Frozen pension policy turns British expat's dream into a nightmare

[Phulublub]

1 hour ago, MangoKorat said:

leave and enter the UK by the back door

What - and make yourself an illegal immigrant???!!!

 

PH

[MangoKorat]

18 minutes ago, transam said:

Well, every Gov. of every persuasion has been the same, so I don't think a fiddle, it is their common ground........🤗

Yes well they need it........they have to fund the ridiculous amounts of taxpayer's money they waste - often without any benefit to or with the knowledge of those taxpayers.

 

A couple of examples:

 

The Rwanda relocation scheme is reported to have cost £500 million so far and is not yet actually working and its unlikely to too.

 

Lesser known: Boris Johnson spent £53 million on his 'Garden Bridge' scheme. The bridge was never built. That figure included £161,000 on a website and £470,000 on a Gala Dinner to announce the scheme. £43 million of that came from the taxpayers - its unclear where the other £10 miillion came from.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-47228698

 

That's just 2 examples, there will be thousands. They should be made to publicise every major spend they make.

 

You could say that we vote for these people but how many of them include these things in their Manifesto's?

Edited April 30 by MangoKorat

[MangoKorat]

3 minutes ago, Phulublub said:

What - and make yourself an illegal immigrant???!!!

 

PH

Not at all.  It is entirely possible to leave and enter the UK without needing to go though Passport Control.  A person born in the UK of British parents can never be an illegal immigrant.

[transam]

2 minutes ago, MangoKorat said:

Yes well they need it........they have to fund the ridiculous amounts of taxpayer's money they waste - often without any benefit to or with the knowledge of those taxpayers.

 

A couple of examples:

 

The Rwanda relocation scheme is reported to have cost £500 million so far and is not yet actually working and its unlikely to too.

 

Lesser known: Boris Johnson spent £53 million on his 'Garden Bridge' scheme. The bridge was never built. That figure included £161,000 on a website and £470,000 on a Gala Dinner announce the scheme. £43 million of that came from the taxpayers - its unclear where the other £10 miillion came from.

 

That's just 2 examples, there will be thousands. They should be made to publicise every major spend they make.

 

You could say that we vote for these people but how many of them include these things in their Manifesto's?

All that is peanuts, if all us expats went to a country on their list, we would all get paid an up to date pension.......... Fact.....🤗

[MangoKorat]

2 minutes ago, transam said:

All that is peanuts, if all us expats went to a country on their list, we would all get paid an up to date pension.......... Fact.....🤗

It is also probably 'peanuts' compared to the other money they waste without our knowledge.

Edited April 30 by MangoKorat

[sambum]

On 4/29/2024 at 2:49 PM, PeeJayEm said:

1946

 

Where did you get that date from? I've been trawling many sites, and can't seem to get anyone to tie it down to a particular time or ruling.

 

The best I have come up with is "70 years" or  "more than 70 years"

 

Thanks in advance!

[transam]

5 minutes ago, sambum said:

 

Where did you get that date from? I've been trawling many sites, and can't seem to get anyone to tie it down to a particular time or ruling.

 

The best I have come up with is "70 years" or  "more than 70 years"

 

Thanks in advance!

State Pension, 1948...

 

https://ifs.org.uk/publications/history-state-pensions-uk-1948-2010

[Phulublub]

29 minutes ago, MangoKorat said:

Not at all.  It is entirely possible to leave and enter the UK without needing to go though Passport Control.  A person born in the UK of British parents can never be an illegal immigrant.

If you have the means to bypass passport control, then you should not be at all concerend about the lack of additional few ££ from annual state pension increases!

 

PH

[jaideedave]

On 4/27/2024 at 8:50 AM, BerndD said:

As a German, I receive my pension in my Thai bank account, usually 3-4 days earlier than pensioners in Germany. In July 2024, like every other pension recipient, I will receive a pension increase of 4.57%. If I die, my Thai wife can receive a widow's pension from the German state equal to 40% of my pension. Requirement: the widow must be at least 46 years old and the marriage must have lasted, I believe, for 6 years.

 

There are no restrictions on pension receipt for Germans who live abroad permanently.

Similar to my Cdn pension. My Thai wife will receive 37.5% of one of my pensions.Aged 45+....but taxable income. There are provisions to have the tax liability waved but you must apply.At todays ex-rate about 11-15k/month. Not much but house etc paid up.

[sambum]

8 minutes ago, transam said:

State Pension, 1948...

 

https://ifs.org.uk/publications/history-state-pensions-uk-1948-2010

Thank you for that - it states that the inception of the Basic Pension was in 1948, , but I was looking for something that specifically mentions the fact that pensions for ex pats were frozen.

Somebody else mentioned 1946, but I find that doubtful if, as you pointed out, the Pension Scheme didn't start until 1948!

[scottiejohn]

2 hours ago, MangoKorat said:

leave and enter the UK by the back door when I return to visit family etc

Where is the UK back door?

[proton]

8 minutes ago, scottiejohn said:

Where is the UK back door?

 

Dover beach

[scottiejohn]

29 minutes ago, proton said:

 

Dover beach

Whilst I agree that Dover Beach is an open door with many benefits for some, I would love to know which  "Back Door"  @MangoKorat is referring to!

 

Edited April 30 by scottiejohn
spelling

[MangoKorat]

1 hour ago, Phulublub said:

If you have the means to bypass passport control, then you should not be at all concerend about the lack of additional few ££ from annual state pension increases!

 

PH

Why?  You don't bypass Passport Control, provided you don't travel by air, there isn't one - not as such.  That does not mean there are no checks whatsoever. The last time I travelled, I simply drove off the ferry.  There were people standing around with uniforms on who might have checked the odd car or passenger but there is no requirement for a British Citizen to use their passport to travel there.  Crossing the next border into the EU is a simple drive down a motorway.

 

I have heard that in the past, there have been checks on the roads due to security alerts.

Edited April 30 by MangoKorat

[MangoKorat]

1 hour ago, scottiejohn said:

Whilst I agree that Dover Beach is an open door with many benefits for some, I would love to know which  "Back Door"  @MangoKorat is referring to!

 

Guys, its not a secret.

 

A British Citizen can travel to Northern Ireland without a passport.  Some airlines want a passport - some will accept another form of photo ID.  I travelled there in 2015 by car/ferry and wasn't asked for any ID at all.

 

From Northern Ireland you can then travel to the South and not pass through a border. There is no requirement for a British Citizen to use a passport to travel to Ireland (Eire) as its part of the Commom Travel Area. Onwards to your destination through Dublin Airport where the passport authority is Irish and not UK.

 

Note that if you travel directly (as in not through Northern Ireland) between the UK and Ireland by air or sea, if you are a British Citizen your carrier will require photo ID - what that is is up to them and I believe that most WILL require a passport.

 

Both UK and Irish passport authorities maintain border control through their external borders - external to The Common Travel Area.  You cannot travel into either the UK or Ireland from outside the Common Travel Area without a passport. So its not a route that illegal immigrants can use.

 

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/government-in-ireland/ireland-and-the-uk/common-travel-area-between-ireland-and-the-uk/

Edited April 30 by MangoKorat

[proton]

1 hour ago, sambum said:

Thank you for that - it states that the inception of the Basic Pension was in 1948, , but I was looking for something that specifically mentions the fact that pensions for ex pats were frozen.

Somebody else mentioned 1946, but I find that doubtful if, as you pointed out, the Pension Scheme didn't start until 1948!

 

Key facts. The 'Old Age Pension' was introduced in the UK in January 1909. A pension of 5 shillings per week, or 7 shillings and sixpence for a married couple, was payable to a person with an income below £21 a year. The original state pension qualifying age was 70, and was subject to a means test..

[VBF]

3 hours ago, MangoKorat said:

All that was taken care of a long time ago. My tenant does not have a current agreement.  That apartment has always been an 'insurance policy' for me and if I was staying in the UK, I would be moving there when I retire.

 

Think of it like this - I currently live in a tourist area of the UK and a couple of weeks ago I spoke to a couple who were in a camper van in a local car park.  We get literally hundreds of them every year and their season seems to get longer and longer.  This couple told me that since they retired, they've spent every year travelling around the entire UK with a few visits to Europe.

 

Provided they didn't have access to my passport details, how would anyone know my whereabouts and that I was any different to the couple I mention above?

 

Travel and passport details can be shared between countries but as far as I know, other that names on 'arrest lists' cropping up or a court request, there is no routine sharing of travel details in that way. 

 

The main thing here is not to raise any suspicions in the first place - therefore not triggering any more detailed investigations.  I very much doubt that HMRC simply go though pensioner's details randomly and think..........hmm let's check if that pesky pensioner is really living in the UK.  You would need to do something to raise that suspicion in the first place.

 

You might not be aware but HMRC are having serious staffing problems at the moment -as has been reported in the national news.  I don't think their main attention is focused on pensioners.

Well so far you've avoided being caught out, mainly as you say, due to HMRC and the like being short staffed.

BUT whenever you enter UK "they" do have access to your passport - remember scanning it at the airport?

(Unless your "back door" avoids that, in which case I'm either calling BS, or suggesting you're making yourself vulnerable on another front)

 

So if they were to suspect anything amiss, HMRC, DWP and Home Office can and almost certainly do exchange information.

Plus if an investigation is opened they can apply for access to your bank account(s) credit card(s), Council Tax records (to which you alluded earlier) etc etc.

 

So what you're really saying is you know you're breaking the rules but are gaming the system, so far successfully.

Good luck to you  but IMO, you're riding for a fall that might just come out of the blue one day and bite you in the nether regions (pardon my mixed metaphors)

 

My only other comment is I hope you don't fall foul of HMRC - I got investigated some years ago for no fault of my own, and eventually exonerated...but it took 2 years of arguments and digging up records, letter writing, accountant conversations  that I wouldn't wish on anyone.

 

Sweet dreams!  '🙄😎

 

[MangoKorat]

4 minutes ago, VBF said:

Well so far you've avoided being caught out, mainly as you say, due to HMRC and the like being short staffed.

BUT whenever you enter UK "they" do have access to your passport - remember scanning it at the airport?

(Unless your "back door" avoids that, in which case I'm either calling BS, or suggesting you're making yourself vulnerable on another front)

 

So if they were to suspect anything amiss, HMRC, DWP and Home Office can and almost certainly do exchange information.

Plus if an investigation is opened they can apply for access to your bank account(s) credit card(s), Council Tax records (to which you alluded earlier) etc etc.

 

So what you're really saying is you know you're breaking the rules but are gaming the system, so far successfully.

Good luck to you  but IMO, you're riding for a fall that might just come out of the blue one day and bite you in the nether regions (pardon my mixed metaphors)

 

My only other comment is I hope you don't fall foul of HMRC - I got investigated some years ago for no fault of my own, and eventually exonerated...but it took 2 years of arguments and digging up records, letter writing, accountant conversations  that I wouldn't wish on anyone.

 

Sweet dreams!  '🙄😎

 

You clearly failed to read my post detailing the 'back door'.

 

You also failed to spot, im several posts, that I have not retired yet and therefore haven't broken any rules.

 

Further, I am aware of the powers available to HMRC, I also had a tax investigation a few years back - which resulted in no further action.

[scottiejohn]

1 hour ago, VBF said:

So what you're really saying is you know you're breaking the rules but are gaming the system, so far successfully.

Good luck to you  but IMO, you're riding for a fall that might just come out of the blue one day and bite you in the nether regions (pardon my mixed metaphors)

+1

[scottiejohn]

4 hours ago, VBF said:

The fact that you rent the apartment out on a long term basis pretty much shows that you do not live there.

What is to say that he is NOT renting out all of the apartment/building but just some rooms and that he lives in the other apartments/rooms in the building which he owns?

 

 

 

 

Edited April 30 by scottiejohn

[AreYouGerman]

Deport them.

[BigBruv]

1 hour ago, VBF said:

 

So if they were to suspect anything amiss, HMRC, DWP and Home Office can and almost certainly do exchange information.

Plus if an investigation is opened they can apply for access to your bank account(s) credit card(s), Council Tax records (to which you alluded earlier) etc etc.

 

So what you're really saying is you know you're breaking the rules but are gaming the system, so far successfully.

 

 

They'll probably be fine until the systems are automated - probably at least 5-10 years yet so no worries.

 

If you've ever met people who work in the UK pub sec (inc. the police) you'll be aware that most of them are not exactly bright or motivated hence rule swervers will be fine for the forseeable.

[AreYouGerman]

On 4/29/2024 at 12:47 PM, MangoKorat said:

Not sure which other countries have State Pension Schemes - it would be interesting to hear from those who's countries do have them - as to whether they can receive their full pension if they move abroad.

 

Germany allows it, but it's taxed in Germany unless a DTA is in place and covers the pensions. Then you could pay taxes on your pension in the country you live instead of Germany which could lead to a reduction in taxes. It's very specific but it could be that Germans who choose to be taxed under the new Thai taxation rule could save a lot of taxes.

 

Also Germany has like a 'base pension' system every German or immigrant and his family gets, it's around 500 EUR a month + apartment rent + health insurance. As a German you can only receive it if you are living Germany, if you are an immigrant, you just take it and live in your home country.

[scottiejohn]

44 minutes ago, BigBruv said:

 

They'll probably be fine until the systems are automated - probably at least 5-10 years yet so no worries.

 

If you've ever met people who work in the UK pub sec (inc. the police) you'll be aware that most of them are not exactly bright or motivated hence rule swervers will be fine for the forseeable.

I assume that you were one of them that worked "in the UK pub sec (inc. the police)"

[VBF]

2 hours ago, MangoKorat said:

You clearly failed to read my post detailing the 'back door'.

 

You also failed to spot, im several posts, that I have not retired yet and therefore haven't broken any rules.

 

Further, I am aware of the powers available to HMRC, I also had a tax investigation a few years back - which resulted in no further action.

So this whole conversation is hypothetical.  (Always was for me!)

That's that then.

[MangoKorat]

6 minutes ago, VBF said:

So this whole conversation is hypothetical.  (Always was for me!)

That's that then.

Well not exactly.  I know of a few, including at least one member of this site, that already do exactly as I have suggested. Its not my idea.

 

The UK government make a lot of their own problems - like massive amounts of duty on some things that creates a black market in those products.

Edited April 30 by MangoKorat

[VBF]

Just now, MangoKorat said:

Well not exactly.  I know of a few, including at least one member of this site, that already do exactly as I have suggested. Its not my idea.

I meant for both you and me....

[BigBruv]

9 minutes ago, scottiejohn said:

I assume that you were one of them that worked "in the UK pub sec (inc. the police)"

 

No, I'd never stoop that low.

UK pub sec is where the job centre sends you to work once they've worked out NO ONE in the private sector can make use of you (though YOU'd know that).

Pub Sec is basically daycare for retarded adults.

[sambum]

2 hours ago, proton said:

 

Key facts. The 'Old Age Pension' was introduced in the UK in January 1909. A pension of 5 shillings per week, or 7 shillings and sixpence for a married couple, was payable to a person with an income below £21 a year. The original state pension qualifying age was 70, and was subject to a means test..

 

Once again thank you - but do you know when the "freezing" of annual pension increments for ex pats was introduced?

[vinny41]

1 hour ago, sambum said:

 

Once again thank you - but do you know when the "freezing" of annual pension increments for ex pats was introduced?

 When the rate of pension was increased in 1946, the increase was not paid to pensioners abroad.

http://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN01457/SN01457.pdf