43 days in Thailand

[Liquorice]

17 hours ago, Liquorice said:

So if I was flying from the UK to Suvarnabhumi in Thailand, a cheap throw away flight from Hat Yai to KL within 30 days would fit the criteria?

 

3 hours ago, khunPer said:

To my knowledge: Yes.

 

2 hours ago, JayClay said:

 

How are you thinking outside the box?

 

Any international airport in Thailand should be fine.

 

If you entered Thailand via air, landing at Suvarnabhumi and refused entry, how would you then travel to a different Thai airport to use your outbound flight.

That's thinking outside the box!

[JayClay]

18 hours ago, Liquorice said:

 

 

 

If you entered Thailand via air, landing at Suvarnabhumi and refused entry, how would you then travel to a different Thai airport to use your outbound flight.

That's thinking outside the box!

 

The throwaway ticket is so that you will be able to board your flight to Thailand without issues when travelling without a visa.

 

It will not help you if you get denied entry when arriving in Thailand.

[khunPer]

21 hours ago, Liquorice said:

 

 

 

If you entered Thailand via air, landing at Suvarnabhumi and refused entry, how would you then travel to a different Thai airport to use your outbound flight.

That's thinking outside the box!

According to all threads here I've seen in ASEAN NOW and other forums about the subject, return or onward ticket is not checked by Thai immigration. It's the airline flying you to Thailand that checks it, and if you don't have the ticket, you will not be allowed to board the airplane. So, you'll not end up in BKK without a ticket, and nobody seems to care checking it there.

[mushroomdave]

On 3/16/2024 at 9:21 AM, Dan O said:

You got lucky because if you get denied entry for any reason then the airline foots the bill on your return. You may find this method not working in the future as having prefilled paperwork is no guarantee it will be accepted nor do airlines know the regs on extensions, but do know what happens if denied.  

Thanks and yes, done this my last 2 times here. I actually thought it was odd too doing it this way but they actually told me to do this from the Thai office in Ottawa so did as they suggested.  

[Liquorice]

6 hours ago, JayClay said:

The throwaway ticket is so that you will be able to board your flight to Thailand without issues when travelling without a visa.

 

4 hours ago, khunPer said:

According to all threads here I've seen in ASEAN NOW and other forums about the subject, return or onward ticket is not checked by Thai immigration. It's the airline flying you to Thailand that checks it, and if you don't have the ticket, you will not be allowed to board the airplane. So, you'll not end up in BKK without a ticket, and nobody seems to care checking it there.

You both completely miss the point.
I'm fully aware it's a requirement of the airline and not Immigration to have an outbound flight within 30 days when entering VE.

The reason for this is simple. If, for any reason, you were denied entry, the airline, at their own expense and inconvenience, are responsible for returning you to your point of departure.
As I understand, they are also subject to a separate fine.

 

Most simply recommend purchasing a cheap throw away ticket from any Thai airport, without any forethought.
My question (thinking outside the box) was simply if your outbound ticket was from any Thai airport other than the one at which you arrived, if refused entry, it would be impossible to travel to any other airport. At the very least, to avoid a refusal or complication to board at the original point of departure, make sure your outbound ticket is from the same airport you'll be arriving at.

 

Yes, I'm aware that the chances of being denied entry is minimal, but it's the airline that's responsible for you if you were to be refused, hence their policy.

 

Last year, a good friend had to return to the UK due to a family bereavement and was unable to renew his retirement extension.
Returning VE in November with the intention of applying Non O > 1 year extension at local Immigration and aware of airline policy, booked a cheap outbound ticket from Don Mueang to Kuala Lumpur.

His International flight was from London to Suvarnabhumi.
Checking in at London, the check in assistant noticed his outbound ticket was DMK to KL.
"Sir, if refused entry, how will you travel to DMK". Answer - he couldn't!

He then scurried around to book an outbound ticket from BKK to KL, before being allowed to board.

[DrJack54]

6 minutes ago, Liquorice said:

Checking in at London, the check in assistant noticed his outbound ticket was DMK to KL.
"Sir, if refused entry, how will you travel to DMK". Answer - he couldn't!

He then scurried around to book an outbound ticket from BKK to KL, before being allowed to board.

Have not heard that before but get your drift. 

The thing is ...if refused entry, the onward ticket is of zero help even if a real ticket and exit from same airport as arrival.

It would be a cheap no change of departure date etc.

I always assumed it was done  by airlines to lessen any fines. 

Perhaps that's incorrect.  

[Liquorice]

15 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

The thing is ...if refused entry, the onward ticket is of zero help even if a real ticket and exit from same airport as arrival.

If you have a valid outbound ticket from the same airport, that absolves the airline you used to arrive with of any responsibility to return you at their expense.

The airline informed him they'd been informed to be very diligent checking the departing airport of outbound tickets due to 3 passengers already refused entry in the month of November, and they found themselves responsible to return them to their point of departure, although the customer will always have the option to book and pay for an alternative flight elsewhere, but only from the airport they arrived at.

[DrJack54]

7 minutes ago, Liquorice said:

.....although the customer will always have the option to book and pay for an alternative flight elsewhere, but only from the airport they arrived at.

That is not my understanding. 

Denied entry you are flown back to airport that you departed from.

Almost no exception.

[Liquorice]

On the same subject, sorry but again a good friend.

He's regularly visited Thailand for years, entering VE then extending, typical staying for around 6 weeks each trip.
He always booked a return ticket within 30 days, then changed the return date after entering Thailand.

 

In 2022, he married his long term Thai girlfriend, meaning he could now apply for the 60-day extension.
He questioned the airline policy on the 30-day outbound ticket requirement, as they were fully aware he could apply for a 30-day extension, and now 60 day extensions.
He was informed the policy was for 'outbound' tickets and not 'return' tickets returning to the original departure point. (Which makes sense).

 

He has since provided return tickets for stays of between 6 weeks to 12 weeks, entering VE (3 times a year) and never been questioned, or refused boarding.

It appears there is a clear distinction between a 'return' ticket, where if refused entry, the return flight has already been pre-paid and from the same airport, and the same airline, just requiring the airline to change the return date, and an 'outbound' ticket, usually with a different airline and airport, where the airline from the point of departure is then responsible for your return at their expense.

 

The point being, many entering VE may intend staying for short periods of 4 - 8 weeks and with a 'return' ticket returning to their point of departure. In such cases it may be worthwhile question the airline '30 day' policy in such situations.

[Liquorice]

28 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

That is not my understanding. 

Denied entry you are flown back to airport that you departed from.

Almost no exception.

You have the right to book an alternative flight to a different destination and sign a waiver with the arriving airline which dissolves them of any responsibility of the passenger.

 

Some expats will choose to fly to Lao for example and try to enter via a border, or a different airport.
This is outlined by Trat Immigration.

https://www.tratimmigration.com/denial-of-entry-into-thailand/#:~:text=What to do After Being,a Thai consulate or Embassy.

 

What Happens When You are Denied Entry?

If this happens to you, firstly realise that you are not being deported from Thailand. You are being denied entry.  ( In order to be deported you first have to be allowed to enter.)

When you’re denied entry the Immigration officer has the choice to do one of three things. They can:

1 – Send you back to where you just flew in from
2 – Send you back to any country you can buy a ticket for
3 – Send you back to the country of passport origin.

1 and 2 are by far the most common.

 

Denied at an Airport

If you are denied entry then it is your responsibility to pay for your ticket to another country.
You will be taken to a holding cell at the airport where  you will stay until you have arranged your flight out.  There’s wifi and the staff can order food for you (at your expense)

 

What to do After Being Refused Entry?

Almost everyone denied entry just tries to enter again, either at another border, another airport, some get tourist visas from Thai consulates and enter by land, and most people will find a way to legally get in.

If in doubt get a Tourist Visa from a Thai consulate or Embassy.

[DrJack54]

17 minutes ago, Liquorice said:

When you’re denied entry the Immigration officer has the choice to do one of three things. They can:

1 – Send you back to where you just flew in from
2 – Send you back to any country you can buy a ticket for
3 – Send you back to the country of passport origin.

1 and 2 are by far the most common.

I don't agree with this. 

Granted #2 might be possible and have read very rare reports of that. 

#1 By far the norm. 

#3 is a given (last resort) 

 

Also based on all the reports regarding this situation , yes immigration would have final say however it's the airline that would be yay or nah for flight to airport the person in question requests.

In any event red herring 

[Dan O]

6 hours ago, mushroomdave said:

Thanks and yes, done this my last 2 times here. I actually thought it was odd too doing it this way but they actually told me to do this from the Thai office in Ottawa so did as they suggested.  

I find that quite odd as the regs are quite clear and embassies don't generally comment on visas as they are controlled by MFA. immigration at arrival doesn't ask for departure flight info unless there is something suspicious  in your history.

[Liquorice]

2 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

I don't agree with this. 

Granted #2 might be possible and have read very rare reports of that. 

#1 By far the norm. 

#3 is a given (last resort) 

 

Also based on all the reports regarding this situation , yes immigration would have final say however it's the airline that would be yay or nah for flight to airport the person in question requests.

In any event red herring 

Where's the red herring, it's perfectly applicable to the topic at hand.

 

For example, you arrive VE, via Emirates at BKK, with an outbound flight ticket from DMK to KL and you're refused entry.
You can't use the outbound flight ticket because you can't enter Thailand, you're stuck at BKK.

Emirates are now responsible for your wellbeing.

Your option is to book a flight to Vietnam instead, rather than return to your previous point of departure.

 

Vietnam airlines are happy to take your booking.
Emirates are happy to offload you to someone else.
It makes no difference to the IO, as long as you depart to somewhere else.

It's a perfectly logical solution to the problem.

You're not a pawn, as an airline passenger you also have rights if refused entry.

You also have the right to appeal the refusal of entry.

Edited March 19 by Liquorice

[JayClay]

12 hours ago, Liquorice said:

You both completely miss the point.
I'm fully aware it's a requirement of the airline and not Immigration to have an outbound flight within 30 days when entering VE.

The reason for this is simple. If, for any reason, you were denied entry, the airline, at their own expense and inconvenience, are responsible for returning you to your point of departure.
As I understand, they are also subject to a separate fine.

 

Most simply recommend purchasing a cheap throw away ticket from any Thai airport, without any forethought.
My question (thinking outside the box) was simply if your outbound ticket was from any Thai airport other than the one at which you arrived, if refused entry, it would be impossible to travel to any other airport. At the very least, to avoid a refusal or complication to board at the original point of departure, make sure your outbound ticket is from the same airport you'll be arriving at

 

No it is you who is missing the point...

 

The airline accepts evidence of onward travel within 30 days as proof that you intend to leave the country before the expiry of your visa-exempt entry.

 

The airline at this point are assuming you will be granted entry to the country so no longer worry about repatriation. They therefore don't care where your outbound flight originates from.

 

We can argue the rights and wrongs of this system until the cows come home, but that is the situation as it is.

 

Even if you have a flight booked from the same airport for 30 days after arrival how would that help, anyway? Are you just supposed to wait in holding the whole time?

[Liquorice]

3 hours ago, JayClay said:

Even if you have a flight booked from the same airport for 30 days after arrival how would that help, anyway? Are you just supposed to wait in holding the whole time?

Because you're far more likely to be able to be squeezed onto a departing flight sooner rather than later, and yes you have to wait in holding (not IDC).

 

If you have to purchase an alternative flight from that airport, you'll have wasted money, time, and probable be held longer.

As I previously stated, the chances of being refused entry using VE is minimal, but it can and does happen to a few, more so than we see posted on this forum.
It's logical and common sense to purchase an outbound ticket departing the same airport as you arrive to avoid disruption and inconvenience should you be refused entry.

 

Unless you plan to visit other nearby Countries, or intend to stay 'long term', I would imagine most tourists arriving VE would have a 'return' ticket departing from the same airport.

 

You obviously didn't read my previous post regarding the experience of a good friend last year regarding this matter.
That was using Emirates airline.

Edited March 20 by Liquorice

[JayClay]

20 minutes ago, Liquorice said:

Because you're far more likely to be able to be squeezed onto a departing flight sooner rather than later, and yes you have to wait in holding (not IDC).

 

If you have to purchase an alternative flight from that airport, you'll have wasted money, time, and probable be held longer

 

Firstly do you have any evidence to back up your first claim?

 

And secondly throwaway tickets are exactly that; they're designed to be thrown away. Many of them are automatically cancelled within 48 hours of purchase so it really, really doesn't matter which airport they were due to fly out from!

[khunPer]

On 3/19/2024 at 1:59 PM, Liquorice said:

On 3/19/2024 at 8:23 AM, khunPer said:

According to all threads here I've seen in ASEAN NOW and other forums about the subject, return or onward ticket is not checked by Thai immigration. It's the airline flying you to Thailand that checks it, and if you don't have the ticket, you will not be allowed to board the airplane. So, you'll not end up in BKK without a ticket, and nobody seems to care checking it there.

You both completely miss the point.
I'm fully aware it's a requirement of the airline and not Immigration to have an outbound flight within 30 days when entering VE.

The reason for this is simple. If, for any reason, you were denied entry, the airline, at their own expense and inconvenience, are responsible for returning you to your point of departure.
As I understand, they are also subject to a separate fine.

 

Most simply recommend purchasing a cheap throw away ticket from any Thai airport, without any forethought.
My question (thinking outside the box) was simply if your outbound ticket was from any Thai airport other than the one at which you arrived, if refused entry, it would be impossible to travel to any other airport. At the very least, to avoid a refusal or complication to board at the original point of departure, make sure your outbound ticket is from the same airport you'll be arriving at.

 

Yes, I'm aware that the chances of being denied entry is minimal, but it's the airline that's responsible for you if you were to be refused, hence their policy.

 

Last year, a good friend had to return to the UK due to a family bereavement and was unable to renew his retirement extension.
Returning VE in November with the intention of applying Non O > 1 year extension at local Immigration and aware of airline policy, booked a cheap outbound ticket from Don Mueang to Kuala Lumpur.

His International flight was from London to Suvarnabhumi.
Checking in at London, the check in assistant noticed his outbound ticket was DMK to KL.
"Sir, if refused entry, how will you travel to DMK". Answer - he couldn't!

He then scurried around to book an outbound ticket from BKK to KL, before being allowed to board.

I've never heard about this before. If you have a return ticket, which is not changeable, you would need to stay 29 days or so in the arrival airport's terminal. No, the thing is that you have proof for onward travel out of Thiland with the duration of your permitted stay, which is what the airline checks at your departure point.

 

However, if you think otherwise, then just buy yourself a changeable return ticket, then you'll be safe...

[Liquorice]

3 hours ago, khunPer said:

However, if you think otherwise, then just buy yourself a changeable return ticket, then you'll be safe..

All ticket dates are changeable, it depends on the class of ticket you purchase whether it's free, or a fee applies.

[Liquorice]

15 hours ago, JayClay said:

Firstly do you have any evidence to back up your first claim?

Plenty of reports on denied entry and how and where they were held waiting for a return flight.

 

15 hours ago, JayClay said:

And secondly throwaway tickets are exactly that; they're designed to be thrown away. Many of them are automatically cancelled within 48 hours of purchase so it really, really doesn't matter which airport they were due to fly out from!

I don't disagree with that.
Are throw away tickets free, if not, you'll have to book and pay for an alternative flight and from the same airport as arrival.
So you'll have wasted time and money, as I stated.

[AverageAussie]

If you're planning well in advance, then I would arrange take the path of least resistance and arrange for the visa prior to departure in Australia.

 

It saves you time (visa extension in TH), risk and probably a few $.

 

Watch the dates though as the Visa has limited validity before you need to start the trip.

[khunPer]

10 hours ago, Liquorice said:

All ticket dates are changeable, it depends on the class of ticket you purchase whether it's free, or a fee applies.

Nope, I've been using budget tickets that cannot be changed, fee or not; they are lost if not used on the booked flight.

We just try to help you with answers to your questions; just buy whatever ticket you like.

[Liquorice]

17 hours ago, khunPer said:

Nope, I've been using budget tickets that cannot be changed, fee or not; they are lost if not used on the booked flight.

You've just made my point.

 

To be clear, I'm talking about International flights into Thailand and if for chance refused entry, if that 'budget' outbound ticket wasn't departing from the same airport as where you landed, and by your own admission is 'lost' if not used, then you've wasted money and time because you'd now have to buy an alternative outbound ticket, or return to whence you first departed.

[JayClay]

On 3/21/2024 at 3:36 AM, Liquorice said:

Plenty of reports on denied entry and how and where they were held waiting for a return flight

Where?

[Liquorice]

14 minutes ago, JayClay said:

Where?

Well, I've been a member for 12 years, so read a lot of reports.

Google is your friend, try 'what happens if you get denied entry to Thailand' for some answers.

 

https://www.legal.co.th/resources/visa-immigration-law/thailand-immigration-law/what-happens-if-i-am-denied-admission-thailand/

Edited March 25 by Liquorice

[JayClay]

1 hour ago, Liquorice said:

Well, I've been a member for 12 years, so read a lot of reports.

Google is your friend, try 'what happens if you get denied entry to Thailand' for some answers.

 

https://www.legal.co.th/resources/visa-immigration-law/thailand-immigration-law/what-happens-if-i-am-denied-admission-thailand/

 

We're looking for a report of somebody being denied at immigration and then waiting in holding for 30 days until they can use their pre-booked flight out of the same airport.

 

Your link does not cover that eventuality. To be fair it does suggest (without citations as far as I recall) that you would be given time to make alternative arrangements - in which case a pre-booked flight is not really an advantage, anyway.

[Pattaya57]

I'm retired 6 years now and flown from australia to Thailand 3-4 times a year with ticket 60 days from arrival to cater for 30 days visa exempt + 30 day extension. Never had a problem.

 

(Thai Airways & Singapore Airlines)

[Liquorice]

16 minutes ago, JayClay said:

We're looking for a report of somebody being denied at immigration and then waiting in holding for 30 days until they can use their pre-booked flight out of the same airport.

You're not held for 30 days, or until the date of any prebooked flight.
You have the option to arrange the next available flight out to a different destination, or the airline you arrived with will simply amend the return flight date for the next available return flight.

 

[Liquorice]

2 minutes ago, Pattaya57 said:

I'm retired 6 years now and flown from australia to Thailand 3-4 times a year with ticket 60 days from arrival to cater for 30 days visa exempt + 30 day extension. Never had a problem.

 

(Thai Airways & Singapore Airlines)

That is also the experiences of a friend who regularly enters VE and can obtain 30/60 day extensions.
Provided you have a return ticket, at least certain airlines don't request a 30-day outbound ticket.

[Pattaya57]

15 minutes ago, Liquorice said:

That is also the experiences of a friend who regularly enters VE and can obtain 30/60 day extensions.
Provided you have a return ticket, at least certain airlines don't request a 30-day outbound ticket.

My last check-in with Singapore Airlines out of Brisbane I never even spoke to check-in staff as it's all automated kiosk now where they don't ask about visa or return flight. 

 

So not a problem for OP. If issue just explain you'll get a 30 day extension. This method is pasted all over the Thai Embassy sites as a legitimate extra stay process. He also has a return flight so no cost risk for airline.

 

All these people stating you must have a ticket within 30 days are scaremongers who have likely never been rejected a flight, just repeating nonsense they heard on this forum 😉

 

Edited March 25 by Pattaya57

[Mike Teavee]

On 3/19/2024 at 7:59 PM, Liquorice said:

You both completely miss the point.
I'm fully aware it's a requirement of the airline and not Immigration to have an outbound flight within 30 days when entering VE.

Wrong way around, it is an immigration requirement to have proof of onward travel when arriving on a Visa Exempt, however they will usually only check if they're looking for a reason to deny you entry. 

 

The Airlines wouldn't care if you had it or not were it not for the fact that they would be fined if you were refused entry & didn't have onward travel arrangements so it's in their interest to check.

 

I don't believe an Airline would be fined if you were denied entry but had onward travel arrangements as if this were the case then they would also be checking that you had the equivalent of 20,000 Baht in cash (probably the most often used excuse for denying people entry) & were not barred from entry into Thailand (Not even sure they could check this).