Justice Department investigating door plug blowout on Alaska Airlines flight, report says

[morrobay]

So I guess JFK jr. Was in the Dunning Kruger club until he hit the water.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning–Kruger_effect

[Georgealbert]

Boeing plea deal, a US judge sets quick schedule to consider family objections.

 

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/us-judge-sets-quick-schedule-164043155.html

[Georgealbert]

NTSB releases details on Boeing 737 door plug investigative hearing.

 

https://www.ntsb.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/NR20240717.aspx

[morrobay]

https://www.chron.com/culture/article/southwest-water-boeing-737-flight-19587187.php

[Georgealbert]

1 hour ago, morrobay said:

https://www.chron.com/culture/article/southwest-water-boeing-737-flight-19587187.php

Sorry but how has this anything to do with this topic - “Justice Department investigating door plug blowout on Alaska Airlines flight, report says”

 

Or are we now to expect you are going to get triggered every time you find a Boeing headline?

 

Can you please highlight, from the little detail we know about the Flight where you think this was a Boeing failure, and will be used 

in the current investigation?

.

“A Southwest Airlines Boeing 737-8 MAX, registration N8841L performing flight WN-425 from Columbus,OH to Tampa,FL (USA), had been holding enroute due to weather at Tampa before continuing the approach to Tampa. On final approach to Tampa's runway 10, ambient pressure was stated 30.14 in/Hg by tower, the crew was advised of a headwind gain of about 10 knots at low altitude and a "bumpy ride". The aircraft descended below minimum safe height, when tower issued a low altitude alert they levelled off. About 50 seconds after the low altitude alert tower queried whether they were planning to go around, which the crew affirmed. Tower cancelled the approach clearance and instructed a go around. The aircraft initiated a go around from about 370 feet AGL (compensated for local ambient pressure) about 4.2nm before the runway threshold. The aircraft climbed out to safety and diverted to Fort Lauderdale,FL (USA) for a safe landing about 40 minutes later.

The aircraft remained on the ground in Fort Lauderdale for about an hour, then continued to Tampa for a landing without further incident.”

Lets wait to see what he investigation says, but maybe Reddit, will be able to provide with a unqualified opinion, to suit your agenda and send you down another rabbit hole.

[Georgealbert]

58 minutes ago, Georgealbert said:

Sorry but how has this anything to do with this topic - “Justice Department investigating door plug blowout on Alaska Airlines flight, report says”

 

Or are we now to expect you are going to get triggered every time you find a Boeing headline?

 

Can you please highlight, from the little detail we know about the Flight where you think this was a Boeing failure, and will be used 

in the current investigation?

.

“A Southwest Airlines Boeing 737-8 MAX, registration N8841L performing flight WN-425 from Columbus,OH to Tampa,FL (USA), had been holding enroute due to weather at Tampa before continuing the approach to Tampa. On final approach to Tampa's runway 10, ambient pressure was stated 30.14 in/Hg by tower, the crew was advised of a headwind gain of about 10 knots at low altitude and a "bumpy ride". The aircraft descended below minimum safe height, when tower issued a low altitude alert they levelled off. About 50 seconds after the low altitude alert tower queried whether they were planning to go around, which the crew affirmed. Tower cancelled the approach clearance and instructed a go around. The aircraft initiated a go around from about 370 feet AGL (compensated for local ambient pressure) about 4.2nm before the runway threshold. The aircraft climbed out to safety and diverted to Fort Lauderdale,FL (USA) for a safe landing about 40 minutes later.

The aircraft remained on the ground in Fort Lauderdale for about an hour, then continued to Tampa for a landing without further incident.”

Lets wait to see what he investigation says, but maybe Reddit, will be able to provide with a unqualified opinion, to suit your agenda and send you down another rabbit hole.

The flight history since the 14 July, seems to suggest there is not much wrong with the aircraft, but lets not let things like real facts get in the way of your alternative reality.

 

Edited July 22 by Georgealbert

[impulse]

5 hours ago, morrobay said:

https://www.chron.com/culture/article/southwest-water-boeing-737-flight-19587187.php

 

Hmmm...  A trend?

 

Southwest flight drops to about 500 feet over Oklahoma suburb, triggers alert: 'You good?'

 

The incident is the second altitude-related incident at Southwest in just over two months being investigated by FAA.

Southwest Flight 2786 flight plunged to 400 feet above the Pacific Ocean near a Hawaiian island on April 11, the Federal Aviation Administration confirmed Monday.

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/airline-news/2024/06/21/southwest-airlines-plane-plunges-oklahoma-city-faa/74167295007/

Edited July 22 by impulse

[Georgealbert]

8 hours ago, impulse said:

 

Hmmm...  A trend?

 

Southwest flight drops to about 500 feet over Oklahoma suburb, triggers alert: 'You good?'

 

The incident is the second altitude-related incident at Southwest in just over two months being investigated by FAA.

Southwest Flight 2786 flight plunged to 400 feet above the Pacific Ocean near a Hawaiian island on April 11, the Federal Aviation Administration confirmed Monday.

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/airline-news/2024/06/21/southwest-airlines-plane-plunges-oklahoma-city-faa/74167295007/

Yet more off topic nonsense, can you please show where this is relevant to the topic - “Justice Department investigating door plug blowout on Alaska Airlines flight, report says”

 

For Southwest Airlines flight WN-2786, what happened in the 16 seconds, when the aircraft dropped is described in an internal memo which was circulating in Southwest Airlines stating,

 

“that during the go around due to weather conditions the first officer, pilot flying, inadvertently pushed the control column forward while monitoring the power settings causing the aircraft to descend to about 400 feet MSL before the aircraft started climbing again.”

 

This now alleged ‘trend’ has nothing to do with the Boeing investigation, and is certainly looks like it is not a Boeing issue, but as normal, do not let the real facts get in the way of your alternative real truth.

 

Reminder of you first post in this thread, that shows your level of credibility.

 

 

Edited July 22 by Georgealbert

[Georgealbert]

Boeing finalises 737 MAX guilty plea deal, US outlines reasons.

 

https://www.ajc.com/news/nation-world/us-files-details-of-boeings-plea-deal-related-to-plane-crashes-its-in-the-hands-of-a-judge-now/MLEMAIQO3VCQNB2VGSTLFN6L4I/

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/virginia/articles/2024-07-24/prosecutors-file-boeings-plea-deal-to-resolve-felony-fraud-charge-tied-to-737-max-crashes

[Georgealbert]

Here is the latest court docket, 4:21-cr-00005-O, update, from DoJ in District Court for the Northern District of Texas, in the case “United States v. The Boeing Company”, no details yet of the final deal.

 

https://www.justice.gov/criminal/criminal-fraud/case/united-states-v-boeing-company

 

 

[Georgealbert]

US judge should reject Boeing plea deal, crash victim families say.

 

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/us-judge-reject-boeing-plea-183833527.html

[Georgealbert]

The panel that blew off a Boeing Alaska Airlines jet will get star billing during a Washington hearing, next week.

 

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/panel-blew-off-boeing-jet-205612802.html

 

 

[GinBoy2]

This whole disaster is decades in the making.

 

My first job out of college was with Rockwell, building B1 bombers and I've always had an interest in the aviation industry.

 

When Boeing 'bought' MD I knew it was a bad thing.  

 

Essentially MD executives who were bean counters displaced the executive engineering management who had run Boeing from it's foundation.

 

When they announced the 787 outsourcing initiative I thought here we go.

 

The only reason a company moves to outsourcing is so they can squeeze the outsource company on price, which comes at a cost.

 

Spirit Aerospace who manufactures 737 airframes, plus Airbus I might add was owned 100% by Boeing until they spun it off.

 

The bean counters didn't do that out of the goodness of their heart, they did do squeeze every dime they could and increase those executive bonuses.

 

As it turns out, not working so well, those staid old engineering management types might well have been the better choice, and they wouldn't be in the mess they are!

[Georgealbert]

Boeing 737 Max Crash Victims’ Families Object to Plea Deal.

 

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/boeing-737-max-crash-families-204917560.html

[morrobay]

Is there any country in the world where these Boeing jerks would be held accountable??

[Georgealbert]

NTSB begins hearings in Alaska Airlines door plug blow out investigation. Federal investigators with the NTSB began its two-day hearingTuesday with Boeing and the company's manufacturers to better understand what led up to mid-flight blowout.
 

https://www.scrippsnews.com/us-news/ntsb-begins-hearings-in-alaska-airlines-door-plug-blow-out-investigation

[impulse]

 

Elizabeth Lund, who has served as Boeing’s senior vice president of quality — a new position — since February...  Lund said the company has significantly increased training since the Alaska Airlines blowout, and that the company is trying to improve quality as it focuses on “lean manufacturing.”

“Can I make one suggestion?” safety board member Todd Inman interjected.

“Sure, please,” Lund replied.

“Stop talking about leaner and quality and start talking about safer manufacturing,” Inman said.

 

Spirit Senior Vice President Terry George said that five years ago, 95% of the company’s factory employees had worked with sheet metal, but now it is 5%.

 

https://apnews.com/article/ntsb-boeing-max-blowout-alaska-airlines-22059af5e451a0f1047c955e1dcc9a5e

 

There were Spirit employees at the Boeing plant, but communication between the Boeing and Spirit workers on the floor of the Boeing factory wasn’t good, according to another interview transcript released Tuesday.

 

“Well, basically we’re the cockroaches of the factory,” one unidentified Spirit employee told NTSB investigators.

 

And a Boeing team captain at the 737 factory told investigators of problems of low employee morale and high turnover.

“We have a lot of turnover specifically because, you know, this can be a stressful job, you know,”

 

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/08/06/business/boeing-737-max-blowout-ntsb-hearings-day-one/index.html

 

 

[Georgealbert]

Boeing Lion Air Crash Cases Must Be Resolved by Admiralty Judges.

 

“The Boeing Co. succeeded Tuesday in its bid to avoid jury trials after a high-profile air disaster when the Seventh Circuit ruled lawsuits brought by families of victims must be heard in admiralty courts, which don’t use juries.

 

The family members or representatives of the victims of the 2018 Lion Air disaster where a Boeing 737 MAX 8 crashed into the Java Sea, killing all 189 aboard, must pursue their claims under the Death on the High Seas Act, the US Court of Appeals for the Seventh Circuit ruled. DOHSA limits the ability of victims’ family members to sue for disasters occurring in international waters only to suits in admiralty courts. And those courts solely provide bench trials.

 

A 2022 US District Court for the District of Northern Illinois ruling granted Boeing’s request to apply the Death on the High Seas Act to cases involving the 2018 Lion Air 610 crash, which would mean the cases would be resolved only by bench trials. The plaintiffs argued this deprived them of their right to a jury trial under the Seventh Amendment.”

 

https://news.bloomberglaw.com/litigation/boeing-lion-air-crash-cases-must-be-resolved-by-admiralty-judges

[morrobay]

So I guess this DOHSA bench trial favors Boeing. Well some consolation : It's costing Boeing in other ways  https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/19/business/boeing-families-lawsuit/index.html

 

 

 

[Georgealbert]

From the NTSB hearing.

 

Boeing’s instructions to workers criticised as complicated and confusing. 
 

https://www.businesstimes.com.sg/companies-markets/transport-logistics/boeings-instructions-workers-criticised-complicated-confusing#

 

NTSB to conduct safety culture survey of Boeing 737 MAX factory workers.

 

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/ntsb-conduct-safety-culture-survey-200046804.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly9oeXBlLmFlcm8v&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAGaUEtLTxmZ2yYctjjEnBfyUrSxByJAMySx1iLxjHz96Sd0jCeV4Te3oC-zWER6ihzwRtz7TxRQIDUjOxIYDrcH2GUjlfEe6Ykkdn9W4ewAZNLaieDlIlHFUnCsBq5FlLsaPdbyZdoio4b33QXWS8DIw0fGbxGW6dsvFcH4vjnU4

[Georgealbert]

A statement released by the NTSB indicates that the American aircraft manufacturer Boeing might have retaliated against two of its employees who worked on the door plugs of the Alaska Airlines aircraft that suffered a panel blow-out mid-flight. Meanwhile, Boeing maintains that no retaliative actions were taken as the company has a strict policy to prevent such situations.

 

https://www.flyingmag.com/news/ntsb-hears-testimony-of-boeing-retaliation-for-workers-mistakes/

[impulse]

4 hours ago, Georgealbert said:

A statement released by the NTSB indicates that the American aircraft manufacturer Boeing might have retaliated against two of its employees who worked on the door plugs of the Alaska Airlines aircraft that suffered a panel blow-out mid-flight. Meanwhile, Boeing maintains that no retaliative actions were taken as the company has a strict policy to prevent such situations.

 

https://www.flyingmag.com/news/ntsb-hears-testimony-of-boeing-retaliation-for-workers-mistakes/

 

I miss the olden days when it was perfectly acceptable to punish (and even fire) employees who did their jobs wrong, risking hundreds of lives. 

 

If they're shielded from consequences of their incompetence, what's the incentive to do it the right way?

 

Edit:  If I had a lament there, it would be that they didn't fire the higher people responsible for the rushed conditions and the lack of training.  And prosecute anyone who falsified documents.

 

Edited August 9 by impulse

[Georgealbert]

Boeing plea deal should be accepted, US Department Of Justice says.

 

 A plea deal struck with Boeing should be accepted, the U.S. Justice Department said in a court filing on Wednesday, after some relatives of the 346 people killed in two fatal 737 MAX crashes called for it to be rejected.

 

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/boeing-plea-deal-accepted-us-222528617.html