Chiang Mai's Choking Haze: You Won't BELIEVE What's Killing This Paradise

[VinnieK]

'Paradise' and 'CM' should never be mentioned in close proximity.

Enjoy the gas chamber...and the 40C.

Meanwhile, in the deep south...

[connda]

13 hours ago, NorthernRyland said:

Does anyone see any actual crops burning? I haven't seen one in months. All I see are forest fires which they are still lighting up to today.  I think the emphasis on crops is over stated and the bigger concern are hill tribes and other mountain people (Thai Yai/Burmese) who are up there foraging in the forests.

@george  NortherRyland has a point.  If you live out in rural Northern Thailand (Lamphun, Lampang, Chiang Rai, Chiang Mai, Mae Hong Son, etc) provinces and have any interaction with the locals, then you know the really ugly truth about the wide and pervasive burning of forest lands in the mountains surrounding Thai villages out here.  There are at least two major reasons Thai villagers burn - one is to clear forest undergrowth and stimulate the mycelium in the forest floors in order to gather Hep Thop mushroom (which can fetch prices upwards of 600 THB/kilogram or more) as well as other mushroom species. Drive down Highway 11 heading south between Lamphun and Lampang and you'll see bunches of roadside stands selling mushrooms.  That trade is built on the back of forest burning. The other reason is to gather red ant eggs for Kai Mot Dang salad.  The people gather red ant eggs kill two birds with one stone and just let their fire burn for reason number 1.  This is all economic.  Oh yeah - everyone in the village knows the forests are being burn, but nobody knows who is doing the burning.  "Shhhhh, be very very quite - shhhhhh!"

The Big Ag issue is also a real issue.  It depends where you live.  Yeah, in the rural villages everyone knows that they can't burn their fields at this time - get caught and get fined (sound of a hand being slapped with wet bamii noodles).  This comes down from the village heads and above.  But in places like Mae Hong Son where Big Ag hands out seeds and supplies so that local can plant corn on completely deforested mountains?   Perhaps a different story. 
"Car drive by.  Throw out cigarette. Whole mountain of corn stubble burn.  Not my fault."

Then you have to ask yourself why the Thai government allows entire mountainsides to be deforested for growing corn in the first place.

And we don't have sugarcane here yet, but given the talk between Thai ministers and Big Ag, they are rubbing their hands together in glee thinking of all the profits and revenues from growing more sugarcane to burn in cars. And with more sugarcane will come more crop burning at the Alter of Big Ag:  Privatize the profits; socialize the costs of health damage from killer PM 2.5 air pollution.

As others are pointing out though, right now?  Most of this is forest arson.  The government pays lip service year after year and on rare occasions arrests some patsy to show what a great job they are doing. But at the end of the day, there simply isn't any enforcement.  And there is no "teeth" in the law if someone is caught.  They are talking about throwing people in prison again for smoking ganja, but get caught burning forests and get a hand slap and perhaps publicly shamed.  No "teeth" in burning laws - well unless you are burning a joint if Srettha and friends have their way at the end of this year.  Burn a joint in 2025 and go to prison for a couple of years; burn down a forest?  <shrug>  So it never ends. 

 

 

Edited April 7 by connda

[retarius]

The big problem is that you need half a brain to realise that the pollution you generate burning your stupid corn fields, is a problem. 

[retarius]

2 hours ago, lordblackader said:

The whole article is nothing more than fantasy - the overwhelming majority of fires are forest fires, not farmers burning crops. 

 

https://fire.gistda.or.th/dashboard.html

Explain please how your link is the truth. What authority does it have? There are plenty of places in Thailand with no forest fires and thousands of acres of corn fields alight.

[retarius]

3 hours ago, stoner said:

 

Maybe they can borrow the sign near me...

Problem is you need half a brain and a sense of decency to dispose of your trash. 

[rumak]

13 hours ago, jvs said:

You can store this and post it again next year,and the next etc.

i have it stored from 2011 ......... the reruns are exactly the same 

 

btw:  i have been in the area ( includes CR and Lamphun) for 35 years .   Like everything, things have changed .   

Only thing i can think of thats better is the internet  🙂      What else could we do waiting out the bad months? 

Shoulda ............. moved South .   More humid and not quite as "charming"  as the North, though.

Edited April 7 by rumak

[NorthernRyland]

43 minutes ago, connda said:

The Big Ag issue is also a real issue.  It depends where you live.  Yeah, in the rural villages everyone knows that they can't burn their fields at this time - get caught and get fined (sound of a hand being slapped with wet bamii noodles).  This comes down from the village heads and above.  But in places like Mae Hong Son where Big Ag hands out seeds and supplies so that local can plant corn on completely deforested mountains?   Perhaps a different story. 
"Car drive by.  Throw out cigarette. Whole mountain of corn stubble burn.  Not my fault."

 

Here's video evidence of this by a random YouTuber. He says he needs to watch his property so it doesn't get burned by neighbors but they notify him first at least. He actually lives with the hill tribe there (outside of Mae Hong Son I think) and mentions they burn for hunting too. Everyone knows this and always have.

 

I challenge anyone to find an area with hill tribe that doesn't have burning along the road sides that goes up into the mountains. You will find their motorbikes parked by the side of the road too when they're back there foraging.

 

Any official in Chiang Mai running their mouth about the smoke problem can STFU because at this point they're probably just lying so they don't have to actually do anything about it.

 

 

[rumak]

Well............. the obvious question to the long term foreign residents here in CM is :    Since we see how the smog has

increased over the years ( with a very occasional exception) ,   WHEN will the hardcore expats living here finally make the move ?   I ALMOST made it a few years ago when we sold our rentals ,  seeing the hua hin and areas south of that as a

good choice.  And i have stayed there for a month each of the last 6 years .   

Anybody want to buy a 2 1/2  year old small house in Doi Saket area ?    🙂

 

So...... what is your MAIN reason for staying ?    And is it worth it ?

[NorthernRyland]

33 minutes ago, retarius said:

Explain please how your link is the truth. What authority does it have? There are plenty of places in Thailand with no forest fires and thousands of acres of corn fields alight.

The entire north is surrounded by mountains that extend deep into Myanmar and Laos and they're all on your fire. Smoke is the worst in the north.  You sound dismissive and angered by the assertion there could be some connection. Makes no sense...

[NorthernRyland]

3 minutes ago, rumak said:

seeing the hua hin and areas south of that as a

good choice.  And i have stayed there for a month each of the last 6 years .   

Anybody want to buy a 2 1/2  year old small house in Doi Saket area ?    🙂

 

So...... what is your MAIN reason for staying ?    And is it worth it ?

 

I just visited Hua Hin for 3 days to check it out and I didn't like it all. Ugly and congested streets like CM, miserable hot sticky weather and more expensive. Tourism was out of control too.  It was better more south but still really touristy (drunk weekend Thai tourists from BKK) and outside the beach resort areas it was pretty rundown and had Cambodia vibes (yuck).

 

I'm totally sick of Chiang Mai though, I would move tomorrow if my wife could leave her job. The city is overpopulated, ugly and hard to get around to do basic things. It was better in the past but it gets worse every year and is even a rip off compared to any other smaller cities in the north.

 

So why stay? Well CM sucks but the north of Thailand is so much nicer than the south. I love the mountains which I cycle in and I'm living in Samoeng as much as possible now for this reason. I think I'd rather just give up on Thailand if I had to live in the south but that's easier said than done. Isaan looks depressing too but I haven't explored there much.

[rumak]

12 hours ago, Baht Simpson said:

It's not just Chiang Mai, the whole of SE Asia is ablaze, and the Indian sub-continent. 

 

Here's the burning for the last 7 days.

 

Is there a link for easy access to this graphic on a daily basis ?

 

ALSO...... as NR  points out ... the whole friggin continent is on fire .   I have a few opinions ( not optimistic ones) regarding the possibility of this changing in my lifetime ( well, could get worse, ifs that even possible)

 

So.......... sometimes,  as a thai would say,  if you wanna be flee you gotta flee .   Go where the smoke don't rise

[motdaeng]

5 minutes ago, rumak said:

Is there a link for easy access to this graphic on a daily basis ?

 

https://firms.modaps.eosdis.nasa.gov/map/#d:2024-04-01..2024-04-07;@102.2,17.9,6.7z

[Northstar1]

13 hours ago, NorthernRyland said:

 I took this picture the other day to show to my wife as a good idea for her company to build. Thai people just don't care about public property. They made this nice place to put your trash and morons throw garbage outside it anyways. Every other bin around this reservoir is the same thing. Bins with trash strewn all over the place. These are university educated kids too. LOL.

 

The whole country is nothing but a garbage dump!

[rumak]

17 minutes ago, NorthernRyland said:

 

I just visited Hua Hin for 3 days to check it out and I didn't like it all. Ugly and congested streets like CM, miserable hot sticky weather and more expensive. Tourism was out of control too.  It was better more south but still really touristy (drunk weekend Thai tourists from BKK) and outside the beach resort areas it was pretty rundown and had Cambodia vibes (yuck).

 

I'm totally sick of Chiang Mai though, I would move tomorrow if my wife could leave her job. The city is overpopulated, ugly and hard to get around to do basic things. It was better in the past but it gets worse every year and is even a rip off compared to any other smaller cities in the north.

 

So why stay? Well CM sucks but the north of Thailand is so much nicer than the south. I love the mountains which I cycle in and I'm living in Samoeng as much as possible now for this reason. I think I'd rather just give up on Thailand if I had to live in the south but that's easier said than done. Isaan looks depressing too but I haven't explored there much.

Unless you have really big bucks.......... everything is a "trade-off"  nowadays . 

Personally i meet very few older farangs that seem to care much about their health (IMO) .   Little exercise and a diet 

that i can not handle . ( we won't get into that argument here   haha) .  

My point is ,  the North and even Central now has MONTHS of bad pollution .   Other months are really nice .  

The humidity near beach areas is not so pleasant .  But last month i sat out on a balcony mid day and the breeze was so nice .  You are right about Hua Hin .........but further South there are areas that are "quiet"  and have some good points.

Of course.... quieter places also are "boring"  for many .  And there are no Rimpings around  🙂 

Just got back three days ago .   Stuck inside with the air filters again !

Edited April 7 by rumak

[NorthernRyland]

27 minutes ago, rumak said:

 

Anybody want to buy a 2 1/2  year old small house in Doi Saket area ?    🙂

 

how much, what size house? I really dislike my wife's house in Mae Jo as it's near the highway but I don't think I can stomach the horrible little housing projects which are filling up CM at rapid speed. Getting an ok house now seems to costs minimum 3.5 mil, something you could build for far less on more land in any other city. Sorry for the negativity but I'm bitter with CM at the moment. 🙂

[rumak]

6 minutes ago, NorthernRyland said:

 

how much, what size house? I really dislike my wife's house in Mae Jo as it's near the highway but I don't think I can stomach the horrible little housing projects which are filling up CM at rapid speed. Getting an ok house now seems to costs minimum 3.5 mil, something you could build for far less on more land in any other city. Sorry for the negativity but I'm bitter with CM at the moment. 🙂

sending PM

Edited April 7 by rumak

[NorthernRyland]

5 minutes ago, rumak said:

The humidity near beach areas is not so pleasant .  But last month i sat out on a balcony mid day and the breeze was so nice .  You are right about Hua Hin .........but further South there are areas that are "quiet"  and have some good points.

Of course.... quieter places also are "boring"  for many .  And there are no Rimpings around  🙂 

 

 

The breeze is nice I grant it that. I'm going to continue exploring the south but I've not seen anything appealing yet. Honestly though I'd rather spend more time in the US but that's difficult too. You can still get an ok house in a cheap rural state in the US for like 150k. Sure the 5 mil baht CM house is bigger but Thai houses feel like prisons to me and property developers have captured the market so all houses going forward and in cramped projects where the US house will have some space.

 

For right now I'm going to build a house in the mountains  and get the F out of that city and that will give me clean air for the rest of the months (CM is always polluted unless immediately following a rain storm). When the smoke hits, the mountains are much worse than the city though so I need to find an escape. That doesn't solve the smoke problem but it solves the big city pollution, which I argue is a concern as well.

[Will B Good]

14 hours ago, NorthernRyland said:

Does anyone see any actual crops burning? I haven't seen one in months. All I see are forest fires which they are still lighting up to today.  I think the emphasis on crops is over stated and the bigger concern are hill tribes and other mountain people (Thai Yai/Burmese) who are up there foraging in the forests.

Where we are burning is always done at night....not for secrecy, they couldn't give a monkey's.....just less chance of wind blowing them out of control.

[NorthernRyland]

8 hours ago, Will B Good said:

Where we are burning is always done at night....not for secrecy, they couldn't give a monkey's.....just less chance of wind blowing them out of control.

Look at this video. Some guy burned his field and totally destroyed this property next to him. Madness they allow this to go on without more supervision.

[Northstar1]

Funny thing is, it’s the same people bitching about the smog every year, but they continue to live there!

quit the bitching and move!

problem solved!

[connda]

11 hours ago, NorthernRyland said:

I just visited Hua Hin for 3 days to check it out and I didn't like it all. Ugly and congested streets like CM, miserable hot sticky weather and more expensive.

Which is why the wife and I go to Cha-Am. 

[spidermike007]

There are so many solutions to this problem starting with enforcement against burning crops, and starting with enforcement against the sugar refiners for accepting burnt cane. However this will not happen because none of the authorities have the courage to stand up to Big Agra, they are all bought and paid for and they're willing to sacrifice the health of their people and the nation, for a little bit of cash from the golden calf. 

 

Sretta, you get a failing grade. You are a dismal leader. Woe is Thailand on your watch. 

[hotchilli]

On 4/6/2024 at 7:56 PM, george said:

Chiang Mai, Thailand: -- The name once conjured images of lush mountains, vibrant temples, and a laid-back atmosphere. Now, it's synonymous with another word: pollution. Every year, a toxic cloud descends upon the city, transforming it into a gasping, coughing mess.

An inept governor, selfish farmers and ignorant locals.... 

[koolkarl]

Go get a lung x ray if you need any convincing.  There is nothing worth staying in CM for. No family, no so called friends, no pet dog, nothing.  Only thing that matters is that you don't get cancer! And have to pay income tax on top of it with no health care provided by your friendly politicians.

[klauskunkel]

On 4/6/2024 at 7:56 PM, george said:

OPINION:

While I agree with all the points made in this opinion piece, I feel there is one more point obviously missing:

Lack of decisive government action

For over a decade every single government whether elected, appointed, military, civilian has failed to take on the "powerful agricultural businesses" who profit from this situation. Why is that? Cowardice, vested interest, laziness, ineptitude, or a combination thereof? Thailand, Tourism, Peoples' Health would all benefit from an independent, thorough and public investigation.

Edited April 8 by klauskunkel

[cowellandrew]

On 4/6/2024 at 3:02 PM, george said:

Right now:

 

I wish we had results like that and it might justify why we are being forced to install heat pumps and EV,s 

[Presnock]

Yessir!  CM every year is the same.  I can recall 50 years or so ago, flying up from BKK several times during the "burning" season, and was amazed at how I couldn't see the ground at all due to the smoke.  Now I own a house there and every year from about the end of February until the rains start hopefully in May, burning of fields and mountains is all we see.  But I don't recall so many medical reports actually being circulated about the resulting ailments from this pollution as it scares tourists away.  All one has to do is look at the fires in all of South Asia every year and people complaining about that pollution.  BUT, my daughter began college last year in BKK so we rented a condo for her near the college and we rent a house near the train enroute to the airport and live at the 3rd stop before the airport.  I do on a regular basis a 6 km walk trying to do so daily.  Since I did the same in CM, I bougt a 2.5 micron meter to see what the pollution was each day.  Since moving to BKK I note that less than 10% of the days even come close to the 25 WHO level of safety while some of the days are over a 100 but mostly in the 50-60 range.  Everyone needs to be aware of the pollution in S. Asia and take measures to avoid ailments caused by it.

N95 masks have been proven to block the 2.5 micron dust, air purifiers are available in many stores.  But the governments need to start working together to bring the farmers and big businesses together to stop the burning of the fields and forests and big $$$ penalties and jail time should be used to deter those that violate the burning laws.  If you don't blv me about the masks, google " masks and pollution".

[lordblackader]

23 hours ago, retarius said:

The big problem is that you need half a brain to realise that the pollution you generate burning your stupid corn fields, is a problem. 

And you need a brain because it's overwhelming forest fires, not corn. 

[rwill]

On 4/6/2024 at 7:56 PM, george said:

Don't think Chiang Mai's residents are taking this lying down. Angry protests, heart-wrenching petitions, and relentless social media campaigns are demanding change.

Protesting while garbage is burning in their yards.

[Will B Good]

14 hours ago, NorthernRyland said:

Look at this video. Some guy burned his field and totally destroyed this property next to him. Madness they allow this to go on without more supervision.

We last 20 small trees last year.....and the MIL lost 15 banana trees.....they don't give a flying....