Joint Bank Account with Thai partner

[Negita43]

I was just about to open a joint bank account with my Thai partner (of 12 years) to make it easier for her to access money if something happens to me - however:

With the implimentation of the recent rules about foreigners having to pay tax on "income" remitted from overseas I am wondering if that is such a good idea as it might complicate her tax position - she has a government pension and already pays tax.

[retarius]

I think this is a question for the experts. But perhaps the money from you should go into a sole account.

 

I did ask a question on Mike Lister's forum about me giving my g/f money as gift from abroad....gifts are, I think, tax free under 10 million baht and 5% over that ( I might be wrong). I don't think I got a response, perhaps meaning, that it was sailing too close to the wind, and maybe he has professional ethics etc to consider. I didn't pursue it further. 

 

If I send my gf a gift of 2 million baht each year and she uses the money to maintain our household, would that attract tax? Would that change if I had it sent from a joint or sole from my son in the US?

[Mike Lister]

1 hour ago, retarius said:

I think this is a question for the experts. But perhaps the money from you should go into a sole account.

 

I did ask a question on Mike Lister's forum about me giving my g/f money as gift from abroad....gifts are, I think, tax free under 10 million baht and 5% over that ( I might be wrong). I don't think I got a response, perhaps meaning, that it was sailing too close to the wind, and maybe he has professional ethics etc to consider. I didn't pursue it further. 

 

If I send my gf a gift of 2 million baht each year and she uses the money to maintain our household, would that attract tax? Would that change if I had it sent from a joint or sole from my son in the US?

The problem with the Gift Tax issue is that there are some aspects that are unclear so it's difficult to give any answer with confidence. Gifts between hu8sband and wife are set out in the RD Code, up to 20 million is free of tax. But how that would play out when a foreign spouse was involved and the gits are from overseas and destined to go into a joint account owned by both husband and wife, is messy. Many government see gift tax as a way to get around paying tax, done properly it's legal, pushed too far it's not and I don't know in the case of Thailand where that line is.

 

 

[Mike Lister]

2 hours ago, Negita43 said:

I was just about to open a joint bank account with my Thai partner (of 12 years) to make it easier for her to access money if something happens to me - however:

With the implimentation of the recent rules about foreigners having to pay tax on "income" remitted from overseas I am wondering if that is such a good idea as it might complicate her tax position - she has a government pension and already pays tax.

Re: joint accounts. When a couple open an account together, they open a single account in joint names. When that same couple open an either/or account, they each open the account individually, even though there's only a single account, both must fill out account opening forms. The disadvantage to the former is that the account must be frozen when one person dies so the other person is unable to transact on the account, until the will of the deceased has been processed through Probate Court.

 

The advantage of the either/or account is that the account is owned by whoever transact on it, there is no reliance on the other person and the account can remain open. Another advantage of the either/or account is that one person is designated as being responsible for tax on the account, when  the account is opened.

 

Neither a joint nor an neither/or account works for immigration purposes. 

[anchadian]

55 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

Re: joint accounts. When a couple open an account together, they open a single account in joint names. When that same couple open an either/or account, they each open the account individually, even though there's only a single account, both must fill out account opening forms. The disadvantage to the former is that the account must be frozen when one person dies so the other person is unable to transact on the account, until the will of the deceased has been processed through Probate Court.

 

The advantage of the either/or account is that the account is owned by whoever transact on it, there is no reliance on the other person and the account can remain open. Another advantage of the either/or account is that one person is designated as being responsible for tax on the account, when  the account is opened.

 

Neither a joint nor an neither/or account works for immigration purposes. 

Is it my understanding therefore that an either/or account the passing of one holder the remaining sole holder has full access of the account?

Edited January 24 by anchadian

[Denim]

1 hour ago, anchadian said:

Is it my understanding therefore that an either/or account the passing of one holder the remaining sole holder has full access of the account?

 

There was a thread on this very subject last week.

 

The legal position is that even if you have a joint account with your partner ,should one of you die the account is frozen and the surviving holder has no legal right to withdraw funds from the account. It has to go to probate and the court will decide and issue the relevant legal documents to release the money in the joint account to whoever has the right to it.

 

Of course, the surviving partner could use an ATM card to withdraw the funds but this could lead to problems later on since strictly speaking it is illegal even though some people might get away with it in the short term.

[Mike Lister]

2 minutes ago, Denim said:

 

There was a thread on this very subject last week.

 

The legal position is that even if you have a joint account with your partner ,should one of you die the account is frozen and the surviving holder has no legal right to withdraw funds from the account. It has to go to probate and the court will decide and issue the relevant legal documents to release the money in the joint account to whoever has the right to it.

 

Of course, the surviving partner could use an ATM card to withdraw the funds but this could lead to problems later on since strictly speaking it is illegal even though some people might get away with it in the short term.

A joint account yes, but not so with an either/or account.

 

An “Either or Survivor” account is a type of joint bank account where any one of the account holders can independently manage and transact on the account, and in case of the death of one account holder, the surviving individual(s) gains full control of the account without the need for legal procedures.Sep 7, 2565 BE

 

[Negita43]

30 minutes ago, Denim said:

There was a thread on this very subject last week.

Thread heading please

[mfd101]

I take it that an 'either/or' account means what I would think of as a joint account opened in both names but either partner can withdraw funds at any time? As opposed to a joint account where BOTH partners must sign to withdraw?

 

Is my understanding accurate?

[Mike Lister]

9 minutes ago, mfd101 said:

I take it that an 'either/or' account means what I would think of as a joint account opened in both names but either partner can withdraw funds at any time? As opposed to a joint account where BOTH partners must sign to withdraw?

 

Is my understanding accurate?

No, it's a different class of account. An application for a joint account is a single application that two people sign, there is a facility within that application to specify how many people must sign in order to transact, which can vary based on needs. 

 

But an either/or account application is completed separately by both parties and then brought together in a single account. There is no facility to specify how many people must sign, whoever has the book or transacts on the account, is the full and complete owner. The only time the two parties do need to come together is to close the account.

[Lacessit]

10 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

No, it's a different class of account. An application for a joint account is a single application that two people sign, there is a facility within that application to specify how many people must sign in order to transact, which can vary based on needs. 

 

But an either/or account application is completed separately by both parties and then brought together in a single account. There is no facility to specify how many people must sign, whoever has the book or transacts on the account, is the full and complete owner. The only time the two parties do need to come together is to close the account.

I have a savings passbook in my own name, and my GF's. I can draw on it alone, so can she when I am in Australia. Is that not an either/or account?

[Yellowtail]

3 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

Re: joint accounts. When a couple open an account together, they open a single account in joint names. When that same couple open an either/or account, they each open the account individually, even though there's only a single account, both must fill out account opening forms. The disadvantage to the former is that the account must be frozen when one person dies so the other person is unable to transact on the account, until the will of the deceased has been processed through Probate Court.

 

The advantage of the either/or account is that the account is owned by whoever transact on it, there is no reliance on the other person and the account can remain open. Another advantage of the either/or account is that one person is designated as being responsible for tax on the account, when  the account is opened.

 

Neither a joint nor an neither/or account works for immigration purposes. 

Is the bummer about the joint accounts that you do not get online access? I know we don't at BKK and Krunsri. 

[Mike Lister]

6 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

I have a savings passbook in my own name, and my GF's. I can draw on it alone, so can she when I am in Australia. Is that not an either/or account?

It depends what you asked for when you opened it, physically there is not much to distinguish between them. My guess is that you may have a joint account but I can't know for sure. My wife and I have one at UOB (Thai), it created quite a panic when I said I wanted us to open one because the branch staff had never opened one before. It took a number of calls to HO to get the paperwork straight.

[Mike Lister]

4 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Is the bummer about the joint accounts that you do not get online access? I know we don't at BKK and Krunsri. 

Er, ...dunno actually, probably not...I'll check.

[Yellowtail]

Just now, Mike Lister said:

It depends what you asked for when you opened it, physically there is not much to distinguish between them. My guess is that you may have a joint account but I can't know for sure. My wife and I have one at UOB (Thai), it created quite a panic when I said I wanted us to open one because the branch staff had never opened one before. It took a number of calls to HO to get the paperwork straight.

We have either or at both, and tried to get online use and we got the can-not. 

 

Do you have online access with UOB? I've been going to open an account with them since they took over my Citi credit card but have not gotten around to it. 

[Mike Lister]

1 minute ago, Yellowtail said:

We have either or at both, and tried to get online use and we got the can-not. 

 

Do you have online access with UOB? I've been going to open an account with them since they took over my Citi credit card but have not gotten around to it. 

Yes, we both see that account, along with all our other accounts and bits and pieces, on the UOB app. But I don't know about the PC version, I've stopped using that. 

[Yellowtail]

11 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

Yes, we both see that account, along with all our other accounts and bits and pieces, on the UOB app. But I don't know about the PC version, I've stopped using that. 

Thanks, I'll look into it. 

 

How's the app? I really like the Kasikorn app. 

[Mike Lister]

1 minute ago, Yellowtail said:

Thanks, I'll look into it. 

 

How's the app? I really like the Kasikorn app. 

It's OK, it does the job. I really like the Bangkok Bank account/app, excellent security, account balances with every transaction, offline copies of all trans vis SMS....neat.

[Lacessit]

47 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

It depends what you asked for when you opened it, physically there is not much to distinguish between them. My guess is that you may have a joint account but I can't know for sure. My wife and I have one at UOB (Thai), it created quite a panic when I said I wanted us to open one because the branch staff had never opened one before. It took a number of calls to HO to get the paperwork straight.

Our account was with Bangkok Bank, it may have helped I already had 800K on deposit with them. IIRC the process took about an hour, and I got writer's cramp signing the usual reams of paper.

[Denim]

2 hours ago, Negita43 said:

Thread heading please

 

Pretty comprehensive :

 

 

 

[tandor]

Question: Not really topic related, sorry!

I have a Savings Account with my 800k which i have (Thai) Willed to my partner.

How soon after death are Accounts 'frozen' (i would expect it would take some weeks after my Embassy had been notified and the Death Certificate cited).

Can anyone clarify please?

[Lacessit]

37 minutes ago, tandor said:

Question: Not really topic related, sorry!

I have a Savings Account with my 800k which i have (Thai) Willed to my partner.

How soon after death are Accounts 'frozen' (i would expect it would take some weeks after my Embassy had been notified and the Death Certificate cited).

Can anyone clarify please?

AFAIK probate for a Thai will is about 6 months.

[treetops]

4 hours ago, Lacessit said:

AFAIK probate for a Thai will is about 6 months.

 

That would be when it was "unfrozen".  The poster is asking when it would be "frozen", probably hoping his/her partner has time to empty it first.

[Lacessit]

10 minutes ago, treetops said:

 

That would be when it was "unfrozen".  The poster is asking when it would be "frozen", probably hoping his/her partner has time to empty it first.

I don't understand how any bank can freeze a joint account, if the survivor is the executor as well.

In any case, the bank would not be capable of freezing an account until it is informed one of the account holders is dead.

[Yellowtail]

2 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

I don't understand how any bank can freeze a joint account, if the survivor is the executor as well.

In any case, the bank would not be capable of freezing an account until it is informed one of the account holders is dead.

Yes, and tandor was wondering how long that might take. 

[treetops]

16 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

I don't understand how any bank can freeze a joint account, if the survivor is the executor as well.

 

It's the law.  They must wait on probate judgement from the courts AIUI.

 

 

17 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

In any case, the bank would not be capable of freezing an account until it is informed one of the account holders is dead.

 

That's what tandor is asking about.

[billd766]

16 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

Is the bummer about the joint accounts that you do not get online access? I know we don't at BKK and Krunsri. 

We do at KBank in the village.

 

However I am sure that it is a joint account and not an either/or account.

 

I will have to talk to the branch ladies and to the call centre to confirm that and make sure that it becomes an either/or account.

 

I wonder if we can keep the same account number, or whether it would have to be closed and a new account opened?

[tandor]

9 hours ago, Lacessit said:

AFAIK probate for a Thai will is about 6 months.

Thnx. I had previously told my partner to get down to that ATM ASAP, fight through the tears as you punch in the 6 digit code and draw it down as much as you can, as soon as you can.

[Mike Lister]

3 hours ago, billd766 said:

We do at KBank in the village.

 

However I am sure that it is a joint account and not an either/or account.

 

I will have to talk to the branch ladies and to the call centre to confirm that and make sure that it becomes an either/or account.

 

I wonder if we can keep the same account number, or whether it would have to be closed and a new account opened?

It will most likely be a new account.

[billd766]

35 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

It will most likely be a new account.

Thank you for that information.

 

My wife has a selectively deaf ear when it comes to things like pensions, RD tax and stuff like that. I am not even sure if she knows what to do or who to contact when I die.

 

All the information is on the opening screen of my pc with no password.

 

I have taught her how to transfer money from Wise to BKK bank and from BKK bank to the joint account and she has even done it, but when I turn my toes up it will be her problem, as I won't be here to do it for her.