Sharp increase in anti-Muslim hatred in UK, particularly against women

[JonnyF]

19 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

They did vote for the white person but the white person was useless. Only when the true extent of her uselessness became clear did they vote for the brown person, and only because there was no other option. 

 

Unfortunately the "brown person" is useless as well, although the fact that he has not been removed does disprove your theory.

 

The fact remains that the Tories have had a female PM and an ethnic minority PM. If only Labour could make such progressive claims. Unfortunately they are all mouth and no trousers on this, and so many other issues. 

 

As for the claims of anti-muslim hatred, this appears to be a very obvious attempt to divert attention away from the rampant anti-semitism in the Labour party, the left in general and the Pro Palestine mob. 

[RuamRudy]

8 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

 

Unfortunately the "brown person" is useless as well, although the fact that he has not been removed does disprove your theory.

 

The fact remains that the Tories have had a female PM and an ethnic minority PM. If only Labour could make such progressive claims. Unfortunately they are all mouth and no trousers on this, and so many other issues. 

 

As for the claims of anti-muslim hatred, this appears to be a very obvious attempt to divert attention away from the rampant anti-semitism in the Labour party, the left in general and the Pro Palestine mob. 

 

What possible motive would Baroness Warsi have, for her to try to divert attention away from the Labour party's troubles? I am genuinely intrigued.

[JonnyF]

9 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

 

What possible motive would Baroness Warsi have, for her to try to divert attention away from the Labour party's troubles? I am genuinely intrigued.

 

I was referring to the organization in the OP, Tell Mama. Nothing to do with Warsi. You were the one that introduced her to the thread. 

 

But since you asked, Warsi's motive for her remark was clearly taking offense to Johnson's joke about the Hijab. 

[nauseus]

On 3/4/2024 at 1:03 PM, Chomper Higgot said:

Hardly a surprise to anyone reading this sub forum, given the disproportionate number of Islamophobic posts coming from Brits.

 

 

 

Well the story does concern the UK after all. Anti-Muslim sentiment in the UK should not be a surprise, especially when stories like this keep emerging:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13153709/Black-Lives-Matter-protester-grooming-gang-passed-schoolgirl-13-like-toy-rape-abuse-ordeal-nine-months-jailed.html

 

Some of them got away with it in 2016 so I suppose they thought it was OK to try again? Sound fair?

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-tyne-37647914

 

Pieces OS.

 

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, nauseus said:

 

Well the story does concern the UK after all. Anti-Muslim sentiment in the UK should not be a surprise, especially when stories like this keep emerging:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13153709/Black-Lives-Matter-protester-grooming-gang-passed-schoolgirl-13-like-toy-rape-abuse-ordeal-nine-months-jailed.html

 

Some of them got away with it in 2016 so I suppose they thought it was OK to try again? Sound fair?

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-tyne-37647914

 

Pieces OS.

 

 

If it wasn't off topic I could show you a story about white supremacists grooming teenagers for hate crimes.

 

All extremists who groom kids are POS.

[nauseus]

1 minute ago, ozimoron said:

 

If it wasn't off topic I could show you a story about white supremacists grooming teenagers for hate crimes.

 

All extremists who groom kids are POS.

Just one story? Not in the same league then.

[Chomper Higgot]

5 minutes ago, nauseus said:

 

Well the story does concern the UK after all. Anti-Muslim sentiment in the UK should not be a surprise, especially when stories like this keep emerging:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13153709/Black-Lives-Matter-protester-grooming-gang-passed-schoolgirl-13-like-toy-rape-abuse-ordeal-nine-months-jailed.html

 

Some of them got away with it in 2016 so I suppose they thought it was OK to try again? Sound fair?

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-tyne-37647914

 

Pieces OS.

 

So the two perverts who have just been convicted and sentenced got away with committing these crimes in 2016 and therefore thought they’d continue their heinous crimes in 2023?

Is that what you are asserting?

 

[ozimoron]

5 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Just one story? Not in the same league then.

 

I'll match your two muslims and up you two christians.

[nauseus]

4 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

So the two perverts who have just been convicted and sentenced got away with committing these crimes in 2016 and therefore thought they’d continue their heinous crimes in 2023?

Is that what you are asserting?

 

 

Similar crimes. Different verdict. I was questioning that possibility, yes. 

[nauseus]

7 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

I'll match your two muslims and up you two christians.

 

I'd bet that the poor rape victim would not be amused at that comment.

 

But now that you're off topic anyway, why not share this white supremacist grooming story?

Edited March 6 by nauseus
+ line 2

[Wobblybob]

36 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

If it wasn't off topic I could show you a story about white supremacists grooming teenagers for hate crimes.

 

All extremists who groom kids are POS.

So the solution is to import more into the country without any means of identification, Jesus wept.🥴

[Nick Carter icp]

2 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

 

This thread is not about anti-Semitism so labour is irrelevant. 

Baroness Warsi is, however, a Tory peer, a former co-chairwoman of the party who has served as a minister of state. But you know better than her.

 

If you can hear laughter at the moment, it is possible that you are hearing me laughing at you and your desperate attempt at trying to explain to a Muslim victim of racism that what she experienced isn't racism. 

 

   You and Warsi both think that saying Burka wearing Muslim females look like bank robbers is racist and Islamophobic , I just think that its locker room talk and just a bit rude . 

   Although it is just Warsis opinion , but your claim that the Conservatives have been found to be Islamophobic is a false claim , because even if the comments were indeed Islamophobic, that would make the whole Conservative party Islamophobic , because they would be labelling Warsi as being Islamophobic , because she is a member of the Conservatives 

[Nick Carter icp]

3 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

 

What possible motive would Baroness Warsi have, for her to try to divert attention away from the Labour party's troubles? I am genuinely intrigued.

 

  

Warsi made her comments three years ago , Labour supporters keep bring it up and making false claims that the Conservatives have been found to be Islamophobic , quite often the subject is bought up again just after yet another Labour M.P had made an anti Semitic comment 

[JemJem]

Yes but what about, for example, anti-LGBT stuff in Muslim majority countries? Write about that, too, man. I am from Turkey. The anti LGBT attitudes have reached new highs under the Islamic dictator Erdoğan. I am so sick and tired of Muslims playing the victim card. Why the heck am I living out of my country?!?! 

[Yellowtail]

23 hours ago, RayC said:

The subject matter might well be subjective but the methodology could, and should, be objective.

From your mouth to God's ear. 

 

The methodology is generally objective, what's subjective, and generally biased (intentionally) or otherwise, are the definitions and questions. 

 

If I'm doing a study to determine if there is racism, how is that not going be largely subjective? 

 

When you ask a minority person if racism is increasing, they may say yes or no, solely based on what they read or hear in the media. Assuming you want to find the truth, this type of study is useless. Of course, if you are a media company that is in the business of promoting racial animosity, it is quite valuable. You can check your effectiveness, and even site the results to show that racism actually is on the rise and use that to further increase racial animosity. This is the most common type of study one would see in the media. A study designed to drive a narrative. 

If you ask the same person if they experience racism regularly in their own life, again, they may say yes or no depending on what they consider racism, and while one person might be constantly offended, another with the same experiences might be unbothered. This type of study is a little better, but it is still purely subjective. This is the type of study one would do if they wanted to know how people felt personally, and without much concern about what is true. 

If you ask the same person to provide a lot of personal information and have them complete a survey with a long list of very specific, well defined racist interactions and events, and have them rate each one with severity and frequency, then you start to get somewhat truthful results. Almost no one does this. 

Studies are not free. People fund them, and if the public is going to see the results, the study has to show what the people paying for the study want the public to see. 

If a company does a study to determine exactly what their customer base does and does not like about their product/candidate, it will be a well-designed study that is only looking for the truth, and the study will not be made public. If the same company does a study that they plan to use to show how much better their product/candidate is than their competitor’s, they have no real interest in the truth, they only want to show that their product/better is better, and this study will be made public. 
 

23 hours ago, RayC said:

You're right. I would suggest that anti-Israeli, rather than anti-Semitic, sentiment has increased in the UK. 

 

 

I would think that their position(s) have hardened.

A bit perhaps, but most have hated Israel all along. 

23 hours ago, RayC said:

Where the US goes, the UK follows. Some would argue the centre has already disappeared from UK politics.

 

23 hours ago, RayC said:

 

 

We are straying from the topic nevertheless .....

 

You are missing the point. My point is that equality of opportunity is missing.

 

I think that it uncontentious to say that not all universities are equal? In England (I will exclude the rest of the UK as the education systems are different), Oxford and Cambridge (Oxbridge) are generally accepted as being the two best universities. In order to be accepted into Oxbridge a student needs, as a bare minimum, at least 3 'A' grades at GCSE 'A' level (the public examination sat by 17/18 year old students in the UK). In addition, most applicants for Oxbridge have to sit a separate entrance examination set by the Oxbridge colleges and attend an interview: The working class student is at a disadvantage from the outset.  S/he is unlikely to have attended one of the fee-paying public (private) schools. These schools have much better facilities and environments for learning than their state counterparts. In addition, they are geared towards sending their students to Oxbridge and, more often than not, offer coaching for the Oxbridge entrance exams and interviews. Unlike the majority of their counterparts in the state sector, the teachers at these schools are almost inevitably graduates of Oxbridge and ex-public schoolboys themselves, have an intimate knowledge and quite often connections within and to the Oxbridge colleges. Except for very rare instances, these options are simply not available for state school pupils. The odds are stacked against them from the outset. Therefore, whilst the content of the public examinations - and to a lesser extent, the Oxbridge entrance exams -  may be unbiased, etc the preparation for them certainly isn't. It's akin to letting some runners in a 100m race start 2 secs before the rest. Sometimes one of the late starters will win the race; the vast majority of the time they won't.

 

I'm afraid that my ignorance of the US education system is almost total. However, whilst the SAT tests themselves may well be free of bias with all students have equality of opportunity, can the same thing be said of the system which prepares students for these tests?

The wealthy will always have an advantage over the poor. Tall men and attractive women earn more on average than do short men and unattractive women.  If your father is a director and your mother is a movie star, the odds of having a shot at stardom are exponentially greater than if your father left when your drug addict mother got pregnant.

 

In the US if you go to decent K-12 schools, have involved parents, and work hard, you have a good chance of getting into a good university. If you go to a sub-standard school, and your parent/parents are not involved and you don’t work very hard, you have little chance of getting into a good university. 

One problem in the US now is that universities lower standards to get kids enrolled that are coming out of sub-standard schools, and that are often not up to the academic standards that are required to pass, much less excel in the discipline of their choice, so they end up changing majors or dropping out. A bigger problem is that the curriculum gets watered down, and grades are inflated. Many of the people being "helped", graduate with large debt, and an often-useless degree. A black kid that graduates an inner-city high school with a 4.0 gets admitted into engineering at MIT flunks out after two semesters, and ends up taking ethnic studies. The same kid could have gone to most any state school and gotten (got?) the engineering degree the wanted with a fraction of the debt. 

It’s ridiculous. If you want more blacks studying engineering at MIT, the focus should be on improving the sub-standard schools, not on lowering the standards of great universities.  
 

23 hours ago, RayC said:

Imo that is far too narrow an explanation of what constitutes culture. Religion doesn't completely define society's culture but I would argue that the norms, symbolism, art, etc associated with religion form an intrinsic part of the overwhelming majority of culture(s) around the world. 

 

As I inferred previously, I wouldn't even know where to start defining the set of criterion - let alone how to measure - the superiority of one culture vis-a-vis another.

How about rule-of-law, property-rights and equality under the law to start with? 

23 hours ago, RayC said:

In the unlikely event that you find yourself standing on a patch of grass - which might not be in the best of condition - armed only with a helmet, some padding and a willow bat, about to face someone who is about to bowl a leather encased sphere with a pronounced seam - possibly deliberately aimed at your head - at a speed of 90+ mph I wish you luck and hope that you don't get hit (I guarantee that it will hurt even with the helmet and padding).

 

Can I also suggest that you don't refer to either the sport or the bowler as "sissy-ass" as this is probably going to upset them. In the circumstances that you find yourself, I would venture that this is something best avoided.

It was a joke. I used to work a week in India one week, every other month. The guys would play cricket at lunch. Once there was a special match and we actually had to shut down production to let them watch. Going to a sports bar in India when a big match is on is a hoot. 

 

23 hours ago, RayC said:

That depends on your viewpoint. I was rather disappointed in the result.

I'm a liberal, it's the hard left I hate. 

[Chomper Higgot]

8 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

If I'm doing a study to determine if there is racism, how is that not going be largely subjective? 

Blind data collection and applying the null hypothesis are two methods to address this, there are others.

 

[Yellowtail]

2 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Blind data collection and applying the null hypothesis are two methods to address this, there are others.

 

You crack me up. 

[RayC]

12 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

From your mouth to God's ear. 

 

The methodology is generally objective, what's subjective, and generally biased (intentionally) or otherwise, are the definitions and questions. 

 

If I'm doing a study to determine if there is racism, how is that not going be largely subjective? 

 

When you ask a minority person if racism is increasing, they may say yes or no, solely based on what they read or hear in the media. Assuming you want to find the truth, this type of study is useless. Of course, if you are a media company that is in the business of promoting racial animosity, it is quite valuable. You can check your effectiveness, and even site the results to show that racism actually is on the rise and use that to further increase racial animosity. This is the most common type of study one would see in the media. A study designed to drive a narrative. 

If you ask the same person if they experience racism regularly in their own life, again, they may say yes or no depending on what they consider racism, and while one person might be constantly offended, another with the same experiences might be unbothered. This type of study is a little better, but it is still purely subjective. This is the type of study one would do if they wanted to know how people felt personally, and without much concern about what is true. 

If you ask the same person to provide a lot of personal information and have them complete a survey with a long list of very specific, well defined racist interactions and events, and have them rate each one with severity and frequency, then you start to get somewhat truthful results. Almost no one does this. 

Studies are not free. People fund them, and if the public is going to see the results, the study has to show what the people paying for the study want the public to see. 

If a company does a study to determine exactly what their customer base does and does not like about their product/candidate, it will be a well-designed study that is only looking for the truth, and the study will not be made public. If the same company does a study that they plan to use to show how much better their product/candidate is than their competitor’s, they have no real interest in the truth, they only want to show that their product/better is better, and this study will be made public. 
 

 

I interpret that as meaning it is impossible for a (social) survey to be objective because bias will always be present in the question(s) being posed and survey design? 

 

If that is the case then it begs any number of questions, the main one being,  why bother conducting any such surveys if the results are, by definition, bias?

 

12 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

 

The wealthy will always have an advantage over the poor. Tall men and attractive women earn more on average than do short men and unattractive women.  If your father is a director and your mother is a movie star, the odds of having a shot at stardom are exponentially greater than if your father left when your drug addict mother got pregnant.

 

In the US if you go to decent K-12 schools, have involved parents, and work hard, you have a good chance of getting into a good university. If you go to a sub-standard school, and your parent/parents are not involved and you don’t work very hard, you have little chance of getting into a good university. 

One problem in the US now is that universities lower standards to get kids enrolled that are coming out of sub-standard schools, and that are often not up to the academic standards that are required to pass, much less excel in the discipline of their choice, so they end up changing majors or dropping out. A bigger problem is that the curriculum gets watered down, and grades are inflated. Many of the people being "helped", graduate with large debt, and an often-useless degree. A black kid that graduates an inner-city high school with a 4.0 gets admitted into engineering at MIT flunks out after two semesters, and ends up taking ethnic studies. The same kid could have gone to most any state school and gotten (got?) the engineering degree the wanted with a fraction of the debt. 

It’s ridiculous. If you want more blacks studying engineering at MIT, the focus should be on improving the sub-standard schools, not on lowering the standards of great universities.  
 

 

I agree.

 

Wrt sub-standard schools, improvements might be found by adjusting their current operations, but it will almost certainly entail allocating relatively more resources (both human and capital) to such schools vis-a-vis the better performing schools. It must be more economically efficient as the potential marginal gains are greater. 

 

One of your 4 tests of being a leftie is placing equity above equality. I would suggest that this is an example where such a position is warranted. Indeed, I would go further and suggest that there are a wide range of public policies where such action is justified, and that one does not have to be a 'leftie' to support such decisions.

 

12 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

How about rule-of-law, property-rights and equality under the law to start with? 

 

You are proving my point: It is extremely difficult - if not impossible - to define a set of attributes which constitute culture. I would contend that it is therefore even more difficult to state that one culture is superior to another.

 

12 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

It was a joke. I used to work a week in India one week, every other month. The guys would play cricket at lunch. Once there was a special match and we actually had to shut down production to let them watch. Going to a sports bar in India when a big match is on is a hoot. 

 

I realise that it was a joke (as was my response). 

 

Yes, cricket on the sub-continent is something else. I would love to go to an India vs. Pakistan match.

 

12 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

I'm a liberal, it's the hard left I hate. 

 

I have more hatred for the extreme right, but have little time for the hard left either.

[Yellowtail]

5 minutes ago, RayC said:

 

I interpret that as meaning it is impossible for a (social) survey to be objective because bias will always be present in the question(s) being posed and survey design? 

 

If that is the case then it begs any number of questions, the main one being, why bother conducting any such surveys if the results are, by definition, bias?

That's like saying that because social surveys are not 100% unbiased, they aren't useful or not accurate. I am only saying that any study presented to the public is suspect. Someone is paying for the study, and you would not be seeing it if it's not what they wanted you to see. 

 

If you saw a study that surveyed 1,000 15-year-old boys about their sexual activity, how credible would you expect the results to be?  It's really no different. 

5 minutes ago, RayC said:

I agree.

 

Wrt sub-standard schools, improvements might be found by adjusting their current operations, but it will almost certainly entail allocating relatively more resources (both human and capital) to such schools vis-a-vis the better performing schools. It must be more economically efficient as the potential marginal gains are greater. 

It is difficult, that's why it's ignored. It's easy to disallow an Asian with a 1500 score on the SAT in favor of a black with a 1400. 

5 minutes ago, RayC said:

One of your 4 tests of being a leftie is placing equity above equality. I would suggest that this is an example where such a position is warranted. Indeed, I would go further and suggest that there are a wide range of public policies where such action is justified, and that one does not have to be a 'leftie' to support such decisions.

How? What are the public policies whereby a less qualified individual should be favored over a more qualified individual due to their skin color? 

5 minutes ago, RayC said:

You are proving my point: It is extremely difficult - if not impossible - to define a set of attributes which constitute culture. I would contend that it is therefore even more difficult to state that one culture is superior to another.

I think it's only difficult for some. I think American culture is superior Chinese culture. 

5 minutes ago, RayC said:

 

 

I realise that it was a joke (as was my response). 

 

Yes, cricket on the sub-continent is something else. I would love to go to an India vs. Pakistan match.

India would not be what is but for Briton.

5 minutes ago, RayC said:

 

 

I have more hatred for the extreme right, but have little time for the hard left either.

How do you define the extreme right? 

[RayC]

1 hour ago, Yellowtail said:

That's like saying that because social surveys are not 100% unbiased, they aren't useful or not accurate. I am only saying that any study presented to the public is suspect. Someone is paying for the study, and you would not be seeing it if it's not what they wanted you to see. 

 

An academic who is responsible for commissioning a survey will have their own opinion (bias). S/he will probably hope that the survey results confirm their opinion (bias). However, if s/he has applied 'best practice' principles to the survey design and has followed a statistically valid methodology, then imo the survey results will have validity and veracity.

 

1 hour ago, Yellowtail said:

 

If you saw a study that surveyed 1,000 15-year-old boys about their sexual activity, how credible would you expect the results to be?  It's really no different. 

 

I really don't know. 

 

Here's one such study if you are interested. 

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8102179/#sec0002title

 

Please don't ask me any questions about this survey. I have not - and will not - read it as I have no interest in the subject matter. 

 

1 hour ago, Yellowtail said:

It is difficult, that's why it's ignored. It's easy to disallow an Asian with a 1500 score on the SAT in favor of a black with a 1400. 

How? What are the public policies whereby a less qualified individual should be favored over a more qualified individual due to their skin color? 

 

I agree that public policy is difficult and that governments, by and large, try to avoid acting on contentious issues but I don't understand what is the point that you are trying to make? 

 

I also don't understand why you keep mentioning skin colour? I have not suggested anywhere that skin colour should be a criterion for allocating resources, etc. 

 

What I said previously was that there are times when public authorities - imo quite rightly - place equity above equality as in the example which I gave.

 

At the risk of demonstrating my ignorance of New York's demography extending my previous example, if more resources were given to schools in Harlem compared to Manhattan in order to try to raise standards, then the fact that the beneficiaries are most likely going to be black is irrelevant. The objective is to raise standards. I could substituted 'The Bronx' for 'Harlem' and the beneficiaries would likely be 

predominantly Latino, Italian, etc. My point(s) remains the same: Equity before equality is justified sometimes and, in my example, race/ creed is not the driver behind the policy.

 

1 hour ago, Yellowtail said:

I think it's only difficult for some. I think American culture is superior Chinese culture. 

 

A purely subjective opinion.

 

1 hour ago, Yellowtail said:

India would not be what is but for Briton.

 

A truism. Whether the UK's legacy in India is good or bad is a much more difficult question to answer. 

 

1 hour ago, Yellowtail said:

How do you define the extreme right? 

 

Impossible to produce a definite set of attributes but I would include such characteristics as being anti-democratic, authoritarian, favouring strong centralised government, racist, nationalistic, holding conservative (small 'c') views re social issues e.g. abortion, gay rights, etc, etc.  I would stress that just because someone is, say, anti-abortion I would not label them, 'extreme right'. Imo one needs to look at the entirety of the individual's views.

[Yellowtail]

16 hours ago, RayC said:

An academic who is responsible for commissioning a survey will have their own opinion (bias). S/he will probably hope that the survey results confirm their opinion (bias). However, if s/he has applied 'best practice' principles to the survey design and has followed a statistically valid methodology, then imo the survey results will have validity and veracity.

I thought we were discussing commercial studies. But even in academia, funding is required, and the funders drive the studies. 

16 hours ago, RayC said:

I really don't know. 

Here's one such study if you are interested. 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8102179/#sec0002title

Please don't ask me any questions about this survey. I have not - and will not - read it as I have no interest in the subject matter. 

I guess boys in the UK are different in the UK, but I would not expect the majority of boys in the US to respond truthfully about the extent of their sexual experiences. 

16 hours ago, RayC said:

I agree that public policy is difficult and that governments, by and large, try to avoid acting on contentious issues but I don't understand what is the point that you are trying to make? 

 

I also don't understand why you keep mentioning skin colour? I have not suggested anywhere that skin colour should be a criterion for allocating resources, etc. 

 

What I said previously was that there are times when public authorities - imo quite rightly - place equity above equality as in the example which I gave.

 

At the risk of demonstrating my ignorance of New York's demography extending my previous example, if more resources were given to schools in Harlem compared to Manhattan in order to try to raise standards, then the fact that the beneficiaries are most likely going to be black is irrelevant. The objective is to raise standards. I could substituted 'The Bronx' for 'Harlem' and the beneficiaries would likely be 

predominantly Latino, Italian, etc. My point(s) remains the same: Equity before equality is justified sometimes and, in my example, race/ creed is not the driver behind the policy.

Do we agree that the minimum standardized test score to get into a particular university program should be the same for everyone?  

 

Unfortunately, at least in the US, "recourses" just means money, but it sounds good in the press, and like we're really going to do something, but we're not. We're going to keep doing everything the same way we've been doing it but were going to spend more money. 

 

Youve claimed that: "Equity before equality is justified sometimes and, in my example, race/ creed is not the driver behind the policy.", and you claimed you provide examples, but I missed them. What were the again? 

 

 

16 hours ago, RayC said:

A purely subjective opinion.

You're right, and British culture was no better than German culture in late '30s. 

16 hours ago, RayC said:

A truism. Whether the UK's legacy in India is good or bad is a much more difficult question to answer. 

Not to the Indians I worked with. 

16 hours ago, RayC said:

Impossible to produce a definite set of attributes but I would include such characteristics as being anti-democratic, authoritarian, favouring strong centralised government, racist, nationalistic, holding conservative (small 'c') views re social issues e.g. abortion, gay rights, etc, etc.  I would stress that just because someone is, say, anti-abortion I would not label them, 'extreme right'. Imo one needs to look at the entirety of the individual's views.

Most of that describes the hard left. 

[RayC]

3 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

I thought we were discussing commercial studies. But even in academia, funding is required, and the funders drive the studies. 

 

Why make that assumption? Perhaps UK universities have more independence? To summarise imo, it is possible that surveys are driven by bias but not inevitable.

 

3 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

 

Do we agree that the minimum standardized test score to get into a particular university program should be the same for everyone?  

 

The US and UK systems are different. In the UK, two candidates may be given different offers based on the respective quality of their applications/ interviews (and different offers at different universities). For example, two candidates apply to read Economics at a university, candidate A submitted an excellent application and performed superbly at the interview. The university will give him/ her a place if s/he obtains 3 'A' levels with a minimum grade of 'B' in each. Candidate B was less impressive at interview, however s/he is also given a conditional offer, but must obtain 3 'As' to secure a place.

 

3 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

 

Unfortunately, at least in the US, "recourses" just means money, but it sounds good in the press, and like we're really going to do something, but we're not. We're going to keep doing everything the same way we've been doing it but were going to spend more money. 

 

It doesn't have to be that way.

 

3 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

 

Youve claimed that: "Equity before equality is justified sometimes and, in my example, race/ creed is not the driver behind the policy.", and you claimed you provide examples, but I missed them. What were the again? 

 

The example of allocating funding to schools in Harlem and the Bronx.

 

3 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

 

You're right, and British culture was no better than German culture in late '30s. 

 

We agree. Subjective viewpoint.

 

3 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

Not to the Indians I worked with. 

 

More subjective views

 

3 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

Most of that describes the hard left. 

 

Indeed.