Introduction to Personal Income Tax in Thailand

[Mutt Daeng]

10 hours ago, oldcpu said:

 

I suspect as you already know, that document has tax year 2023 hard printed.  its not nominally for tax year 2024. My speculation thou is the year 2024 tax form may be very similar to that of the year 2023 tax form.

 

Further, that 2023 tax form has no location in that form for remitted income exempt due to LTR visa, nor any location in that form for remitted income exempt due to DTA agreements, nor any location in that form for remitted income exempt if covered under Paw-161/162.  

 

What does that tell us? 

 

For those curious, take a look at Thai Tax code article 42.  Note that income covered (and noted as exempt)  by ministerial regulations are not to be included in tax calculations.  ie such income is not-assessable.  Thailand tax forms are only for assessable income.  Ergo such income is not to be included in a tax form - IMHO.

 

Yes, thanks for highlighting this. I know it is the 2023 form . I was merely using it as an example to inform @samtam about  how one could provide TEDA details in previous years. 

[samtam]

15 hours ago, Mutt Daeng said:

Yes, thanks for highlighting this. I know it is the 2023 form . I was merely using it as an example to inform @samtam about  how one could provide TEDA details in previous years. 

@Mutt Daeng & @oldcpu are you suggesting that remitted income (by whatever means, ATM, Debit Card, FPS QR etc), should not be included as assessable income, even if these those "remittances" are derived from monies paid in the tax year 2024, such as UK State Pension in my case?

I draw on funds overseas via the "remittance" methods aforementioned, but as you note, there is no box to specify those remittances. I can use "pension" for the proportion I have "allocated", from that which I draw from co-mingled funds.

[oldcpu]

3 hours ago, samtam said:

@Mutt Daeng & @oldcpu are you suggesting that remitted income (by whatever means, ATM, Debit Card, FPS QR etc), should not be included as assessable income, even if these those "remittances" are derived from monies paid in the tax year 2024, such as UK State Pension in my case?

 

No. i"m not suggesting such. I don't know the origin of that money, nor do I know the UK-Thai DTA details.

 

I think if you can show that money plausibly could have come from pre-1-Jan-2024 savings/income, then all is ok.  But regard to money derived from tax year-2024 and remitted into Thailand  ? You need to check the UK-Thai DTA.

 

[samtam]

I am having a similar discussion on another tax thread:

 

•  

Quote

14 hours ago, Guavagman said:

 

Assessable income is declared according to the category of income 40(1)-(8), pension or dividends that  is remitted. If you withdraw those funds by ATM, CC, etc., that assessable income is reported as either pension or dividends according to the source of those funds remitted. Ideally, one would have separate accounts for pension and dividends; however, if those funds are comingled in one account, one cannot document the source of the funds for each transaction.  

 

The deduction for 50% of expenses up to 100K for employment/pension income category 40 (1) in 1 (1)  does not apply to assessable income from dividends, so including dividend income there confounds the calculation of the deductible expenses in 1(5). 

Expand  

My response:

 

I take your point. I have spent this morning relisting all income from pension, and all income from dividends, although of course funds are co-mingled into one current account for withdrawal by the methods I use.

 

I can split off the pension in 40(1) only for the amount remitted, and will only put in the dividend portion in No.3 3 that I use in my remitted (by ATM, Debit Card, FPS QR) funds. It is not all of the dividends, so I am only going to show the proportion of the dividends that qualify. I cannot see how else to do it.

There is no requirement (yet) to show my worldwide dividends that are not remitted into Thailand. 

It seems fairly obvious that the tax forms need to be amended to take account the many variations of how remitted money is brought in, if that is the RD's intention. I'm not sure they really know what they want, judging by the lack of new forms and the variations in responses from RD officers and offices themselves. But here we are with 71 days to go until the deadline.

 

 

 

 

[Ricohoc]

4 hours ago, oldcpu said:

 

I think if you can show that money plausibly could have come from pre-1-Jan-2024 savings/income, then all is ok.  

 

 

Fortunately, I can show funds coming from pre-1-Jan-2024 savings for a dozen years.

 

After that, social security and deductions will take care of all the years after that if current laws remain the same; but I'm not counting on it.

[Mutt Daeng]

7 hours ago, samtam said:

@Mutt Daeng & @oldcpu are you suggesting that remitted income (by whatever means, ATM, Debit Card, FPS QR etc), should not be included as assessable income, even if these those "remittances" are derived from monies paid in the tax year 2024, such as UK State Pension in my case?

I draw on funds overseas via the "remittance" methods aforementioned, but as you note, there is no box to specify those remittances. I can use "pension" for the proportion I have "allocated", from that which I draw from co-mingled funds.

No. I'm not an expert but IMHO it's the source of the income that determines whether it is assessable or not and not the way it is remitted. AFAIK remittances from UK state pension are assessable income. The current forms have no provision to include non assessable income such as pensions from Govt service, such as local govt, military etc which is deemed non assessable and also there is nowhere to claim tax credits for other income which has already been taxed in your home country.

[samtam]

Can someone quickly point me in the direction of TEDA for single tax payers and married taxpayers, both over 65?

[KhunHeineken]

On 1/19/2025 at 12:26 PM, Mutt Daeng said:

I'm not an expert but IMHO it's the source of the income that determines whether it is assessable or not and not the way it is remitted.

+ 1

[essexman]

I paid my 2024 income tax this week.  I wanted a stress-free life here and decided to pay up.  I went to my local tax office last November for advice and to register for a TIN.  I should add here I get a company pension and a state pension paid directly into two Thailand banks.  I've lived here for fifteen years and have no bank accounts in the UK now.

I went back to the tax office on Wednesday armed with two bank statements for 2024, my passport and a photocopy of my wife's ID.  I dealt with a very nice lady who helped me fill out the form.  She added my pension payments together and then worked out my allowances.  The amount was a bit  less than I had worked out but I didn't mention it.  

I paid up, collected a receipt and walked out wondering what all the fuss was about.

 

[Jingthing]

3 minutes ago, essexman said:

I paid my 2024 income tax this week.  I wanted a stress-free life here and decided to pay up.  I went to my local tax office last November for advice and to register for a TIN.  I should add here I get a company pension and a state pension paid directly into two Thailand banks.  I've lived here for fifteen years and have no bank accounts in the UK now.

I went back to the tax office on Wednesday armed with two bank statements for 2024, my passport and a photocopy of my wife's ID.  I dealt with a very nice lady who helped me fill out the form.  She added my pension payments together and then worked out my allowances.  The amount was a bit  less than I had worked out but I didn't mention it.  

I paid up, collected a receipt and walked out wondering what all the fuss was about.

 

Hmm.

She added the two pensions together?

Isn't your state pension exempt under your DTA?

If so, she should have just used your company pension on the form.

[essexman]

5 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Hmm.

She added the two pensions together?

Isn't your state pension exempt under your DTA?

If so, she should have just used your company pension on the form.

I don't know all the different rules.  I'm classed as a non-resident, so not sure if that affects things.  At the end of the day, it was a very small amount I paid.  I spent more on two bicycle tyres yesterday.  Right, wrong or indifferent, I'm sorted for the coming year.

[Jingthing]

4 minutes ago, essexman said:

I don't know all the different rules.  I'm classed as a non-resident, so not sure if that affects things.  At the end of the day, it was a very small amount I paid.  I spent more on two bicycle tyres yesterday.  Right, wrong or indifferent, I'm sorted for the coming year.

Now you're making my brain hurt.

IF you were not a tax resident of Thailand during tax year 2024, then you didn't need a TIN and you didn't need to file at all. What office was that?  OK, so you probably meant a non resident of your home country. I don't think that changes the DTA rules on pension exemptions. 

[The Cyclist]

12 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Hmm.

She added the two pensions together?

Isn't your state pension exempt under your DTA?

If so, she should have just used your company pension on the form.

 

Both pensions above fall under Thai taxation.

 

The UK State Pension is not a Government Pension ( Despite it being paid by the Government via the DWP )

[Jingthing]

Just now, The Cyclist said:

 

Both pensions above fall under Thai taxation.

 

The UK State Pension is not a Government Pension ( Despite it being paid by the Government via the DWP )

OK, that does explain it. Thanks.

He probably was a tax resident of Thailand so in that case, it sounds legit.

[The Cyclist]

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Now you're making my brain hurt.

IF you were not a tax resident of Thailand during tax year 2024, then you didn't need a TIN and you didn't need to file at all. What office was that? 

 

Agreed.

 

I'm beginning to think that the only people who do not need to file are

 

Those that are Non Tax Residents

 

Those that do not remit any money.

 

Those that remit less than the 60 / 120 / 220k filing thresholds.

 

[Jingthing]

Just now, The Cyclist said:

 

Agreed.

 

I'm beginning to think that the only people who do not need to file are

 

Those that are Non Tax Residents

 

Those that do not remit any money.

 

Those that remit less than the 60 / 120 / 220k filing thresholds.

 

I don't agree. 

If you remit only non-accessible sourced income, and bank savings up to December 31, 2023, no need to file.  But keep records. 

[essexman]

18 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Now you're making my brain hurt.

IF you were not a tax resident of Thailand during tax year 2024, then you didn't need a TIN and you didn't need to file at all. What office was that?  OK, so you probably meant a non resident of your home country. I don't think that changes the DTA rules on pension exemptions. 

Sorry, I'm a UK non-resident.

 

[The Cyclist]

14 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I don't agree. 

If you remit only non-accessible sourced income, and bank savings up to December 31,

 

My bad. Yes, I forgot Pre 2024 savings.

 

The Jury is out with me on this non assessable thing.

 

I personally do not think this is correct. Time will tell on that one.

[Jingthing]

10 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

 

My bad. Yes, I forgot Pre 2024 savings.

 

The Jury is out with me on this non assessable thing.

 

I personally do not think this is correct. Time will tell on that one.

Well then they need to revise their forms then!

[The Cyclist]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

Well then they need to revise their forms then!

 

Possibly

 

Or as I have said previously, they might just produce a new form ( Lets call it a PND 92 ) for foreign tax residents.

 

Leave the current PND 90 / 91 for Thais and people who work legally in Thailand. There really is no need to update those 2 forms to deal with stuff that falls under DTA's etc.

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, The Cyclist said:

 

Possibly

 

Or as I have said previously, they might just produce a new form ( Lets call it a PND 92 ) for foreign tax residents.

 

Leave the current PND 90 / 91 for Thais and people who work legally in Thailand. There really is no need to update those 2 forms to deal with stuff that falls under DTA's etc.

A bit late to do that for THIS tax season. 

[The Cyclist]

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

A bit late to do that for THIS tax season. 

 

9 or 10 weeks to go 😀😀

[Jingthing]

Just now, The Cyclist said:

 

9 or 10 weeks to go 😀😀

Then they better hurry.

I rate it highly unlikely this season at all. 

[JimGant]

4 hours ago, essexman said:

She added my pension payments together and then worked out my allowances.  The amount was a bit  less than I had worked

You've got my curiosity up... What was the difference between her figures and deduction/allowance categories -- and yours? Thanx.

[OJAS]

On 12/18/2024 at 5:13 AM, Mutt Daeng said:

If a person simply has assessable income from pensions only, would PND91 be the correct form to submit?

 

On 12/18/2024 at 5:38 AM, chiang mai said:

I don't know for certain. Whilst logically speaking that would be correct, I'm not sure if the TRD would accept that, despite pension income being classed as Cat 1 income. I have a feeling that because the income is remitted from overseas, that may push it into the "other" income category and dictate that PND90 is used. It may be worth asking TRD, if you are able to visit. 

 

I strongly suspect that this may actually well depend on whether or not you're seeking the 190k discount for being aged 65+. I filed my return which consisted solely of assessable pension income (including the aged 65+ 190k discount) on a PND91 at my local tax office last Tuesday. However, after entering the info into their system they then presented me with a PND90 (+ Allowance(s) and Exemption(s) after Deduction of Expense(s) Attachment) version of my return as processed.

 

Accordingly, I believe the short answer to be that you need to file using the PND90 (+ Allowance(s) and Exemption(s) after Deduction of Expense(s) Attachment) if you're seeking the aged 65+ 190k discount, or the PND91 if you're not. 

[Mutt Daeng]

4 hours ago, OJAS said:

 

 

I strongly suspect that this may actually well depend on whether or not you're seeking the 190k discount for being aged 65+. I filed my return which consisted solely of assessable pension income (including the aged 65+ 190k discount) on a PND91 at my local tax office last Tuesday. However, after entering the info into their system they then presented me with a PND90 (+ Allowance(s) and Exemption(s) after Deduction of Expense(s) Attachment) version of my return as processed.

 

Accordingly, I believe the short answer to be that you need to file using the PND90 (+ Allowance(s) and Exemption(s) after Deduction of Expense(s) Attachment) if you're seeking the aged 65+ 190k discount, or the PND91 if you're not. 

I'm obviously missing something here, or having a senior moment. As far as I can tell, there is no reference to the 65+ 190K discount on form PND90 or on the AED attachment. It's only mentioned on the PND91. Can you clarify please @OJAS ?

[essexman]

6 hours ago, JimGant said:

You've got my curiosity up... What was the difference between her figures and deduction/allowance categories -- and yours? Thanx.

I didn't ask her.  It was less than I had worked out, not a huge amount I should add.  She was very helpful, filled out the form for me, put in the allowances then showed me a figure I needed to pay.  As it was less than I expected I happily signed and paid.  This was at the Jomtien tax office.

[KhunHeineken]

10 hours ago, essexman said:

I paid my 2024 income tax this week.  I wanted a stress-free life here and decided to pay up.  I went to my local tax office last November for advice and to register for a TIN.  I should add here I get a company pension and a state pension paid directly into two Thailand banks.  I've lived here for fifteen years and have no bank accounts in the UK now.

I went back to the tax office on Wednesday armed with two bank statements for 2024, my passport and a photocopy of my wife's ID.  I dealt with a very nice lady who helped me fill out the form.  She added my pension payments together and then worked out my allowances.  The amount was a bit  less than I had worked out but I didn't mention it.  

I paid up, collected a receipt and walked out wondering what all the fuss was about.

 

It has been discussed here that the Thai's may / will seek to "simplify" this tax policy. 

 

I put forward one way they may seek to do it and it is exactly how you describe in your experience. 

 

As I have said, assessable, non assessable, pre 2024 savings, DTA's blah blah blah, they will not care.  If you refuse, no visa extension.  Simple. 

 

What TRD office did you go to? 

[oldcpu]

26 minutes ago, Mutt Daeng said:

I'm obviously missing something here, or having a senior moment. As far as I can tell, there is no reference to the 65+ 190K discount on form PND90 or on the AED attachment. It's only mentioned on the PND91. Can you clarify please @OJAS ?

 

 

There is an English language tax guide associated with PID-90.

 

On page-2-4 of that it states: "A tax payer who is 65 years of age or older is entitled up to 190,000 baht exemption from his/her total income" ....   "If you are qualified for the exemption mentioned above, please fill out the "Income Exemption Entitlement Form" and deduct an exemption amount from income calculated in that form as your assessable income on ภ.ง.ด.90.

 

There is no  English language 2024 form that I could see ... so I will use the 2023 year form for this ...  I believe that "Income Exemption Form is here" (for 2023 ) : https://www.rd.go.th/fileadmin/download/english_form/2023/22036765year.pdf

 

So looking at the "Income Exemption Entitlement Form" in the middle of the page you select "Taxpayer ( ... ) 65 Years of Age or Older."

Then possibly under area "No.1 Assessable Income under section 40(1)(2) in box 5, you put in the 190,000 THB.

 

Note the bottom of that page under the "*" it states "Accumulated income exemption for .... taxpayer over 65 years old .... from all types of income must not exceed 190,000 baht."

 

NOTE:  I have never been legally required to fill in a Thai tax form.  I am simply curious - so please make your own assessment.  Or better yet, others who have already filled in such in the past please chime in.

 

I am NOT an expert. I am just a curious person (who is also over age-65).

 

[Mutt Daeng]

48 minutes ago, oldcpu said:

 

 

There is an English language tax guide associated with PID-90.

 

On page-2-4 of that it states: "A tax payer who is 65 years of age or older is entitled up to 190,000 baht exemption from his/her total income" ....   "If you are qualified for the exemption mentioned above, please fill out the "Income Exemption Entitlement Form" and deduct an exemption amount from income calculated in that form as your assessable income on ภ.ง.ด.90.

 

There is no  English language 2024 form that I could see ... so I will use the 2023 year form for this ...  I believe that "Income Exemption Form is here" (for 2023 ) : https://www.rd.go.th/fileadmin/download/english_form/2023/22036765year.pdf

 

So looking at the "Income Exemption Entitlement Form" in the middle of the page you select "Taxpayer ( ... ) 65 Years of Age or Older."

Then possibly under area "No.1 Assessable Income under section 40(1)(2) in box 5, you put in the 190,000 THB.

 

Note the bottom of that page under the "*" it states "Accumulated income exemption for .... taxpayer over 65 years old .... from all types of income must not exceed 190,000 baht."

 

NOTE:  I have never been legally required to fill in a Thai tax form.  I am simply curious - so please make your own assessment.  Or better yet, others who have already filled in such in the past please chime in.

 

I am NOT an expert. I am just a curious person (who is also over age-65).

 

Thanks for your reply @oldcpu. The EAD attachment form that I was referring to is not the same as the one you quote. I was referring to the EAD attachment form which is included in the download of 2023 PND90 English version, so thanks for bringing that to my attention. I'll look at the situation again tomorrow as it's after 6pm on a Saturday and time to open my first bottle of Chang. I also am NOT an expert. I am also just a curious person (who is also over age-65).