Building In Baan Amphur

[sattahip]

I am an avid reader of this forum and have gathered a lot of useful information from those that post to it for which I am really grateful. So I thought a diary style thread on my tyro efforts in the homebuilding arena might be of interest.

The Story to Date.

I retired 14 years ago at 47 and came to live in a townhouse I had previously "bought" in Naklua. Lived there for 7 years, lived wild and after a few heart attacks and a quad bypass, took opportunity to buy a friend's spare condo in Baan Amphur and move to the country! I must say I have never regretted it. The condo is absolute beachfront, cool, spacious and well run, and only 10 minutes by car to Tesco, Big C and Homeworks.

Now the complication is that my driver/factotum who has loyally looked after me through thick and thin for 14 years gets married and a bub ensued- condo is now too small. Ah but the saving grace is that on the spur of the moment 3 years ago, and in only 3 days, I had "bought" an 130 TW(525sqm) block of land in the grounds of the neighbouring condo. The usual story, the developer "forgot" to put this land on the common deed and then sold it. So let's build a house and rent/sell the condo is my bright ( I hope) idea.

An aside- Define "Bought"

The Naklua property was in a company when I expressed interest in buying. However I declined to buy it as I had no idea what business had been transacted through it and what liabilities it might carry. This was eventually sorted out and I had a Thai nominee buy the property clean on a Nor Sor Sam Kor deed and took a registered 1st mortgage to establish control over it. This was a quick way to handle the purchase and had benefits-legal control, capacity to repossess basically at will (Govt allows aliens to hold while sellling repossessed land for a year with extensions considered if sale circumstances are poor). I upgraded the deed to a Chanote(full title) and set up a clean company to which I transferred the property. This to avoid the great fault of the first mortgage route, keeping contact with the "owner", the risk of their death or disappearance and consequent difficulties.

So sale was easy, just a share transfer.

The Baan Amhpur condo is in my own name and the deed is, of course, a chanote. No problem there.

The new land was a hassle as well as I transited for speed from purchase in my driver's name with a registered 30 year lease to a company structure once again. Well there has been a real kerfuffle about "nominee" companies which to my mind is rubbish. Disclaimer-Views my own-no responsibilty_. The driver initally had 98 percent of the shares purchsed with the land which he contributed to the company. I had my driver sell me 39% of the company in exchange for building a house on it. 2 Thai friends, each of over 20 years standing, put cash through the company to purchase a modest minority. So all main shareholders paid(that's the operative word) for their share. What nominees? Then I took a registered 30 year lease from the company (very inexpensive) and, well, maybe there are a few pre-signed documents somewhere but who would know or care.

Aside finished.

So where to from there. the Architect.

It seems to my that a lot of the houses around Pattaya lack a certain charm. Even high class Thabali efforts look fairly contrived and I wanted something better that the flat-walled, small aluminium window efforts that are passed of as "luxury" bungalows. So an architect was found from Bangkok with a sound long term reputation of working with farangs successfully. From November 06 to June 07 I/we struggled with a plan and then the final drawings and engineering plans. Cost Baht300,000-about 10% of the construction budget. Was it worth it- Yes and No. Theplans ended up as I wanted and practical. But basically it was a floorplan at great expense with really crappy old style foundation/column structure which is immensely over-engineered. This sort of crap is necassary to get local approval but nobody in their right mind would build it on a sound sand base as opposed to Bangkok clay where such a design might just be relevant. So I have 60 pages of beautifully detailed drawings, material specifications and the like and a bidding document unlike any ever seen before in Thailand.

Where too from here? The Contractor.

Well the architect has no real contacts down here and is useless as an aide in finding builders. This forum has taught me the builder is everything so how to find one and whether to contract it all to him or act as a head contractor myself with all the attendant risks. Much stumbling at this point. Still I have been watching the progress of a mate's new house on Chark Nork Lake and have been very impressed by the contractor. He is European trained (Austria) and is using the latest Smart block technique building quickly and cleanly without the ubiquitous columns. He has had the same team I find for several years. So I ask him to bid on the whole contract. Result rubbish. No idea how to deal with the architect's bid document which I agree is more suitable for a 90 storey tower block. Subcontracted work is at inflated prices and with unknown contractors, but still this seems like the right guy for the core building. Well that decides it; I am now a contractor.

Next. Splitting the work. Watchwords-Under and overlaps

So I have the structure builder I like but that leaves, the electrics, the pool, the doors and windows, the airconditioning, interior fit out and ceramics. So first to the builder. I say bid on what you do well. This he does and his price is good and I have seen his work. So I accept that bid. The pool is pretty straight forward, only 5 by 4 metres with an infinity end wrapped inside the u-shaped house and bounded by a terrece. I try to get reasonable quotes and am unimpressed by the pool industry here. Vague and expensive when they bother to follow up with a quote. Still some perserverance yields a straight talking Brit who has worked very satisfactorily with other friends, So deal done and at the best price I was quoted Baht320,500 icluding saltwater chlorination, Emaux lights and all the other equipment. Well I am particular about safety and good electrics are a key consideration. I find a Swiss who has worked with my building contractor before and has all the right references. He will work for a flat fee plus reimbursemejnt of purchase receipts-about 40% of the original electrics bid-done. So what about windows and doors. I had had hopes of teak, dashed by my lack of enough dough. So aluminium or uPVC at about 3 times the aluminium price. Well this house will be one of my major assets and I decide to stretch to uPVC- EuroPVC recommended here wins the quote hands down and impresses me with its service and approach-done. Everybody around town I know in the building game seems to recommend Daikin aircon. I need 5 units 1 by 9000btu, 2 by 14000btu, 1by 18000btu and a ceiling cassette of 36000btu. I really shop round and get wildly varying quotes until meet Kn Andreas of ARC; Baht135,000 the lot including installation and Vat-done. I happen at this time to be renovating my apartment (am I crazy?) and have a great tradesman based in Sattahip that has been building furniture and doing renovations for my Thai friends here for years, so he is a no-brainer for the interior work and furniture (I boughtBaht100,000 of teak some year ago which will be used)-done.

The Roundtable

May 23, all the contractors(ex Windows and Air) and the architect meet at my place for about 3 hours. All speak pretty good English and we do a review of who is doing what. I approve deviation from the architect's plans to a perimeter style foundation(60cms) and double steel reinforced platform, Smart block technology etc which renders all the engineering drawings rubbish. I take comfort from the fact both the Swiss electrics guy and the pool Brit are builders in their own right and 100% back this choice.

Licences.

Again without a head contractor who would usually handle building approval, the architect files the papers at the Tessaban. No real result as he has no clout, is from Bangkok and doesn't really understand "local" (ahem) needs. Builder takes over and that's that. Electricity is from Sattahip Power which although bureaucratic, is a well run organisation-temporary meter on site in no time. As for water tha's another story entirely. For some strange reason Pattaya Water (of great imfamy) supplies the water on the seaside of the Sukhumvit even in NaJomtien and Baan Amphur. Grind, grind, 25 days then the cruch. Pay Baht183000 and we will lay the necessary 4 inch pipe to your house which is 187 metres from the mains. After a modest frisson I decide on a well. It is being drilled now and I have my fingers crossed. Cost Baht24000 if no success, Baht80,000 if potable water at 2000lts/hour found, including PVC pipng, Franklin submersible etc. Likely depth 50/70 metres, time 4 days.(Thanks to all who contributed to the "Bore" thred elsewhere on Thaivisa)

The Land

The block is in the grounds of the VIP Condominium, is roughly square and lies about 200 metres from the Sukhumvit to the east and 200 metres to the beach in the west. For Baht7000 per year I enjoy all the rights to the common areas of the condo as condo owners. This includes direct beach access, their swimming pool, gym, tennis courts, parking, security, street cleaning and maintenance and so on. To the South across the road from my block is a 10 metre wide garden strip owned and maintained by the condo. To the north I back onto the gardens of the condo block in which I currently own a unit. It's really like building in a park. The land cost Baht11,000 per tarang wah which was good value. The land is flat and required no fill. The only covenant on the block was that building may not exceed 2 floors.

Big, big pause. Foe those that have read or scanned these ramblings so far, they are the result of a bout of insomnia. If the moderator feels this is crap and whacks it I will understand. If not more as building progresses and I will explore posting some pics

Cheers for now

Sattahip

[Jai Dee]

Interesting read and good luck with the building.

When do you exprect to be finished?

I'll just move this thread to the Housing Forum, where it is likely to receive more attention.

/Moved.

/Edit - If you do decide to continue to post your building a house story, why not start a blog where you can post pictures and keep us all informed of how it's progressing. It's also a good way of keeping family and friends who may be overseas up to date on what you're doing.

I created a blog some time ago when I was building my house (coincidentally, also in Baan Amphur). I haven't updated it in some time though. Check it out here.

[Irene]

Wonderful reading and I learned quite a lot. As to your contractor role, can your heart withstand the coming frustrations of dealing with all sorts of workers. Anyhow, good luck!

[sattahip]

Thanks, JaiDee

The work started about23 June with the pool shell. Then foundations were completed pronto and the platform is done. The walls are about halfway up and the well is being drilled now. So in 1 month very fast progress and none of that Thai knows best bullshit.

Contract is formally from 1 July to 15 December for construction completion but the builder who is Muslim wants to go on the Haj in November and that's his real deadline. No argument for me but I am watching for any shorcuts and using a couple of friends, one a quantity surveyor and the other an architect with 20+ years experience in SEAsia as "consultants".

Cheers

[Jai Dee]

Just a couple of tips that you need to be watchful of...

1. Check all the water piping ie. pressure test it before hiding it behind cement or tiles. If there is a faulty joint or leak, it will be easy to fix before covering it up. You wouldn't want to find a leak develop under floor tiles (as happened with me) 12 months after moving in, and having to dig up all the floor tiles to find and fix the leak.

2. Make sure that all your shower drains and floor drains have S-bends or P-traps fitted. This will effectively stop any bad odours coming into the house from your gray water tanks.

3. Give consideration to the location of your air conditioner condensers outside the house, and their condensate drains. It may be better to build in some 1/2" or 3/4" drain pipes before you do your outside paving to take the water away from the house and into the garden. Water pooling against a wall will result in a damp wall which could cause problems to tiling, timber panelling, or wardrobes inside the house.

All of the above are common problems that aren't given much attention by Thai builders, but will result in less hassles for you after you move in.

[elkangorito]

Nice place Ban Amphur. I live there.

[Rimmer]

Yep that's the only way to go Sattahip!

Be your own clerk of works and paymaster, that way you are in total charge of your project.

We just finished our house at Phoenix after one year of chasing around sourcing, chasing contractors and taking a hammer to stuff done incorrectly. The result is that you save a lot of money and gain a lot of satisfaction.

If you are interested our result and construction from a green field site it is at http://www.flickr.com/photos/banjopicker/

There are two technical construction books on sale at Lotus written by a Westerner with a lot of really good illustrations. The nice thing about it is that one is in English and the other is in Thai and is a mirror image of the same book written in English so you can find a page in English and the contractor can then refer to his book in Thai.

Trust me you will have so much fun that you will want to do it again

Edited July 25, 2007 by Rimmer

[Rimmer]

Just a couple of tips that you need to be watchful of...

1. Check all the water piping ie. pressure test it before hiding it behind cement or tiles. If there is a faulty joint or leak, it will be easy to fix before covering it up. You wouldn't want to find a leak develop under floor tiles (as happened with me) 12 months after moving in, and having to dig up all the floor tiles to find and fix the leak.

2. Make sure that all your shower drains and floor drains have S-bends or P-traps fitted. This will effectively stop any bad odours coming into the house from your gray water tanks.

3. Give consideration to the location of your air conditioner condensers outside the house, and their condensate drains. It may be better to build in some 1/2" or 3/4" drain pipes before you do your outside paving to take the water away from the house and into the garden. Water pooling against a wall will result in a damp wall which could cause problems to tiling, timber panelling, or wardrobes inside the house.

All of the above are common problems that aren't given much attention by Thai builders, but will result in less hassles for you after you move in.

Exactly right JD they do not consider these things important at all. The other thing which is often forgotten is the check valves on the water and sewer pipes. Most important if you want a clean flow of water and one that will not suck the grey water pipe dry allowing smells to come back up the U traps.

I have to laugh when I remember your story about your wall that went up and down and the window that did not get put in when it was being built.

[chownah]

When pressure testing the water pipes the best way is to check EVERY joint not only for leakage during a pressure test but also for the presence of glue residue BEFORE the pressure test...and if you find a joint with no glue residue then be especially wary of this one and put some effort into trying to dismember that joint to be sure it is secure.... and if possible by giving all of them a good shake and a pull DURING the pressure to be sure it has been glued...fact is that blue pvc pipe can be assembled without glue and be watertight for awhile...but come lose from vibrations later. I'm stressing this because from what I've read here, leakage after completion is a too common problem here and my experience is that if glue was used there is no leakage so it seems like this problem should be avoidable by rigorous inspection.

Chownah

Edited July 25, 2007 by chownah

[sattahip]

Thanks all. Hit water day 2 at 45 metres. Flow rate estimate 5000 litres per hour, a real gusher took place!, looks clean but testing to come. I'm rather happy tonight.

[Snowbirds]

Nice place Ban Amphur. I live there.

In my childhood years, I was growing up in Bangkok. I have relocated to the Northwest Seattle since the 70's. My (Thai nurse) wife and I are about to retire next year. And we are looking to rent or buy a beach front condo as our second home. Besides, Cha Am and Hua Hin, Baan Amphur area is seemed to be a very nice place to live. Because my wife and I are an outdoor type person, who love to do a lot of walking, fishing and golfing. Would you or anyone please give us some tips about a well managed condo in Baan Amphur or Sattahip area for us to rent first and then buy later. Thank you.