Justice Department investigating door plug blowout on Alaska Airlines flight, report says

[EVENKEEL]

On 3/10/2024 at 10:38 PM, impulse said:

 

If reality was as simple as you claim, why do you figure the DOJ is calling in passengers, flight attendants and the pilots in their criminal investigation?

What could those people possibly tell us about a shop floor defect at Boeing?   They're Alaska employees and passengers, totally unrelated to shop floor issues, much less Boeing shop floor issues.

 

Now ask yourself what they may possibly tell us about Alaska's decision to fly the plane, but only over land...  And the 1 in 770 (0.13%) odds that those 2 seats would randomly be empty on an almost full aircraft.

 

Citing documents and people familiar with the matter, the newspaper said investigators have contacted some passengers and crew — including pilots and flight attendants — who were on the Jan. 5th flight.

 

https://apnews.com/article/boeing-ntsb-door-plug-emergency-landing-2d23408a25eff999579c88071836dbec

 

In any case, do you think Alaska told their passengers they were flying in a plane that wasn't cleared to fly over water?  They're in for a wicked ride at the lawsuits.  Even if those empty seats were sheer, dumb luck.

 

I've got a flight Taipei BKK with E exit seats coming up. What are my odds.

Edited April 7 by EVENKEEL

[Georgealbert]

On 3/23/2024 at 6:18 AM, Georgealbert said:

 

Remember under the last administration, Boeing was protected from prosecution, after federal prosecutors entered into a deferred prosecution agreement with the company, from the previous max incidents/accidents.

https://www.texastribune.org/2023/02/13/boeing-prosecution-737-crashes/

 

The government press release on the agreement from 7 January 2021.

 

https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/boeing-charged-737-max-fraud-conspiracy-and-agrees-pay-over-25-billion

 

 

 

 

How Boeing's latest crisis could imperil its 2021 Department of Justice crash agreement, and how they are now facing fresh pressure from families of the victims of two fatal Boeing 737 max 8 crashes, in 2018 and 2019 that killed 346 people, to be criminally prosecuted.

 

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/explainer-boeings-latest-crisis-could-050352423.html

[AverageAussie]

So, if there is a criminal prosecution with those deferred cases, are they going after company or the individuals behind those decisions?

[Georgealbert]

8 hours ago, AverageAussie said:

So, if there is a criminal prosecution with those deferred cases, are they going after company or the individuals behind those decisions?

I believe they are going after the company in the main, as it was Boeing, as a company, that got a deferred prosecution agreement, on the last day of the last administration.
 

Any prosecution will lead to further compensation claims, that will run into billions. The company will be the focus, but a few individuals may also face some charges. 
 

The FAA is also investigating a Boeing engineer's allegations about safety concerns on the 787.

 

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/boeing-787-dreamliner-whistleblower-faa-investigating/#:~:text=The Federal Aviation Administration is,787 Dreamliner raise safety concerns.

 

The ongoing crisis/problems is affecting the delivery of aircrafts.

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/04/09/boeing-airplane-deliveries-drop-during-q1-amid-safety-crisis.html

[AverageAussie]

Airbus Beats Boeing for Deliveries in 2024

 

Boeing’s deliveries of commercial aircraft have faltered in the first three months of the year, according to the company’s reports, published yesterday. The U.S. aircraft manufacturer delivered just 83 planes in Q3, down from 130 in the same three-month period of last year. In the meantime, its sole major competitor, Europe’s Airbus, saw an uptick in Q1, having delivered 142 of their planes, marking an increase from their Q1 2023 figure of 127.

 

Anna Fleck, Statista
Apr 10, 2024

[Georgealbert]

46 minutes ago, AverageAussie said:

Airbus Beats Boeing for Deliveries in 2024

 

Boeing’s deliveries of commercial aircraft have faltered in the first three months of the year, according to the company’s reports, published yesterday. The U.S. aircraft manufacturer delivered just 83 planes in Q3, down from 130 in the same three-month period of last year. In the meantime, its sole major competitor, Europe’s Airbus, saw an uptick in Q1, having delivered 142 of their planes, marking an increase from their Q1 2023 figure of 127.

 

Anna Fleck, Statista
Apr 10, 2024

Good data and information. Further details show that Boeing only delivered 29 planes in March, while Airbus delivered 63.

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/04/09/boeing-airplane-deliveries-drop-during-q1-amid-safety-crisis.html

 

NTSB have said that Boeing and FAA staff are to be Interviewed this week for 737 max door probe. So the problems/crisis continues, which can only mean more reduced/restricted output.

 

https://news.bloomberglaw.com/esg/boeing-faa-staff-to-be-interviewed-this-week-for-737-max-probe

 

 

 

 

[AverageAussie]

@Georgealbert  Thanks for those links. The second one is paywalled, but the point you make is clear.

 

It seems that (in the short term) the effect on Boeing is on their production, not necessarily sales. 111 Boeing sales in March is significant, but 85 of that number is a single B737 MAX 10 order from American Airlines. In that instance AA also placed orders for 85 x Airbus A321Neo and 90 x Embraer E175 aircraft as part of their modernisation program. Also as part of that Boeing order, AA has upgauged 30 existing 737 MAX 8 orders to B737 MAX 10 aircraft.

[Georgealbert]

33 minutes ago, AverageAussie said:

@Georgealbert  Thanks for those links. The second one is paywalled, but the point you make is clear.

 

It seems that (in the short term) the effect on Boeing is on their production, not necessarily sales. 111 Boeing sales in March is significant, but 85 of that number is a single B737 MAX 10 order from American Airlines. In that instance AA also placed orders for 85 x Airbus A321Neo and 90 x Embraer E175 aircraft as part of their modernisation program. Also as part of that Boeing order, AA has upgauged 30 existing 737 MAX 8 orders to B737 MAX 10 aircraft.

Sorry about the paywalled link, here is a better one.

 

https://aviationa2z.com/index.php/2024/04/11/ntsb-interviews-boeing-on-737-max-9-door-plug-incident/

 

Agree about the orders, airlines are limited for choices, so the Boeing order book will continue to grow, links to the American Airlines order and a 20 777X aircraft order from an undisclosed customer.

 

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/04/09/business/boeing-orders-deliveries?cid=external-feeds_iluminar_yahoo

 

https://www.airdatanews.com/boeing-wins-order-for-20-777x-jets-from-undisclosed-customer/

 

Also seems that the Alaska Airlines door plug repair, was not the only undocumented repair found by the NTSB investigation.

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/marisagarcia/2024/04/11/ntsb-chair-says-there-are-more-boeing-door-plug-repairs/?sh=416bb0be3603

 

 

[Georgealbert]

This Foundation has recorded all incident reports from the 737 MAX and is based on the fact that “U.S. based airlines are required to submit safety reports called Service Difficulty Reports (SDRs) for malfunctions involving aircraft systems in accordance with U.S. law.

The Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) is required by Department of Transportation policy to investigate these incidents to determine root causes and to ensure corrective action is taken by aircraft manufacturers and airlines to fix the problem(s).”

https://www.foundationforaviationsafety.org/incident-reports

[morrobay]

On 4/9/2024 at 8:41 PM, AverageAussie said:

So, if there is a criminal prosecution with those deferred cases, are they going after company or the individuals behind those decisions?

That's what criminal investigations are for

[morrobay]

1 hour ago, Georgealbert said:

This Foundation has recorded all incident reports from the 737 MAX and is based on the fact that “U.S. based airlines are required to submit safety reports called Service Difficulty Reports (SDRs) for malfunctions involving aircraft systems in accordance with U.S. law.

The Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) is required by Department of Transportation policy to investigate these incidents to determine root causes and to ensure corrective action is taken by aircraft manufacturers and airlines to fix the problem(s).”

https://www.foundationforaviationsafety.org/incident-reports

Maybe it's time for a FAA whistleblower protection program. And by the way  : why doesn't the FAA have criminal investigators? Could it be that Boeing is part of the military industrial complex.

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/what-did-boeing-whistleblower-sam-salehpour-reveal.html

[Georgealbert]

1 hour ago, morrobay said:

Maybe it's time for a FAA whistleblower protection program. And by the way  : why doesn't the FAA have criminal investigators? Could it be that Boeing is part of the military industrial complex.

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/what-did-boeing-whistleblower-sam-salehpour-reveal.html

Thanks for the link, was aware of this new 787 whistleblower, see previous link.

 

The FAA has;

 

“”The Enforcement Division initiates legal enforcement actions to address noncompliance by regulated entities and persons including certificate actions, civil penalty actions, and informal procedures and settlements. The policies, procedures, and guidelines for the FAA's legal enforcement actions are contained in FAA Compliance and Enforcement Program, Order 2150.3C.”

 

But enforcement and charges by the FAA, will be a lot narrower and limited, than from the DOJ/FBI.

 

Please note also that Boeing has deferred prosecution protection, give on the last day of the previous administration, following the max 8 crashes, and we are yet to see how that effects this investigation and any charges.

 

https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/agc/practice_areas/enforcement/enforcement_actions

[morrobay]

42 minutes ago, Georgealbert said:

Thanks for the link, was aware of this new 787 whistleblower, see previous link.

 

The FAA has;

 

“”The Enforcement Division initiates legal enforcement actions to address noncompliance by regulated entities and persons including certificate actions, civil penalty actions, and informal procedures and settlements. The policies, procedures, and guidelines for the FAA's legal enforcement actions are contained in FAA Compliance and Enforcement Program, Order 2150.3C.”

 

But enforcement and charges by the FAA, will be a lot narrower and limited, than from the DOJ/FBI.

 

Please note also that Boeing has deferred prosecution protection, give on the last day of the previous administration, following the max 8 crashes, and we are yet to see how that effects this investigation and any charges.

 

https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/agc/practice_areas/enforcement/enforcement_actions

The " deferred prosecution" was for three years and the plug blowout happened a few days before the window expired. Look it is high time to start calling spades spades with this Boeing Co. That as the engineer whistleblowers have reported: Put faulty production practice'$ before safety. I have had it with this Boeing/military industrial complex - reckless disregard/malicious intent. No prizes for guessing why nothing is going to be done . And what is this FAA "enforcement" doing besides turning the lights on . Boeing management should be locked up 

[Georgealbert]

How the deferred prosecution plays out, will decide if families of the passengers on the max 8 crashes, 2018 and 2019, will be now able to take Boeing to court for real compensation. Maybe the question of why corporate America were given so much leeway, needs to asked of the previous administration.

 

https://www.texastribune.org/2023/02/13/boeing-prosecution-737-crashes/

55 minutes ago, morrobay said:

The " deferred prosecution" was for three years and the plug blowout happened a few days before the window expired. Look it is high time to start calling spades spades with this Boeing Co. That as the engineer whistleblowers have reported: Put faulty production practice'$ before safety. I have had it with this Boeing/military industrial complex - reckless disregard/malicious intent. No prizes for guessing why nothing is going to be done . And what is this FAA "enforcement" doing besides turning the lights on . Boeing management should be locked up 

 

Here is an analysis of the current Boeing situation from a different view point, by looking at recorded data/information.

 

“Experts say Boeing-averse passengers’ fears are understandable but largely unfounded. And data from the National Transportation Safety Board suggests the number of Boeing accidents and incidents involving passenger flights this year is in line with previous years going back at least a decade.”

 

https://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/have-boeing-planes-really-had-more-problems-lately-look-at-the-numbers/

 

The new whistleblower Sam Saleshpour, claims are being investigated by the FAA, and Boeing’s response has stated that “Salehpour's allegations were "inaccurate" and contrary to the findings of comprehensive testing that had found the 787 could operate safely before needing "conservative maintenance routines." “.

 

Sen. Richard Blumenthal, D-Conn., who chairs the Senate Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee investigations subcommittee, said  he received a whistleblower's allegations earlier this year and had invited Salehpour to speak at a hearing on "Boeing's broken safety culture" next week. Blumenthal and committee ranking member Ron Johnson, R-Wisc., also wrote to Boeing and the FAA.

 

https://www.hsgac.senate.gov/wp-content/uploads/2024.3.19-PSI-Letter-to-Boeing-CEO-David-Calhoun.pdf

 

Boeing also says it makes its employees aware of their federally protected whistleblower rights which are designed to protect employees against retaliation, in its ethics and compliance policies.

https://www.boeing.com/sustainability/ethics-and-compliance

 

Boeing, the company, has three divisions, Commercial Airplanes; Defense, Space & Security; and Global Services

 

“Boeing Commercial Airplanes (BCA) builds commercial aircraft.

 

Boeing Defense, Space & Security (BDS) builds military airplanes, rotorcraft, and missiles, as well as space systems for both commercial and military customers, including satellites, spacecraft, and rockets.

 

Boeing Global Services (BGS) provides aftermarket support, such as maintenance and upgrades”

I myself have an interest in aviation safety and like to deal with facts and data, and try to use credible and reliable links to support the information I post. I have no agenda to push when discussing Boeing, Airbus, FAA, NTSB, etc. but like to base judgement on all the available details after the investigations are completed and any charges/changes are made/required.

Edited April 12 by Georgealbert

[Georgealbert]

Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) has tightened its grips on Boeing.

 

https://cargoforwarder.eu/2024/04/14/faa-plays-hardball-with-boeing/
 

All of Boeing's over 100,000 employees could be surveyed by NTSB investigators about its safety culture.

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/ntsb-could-survey-every-boeing-employee-about-safety-culture-2024-4

[Georgealbert]

Boeing claims no findings of fatigue on older 787 jets ahead of whistleblower’s Senate hearing testimony on Wednesday 17 April, but also urge new checks on 787 linked to jet’s multiyear review.  
 

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/boeing-claims-no-findings-fatigue-220437020.html

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-04-15/boeing-to-urge-new-787-checks-linked-to-jet-s-multiyear-review

Edited April 15 by Georgealbert

[morrobay]

Boeing investigating itself. No surprises In this inbreeding finding. No fatigue? What do you call this? Note the bolts are still in boltholes. Wake me up when half of Boeing management are taken away.

[morrobay]

[morrobay]

https://nypost.com/2024/03/15/us-news/boeing-737-loses-external-panel-mid-flight/to.        Fatigue 

Edited April 16 by morrobay

[Georgealbert]

2 hours ago, morrobay said:

https://nypost.com/2024/03/15/us-news/boeing-737-loses-external-panel-mid-flight/to.        Fatigue 

 

Sorry, but could you please explain yourself further, as to what you think this indicates? Single word comments do not really show an in-deep knowledge of what you believe is the problem.

 

This incident was a month ago, has even been discussed in this thread previously, if you had looked. This was a 737 800 aircraft, over 25 years old and is very different from the Max 9, Alaska Airlines, door blow out aircraft.

 

This incident has nothing to do with the ongoing DoJ investigation into Boeing, or the 787 whistleblower’s claims, and was more a maintenance issue for the airline.

 

These types of incident occurs, for all types of aircrafts, on a regular basis, if you look through the thread and links, you may learn that this was not a major event.

[Georgealbert]

Boeing reported to have severed ties with the lobbying firm ,Cornerstone Government Affairs, who were involved In 737 max 8 crisis management. Does this affect Boeing’s clout in Washington, ahead of today’s Senate hearing.

 

https://www.benzinga.com/markets/equities/24/04/38268829/boeing-severes-ties-with-lobbying-firm-involved-in-737-max-crisis-management-report

[Georgealbert]

Senate hearing, lawmakers say Boeing avoided accountability over economic concerns.

 

https://thehill.com/business/4600654-lawmakers-say-boeing-avoided-accountability-due-to-economic-concerns/
 

Boeing Critic Says He Shared Missing-Bolt Records With FBI
 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-04-17/boeing-critic-says-he-shared-missing-737-bolt-records-with-fbi
 

Boeing whistleblower calls for 787 production to stop ahead of Senate hearing
 

https://www.aerotime.aero/articles/boeing-whistlblower-sam-salehpour-dreamliner

[Georgealbert]

Now the US Department of Transportation watchdog has said it is auditing the FAA’s oversight of Boeing.

 

“The FAA has long been criticised for reportedly giving in to Boeing’s demands of relaxing some safety requirements and allowing the company to conduct its own inspections.”

 

https://www.semafor.com/article/04/17/2024/department-of-transportation-investigating-faa-oversight-on-boeing

[Georgealbert]

NTSB chair refutes whistleblower claim of Boeing document cover up, and that the company concealed key documents related to the Alaska Airlines flight.

 

“Jennifer Homendy was responding to comments made the same day by Ed Pierson, a whistleblower and former manager on Boeing’s 737 line, during a subcommittee hearing of the US Senate Committee on Homeland Security & Government Affairs.”

 

https://www.flightglobal.com/airframers/ntsb-chair-refutes-whistleblower-claim-of-boeing-document-cover-up/157872.article

[Georgealbert]

US Justice Department to decide by late May whether Boeing violated deferred prosecution deal.

 

https://www.reuters.com/legal/litigation/us-decide-by-late-may-if-boeing-violated-prosecution-deal-sources-say-2024-04-24/
 

 

Edited April 24 by Georgealbert

[Georgealbert]

Boeing duped the flying public before Alaska Air blowout, passengers say in civil suit.

 

https://www.adn.com/nation-world/2024/05/03/boeing-duped-the-flying-public-before-alaska-air-blowout-passengers-say-in-civil-suit/
 

[Georgealbert]

FAA is now, also investigating Boeing for apparent missed inspections on 787 Dreamliner. 

“Boeing “voluntarily informed us in April" that the plane maker may not have completed required inspections to confirm that there was adequate bonding and grounding where the wings join the carbon fiber fuselage on certain 787 jets.”

 

https://www.npr.org/2024/05/06/1249432229/faa-investigation-boeing-787-dreamliner

[AverageAussie]

6 hours ago, Georgealbert said:

FAA is now, also investigating Boeing for apparent missed inspections on 787 Dreamliner. 

“Boeing “voluntarily informed us in April" that the plane maker may not have completed required inspections to confirm that there was adequate bonding and grounding where the wings join the carbon fiber fuselage on certain 787 jets.”

 

https://www.npr.org/2024/05/06/1249432229/faa-investigation-boeing-787-dreamliner

 

This may actually be a good thing. 

 

The report was triggered by an employee's alert about a compliance breach. As long as the said employee's career prospects aren't now compromised.... 

[Georgealbert]

48 minutes ago, AverageAussie said:

 

This may actually be a good thing. 

 

The report was triggered by an employee's alert about a compliance breach. As long as the said employee's career prospects aren't now compromised.... 

 

One analyst stated.

 

“This is a major and unexpected new disclosure from Boeing.

 

In an internal memo to all staff, Scott Stoker, 787 VP and GM said, several people have been violating company policies by not performing a required test but recording the work as having been completed.

 

The word alleged is missing from my memo and Boeing have not delivered a single jet since April 12 of this year.

 

Boeing, have had to go back and repeat the missing grounding and bonding test on all 787s, thus  putting undelivered aircraft out of sequence and stalling all deliveries.

 

Boeing said this problem does not affect any aircraft which is currently in service and they can continue to operate safely.“

 

[Georgealbert]

Department of Justice to meet with families of Boeing victims (max 8 crashes, 2018 and 2019) as decision closes on if the company violated the deferred prosecution deal.

 

https://thehill.com/regulation/court-battles/4650361-doj-families-boeing-victims-prosecution-deal/