 Popular Post Share Posted January 15 (edited) 32 minutes ago, KhunLA said: A photo with no source or credit. Google search or 'Rod Lynn with Raymond Dodds' .... no results, except the meme The countries with the 10 largest Lithium mines: Lithium workers in Austraalia Lithium workers in Chile Lithium mine workers in Zimbabwe Lithium mine workers in Bolivia Lithium workers in Argentina Oh look how eco friendly oil is: Lets cherry pick the extremes of the spectrum to fit our rhetoric (both ends of the spectrum). The reality is neither Lithium mining or the Oil Industry is particularly environmental friendly.... Both are necessary and we cannot do without either... One maybe is less environmentally friendly than the other - but I'm not yet convinced which and there are a lot of studies on this, the issue is the bias and politicisation behind such studies. We should instead be concentrating on how to 'clean up' the things we need instead of attempting to eradicate critical sources of energy and raw materials for our storage - we desperately need both hydrocarbon energy sources and batteries. The dichotomisation of the argument with the loudest most extreme voices weakens the discussion of the true solutions such as a need for carbon recapture technology. Edited January 15 by richard_smith237 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Bandersnatch Posted January 15 Author Popular Post Share Posted January 15 2 hours ago, Bday Prang said: swings and roundabouts Another EV hater demonstrating his ignorance, by thinking that Lithium and Cobalt are the same! The bottom picture is supposed to represent Artisanal cobalt mining in the Democratic Republic of the Congo. Even if the meme creator and the poster actually knew this they would still be wrong as most new EVs use lithium iron phosphate for cathode chemistry with no Cobalt. Cobalt is however used in fossil fuel refining as Cobalt helps to clean sulfur impurities that interfere with the refining of liquid fuels 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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