House passes 95 billion aid package

[rexpotter]

 

Flags flutter as pro-Ukrainian supporters demonstrate outside the U.S. Capitol, April 20, 2024. REUTERS/Ken Cedeno

 

The unusual four-bill package also includes funds for Israel, security assistance for Taiwan and allies in the Indo-Pacific, and a measure that includes sanctions, a threat to ban the Chinese-owned social media app TikTok, and the potential transfer of seized Russian assets to Ukraine.

 

[mfd101]

 

The art of politics - and particularly of extremist politics - is the art of simplification, for an audience that can't cope with complexity.

[impulse]

3 hours ago, mfd101 said:

 

The art of politics - and particularly of extremist politics - is the art of simplification, for an audience that can't cope with complexity.

 

And leftist politics is the art of complicating simple truths when they don't go their way. 

 

Truths like Putin went on the march during Obama and Biden, but not during Trump.  Hamas attacked on Biden's watch.  Biden's watch saw 13 deaths on leaving Afghanistan.  The border is an absolute disaster under Biden.

 

Leave it to lefties to blame the other guy.  But sometimes a spade is just a spade.  And a leader is just incompetent.

 

[ChaiyaTH]

Insane like half their GDP in support again.

[mfd101]

3 minutes ago, impulse said:

And leftist politics is the art of complicating simple truths when they don't go their way. 

 

Truths like Putin went on the march during Obama and Biden, but not during Trump.  Hamas attacked on Biden's watch.  Biden's watch saw 13 deaths on leaving Afghanistan.  The border is an absolute disaster under Biden.

 

Leave it to lefties to blame the other guy.  But sometimes a spade is just a spade.  And a leader is just incompetent.

 

So you would argue: No support or funds for Ukraine or Israel?

[impulse]

25 minutes ago, mfd101 said:

So you would argue: No support or funds for Ukraine or Israel?

 

Ukraine has already lost.  I'd support loans for rebuilding, but not to continue the killing and the dying.

 

Israel has an intractable problem, and will still be intractable in 50 years, and 100 years.  If I were king of the world, I'd offer up an equivalent area in the US for any Israeli who wants to emigrate, hoping that other 1st world countries would match the offer.  Win-win, because Israelis in general are great candidates for US immigration with shared values (Judeo-Christian, well educated, with a good work ethic)  But then, I don't believe that any land is sacred beyond its natural beauty.  So that's a non-starter.

 

Otherwise, I have no opinion on funding Israel.

 

Edit:  But I would say that the USA is broke.  It's long past time we quit funding overseas folly, and spent the money at home.

 

Edited April 21 by impulse

[Robert Paulson]

Remember what they said when healthcare got brought up in the United States? “Where will we get the money”. 
 

if this stuff isn’t makimg sense yet you never gonna get it

[Robert Paulson]

11 minutes ago, mfd101 said:

So you would argue: No support or funds for Ukraine or Israel?

Can anyone name a single reason how a United States taxpayer would benefit from sending funds to Ukraine and Israel? There is no reason. It’s obviously a heist. This is what they do. I mean are we seriously going to argue that Americans would not benefit more from spending this money at home? That argument does not even exist! And yet people still buy into it. 

[Excogitator]

To any Americans opposed to aiding Ukraine.

 

Over 6000 Ukrainians performed military service in Iraq and Kuwait during the Iraq-war, including a permanent presence of 1,600, and 18 Ukrainians were killed.

 

Ukraine further aided the US by sending troops to Afghanistan, and was a patricipant in 'Operation Enduring Freedom'.

 

The very least the US could do in return for their sacrifice is to send them the aid, equipment, and munitions they need, as they are fighting for their survival.

 

Trump (and other maga-republicans) may have a habit of throwing their friends and allies under the bus, but that's NOT what America stands for.

[connda]

11 minutes ago, Excogitator said:

To any Americans opposed to aiding Ukraine.

 

Over 6000 Ukrainians performed military service in Iraq and Kuwait during the Iraq-war, including a permanent presence of 1,600, and 18 Ukrainians were killed.

 

Ukraine further aided the US by sending troops to Afghanistan, and was a patricipant in 'Operation Enduring Freedom'.

 

The very least the US could do in return for their sacrifice is to send them the aid, equipment, and munitions they need, as they are fighting for their survival.

 

Trump (and other maga-republicans) may have a habit of throwing their friends and allies under the bus, but that's NOT what America stands for.

Billions and billions and billions send overseas to "help Americas friends" to "battle the Axis of Evil."
Trillions of USD to bring Freedom And Democracy to Iraqi, Syria, and Afghanistan.

In the meanwhile back at in the Land of the Free and Home of the Brave

 

 

 

 

Thank you for your service US vets - now ****-off and die.
Sincerely yours,
The USA

[NanLaew]

1 hour ago, impulse said:

Ukraine has already lost.  I'd support loans for rebuilding, but not to continue the killing and the dying.

 

They have? I must have missed that apocryphal moment in the news. But if they had, you would happily donate funds to Putin's reconstruction re-occupation of Ukraine?

 

1 hour ago, impulse said:

Israel has an intractable problem, and will still be intractable in 50 years, and 100 years.  If I were king of the world, I'd offer up an equivalent area in the US for any Israeli who wants to emigrate, hoping that other 1st world countries would match the offer.  Win-win, because Israelis in general are great candidates for US immigration with shared values (Judeo-Christian, well educated, with a good work ethic)  But then, I don't believe that any land is sacred beyond its natural beauty.  So that's a non-starter.

 

Where do you suggest in the US? Louisiana? Alaska maybe? How about the whole California enchilada? At the moment, the Israeli's have a hard-fought homeland. I hardly think they're about to surrender that for some campsites in a patchwork of "other 1st world countries". But hey, the estimated 6 million Palestinian diaspora may be open for a sweet rental deal, but you would probably need to accept Hamas, Hezbollah and Quds as some of the tenants.

 

1 hour ago, Robert Paulson said:

Can anyone name a single reason how a United States taxpayer would benefit from sending funds to Ukraine and Israel? There is no reason. It’s obviously a heist. This is what they do. I mean are we seriously going to argue that Americans would not benefit more from spending this money at home? That argument does not even exist! And yet people still buy into it. 

 

For the same reason that the United States taxpayer funded the Allies in WWII.

 

There must be a lot of far-right Republican butt hurt in the House right now, especially after their leader got off the fence and allowed the bills for extended funding for Ukraine to pass easily with bipartisan support. The likes of MTG and others from the extreme right screaming about the Mexican border and 'but Biden' have thankfully lost their voice.

 

 

 

Edited April 21 by NanLaew

[Excogitator]

21 minutes ago, connda said:

Billions and billions and billions send overseas to "help Americas friends" to "battle the Axis of Evil."
Trillions of USD to bring Freedom And Democracy to Iraqi, Syria, and Afghanistan.

In the meanwhile back at in the Land of the Free and Home of the Brave

 

 

 

 

Thank you for your service US vets - now ****-off and die.
Sincerely yours,
The USA

There's no contradiction between helping Americas friends and allies, now fighting our common enemy, and helping veterans at home. Both can and must be done.

 

Many veterans are in dire need, and many because of physical and mental illness (PTSD). Now take a look at who are the most eager at defunding US healthcare and social security..(?) (Spoiler; it's NOT Biden)

Edited April 21 by Excogitator

[impulse]

22 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

Where do you suggest in the US? Louisiana? Alaska maybe? How about the whole California enchilada? At the moment, the Israeli's have a hard-fought homeland. I hardly think they're about to surrender that for some campsites in a patchwork of "other 1st world countries".

 

Area 51 is about the right size...  Maybe add some more of the western desert.  And they'd also be free in the USA to move, live and work wherever they want.  I'm not proposing a dedicated separate enclave.

 

What would Israel have without American taxpayer funding?  A completely unsustainable outpost in a hostile land.

 

Edit:  I'd add, How long do you think Israel would last if America got sucked into stupid wars in Europe and the Pacific?

 

Edited April 21 by impulse

[impulse]

18 minutes ago, Excogitator said:

There's no contradiction between helping Americas friends and allies, now fighting our common enemy, and helping veterans at home. Both can and must be done.

 

With what money?  We're $34.6 Trillion in debt.

 

[mania]

1 hour ago, Robert Paulson said:

Can anyone name a single reason how a United States taxpayer would benefit from sending funds to Ukraine and Israel? There is no reason. It’s obviously a heist. This is what they do. I mean are we seriously going to argue that Americans would not benefit more from spending this money at home? That argument does not even exist! And yet people still buy into it. 

 

Hear Hear ! 👏

[Presnock]

1 hour ago, impulse said:

 

Ukraine has already lost.  I'd support loans for rebuilding, but not to continue the killing and the dying.

 

Israel has an intractable problem, and will still be intractable in 50 years, and 100 years.  If I were king of the world, I'd offer up an equivalent area in the US for any Israeli who wants to emigrate, hoping that other 1st world countries would match the offer.  Win-win, because Israelis in general are great candidates for US immigration with shared values (Judeo-Christian, well educated, with a good work ethic)  But then, I don't believe that any land is sacred beyond its natural beauty.  So that's a non-starter.

 

Otherwise, I have no opinion on funding Israel.

 

Edit:  But I would say that the USA is broke.  It's long past time we quit funding overseas folly, and spent the money at home.

 

the problem "at home" now with the invasion from the south, tax collected fm citizens has to go to provide housing, schooling, food, etc for the illegal immigrants.  On top of that conside the threat of all the

young adult Chinese males pouring in from that open border too - and since their "asylum" hearing won't occur for years, they can travel within the US where ever they please.  When the CCP is ready, the 

US will be fighting within their own borders and with less that desired US troops.  Generations have changed but politicians still are useless, time to get some honesty and patriotism back in elected positions and not those selected by the $$$$ crowd.  My opinion anyway.  Monies for Ukraine are probably too late now anyway and I noticed an article that Putin is advertising for some more foreign troops so even

though they have been out numbered from the beginning, the Ukraineans have done wonders.  As for Israel, the Palestinians supporting and allowing Hamas to train and set up quarters in the Gaza area has been a festering sore forever and that seems to be why Israel will continue to use the October invasion of terrorists a stimulus to destroy them once and for all.  The Palestinians need to be assimulated into other Middle East Muslim countries and should have been last centurey.  All my opinion too.  I am not a Trumper nor Biden fan but think both will cause doom for USA and the world after November.

[Excogitator]

39 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

With what money?  We're $34.6 Trillion in debt.

 

Agreed that debt is too high, but that has been a problem for decades. It did not start when Putin invaded Ukraine.

 

One can't just close down and stop functioning as a nation because of high debt..

 

US debt-to-GDP-ratio is still lower than countries like Japan, Singapore and Italy.

 

Federal spending was up every year of Trump's term and has been down every year of Biden's term.

 

fiscaldata.treasury.gov/americas-finance-guide/federal-spending/

 

Trump’s tax cuts in 2017, estimated to cost $1.9tn over a decade, was a handout to the rich and corporations at the expense of working families. In fact U.S. billionaires got $1 trillion richer during trump’s term. At the same time, also under Trump, the national debt grew by 39.1%

 

Trump has already proven, beyond any doubt, that he is NOT the guy to solve any of these problems. In fact, the opposite is true.

Edited April 21 by Excogitator

[thaibeachlovers]

2 hours ago, mfd101 said:

So you would argue: No support or funds for Ukraine or Israel?

Not for war material.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, Excogitator said:

The very least the US could do in return for their sacrifice is to send them the aid, equipment, and munitions they need, as they are fighting for their survival.

IMO the only people that would need to leave the country to survive had the west not conned Zelensky would be Zelensky and his cabal in charge.

 

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, Excogitator said:

Trump (and other maga-republicans) may have a habit of throwing their friends and allies under the bus, but that's NOT what America stands for.

Tell that to the Kurds that Bush promised to support and then abandoned to Sadam.

[spidermike007]

2 hours ago, Robert Paulson said:

Can anyone name a single reason how a United States taxpayer would benefit from sending funds to Ukraine and Israel? There is no reason. It’s obviously a heist. This is what they do. I mean are we seriously going to argue that Americans would not benefit more from spending this money at home? That argument does not even exist! And yet people still buy into it. 

Israel has the single largest lobby within the US, and this one of the primary reasons why they continue to get funding. 

[impulse]

10 minutes ago, Excogitator said:

In fact U.S. billionaires got $1 trillion richer during trump’s term.

 

They're doing even better under Biden.

 

The super-rich are also richer than ever, with their combined wealth hitting $14.2 trillion—$2 trillion more than just a year ago and $1.1 trillion above the previous record, also set in 2021.

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/chasewithorn/2024/04/02/forbes-38th-annual-worlds-billionaires-list-facts-and-figures-2024/

[Excogitator]

1 minute ago, thaibeachlovers said:

IMO the only people that would need to leave the country to survive had the west not conned Zelensky would be Zelensky and his cabal in charge.

 

You sound like a russian propaganda-troll..

 

So, you are saying that when Russia, being the aggressor, invades a sovereign nation.. what the victim of said aggression must do is to yield to the invader and vacate their own country..?

[thaibeachlovers]

13 minutes ago, Presnock said:

The Palestinians need to be assimulated into other Middle East Muslim countries and should have been last centurey. 

How would you like it if some people in the UN decided that they needed your bit of land and that you should be sent to some country you don't have any connection to?

 

Do you think that because they are Arabs that they can just assimilate into a strange country as long as it's an Arab country? Nonsense.

 

They are the owners of their land, not the israelis, who are trying to steal as much of it as they can.

 

 

As for Palestinians, the israelis illegally occupying and stealing their land has been a festering sore forever

[thaibeachlovers]

9 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

Israel has the single largest lobby within the US, and this one of the primary reasons why they continue to get funding. 

Which IMO is why so many Americans despise Washington and all that live there. The whole lobbying business is a rort and stinks of corruption, IMO.

[impulse]

23 minutes ago, Excogitator said:

Federal spending was up every year of Trump's term and has been down every year of Biden's term.

 

That's a little disingenuous.  Before Covid, spending was $5.31T under Trump.  Admittedly, it did take off for Covid relief programs.  In 2023, in spite of going down as Covid relief expires, it's at $6.13T under Biden.  And it's up by $103B over the same period from 2023 to 2024, on track to be at $6.33T for the year.

 

That data came from your link...

 

 

Edited April 21 by impulse

[Walker88]

2 hours ago, impulse said:

 

And leftist politics is the art of complicating simple truths when they don't go their way. 

 

Truths like Putin went on the march during Obama and Biden, but not during Trump.  Hamas attacked on Biden's watch.  Biden's watch saw 13 deaths on leaving Afghanistan.  The border is an absolute disaster under Biden.

 

Leave it to lefties to blame the other guy.  But sometimes a spade is just a spade.  And a leader is just incompetent.

 

trumpism is when correlation absolutely equals causation, such as how putin didn't invade Ukraine when his lapdog trump was in office, or how a trump loss in an election means it must have been stolen.

 

It isn't 'lefties' blaming the other guy, it's trump and trumpers. Not once has trump ever accepted responsibility for anything negative, and despite leaving Biden 6.8% UE and a Recession, trump tried to take credit for the massive job creation and record low UE under Biden, plus the strongest economic growth since the late 1990's under Clinton.

 

trump's siren song to his goobers is based on telling them their abject failure at life isn't their fault. He gives them "others" to blame, a tactic straight out of the autocrat's playbook.

 

I agree sometimes a spade is just a spade and a leader is just incompetent. To take the low UE of Obama plus the growth of Obama and turn it into 6.8% UE and a Recession, all while increasing the accumulated 240 years of National Debt by a whopping 41%, as trump did, is incompetence on a scale that makes Herbert Hoover look good.

[Excogitator]

11 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

They're doing even better under Biden.

 

The super-rich are also richer than ever, with their combined wealth hitting $14.2 trillion—$2 trillion more than just a year ago and $1.1 trillion above the previous record, also set in 2021.

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/chasewithorn/2024/04/02/forbes-38th-annual-worlds-billionaires-list-facts-and-figures-2024/

That has a lot to do with the booming stockmarket and strong economic growth under Biden. Biden, unlike Trump, has not gone out of his way to cut their taxes...

[Walker88]

23 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Not for war material.

So the Ukrainians should just let the russians bomb their schools and hospitals and not fight back? Let russia slaughter their people and take their country? That sounds both cowardly and stupid.

 

The Ukrainians have showed immense courage in the face of heinous aggression by putin. Like many, likely most Americans, I have no problem with my tax dollars going to support Ukraine's fight against aggression.

[Skeptic7]

I'd certainly participate in a 3-way...err, summit...with Ukraine and Israel❗🤣