Donald and the US expats.

[johnnybangkok]

13 minutes ago, sirineou said:

 

Expand NATO eastward. and into Ukraine,  where the US was told by many such as Ambassador to Russia and now director of CIA Burns, Secretary of state Gates, Angela merkel, Nicolas Sarkozy to mention a few, that Russia would never allow a Ukraine into NATO and would attack.

So what are the Options for the US?

force Russia to attack  and if Ukraine wins, Russia is removed from the board of peer competitors  and we have only a bipolar world between China and the US, or  even if Russia was successful in preventing an induction of a intact Ukraine  it would find itself degraded from the war, and engaged in a protracted  cold war. 

Ukraine was bait that russia had IMO no choice but to take. 

 

A well written thought but you miss one very important point; Putin did have a choice and could have just let the Ukraine join NATO as neither Europe nor The US is at all interested in “invading” Russia. He could have drawn Europe (one of his major customers) closer but his Napoleon complex got the better of him and he reverted to type. 
The Cold War was over a long time ago and there was genuine hope that “them V us” was over but being essentially a Mafia don, this didn’t suit Putins ego and he wanted all his territories back. 
He had a choice. He just chose this option so it’s rather disingenuous to blame the West. 

[sirineou]

6 minutes ago, johnnybangkok said:

Putin did have a choice and could have just let the Ukraine join NATO as neither Europe nor The US is at all interested in “invading” Russia.

No he did not. 

First we need to examine what makes Ukraine so important. 

With a neutral Ukraine invasion would only  from the Northern European plain that forms a funnel  at the Suwałki Gap between poland and Lithuania a width of 65 Km  leading to achock point  between Russian controlled Kaliningrad and pro Russian Belarus. A defendable one front situation. 

Opening up Ukraine  would create a second huge and difficult to defend front.

  You are right to say that NATO would not invade Russia, but one does not need to invade to get concessions. The threat of invasion can be a motivating factor,

The US would not allow it on its  border,  Russia would not, or no country that had a viable option would. 

 

[johnnybangkok]

37 minutes ago, sirineou said:

No he did not. 

First we need to examine what makes Ukraine so important. 

With a neutral Ukraine invasion would only  from the Northern European plain that forms a funnel  at the Suwałki Gap between poland and Lithuania a width of 65 Km  leading to achock point  between Russian controlled Kaliningrad and pro Russian Belarus. A defendable one front situation. 

Opening up Ukraine  would create a second huge and difficult to defend front.

  You are right to say that NATO would not invade Russia, but one does not need to invade to get concessions. The threat of invasion can be a motivating factor,

The US would not allow it on its  border,  Russia would not, or no country that had a viable option would. 

 

I think you're missing the point.

 

Many countries have borders with other countries and don't see the need to have a buffer zone. There has been no indication from Europe, the US or any NATO country that they would want anything more than to have Russia as a closer ally and certainly no indication of any hostilities. It's all just Putins' paranoia and his desire to be seen as Russia's hard-man, resurrecting Russia's former glory as a significant world power. Coincidentally (not), this also plays very well with a large majority of Russians still smarting from the fact that (let's admit it), communism wasn't the way to go. Crucially, these are the votes he needs to keep his mafia state going.

 

He could simply have said 'fine', let Ukraine do what it wishes - we won't attack and neither will they. NATO hasn't done anything aggressive to Russian for nigh on 60 years and has NEVER indicated any other desire other than closer collaboration. This doesn't seem to be a consideration at all.

 

This idea that there is still a threat is entirely in his own head and you are just a Putin apologist if you think otherwise.   

[Lacessit]

4 hours ago, pomchop said:

imagine living anywhere and trying to defend trump

If you listen to his dumbest followers, their responses can become comedy gold.

[GypsyT]

8 minutes ago, johnnybangkok said:

NATO hasn't done anything aggressive to Russian for nigh on 60 years and has NEVER indicated any other desire other than closer collaboration. This doesn't seem to be a consideration at all.

 

This idea that there is still a threat is entirely in his own head and you are just a Putin apologist if you think otherwise. 

Not quite true;

https://abc7news.com/archive/6331218/

 

I remember that time and it was controversial and I see why Putin felt Russia being attacked.

I don't say US and NATO did wrong but it wasn't handled skillfully.

 

The whole Ukraine thing sucks. Never before we Europeans had as good relationship with Russia and now that's gone for ever. Many Americans went to visit Russia too.

I love to visit museums. I had planned to get a visa and go to St Petersburg to see art collections which are one

of the best.

 

[uttradit]

If Trump/Biden didn't exist what would you guys talk about?

[sirineou]

35 minutes ago, johnnybangkok said:

nd you are just a Putin apologist if you think otherwise.   

And that's my friend is where this conversation ends. 

Thank you for talking with me. 

[Jingthing]

13 minutes ago, GypsyT said:

Not quite true;

https://abc7news.com/archive/6331218/

 

I remember that time and it was controversial and I see why Putin felt Russia being attacked.

I don't say US and NATO did wrong but it wasn't handled skillfully.

 

The whole Ukraine thing sucks. Never before we Europeans had as good relationship with Russia and now that's gone for ever. Many Americans went to visit Russia too.

I love to visit museums. I had planned to get a visa and go to St Petersburg to see art collections which are one

of the best.

 

You can still go there to visit museums.

Many Americans moving there now are Z type fascists attracted to the "traditional values" and persecution of LGBT in Russia though. They are used as propaganda tools for the regime.

[johnnybangkok]

17 minutes ago, uttradit said:

If Trump/Biden didn't exist what would you guys talk about?

Your inane comments?

[uttradit]

Just now, johnnybangkok said:

Your inane comments?

Mirror on the wall

[johnnybangkok]

11 minutes ago, sirineou said:

And that's my friend is where this conversation ends. 

Thank you for talking with me. 

No need to throw your toys out of the pram - it's a debate - debate back.

 

I understand your point, I really do and perhaps if I was in Putins shoes I would think the same but I also think he had many an opportunity to develop closer relationships with Europe and NATO but was waiting for Europe and NATO to make the first move. They didn't (a mistake in my books) and he went in another direction. There are plenty of people who will swear he wanted to be closer to Europe and even join NATO but as usual, different governments in Western countries also had their own agenda and because governments change so often in Western countries and don't in Russia, the messaging was confusing and contradictory. However it wasn't helped by his actions in Georgia, Chechnya, Crimea, supporting Bashar al-Assad in Syria and cosying up to Iran.

 

I will withdraw the 'Putin apologist' as an unnecessarily provocative statement but can you also see that there were options available that didn't require a 'fortress Russia' mentality?      

[GypsyT]

41 minutes ago, uttradit said:

If Trump/Biden didn't exist what would you guys talk about?

Puzzy....

 

"If you give kids a knife and piece of wood they shave and shave till they end having a toothpick"

"If you give men an item to talk they talk and talk until they end talking about puzzy..."

 

[jaywalker2]

The first term didn't impact me, no reason his second term should either. I detest him but I detested Reagan as well, who launched the US on the road to ruin. Their popularity is literally unfathomable to me.

 

On the other hand, looks like I won't be able to go back to the US any time soon. If we're going to suffer through another Trump term, I wish he'd do something productive for expats like get rid of FACTA and suspend income tax for Americans who don't live in the US. Fat chance of that happening.

[tjintx]

On 2/12/2024 at 7:42 AM, OneMoreFarang said:

Obviously, people laugh even more about Americans. 

Voting for him once was a mistake. But who would vote for such a guy another time? Only Americans would do that. 

And your folks recycle David Cameron, jeez.

[Prubangboy]

42 minutes ago, jaywalker2 said:

term, I wish he'd do something productive for expats like suspend income tax for Americans who don't live in the US.

 

Our dear leader weighs in:

 

"An expat -a bigly expat, the biggliest expat in expat-dom, really- asked me, asked me, 'Sir, what if I need the Marines to come and save me from being sodomized by Somalian pirates, Sir, what if?"

 

"I'd ask him: Are you paid up in full on your income tax? -They're laughing at us, the Somalian pirates: I'd like to wipe that Somalian grin off of their too-tan faces- BUT, are you, are you in possession of a PAID stamp in your passport?".

 

"Because if you're not, I want to send those Somalian Pirates vats of KY Jelly and urge them to go to town on you, you know, you know, like line up, tag team-style. You know, do whatever the hell they want".

[OneMoreFarang]

10 hours ago, tjintx said:

And your folks recycle David Cameron, jeez.

a) I am not from the UK

b) Do you really want to argue that if one country has a bad politicians you also want one in your country? 

[Skipalongcassidy]

On 2/12/2024 at 7:53 AM, KhunLA said:

USD would be weaker, and COLA would be less  ... NO THANKS

 

 

You do realize that COLA goes up with inflation and not as fast because the real life living expenses such as food, housing, and energy are left out of the equation.

[KhunLA]

17 minutes ago, Skipalongcassidy said:

You do realize that COLA goes up with inflation and not as fast because the real life living expenses such as food, housing, and energy are left out of the equation.

Yes, COLA is BS, but good if needing some type of reference, how the administration affect everyday living for the working stiff.   In the USA anyway, not so much here if one is retired, or even married, as 800k or 400k to live here/TH, is easy enough, if not having health issues and you know how to say 'NO'.

 

The economy is what's on most people's mind.  Is the administration's policies "making things worse or better for me.'   That's all people really care about ... folks tire of being 'working class heroes'

 

[Skipalongcassidy]

7 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Yes, COLA is BS, but good if needing some type of reference, how the administration affect everyday living for the working stiff.   

Yes it is a good reference... but you got it backwards... when COLA goes up it is because the economy is failing the everyday working stiff... right now the only Americans doing well are upper middle class investors and the wealthy while the middle and poorer classes are paying a premium on everyday living.

[KhunLA]

15 minutes ago, Skipalongcassidy said:

Yes it is a good reference... but you got it backwards... when COLA goes up it is because the economy is failing the everyday working stiff... right now the only Americans doing well are upper middle class investors and the wealthy while the middle and poorer classes are paying a premium on everyday living.

Yep ... why I'm glad I'm here, and hope the Dems win 2024 

 

Do you really think I care what goes on 14,000 kms away ...

 ... ME ME ME  

 

You elect idiots, you get failed policies ... Som nam na

[sirineou]

10 hours ago, johnnybangkok said:

No need to throw your toys out of the pram - it's a debate - debate back.

I refuse to debate when the conversation turns personal. Dismissing someone as a apolologist is not conducive to having a constructive conversation. especially when I could express the same opinion  of you.

It is a double edged sword that accomplishes nothing other than an attempt to marginalize and dismish each other. .  I appreciate  your withdrawal of the "apologist" statement.  It is not often to see people in this forum being Civil  and reasonable. 

10 hours ago, johnnybangkok said:

but I also think he had many an opportunity to develop closer relationships with Europe and NATO but was waiting for Europe and NATO to make the first move.

Notice, I don't offer opinion , I simply quote what was said and offer links to support such quote. 

Would I like for things to be different, Of course I do. I like to think that I am a pacifist. What is happening in the UKraine makes me sick to my stomach. 

 

No doubt , missed opportunities have been the defining factor in this tragedy. 

In 1991,  Russian president Boris Yeltsin sent a letter to NATO, suggesting that Russia's long-term aim was to join NATO.Russia joined the Partnership for Peace programme 1994 and deployed peacekeepers the Balkans  in support of NATO,

 

"George Robertson, a former Labour defence secretary who led Nato between 1999 and 2003, said Putin made it clear at their first meeting that he wanted Russia to be part of western Europe. “They wanted to be part of that secure, stable prosperous west that Russia was out of at the time,” 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/04/ex-nato-head-says-putin-wanted-to-join-alliance-early-on-in-his-rule

 

"Once Russia can show it is upholding democracy and human rights, NATO can seriously consider its membership,”says Rasmussen, the former Danish Prime Minister who served as NATO Secretary General from 2009 to 2014. "

https://time.com/5564207/russia-nato-relationship/

 

This is opinion, 

But IMO , induction of Russia in NATO would had made Russia Stronger , not weaker, and the US did not./does not want a stronger Russia because it would be able to challenge US superiority  in Europe.  In addition any NATO country has the right to vote against the induction of new members, and If Russia was allowed to join NATO, there were justified fears that Russia would veto the membership  of new countries into NATO , just like Turkey was just doing with Sweden and Finland to extract concessions for its vote. And it did. . 

 

In 2008  at the Budapest summit , after Russian NATO membership was blocked, under the insistence of the US and the protest of Germany and France, Ukraine and Georgia were   invited to join NATO 

2014, the democratically pro Russian goverment in Ukraine was overthrown . Guess who was VP  and in charge of the Ukraine dossier?

If you were Russia , what conclusion would you infer  from these events?

 

Now,

Were there other options, of course there were. there always are, but were there any other good options for Russia , I don't think so. If you can think of any , as Ross Perot said in his famous debate line  " I am all ears. "

Remember , in a world where there is no higher Authority to act as a mediator then the nation state. 

(Please don't say UN, it has  value, but no teeth) 

 Being subservient, week,  and vulnerable is never a good option for any  country. Never was, and the way the UN is structured (Veto power for the five ), never will be. 

 

Anyway, I appreciate the conversation we had  . 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[frank83628]

On 2/13/2024 at 9:03 AM, Eric Loh said:

If Trump elected, it will shatter the claim that US is the beacon of democracy and not to be trusted in all foreign policies and will not come to the aid of the free world if attacked

haha, the 'free world' 

 

[jaywalker2]

11 hours ago, Prubangboy said:

 

Our dear leader weighs in:

 

"An expat -a bigly expat, the biggliest expat in expat-dom, really- asked me, asked me, 'Sir, what if I need the Marines to come and save me from being sodomized by Somalian pirates, Sir, what if?"

 

"I'd ask him: Are you paid up in full on your income tax? -They're laughing at us, the Somalian pirates: I'd like to wipe that Somalian grin off of their too-tan faces- BUT, are you, are you in possession of a PAID stamp in your passport?".

 

"Because if you're not, I want to send those Somalian Pirates vats of KY Jelly and urge them to go to town on you, you know, you know, like line up, tag team-style. You know, do whatever the hell they want".

Like they're going to send in the Marines if you're kidnapped. You won't even make the news. The embassy won't even give you a free ride home if you need it despite all the money you've paid in income tax.

[Prubangboy]

I was gently kidding your blind hope that the US government would ever willingly forgo the pittance of revenue derived from expat retirees.

[frank83628]

if only Biden got the same scrutiny as Trumpo did by the media the dude would be have been removed by now!!
Hunters Laptop would have seen to that had the media done their job, in fact if it weren't for  FB twitter etc burying the story and it being labelled as Russian disinformation i might have be different at the polling stations.....even with factoring in the Dems cheating! 🙂

 

[pomchop]

25 minutes ago, frank83628 said:

if only Biden got the same scrutiny as Trumpo did by the media the dude would be have been removed by now!!
Hunters Laptop would have seen to that had the media done their job, in fact if it weren't for  FB twitter etc burying the story and it being labelled as Russian disinformation i might have be different at the polling stations.....even with factoring in the Dems cheating! 🙂

 

Commit an insurrection, get convicted of sexual assault, attack judges and lie about almost everything while being unable to string together 2 sentences, add in alleged  91 felonies , suck $$ out of brain dead magas while bragging about how very very rich you are over and over, and you will get a lot of media coverage.  But but but...what about hunters laptop...and kushners billions from the Saudis?  Those damn cheating dems....right.

[johnnybangkok]

1 hour ago, sirineou said:

I refuse to debate when the conversation turns personal. Dismissing someone as a apolologist is not conducive to having a constructive conversation. especially when I could express the same opinion  of you.

It is a double edged sword that accomplishes nothing other than an attempt to marginalize and dismish each other. .  I appreciate  your withdrawal of the "apologist" statement.  It is not often to see people in this forum being Civil  and reasonable. 

Notice, I don't offer opinion , I simply quote what was said and offer links to support such quote. 

Would I like for things to be different, Of course I do. I like to think that I am a pacifist. What is happening in the UKraine makes me sick to my stomach. 

 

No doubt , missed opportunities have been the defining factor in this tragedy. 

In 1991,  Russian president Boris Yeltsin sent a letter to NATO, suggesting that Russia's long-term aim was to join NATO.Russia joined the Partnership for Peace programme 1994 and deployed peacekeepers the Balkans  in support of NATO,

 

"George Robertson, a former Labour defence secretary who led Nato between 1999 and 2003, said Putin made it clear at their first meeting that he wanted Russia to be part of western Europe. “They wanted to be part of that secure, stable prosperous west that Russia was out of at the time,” 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/04/ex-nato-head-says-putin-wanted-to-join-alliance-early-on-in-his-rule

 

"Once Russia can show it is upholding democracy and human rights, NATO can seriously consider its membership,”says Rasmussen, the former Danish Prime Minister who served as NATO Secretary General from 2009 to 2014. "

https://time.com/5564207/russia-nato-relationship/

 

This is opinion, 

But IMO , induction of Russia in NATO would had made Russia Stronger , not weaker, and the US did not./does not want a stronger Russia because it would be able to challenge US superiority  in Europe.  In addition any NATO country has the right to vote against the induction of new members, and If Russia was allowed to join NATO, there were justified fears that Russia would veto the membership  of new countries into NATO , just like Turkey was just doing with Sweden and Finland to extract concessions for its vote. And it did. . 

 

In 2008  at the Budapest summit , after Russian NATO membership was blocked, under the insistence of the US and the protest of Germany and France, Ukraine and Georgia were   invited to join NATO 

2014, the democratically pro Russian goverment in Ukraine was overthrown . Guess who was VP  and in charge of the Ukraine dossier?

If you were Russia , what conclusion would you infer  from these events?

 

Now,

Were there other options, of course there were. there always are, but were there any other good options for Russia , I don't think so. If you can think of any , as Ross Perot said in his famous debate line  " I am all ears. "

Remember , in a world where there is no higher Authority to act as a mediator then the nation state. 

(Please don't say UN, it has  value, but no teeth) 

 Being subservient, week,  and vulnerable is never a good option for any  country. Never was, and the way the UN is structured (Veto power for the five ), never will be. 

 

Anyway, I appreciate the conversation we had  . 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You make some good points and I think we both agree there were plenty of 'missed opportunities' to bring Russia into the fold but everything is easier with the benefit of hindsight and Russia today has gone down a path that allows very little reconciliation or a viable path back from where it finds itself.

Worrying times ahead and I just can't imagine Trump as POTUS is going to make anything easier with his 'let's do a deal' mentality. Last time he had a chance to reprimand Russia he chose to tell G7 leaders that 'Crimea is Russian because everyone who lives there speaks Russian'. This is the simplicity of thinking that comes from this man. 

[frank83628]

5 minutes ago, pomchop said:

Commit an insurrection, get convicted of sexual assault, attack judges and lie about almost everything while being unable to string together 2 sentences, add in alleged  91 felonies , suck $$ out of brain dead magas while bragging about how very very rich you are over and over, and you will get a lot of media coverage.  But but but...what about hunters laptop...and kushners billions from the Saudis?  Those damn cheating dems....right.

yeah, proving my point perfectly, all the things listed were front pages non stop through Trumps 4 years....those alleged billions form the saudis....widely publicised wasn't it...Hunter Bidens Laptop and 10% to ' the Big guy' brushed under the carpet....imagine if don Jr,  Kushner or any other member of the Trumps family was on video with hookers and blow....think they'd get a pass....yeah right,  how about joes video bragging about with holding the 6 bil, getting the Ukrainan prosector fired yet they impeach trump over a phone call.   DOUBLE STANDARDS. COM!!!.... the classified documents is a perfect example....  but you guys so full of rage at trump you're blinded to the blatant corruption form your side.
'suck $$ out of brain dead magas'. how about the Billions of tax $$ being funneled into Ukraine and into the pockets of the arm contractors and millions vanishing while US has enough internal issues that could be helped instead. i might add,  war that could have ended back in April 22, which the UK, US and nato continued...... but but Trump!! haha
 

[Dan747]

Great-I post two comments and get "Censored" with removal without any explanation-Thank You!!

[sirineou]

21 minutes ago, johnnybangkok said:

You make some good points and I think we both agree there were plenty of 'missed opportunities' to bring Russia into the fold but everything is easier with the benefit of hindsight and Russia today has gone down a path that allows very little reconciliation or a viable path back from where it finds itself.

Also we don't know all there is to know. Both the US and Russia. have analysts and information not available to us. 

 

23 minutes ago, johnnybangkok said:

Worrying times ahead and I just can't imagine Trump as POTUS is going to make anything easier with his 'let's do a deal' mentality.

 

Trump's policies are laughable to anyone who knows anything about these things.

NATO is a US instrument. it creates a dependency of Europe  . Removing the US from NATO would be  the US shooting itself on the foot. 

Even his rhetoric concerning NATO countries not paying their bills, and owe billions.

Nonsense!!

"

Trump has long claimed that various NATO members have failed to pay their “bills,” “dues” or “NATO fees,” that they “owe us a tremendous amount of money” or that they “owe NATO billions of dollars.”

 

Facts First: All of these Trump claims are false. While a majority of NATO members do not meet the alliance’s target of each member spending a minimum of 2% of gross domestic product on defense, the 2% target is a “guideline” that does not create bills, debts or legal obligations if it is not met. In fact, the guideline doesn’t require payments to NATO or the US at all. Rather, it simply requires each country to spend on their own defense programs." 

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/02/13/politics/fact-check-trump-nato/index.html

  Same as immigration policies as the UK found out with Brexit.  All developed countries have a fertility declining population problem, the US does not. you know why ? legal and illegal immigration.  The US is a popular immigration destination. Illegal aliens are a net positive to the US economy , with the additional benefit of having a higher reproduction rate (2.7  than native American (1.6 the replacement rate is 2.1)  and are offsetting the declining  population problem (illegal alien children born in the US become citizens) . The only reason republicans have a problem is because it changes the demographics in the democrats favor. But if they were not such a-holes they would have better relations with immigrants and also participate in the demographic benefit.  

Trump is a poisonous vessel. Anything he touches turns to sh!t.