Nick Carter icp Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 1 hour ago, placnx said: That's the Hannibal Directive. https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-01-17/ty-article/.premium/unlawful-unethical-horrifying-idf-ethics-expert-on-controversial-hannibal-directive/ That link doesn't back up your claim . The link says Israeli soldiers may have done it You stated that the Israeli soldiers did do it . You made the claim that there is evidence of the IDF killing Israelis to stop them being taken to Gaza as hostages . Can you provide that evidence ? Someone saying that they might have done it isn't evidence 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bkk Brian Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 (edited) 5 minutes ago, placnx said: WFP suspended their aid to northern Gaza. Is this COGAT claim more disinformation? COGAT is a unit of IDF. https://www.independent.co.uk/world/wfp-gaza-food-famine-suspended-b2499455.html "The UN said that 80 per cent of aid deliveries destined for northern Gaza were blocked by the Israeli army in January. The WFP had already suspended its aid deliveries for three weeks prior to Tuesday’s decision due to an Israeli strike on a UNWRA truck. " More chaos followed because desperate people mobbed their trucks in northern Gaza. COGAT is a unit of IDF. They are the Coordination of Government Activities in the Territories: Judea and Samaria and towards the Gaza Strip | Coordinating and facilitating humanitarian aid for Gaza. They are the ones that know seeing as they are the ones that check and let every single aid truck go through and count them. https://govextra.gov.il/cogat/humanitarian-efforts/home/ Edited April 15 by Bkk Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
placnx Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 9 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said: Why cant you provide any photos of the alleged starvation in Gaza and why are many of the people rather fat If you google "starving kids in gaza" there are various YouTube videos. Also: https://www.hrw.org/news/2024/04/09/gaza-israels-imposed-starvation-deadly-children Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
placnx Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 5 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said: That link doesn't back up your claim . The link says Israeli soldiers may have done it You stated that the Israeli soldiers did do it . You made the claim that there is evidence of the IDF killing Israelis to stop them being taken to Gaza as hostages . Can you provide that evidence ? Someone saying that they might have done it isn't evidence There are many other links on this most recent implementation of the Hannibal Directive. Try Google. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
placnx Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 6 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said: COGAT is a unit of IDF. They are the Coordination of Government Activities in the Territories: Judea and Samaria and towards the Gaza Strip | Coordinating and facilitating humanitarian aid for Gaza. They are the ones that know seeing as they are the ones that check and let every single aid truck go through and count them. https://govextra.gov.il/cogat/humanitarian-efforts/home/ Propaganda. There have been thousands of trucks waiting on the Egyptian side. For one so-called "contraband" item, such as a pair od medical scissors, the truck is refused entry. Also, only approved drivers can enter (at least before Biden got angry over WCK). When the BBC checked, there were only 80 such drivers, but they are not all available in place when the Kerem Shalom gate is opened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bkk Brian Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 3 minutes ago, placnx said: Propaganda. There have been thousands of trucks waiting on the Egyptian side. For one so-called "contraband" item, such as a pair od medical scissors, the truck is refused entry. Also, only approved drivers can enter (at least before Biden got angry over WCK). When the BBC checked, there were only 80 such drivers, but they are not all available in place when the Kerem Shalom gate is opened. Its THE direct source. https://twitter.com/cogatonline Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Nick Carter icp Posted April 15 Popular Post Share Posted April 15 28 minutes ago, placnx said: There are many other links on this most recent implementation of the Hannibal Directive. Try Google. I do know what the Hannibal directive is . You do not have any evidence to back up your claim do you . And you have the front to accuse me of spreading misinformation . You post untrue things, I post true things and you then accuse me of spreading misinformation 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Nick Carter icp Posted April 16 Popular Post Share Posted April 16 On 4/13/2024 at 4:47 PM, placnx said: but beyond that there is evidence for IDF killing their own, in some cases to prevent live hostages from reaching Gaza. 16 hours ago, placnx said: Disinformation. Your post was "Disinformation" , there isn't any evidence of the IDF killing Israelis to stop them being taken hostage and taken to Gaza . There is no evidence because it didn't happen . I suggest that YOU stop posting disinformation whilst falsely accusing others of doing so 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hummin Posted April 16 Share Posted April 16 (edited) 15 hours ago, Nick Carter icp said: I do know what the Hannibal directive is . You do not have any evidence to back up your claim do you . And you have the front to accuse me of spreading misinformation . You post untrue things, I post true things and you then accuse me of spreading misinformation At least you are convinced ans sure about yourself, but people with little bit critical sense knows that is not true! There is many things you state as a facts, is impossible to prove or disprove unless you using biased media or pure propaganda sources. When you are to sure, you can be sure you are wrong! Edited April 16 by Hummin 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Carter icp Posted April 16 Share Posted April 16 2 minutes ago, Hummin said: At least you are convinced ans sure about yourself, but people with little bit critical sense knows that is not true! There is many things you state as a facts, is impossible to prove or disprove unless you using biased media or pure propaganda sources. When you are to sure, you can be sure yiu are wrong! The IDF did NOT kill Israelis to stop them being taken to Gaza as hostages by Hamas . That is the truth . You can prove me wrong by providing some evidence that I am wrong . Why do you even think that the IDF deliberately killed Israelis to stop them being taken hostage? How did that thought get into your head ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hummin Posted April 16 Share Posted April 16 18 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said: The IDF did NOT kill Israelis to stop them being taken to Gaza as hostages by Hamas . That is the truth . You can prove me wrong by providing some evidence that I am wrong . Why do you even think that the IDF deliberately killed Israelis to stop them being taken hostage? How did that thought get into your head ? I reacted to your general statement, you post true things if you did not understand. And yes you are taken several times for posting pure propeganda and inaccurate information " I post true things and you then accuse me of spreading misinformation" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Carter icp Posted April 16 Share Posted April 16 1 minute ago, Hummin said: I reacted to your general statement, you post true things if you did not understand. And yes you are taken several times for posting pure propeganda and inaccurate information " I post true things and you then accuse me of spreading misinformation" Stick to this one issue and stop trying to change the subject . The IDF did not kill Israelis to stop them being taken hostage . Any other subjects else can be discussed elsewhere . I am stating that the IDF didn't kill Israelis who where being taken hostage . If you believe that I am wrong about that , then provide some evidence 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hummin Posted April 16 Share Posted April 16 5 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said: Stick to this one issue and stop trying to change the subject . The IDF did not kill Israelis to stop them being taken hostage . Any other subjects else can be discussed elsewhere . I am stating that the IDF didn't kill Israelis who where being taken hostage . If you believe that I am wrong about that , then provide some evidence Okay, soldier holding a thai flag, got it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Carter icp Posted April 16 Share Posted April 16 1 hour ago, Hummin said: Okay, soldier holding a thai flag, got it The false accusation that the IDF deliberately killed Israelis needs to be addressed and shown to be untrue 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hummin Posted April 16 Share Posted April 16 5 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said: The false accusation that the IDF deliberately killed Israelis needs to be addressed and shown to be untrue They shot 3 hostages with white flag at Gaza? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Carter icp Posted April 16 Share Posted April 16 Just now, Hummin said: They shot 3 hostages with white flag at Gaza? The accusation was that the IDF killed Israelis in Israel to stop them being taken hostage . Your story is about hostages in Gaza being shot in a firefight with Hamas trying to free the hostages . Two different situations 1 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
placnx Posted April 16 Share Posted April 16 7 hours ago, Nick Carter icp said: The IDF did NOT kill Israelis to stop them being taken to Gaza as hostages by Hamas . That is the truth . You can prove me wrong by providing some evidence that I am wrong . Why do you even think that the IDF deliberately killed Israelis to stop them being taken hostage? How did that thought get into your head ? There was no forensic investigation in the kibbutzi or anywhere else to give absolute proof of how people died. Bodies were removed and examined later, so critical evidence from the scene is lost. Testimony of whistleblowers is all that we have. Nonetheless damage from heavy weapons suggests that Hamas et al did not do various destruction to buildings and vehicles ascribed to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
placnx Posted April 16 Share Posted April 16 5 hours ago, Nick Carter icp said: The accusation was that the IDF killed Israelis in Israel to stop them being taken hostage . Your story is about hostages in Gaza being shot in a firefight with Hamas trying to free the hostages . Two different situations Hummin said "They shot 3 hostages with white flag at Gaza?" The three Israeli hostages had escaped their confinement and displayed a white flag. Also they had stuck an SOS message on the wall outside the window of their detention room, but the IDF level of paranoia is so great that "shoot first" prevailed. You try to blame everything on Hamas, it seems. There was no firefight reported in this incident. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bkk Brian Posted April 16 Share Posted April 16 25 minutes ago, placnx said: Hummin said "They shot 3 hostages with white flag at Gaza?" The three Israeli hostages had escaped their confinement and displayed a white flag. Also they had stuck an SOS message on the wall outside the window of their detention room, but the IDF level of paranoia is so great that "shoot first" prevailed. You try to blame everything on Hamas, it seems. There was no firefight reported in this incident. "So Haim recorded a voice message sending love and support to the soldiers of the Bislamach Brigade’s 17th Battalion, who were involved in the tragic incident: “I know that everything that happened is absolutely not your fault, and nobody’s fault except that of Hamas,” Mother of hostage killed by troops: ‘I wasn’t angry at the IDF for even a minute’ Iris Haim, whose son Yotam was accidentally slain by soldiers as he tried to escape captivity, says when she heard brigade morale was low, she sent a message to boost spirits https://www.timesofisrael.com/mother-of-hostage-killed-by-troops-i-wasnt-angry-at-the-idf-for-even-a-minute/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Carter icp Posted April 16 Share Posted April 16 48 minutes ago, placnx said: Hummin said "They shot 3 hostages with white flag at Gaza?" The three Israeli hostages had escaped their confinement and displayed a white flag. Also they had stuck an SOS message on the wall outside the window of their detention room, but the IDF level of paranoia is so great that "shoot first" prevailed. You try to blame everything on Hamas, it seems. There was no firefight reported in this incident. Don't change the subject . You made the false claim that the IDF killed some Israelis in Israel to stop them being taken hostage and into Gaza . The story above is a different situation and time 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Carter icp Posted April 16 Share Posted April 16 1 hour ago, placnx said: There was no forensic investigation in the kibbutzi or anywhere else to give absolute proof of how people died. Bodies were removed and examined later, so critical evidence from the scene is lost. Testimony of whistleblowers is all that we have. Nonetheless damage from heavy weapons suggests that Hamas et al did not do various destruction to buildings and vehicles ascribed to them. Yes, some Israelis probably did die from friendly fire , but you do not have evidence that the IDF killed Israelis to stop them being taken to Gaza as hostages , which you claimed you did have 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
placnx Posted April 17 Share Posted April 17 17 hours ago, Nick Carter icp said: Don't change the subject . You made the false claim that the IDF killed some Israelis in Israel to stop them being taken hostage and into Gaza . The story above is a different situation and time The IDF does all kinds of war crimes. So here I was defending @Hummin who was responding to another of your claims. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Carter icp Posted April 17 Share Posted April 17 1 hour ago, placnx said: The IDF does all kinds of war crimes. So here I was defending @Hummin who was responding to another of your claims. Another thing that is untrue , you keep making claims that are untrue . I wont bother asking you to name those war crimes, because uou wont be able to and you',ll probably just make another false claims 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
placnx Posted April 22 Share Posted April 22 On 4/17/2024 at 3:56 PM, Nick Carter icp said: Another thing that is untrue , you keep making claims that are untrue . I wont bother asking you to name those war crimes, because uou wont be able to and you',ll probably just make another false claims Regarding the application of the Hannibal Doctrine on October 7th, this wiki gives some information: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hannibal_Directive#:~:text=A few days later%2C an,return to Gaza with hostages. There are reports in Israeli media: https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-01-17/ty-article/.premium/unlawful-unethical-horrifying-idf-ethics-expert-on-controversial-hannibal-directive/ Just now it's being reported on BBC, etc that the US is putting sanctions on an IDF unit, the Netzah Yehuda battalion, which has been under investigation for activities in the West Bank before October 7th. Sometime after October 7th it was transferred to Gaza. So US aid cannot be allocated to this unit. Other IDF and police units are under investigation: https://www.timesofisrael.com/us-mulling-sanctions-against-other-idf-units-for-alleged-rights-violations-sources/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Carter icp Posted April 22 Share Posted April 22 (edited) 6 minutes ago, placnx said: Regarding the application of the Hannibal Doctrine on October 7th, this wiki gives some information: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hannibal_Directive#:~:text=A few days later%2C an,return to Gaza with hostages. There are reports in Israeli media: https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-01-17/ty-article/.premium/unlawful-unethical-horrifying-idf-ethics-expert-on-controversial-hannibal-directive/ Just now it's being reported on BBC, etc that the US is putting sanctions on an IDF unit, the Netzah Yehuda battalion, which has been under investigation for activities in the West Bank before October 7th. Sometime after October 7th it was transferred to Gaza. So US aid cannot be allocated to this unit. Other IDF and police units are under investigation: https://www.timesofisrael.com/us-mulling-sanctions-against-other-idf-units-for-alleged-rights-violations-sources/ Could you just write things yourself, rather than just giving links to read ? What point are you making with the links ? Do your links show that the IDF shot and killed Israelis to stop them being taken to Gaza as hostages, as you claimed they did ? "Under investigation" doesn't prove anything . Do the links back up your claim ? Do you links show that Israel committed war crimes or killed its own people on purpose ? Edited April 22 by Nick Carter icp 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hummin Posted April 22 Share Posted April 22 2 minutes ago, placnx said: Regarding the application of the Hannibal Doctrine on October 7th, this wiki gives some information: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hannibal_Directive#:~:text=A few days later%2C an,return to Gaza with hostages. There are reports in Israeli media: https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-01-17/ty-article/.premium/unlawful-unethical-horrifying-idf-ethics-expert-on-controversial-hannibal-directive/ Just now it's being reported on BBC, etc that the US is putting sanctions on an IDF unit, the Netzah Yehuda battalion, which has been under investigation for activities in the West Bank before October 7th. Sometime after October 7th it was transferred to Gaza. So US aid cannot be allocated to this unit. Other IDF and police units are under investigation: https://www.timesofisrael.com/us-mulling-sanctions-against-other-idf-units-for-alleged-rights-violations-sources/ You will not manage to go through their fixed idea IDF and the ultra-orthodox Netzah Yehuda Battalion have committed crimes for years, but they deny it because lack of trustworthy credible sources. Human right organizations, Un, Unicef is all biased, and today we see many credible newspapers refer to Usa sanctions based on the very same accusations. There is no way any sane government want to continue support such a terror regime like Israel, without being viewed in the same category as Iran and alike Good luck 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Carter icp Posted April 22 Share Posted April 22 4 minutes ago, Hummin said: You will not manage to go through their fixed idea IDF and the ultra-orthodox Netzah Yehuda Battalion have committed crimes for years, but they deny it because lack of trustworthy credible sources. Human right organizations, Un, Unicef is all biased, and today we see many credible newspapers refer to Usa sanctions based on the very same accusations. There is no way any sane government want to continue support such a terror regime like Israel, without being viewed in the same category as Iran and alike Good luck I have asked him to back up his claims . I am waiting for him to provide evidence that Israel committed war crimes and that the IDF deliberately killed Israelis to stop them being taken hostage . Can you provide the evidence to back his claims up ? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hummin Posted April 22 Share Posted April 22 2 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said: I have asked him to back up his claims . I am waiting for him to provide evidence that Israel committed war crimes and that the IDF deliberately killed Israelis to stop them being taken hostage . Can you provide the evidence to back his claims up ? War crimes and regulary abuse of palestinians by settlers, guards, police and army have you declined repeatedly over and over have not happened, because of no proofs. When it comes to friendly fire, I only know those hostages with white flags is confirmed. The humanitarian group that was bombed, I do not reckon as friendly fire mistake 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Carter icp Posted April 22 Share Posted April 22 8 minutes ago, Hummin said: War crimes and regulary abuse of palestinians by settlers, guards, police and army have you declined repeatedly over and over have not happened, because of no proofs. When it comes to friendly fire, I only know those hostages with white flags is confirmed. The humanitarian group that was bombed, I do not reckon as friendly fire mistake Could you just state what those war crimes were ? Yes , the IDF messed up when they killed the three hostages , but the claim was that the IDF deliberately killed Israelis in Israel to stop them being taken hostage . That is what I was asking proof of The IDF claim that they thought that Hamas had hi-jacked the aid trucks and that why they were bombed 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hummin Posted April 22 Share Posted April 22 17 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said: Could you just state what those war crimes were ? Yes , the IDF messed up when they killed the three hostages , but the claim was that the IDF deliberately killed Israelis in Israel to stop them being taken hostage . That is what I was asking proof of The IDF claim that they thought that Hamas had hi-jacked the aid trucks and that why they were bombed Earlier links have been deleted, and now all Blinken threatening with, is vague statements based on the same reports and incidents. The information is there, if you want to search and find. Short announcement from "U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken on Friday said he has made "determinations" regarding accusations that Israel violated a set of U.S. laws that prohibit providing military assistance to individuals or security force units that commit gross violations of human rights. The Leahy Laws, authored by then-Senator Patrick Leahy in the late 1990s, prohibit providing military assistance to individuals or security force units that commit gross violations of human rights and have not been brought to justice. Blinken said an announcement could be made "very soon"." https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/what-is-israeli-netzah-yehuda-battalion-accused-2024-04-22/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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