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Ireland's Profound Support for Palestine: A Historical and Political Analysis


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look at the photo... hardly any red haired irish citizen, more import culture

 

palestine / israel ... well it is the british empire that started this mess more then 100 years ago in the region

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5 minutes ago, john donson said:

look at the photo... hardly any red haired irish citizen, more import culture

 

palestine / israel ... well it is the british empire that started this mess more then 100 years ago in the region

Rather pointless trying to argue anything as complex as this, based on a single photograph, don't you think? (Although, only from a quick look, I saw at least 5 redheads..)

 

There is overwhelming support in the world, including in most Western countries, for a Palestinian state, as well as sympathy for the plight of the Palestinian people.

 

True, the British (and other empires) braindead actions and decisions, created enormous problems and suffering, then and later, in the world, not only in the Middle East, but also in most of the Global South. Just take a look at Africa, for instance, how they simply took a pen a ruler, and 'divided it up' into 'countries', irrespective of thousands of years old local history, traditions, tribal cultures etc..

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31 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

I guess they don't see the sad irony that their previous Taoseach (sp) would have been killed the second he set foot in Gaza or the west bank...

 

Or maybe they recognise that the first step to becoming an inclusive society is to become a free society? It is barely 30 years since same-sex activity was decriminalised in Ireland - the west might be leading the way in that respect but this is a relatively new phenomenon. 

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44 minutes ago, ChicagoExpat said:

This really needs to be qualified.  I too think that someday there should be a Palestinian state but also believe that now is 100% NOT the time to do it.  It DOES reward Hamas -- saying anything else is an obvious untruth, and practically speaking... there's nothing to recognize.  Who would run this "state", where the controllers of half the territory are corrupt, incompetent and ineffectual and controllers of the other half are quite literally bloodthirsty murderers (who wiped out representatives of Fatah in a brutal purge)?  It's sadly hilarious that pretty much EVERYTHING Hamas stands for, and SO MUCH Palestinians would choose to make the law of their land, would be anathema to Irish and EU values.

You are looking at this the wrong way. Hamas raison d'etre is based on Israel's decades long oppression of the Palestinian people, denying them their own state, and a life in dignity, peace and prosperity. If the Palestinian people had all this, there would be no reason for Hamas to even exist.

 

Anyone who cares enough about the peoples of Israel, Palestine and peace in the Middle East, knows that a two state solution is the only way forwards.

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46 minutes ago, Excogitator said:

You are looking at this the wrong way. Hamas raison d'etre is based on Israel's decades long oppression of the Palestinian people, denying them their own state, and a life in dignity, peace and prosperity. If the Palestinian people had all this, there would be no reason for Hamas to even exist.

 

Anyone who cares enough about the peoples of Israel, Palestine and peace in the Middle East, knows that a two state solution is the only way forwards.

1) The terror problem/Palestinian propensity for terrorism long predated Hamas.  It existed even when things were very hopeful, when there was literally no border or restrictions on Palestinians from both Gaza and the West Bank to enter Israel, and when Israelis made multiple offers to create a state.  2) You can't move forward to create an ideal world when a huge cancer prevents that dream from becoming reality -- and that cancer is not just hardened Israeli attitudes.  Far worse, or at a minimum equally worse, are Palestinian attitudes, Hamas, and Hamas' patron, Iran.

 

So I would suggest you're looking at it this the wrong way, and from a way so imbalanced it prevents you from seeing the situation clearly.  There are many, many factors in this -- and the best thing an educated person could say about characterizing this solely as "Israel's decades long oppression of the Palestinian people, denying them their own state, and a life in dignity, peace and prosperity" is, it's wildly inaccurate and incomplete.

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15 minutes ago, FruitPudding said:

The West supporting Islamic extremists is just about the dumbest thing I've seen in my lifetime. 

 

Darwin's theory is going strong.

Well it’s an assertion that is about the dumbest departure from reality.

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1 hour ago, Hanaguma said:

Nope. Hamas' raison d'etre is to kill every Jew in the world and convert the planet to Islam.  Killing anyone along the way who disagrees.  They don't give a rat's a55 about oppression or dignity or peace.  

An extremely simple-minded view and outlook, completely of touch..

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1 hour ago, ChicagoExpat said:

1) The terror problem/Palestinian propensity for terrorism long predated Hamas.  It existed even when things were very hopeful, when there was literally no border or restrictions on Palestinians from both Gaza and the West Bank to enter Israel, and when Israelis made multiple offers to create a state.  2) You can't move forward to create an ideal world when a huge cancer prevents that dream from becoming reality -- and that cancer is not just hardened Israeli attitudes.  Far worse, or at a minimum equally worse, are Palestinian attitudes, Hamas, and Hamas' patron, Iran.

 

So I would suggest you're looking at it this the wrong way, and from a way so imbalanced it prevents you from seeing the situation clearly.  There are many, many factors in this -- and the best thing an educated person could say about characterizing this solely as "Israel's decades long oppression of the Palestinian people, denying them their own state, and a life in dignity, peace and prosperity" is, it's wildly inaccurate and incomplete.

Imbalanced is pointing your finger in only one direction, which is what you, and some other posters in here do; Palestinians/Muslims = bad, Israel = good..

 

There are extremists on both sides, ruining it for the vast majority, who only want to live their lives in peace 

 

In 1993 there was a real chance of lasting peace, the Oslo-agreement, which netanyahoo and his ilk successfully sabotaged, leading all the way up till todays war..

 

I maintain that if the Palestinians were allowed to live lives in peace, dignity and prosperity, Hamas would have no reason to exist..

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Posted (edited)
31 minutes ago, ChicagoExpat said:

Ah, that's literally NOT what I did and I LITERALLY SAID, several times, that the situation is complex and many factors -- INCLUDING Israelis and their attitudes -- were the issue.

 

Look, man, if you're going to argue with me, please don't flat out lie.  Which is really dumb because anyone can read what I wrote.

 

>>I too think that someday there should be a Palestinian state...and that cancer is not just hardened Israeli attitudes.  Far worse, or at a minimum equally worse, are Palestinian attitudes, Hamas, and Hamas' patron, Iran.

You are the only one arguing here.. and I don't waste my time on brainwashed fanatics.

 

Either you get it,  or you don't.

You don't.

And that's your loss..

 

Edited by Excogitator
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3 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

 

Or maybe they recognise that the first step to becoming an inclusive society is to become a free society? It is barely 30 years since same-sex activity was decriminalised in Ireland - the west might be leading the way in that respect but this is a relatively new phenomenon. 

If they believe installing Hamas as an internationally recognized government will lead to such things as liberal Western social values... well, it's hard to know what to say about that.

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