Bangkok Airways (our favourite airline? 🤭)

[Tropicalevo]

I have been told that BA is applying to increase the number of flights in per day from the current 50, to 73.

Can anyone confirm this please?

Lately, there have been between 40 and 47 flights per day but this is high season. It is usually in the 30 - 40 flights per day range.

[Georgealbert]

Yes, those numbers were reported in Khaosod on 8 February, but links are not allowed to them.

 

This report gives the background to why the increase is being requested.

 

https://www.ttgasia.com/2024/02/19/arrivals-bounce-a-win-win-for-koh-samui/

 

Report states an extra 73 flights a day, but Khaosod says increased to 73.

 

“The positive bump has also given more weight to a recent proposal to upgrade the island’s airport with new technology that will make the hub more efficient – able to handle an extra 73 flights per day – and more sustainable.”

Edited February 19 by Georgealbert

[khunPer]

1 hour ago, Tropicalevo said:

I have been told that BA is applying to increase the number of flights in per day from the current 50, to 73.

Can anyone confirm this please?

Yes, it's correct, it's been mention in the news.

[PoorSucker]

As night flights have never been a thing on Samui, that would been 6.5 flights per hour.

Ha ha ha.

[Joinaman]

most people i speak to say that the prices charged are a rip off and much cheaper ti fly Surat Thani 

Im flying out in a couple of weeks, will save over 8.000 baht by using Surat thani, 

which is a pity because Samui is a nice airport 

 

[Georgealbert]

6 hours ago, Joinaman said:

most people i speak to say that the prices charged are a rip off and much cheaper ti fly Surat Thani 

Im flying out in a couple of weeks, will save over 8.000 baht by using Surat thani, 

which is a pity because Samui is a nice airport 

 

6 hours ago, Joinaman said:

I believe part of the problem is that one airline holds the monopoly for flights.

 

https://kohplanner.com/koh-samui-prices/#:~:text=The reason behind the higher,beautiful airports in the World.

[Tropicalevo]

2 hours ago, Georgealbert said:

I believe part of the problem is that one airline holds the monopoly for flights.

Not really.

Whilst Bangkok Airways do own the airport, other International airlines have flown here regularly - until Covid. Malaysian Airlines, Silk Air, Nepal Airlines, Firefly, a number of other Chinese Airlines etc etc.

The problem is that the landing fees are high to discourage the cheaper airlines like Nok Air, Air Asia and so on.

Since Covid, the International airlines are using the serviceable planes on more profitable routes.

The current high prices are the old 'supply and demand' algorithm used by airlines for pricing.

The less available seats, the higher the price.

As aside - 28 flights from Bangkok today.

[Ben Zioner]

This settles it, I am not going to go to Samui, Koh Chang, Langkawi, maybe Tioman...

[Georgealbert]

49 minutes ago, Tropicalevo said:

Not really.

Whilst Bangkok Airways do own the airport, other International airlines have flown here regularly - until Covid. Malaysian Airlines, Silk Air, Nepal Airlines, Firefly, a number of other Chinese Airlines etc etc.

The problem is that the landing fees are high to discourage the cheaper airlines like Nok Air, Air Asia and so on.

Since Covid, the International airlines are using the serviceable planes on more profitable routes.

The current high prices are the old 'supply and demand' algorithm used by airlines for pricing.

The less available seats, the higher the price.

As aside - 28 flights from Bangkok today.

Yes we agree, my wording was poor and would have been better to have said monopoly on the airport.

 

Yes I know a few other airlines do fly there, but with their monopoly PG can set high landing fees, hence preventing any real competition, which would help bring prices down.

 

How many times have AOT/ministry of transport proposed a second runway on the island, but nothing seems to happen.

Edited February 23 by Georgealbert

[Tropicalevo]

14 minutes ago, Georgealbert said:

 

How many times have AOT/ministry of transport proposed a second runway on the island, but nothing seems to happen.

I think that the 'second airport' scenario was back in Thaksin's time as PM.

It was a follow on from the  "we want to hold a 'roving' cabinet meeting on Koh Samui." fiasco.

Bangkok Airways asked him how many planes he needed and the reply was 'government policy, we only fly Thai Airways'.

BA are said to have responded with 'Thai Airways will never land on Koh Samui'. Hence the second airport rumour.

Strangely enough, a few months later, the Crown Prince (now HM King Rama X) asked for permission to practice take-offs and landings at the airport. He had recently received his commercial pilots licence.

BA said 'of course'.

He practised them in a Thai Airways plane! (The police stopped all traffic around the airport at the time, and made us all switch our lights off. So as not to distract HM.)

A few months later Thai Airways had regular flights to/from Samui.

They eventually realised that it was cheaper to code share with BA so now, no more Thai Airways flights.

The back story is that a few cabinet members in the day, bought very large plots of land on the island, hoping for the second airport. Most of the plots that I know of are still empty.

[Georgealbert]

29 minutes ago, Tropicalevo said:

I think that the 'second airport' scenario was back in Thaksin's time as PM.

It was a follow on from the  "we want to hold a 'roving' cabinet meeting on Koh Samui." fiasco.

Bangkok Airways asked him how many planes he needed and the reply was 'government policy, we only fly Thai Airways'.

BA are said to have responded with 'Thai Airways will never land on Koh Samui'. Hence the second airport rumour.

Strangely enough, a few months later, the Crown Prince (now HM King Rama X) asked for permission to practice take-offs and landings at the airport. He had recently received his commercial pilots licence.

BA said 'of course'.

He practised them in a Thai Airways plane! (The police stopped all traffic around the airport at the time, and made us all switch our lights off. So as not to distract HM.)

A few months later Thai Airways had regular flights to/from Samui.

They eventually realised that it was cheaper to code share with BA so now, no more Thai Airways flights.

The back story is that a few cabinet members in the day, bought very large plots of land on the island, hoping for the second airport. Most of the plots that I know of are still empty.

The second airport did come up briefly, under the last military government, when the bridge was also proposed.

 

https://thailand-construction.com/build-a-second-airport-for-budget-airlines-is-much-better-than-a-bridge-to-thailands-koh-samui-island/

 

The airport, I believe, had a designated royal terminal at the Chaweng beech end, specifically for the training you mentioned, developed from the old international/domestic terminals.

Edited February 23 by Georgealbert

[Tropicalevo]

Well spotted and thank you. I had not seen that one.

 

Quote

He said that a new, second airport needs to be built for low cost airlines that would cater to budget minded tourists rather than the current arrangement that serves only wealthy tourists.

 

Apart from some biased 'facts' the bigger problem with Dr Ravee Maschamadol's suggestion is that most tourist related businesses and local people that I know, do not want budget travellers.

 

It is currently high season on Samui.

It is reported that hotels are 90% - 100% full and at the highest room rates.

The main roads are gridlocked at times and where I am, rental motorbikes and rental cars are as rare as hen's teeth.

This is a normal high season for Samui. ie pre 2020.

And do not start me on the annual water shortage here on the island.

Do we really need budget travellers? The island is pretty full already.

The big difference was Chinese guests. They do not want to pay high season prices, so they would come in low season. They do not care if it rains as they do not usually sit on beaches. Hotel rates, villa rates and flights are much lower then.

Budget travellers will always come by ferry anyway. (300 baht per passenger)

Before the Chinese discovered Samui, some hotels and other related businesses would close for 2 - 3 months in low season.

[khunPer]

A major difference between Samui Airport and most other airports in Thailand is that it's funded by private money and the users pay for it – i.e. building the airport, maintenance and running service costs – instead of government money.

 

The possibility of establishing another airport on the island is like zero, as there need to be a certain safety distance between two airports. There are some news articles about it, which you can find if you Google for them.

 

Furthermore – my point of view – is that numerous budget tourists, who can still arrive via Surat Thani and using the boats or ferries like in good old time as @Tropicalevo said, might still not choose Samui due to higher accommodation rates that many other parts of the country. So, a second airport and/or budget airfares might not be enough to satisfy the budget tourists' demand. The island is already balancing on the limit of what it's infrastructure can supply. It's unlikely – especially with the present land-prices – that some will invest in numerous low-price budget hotels.

[Georgealbert]

36 minutes ago, khunPer said:

A major difference between Samui Airport and most other airports in Thailand is that it's funded by private money and the users pay for it – i.e. building the airport, maintenance and running service costs – instead of government money.

 

The possibility of establishing another airport on the island is like zero, as there need to be a certain safety distance between two airports. There are some news articles about it, which you can find if you Google for them.

 

Furthermore – my point of view – is that numerous budget tourists, who can still arrive via Surat Thani and using the boats or ferries like in good old time as @Tropicalevo said, might still not choose Samui due to higher accommodation rates that many other parts of the country. So, a second airport and/or budget airfares might not be enough to satisfy the budget tourists' demand. The island is already balancing on the limit of what it's infrastructure can supply. It's unlikely – especially with the present land-prices – that some will invest in numerous low-price budget hotels.

 

36 minutes ago, khunPer said:

Fully agree with your opinions of Koh Samui airport being privately funded and that there seems to be zero chance of a second airport, but I know of no ICOA or FAA regulation that would prevent it.

 

Couple of examples.

 

LaGuardia Airport and JFK Airport are approximately 17.5 Km apart.

The distance between Oakland Airport (OAK) and San Francisco Airport (SFO) is 19 Km.

 

Samui is about 25 Km north to south.

 

 

 

[LukKrueng]

10 hours ago, Georgealbert said:

I believe part of the problem is that one airline holds the monopoly for flights.

 

https://kohplanner.com/koh-samui-prices/#:~:text=The reason behind the higher,beautiful airports in the World.

They actually own the airport and charge hefty landing fees from anyone who wants to fly into Samui.

Many years ago when they had to extend the runway so their jets can land there the government conditioned the approval by them allowing Thai airways to fly to Samui and for a while TG actually had 2 daily flights but prices were higher than Bangkok airways.

To the OP: BA is the signcall for British airways. Bangkok airways is PG

[Georgealbert]

4 minutes ago, LukKrueng said:

They actually own the airport and charge hefty landing fees from anyone who wants to fly into Samui.

Many years ago when they had to extend the runway so their jets can land there the government conditioned the approval by them allowing Thai airways to fly to Samui and for a while TG actually had 2 daily flights but prices were higher than Bangkok airways.

To the OP: BA is the signcall for British airways. Bangkok airways is PG

Yes the airport itself belongs to the airline, but it is then managed by a subsidiary company of Bangkok Airways Public Co Ltd. The airport and airline have different responsibilities at Koh Samui.

 

Many airport functions are also run by subsidiaries.

 

https://investor.bangkokair.com/en/corporate-info/subsidiaries#:~:text=Our Subsidiary and Associated companies&text=BAC Gourmet House Co.%2C Ltd.&text=Bangkok Air Catering Phuket Co.%2C Ltd.&text=Bangkok Air Catering Samui Co.%2C Ltd.&text=Bangkok Air Catering Chiang Mai Co.%2C Ltd.

[Tropicalevo]

10 minutes ago, LukKrueng said:

To the OP: BA is the signcall for British airways. Bangkok airways is PG

I know and thank you for that. But we are discussing the business, not a flight. Bangkok Airways.

[LukKrueng]

5 hours ago, Tropicalevo said:

the Crown Prince (now HM King Rama X) asked for permission to practice take-offs and landings at the airport. He had recently received his commercial pilots licence.

BA said 'of course'.

Strange. HM practiced and got his licence on B747. Those cannot land at Samui airport due to length of the runway... HM used to practice landings at Utapao airport.

 

As for TG flying to Samui, I already mentioned in another reply that this was a condition set by the government in order to approve the extension of the runway to accommodate PG's (not BA) small jets (they started with B717 back then, but the runway could only accommodate their propellor airplanes).

 

As for building a 2nd airport - makes no sense at all. Someone mentioned JFK and EWR and the 2 airports in SFO as an example for nearby airports. While that is true, the actual point is that those airports serve a much bigger area and a much bigger load of passengers whereas Samui airport serves mainly Samui Island and maybe a little bit of Koh Tao and panghgan

[LukKrueng]

9 minutes ago, Georgealbert said:

Yes the airport itself belongs to the airline, but it is then managed by a subsidiary company of Bangkok Airways Public Co Ltd. The airport and airline have different responsibilities at Koh Samui.

 

Many airport functions are also run by subsidiaries.

 

https://investor.bangkokair.com/en/corporate-info/subsidiaries#:~:text=Our Subsidiary and Associated companies&text=BAC Gourmet House Co.%2C Ltd.&text=Bangkok Air Catering Phuket Co.%2C Ltd.&text=Bangkok Air Catering Samui Co.%2C Ltd.&text=Bangkok Air Catering Chiang Mai Co.%2C Ltd.

That doesn't change the fact that they own it and decide how much to charge. I know that over 25 years ago they charged USD400 landing fee for small airplanes (ie Cessna 150\170) while government owned airports (including DMK which at the time was the only airport in Bangkok) charged 400 THB. they own a couple of other airports in Thailand and it's the same story there.

[Tropicalevo]

5 minutes ago, LukKrueng said:

Strange. HM practiced and got his licence on B747. Those cannot land at Samui airport due to length of the runway... HM used to practice landings at Utapao airport.

It definitely was not a 747 that briefly touched down, took off again and circled to repeat the process about two more times (it was a while ago - poor memory). Probably a 737 back then.

Was the crown prince really flying the plane that we saw? Us mortals will never know.

However, it was a Thai Airways plane. I was in the 'blackout' on the road. A minor historic moment here on Samui. People hoped for cheaper flights after that but......the rest is history.

[Georgealbert]

30 minutes ago, LukKrueng said:

Strange. HM practiced and got his licence on B747. Those cannot land at Samui airport due to length of the runway... HM used to practice landings at Utapao airport.

 

As for TG flying to Samui, I already mentioned in another reply that this was a condition set by the government in order to approve the extension of the runway to accommodate PG's (not BA) small jets (they started with B717 back then, but the runway could only accommodate their propellor airplanes).

 

As for building a 2nd airport - makes no sense at all. Someone mentioned JFK and EWR and the 2 airports in SFO as an example for nearby airports. While that is true, the actual point is that those airports serve a much bigger area and a much bigger load of passengers whereas Samui airport serves mainly Samui Island and maybe a little bit of Koh Tao and panghgan

Sorry but the king is/was qualified to fly the F-5, F-16, and the Boeing 737.

 

His currently has a fleet of 4 aircraft that he uses and sometimes flys.

 

 

Edited February 23 by Georgealbert

[Georgealbert]

12 minutes ago, LukKrueng said:

That doesn't change the fact that they own it and decide how much to charge. I know that over 25 years ago they charged USD400 landing fee for small airplanes (ie Cessna 150\170) while government owned airports (including DMK which at the time was the only airport in Bangkok) charged 400 THB. they own a couple of other airports in Thailand and it's the same story there.

Yes fully agree, that is how they try to maintain their airport monopoly, hence high flight costs.

 

The other airports owned are.

 

Sukhothai Airport and Trat Airport.

 

Prasert Prasarttong-Osoth  CEO and President of Bangkok Airways is also the founder and owner of Bangkok Dusit Medical Services.

 

 

Edited February 23 by Georgealbert

[Woof999]

50 minutes ago, LukKrueng said:

BA is the signcall for British airways. Bangkok airways is PG

 

Thank you for the PG Tips.

[khunPer]

5 hours ago, LukKrueng said:

Strange. HM practiced and got his licence on B747. Those cannot land at Samui airport due to length of the runway... HM used to practice landings at Utapao airport.

 

As for TG flying to Samui, I already mentioned in another reply that this was a condition set by the government in order to approve the extension of the runway to accommodate PG's (not BA) small jets (they started with B717 back then, but the runway could only accommodate their propellor airplanes).

 

As for building a 2nd airport - makes no sense at all. Someone mentioned JFK and EWR and the 2 airports in SFO as an example for nearby airports. While that is true, the actual point is that those airports serve a much bigger area and a much bigger load of passengers whereas Samui airport serves mainly Samui Island and maybe a little bit of Koh Tao and panghgan

Well, His Majesty is flying B737 – which can land on Samui Airpoort  – and he was captain on a commercial THAI-promotion B737 flight when he met Her Majesty queen Suthida of Thailand, who was a cabin attendant on that flight. He got a B737 with same registration placed in his private park in Bangkok, the former Dusit Zoo. He also owns private B737s that he has been flying in Germany and around in Europe, probably with a valid license.

 

Based on these facts, it's quite likely that HM Vajiralongkorn is licensed to fly a B737, and that he did flew one of those to Samui. As crown prince HM was often guest on the island and arrived in a B737, which was parked at the airport during his visits.

 

The airport could accommodate B717-200s and Bangkok Airways did use them on their Samui route. Bangkok Airways operated B717 from 2000 to 2009 and I've personally flown in them to Samui back in 2001. The B717 was based on DC9. The manufacturer, McDonnell Douglas, merged with Boeing and the DC9 was renamed, since number 717 was never used. B717 has a take off run of 1, 905 meters and landing 1,402 meters respectively. The runway on Samui was by that time expanded to 2,100 meters. The ATR72 could operate on a shorter runway of 1,400 meters, while the airfield was originally built for Dash-8-200 aircrafts that only needed 1,200 meters. I think to remember, that the original runway was 1,500 or 1,600 meters. A B737-200 has a take off run on 1,859 meters and a B737-700 of 1,878 meters. Some B737 variants have take off run around 2,300 meters. When not fully loaded to max take off weight, an aircraft's take off run can be shorter. When THAI was flying themselves to USM they used B737s.

 

The distance to the once suggested second airport in the southern part of the island is only 14 kilometers from USM, which might cause safety problems.

[phetphet]

On 2/20/2024 at 10:25 PM, PoorSucker said:

As night flights have never been a thing on Samui, that would been 6.5 flights per hour.

Ha ha ha.

I think they raised the late flight curfew time a couple of years ago from 21:00 to 22:30. I suppose they will want to raise it again to fit in more flights. Not good for those living near the airport, or under the flight path.

 

Still…Money talks.

[khunPer]

42 minutes ago, phetphet said:

I think they raised the late flight curfew time a couple of years ago from 21:00 to 22:30. I suppose they will want to raise it again to fit in more flights. Not good for those living near the airport, or under the flight path.

 

Still…Money talks.

It's been 22:00 for the last 20+ years; i.e., airport closed between 22:00 and 06:00. However, delayed flights are permitted. During the 2004 tsunami chaos, night flights were permitted, as tourists could not enter Phuket.