How will it end?

[thaibeachlovers]

3 hours ago, ChicagoExpat said:

For all of their many shortcomings, Western countries are the only places any of us choose to live in.

Western countries are the only places any of us choose to live in.

 

Do try and get it right. Some of us ( quite a lot actually ) choose to live in Thailand, and the last time I looked it's not a western country. Not only that, it doesn't support the proxy war in Ukraine.

[ChicagoExpat]

1 hour ago, BobBKK said:

Stalking is against forum rules. Ukraine is a proxy war for the USA and you know it.

The back and forth of posting isn't "stalking".  It's posting.  It's what a forum like this is about.  You respond to ALL of my posts.  Are you "stalking" me?  What a crybaby.

 

You don't understand what a proxy war is.  Russia started this war, Russia can end this war anytime it wants by withdrawing to its own lawful borders.  If Ukraine has friends that help it out, you can't cry about it.

 

Stop shilling for Russia.

[ChicagoExpat]

57 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Western countries are the only places any of us choose to live in.

 

Do try and get it right. Some of us ( quite a lot actually ) choose to live in Thailand, and the last time I looked it's not a western country. Not only that, it doesn't support the proxy war in Ukraine.

Actually, you're right on this, and I erred in how I made my point.  But you understand my point.  Which is that the posters that constantly advocate for Russia and its pals never choose to live under those regimes.  But you knew that, my clumsiness not withstanding.

Edited Tuesday at 06:05 AM by ChicagoExpat

[BobBKK]

10 minutes ago, ChicagoExpat said:

The back and forth of posting isn't "stalking".  It's posting.  It's what a forum like this is about.  You respond to ALL of my posts.  Are you "stalking" me?  What a crybaby.

 

You don't understand what a proxy war is.  Russia started this war, Russia can end this war anytime it wants by withdrawing to its own lawful borders.  If Ukraine has friends that help it out, you can't cry about it.

 

Stop shilling for Russia.

 
I am very clear what a proxy war is - you are blind. Whatever negotiations will happen after Trump wins - Ukraine will give up land - game over.

[ChicagoExpat]

5 minutes ago, BobBKK said:

 
I am very clear what a proxy war is - you are blind. Whatever negotiations will happen after Trump wins - Ukraine will give up land - game over.

Bob, there you go again with the ad hominem attacks.  I'm really disappointed you would stoop to this kind of namecalling, a short time after asking for respectful dialogue.

[BobBKK]

3 minutes ago, ChicagoExpat said:

Bob, there you go again with the ad hominem attacks.  I'm really disappointed you would stoop to this kind of namecalling, a short time after asking for respectful dialogue.

What do you mean? What name-calling? You are blind to the issue; it is not name-calling but a metaphor. You don't know what respectful dialogue means. Trolling but I won't bite - thank you.

[ChicagoExpat]

2 hours ago, BobBKK said:

 He advocates for peace and not throwing your country's money away for nothing. In this respect Trump makes sense and I hope he wins over senile Biden.

I will, as always, point out that supporting the aggressor in a transparently unjust war is not supporting "peace".  And if Russia is not defeated, the extent to which it is bled is the extent to which its next war is postponed.  If that happens after Putin is gone, perhaps a successor will not be as insistent on building the Empire.

[ChicagoExpat]

2 minutes ago, BobBKK said:

What do you mean? What name-calling? You are blind to the issue; it is not name-calling but a metaphor. You don't know what respectful dialogue means. Trolling but I won't bite - thank you.

You called me "blind."  With no nuance.  That was not respectful dialogue.

 

Bob, you keep finding new ways to demonstrate hypocrisy.

[NativeBob]

8 minutes ago, BobBKK said:

I am very clear what a proxy war is - you are blind. Whatever negotiations will happen after Trump wins - Ukraine will give up land - game over.

Trump personally will avenge el'Presidente Ze for refusal of "small favor" about hunter B. back than. So obviously not good scenario. Biden will continue cash-in until there would be none to fight.

I assume that Biden's family is now more wealthy than Trumps. 

[BobBKK]

13 minutes ago, NativeBob said:

Trump personally will avenge el'Presidente Ze for refusal of "small favor" about hunter B. back than. So obviously not good scenario. Biden will continue cash-in until there would be none to fight.

I assume that Biden's family is now more wealthy than Trumps. 

 I agree - and Ukraine is running out of manpower - better a poor peace than a good war.

https://www.wsj.com/world/europe/ukraines-battered-army-grapples-with-growing-troop-shortage-6d695eba

[ChicagoExpat]

11 minutes ago, NativeBob said:

Trump personally will avenge el'Presidente Ze for refusal of "small favor" about hunter B. back than. So obviously not good scenario. Biden will continue cash-in until there would be none to fight.

I assume that Biden's family is now more wealthy than Trumps. 

Yes, we can count on Trump to do something petty like that, though the fact that the New Right is very pro-Russian is also a big selling point.  I read David Brooks' interview with Bannon today (worth a read) and he was very clear that they're all about throwing Ukraine to the wolves.

 

Trump's family is far less wealthy than they always portrayed, and Biden's family was always wealthier than they portrayed, so you might be right.

[BobBKK]

15 minutes ago, ChicagoExpat said:

You called me "blind."  With no nuance.  That was not respectful dialogue.

 

Bob, you keep finding new ways to demonstrate hypocrisy.

Your weak trolling is getting boring. 


"be blind to somethingto completely fail to notice or realize something → blindly International companies are all too often blind to local needs. He was totally blind to the faults of his children."

https://www.ldoceonline.com/dictionary/be-blind-to-something

[ChicagoExpat]

Just now, BobBKK said:

Your weak trolling is getting boring. 


"be blind to somethingto completely fail to notice or realize something → blindly International companies are all too often blind to local needs. He was totally blind to the faults of his children."

https://www.ldoceonline.com/dictionary/be-blind-to-something

Bob, I remind you again that responding to you, as you respond to me, is not "trolling."  And I'll always respond to your DISRESPECTFUL STALKING.  You never said I was "blind to X," you just said I was "blind."  Very ad hominem, very disrespectful.

 

Yes, so boring you can't help but respond.

[BobBKK]

2 minutes ago, ChicagoExpat said:

Bob, I remind you again that responding to you, as you respond to me, is not "trolling."  And I'll always respond to your DISRESPECTFUL STALKING.  You never said I was "blind to X," you just said I was "blind."  Very ad hominem, very disrespectful.

 

Yes, so boring you can't help but respond.

 Context - you know perfectly well what I meant. 

[Seppius]

19 minutes ago, ChicagoExpat said:

Yes, we can count on Trump to do something petty like that, though the fact that the New Right is very pro-Russian is also a big selling point.  I read David Brooks' interview with Bannon today (worth a read) and he was very clear that they're all about throwing Ukraine to the wolves.

 

Trump's family is far less wealthy than they always portrayed, and Biden's family was always wealthier than they portrayed, so you might be right.

Let's suppose DT does withdraw support for Ukraine, I believe Europe will continue their support, what do you think?

[bubblegum]

Why the far right is on Putin's side I cannot comprehend. 

[ChicagoExpat]

38 minutes ago, Seppius said:

Let's suppose DT does withdraw support for Ukraine, I believe Europe will continue their support, what do you think?

Great question.  They can see what's next for them if Ukraine falls.  The irony is, of the many justifications Putin has offered for the war including "preventing the expansion of NATO," he could not have done a better job of doing just that-- expanding NATO.

 

I don't have much faith, however, in their ability to sustain support.  70 years of allowing the United States to foot their military bill has rendered them unsuited to make the hard choices necessary to defend themselves.

 

Just my two cents.

[ChicagoExpat]

16 minutes ago, bubblegum said:

Why the far right is on Putin's side I cannot comprehend. 

I'm with you.  I'm old enough to remember when it was the Left that loved Russia.  I never in a million years thought it would switch.  I began to get a taste of it when I was living there -- there were clowns like Patrick Lancaster doing videos from the occupied territories, and there were American guys living in Russia who had not only married Russian women and liked Russian culture (both totally understandable) but who had really bought into the Kremlin's nonsense.  I was surprised at the time.

[rabas]

5 hours ago, BobBKK said:

 I am very clear what a proxy war is - you are blind. Whatever negotiations will happen after Trump wins - Ukraine will give up land - game over.

Vision test...

 

Russia fought proxy wars in Ukraine prior to Putin's full invasion in 2022, after which it was no longer a proxy war.

 

Wiki: Allegations of genocide in Donbas

 

Altogether, about 14,300 people were killed in the Donbas War, both soldiers and civilians. According to the Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights, 6,500 were Russian proxy forces, 4,400 were Ukrainian forces, and 3,404 were civilians on both sides of the frontline.

 

Test results: ChicagoExpat has excellent vision.

[thaibeachlovers]

17 hours ago, ChicagoExpat said:

Actually, you're right on this, and I erred in how I made my point.  But you understand my point.  Which is that the posters that constantly advocate for Russia and its pals never choose to live under those regimes.  But you knew that, my clumsiness not withstanding.

Thanks for that.

However, while I can only speak for myself, I suspect more than a few of us reject both sides of the coin and prefer a country that chooses not to get involved in western squabbles.

 

BTW, you seem to equate pointing out the many faults of western countries as preferring the regimes of Russia/ China/ North Korea/ etc which IMO is a nonsense. IMO they are ALL imperfect, but some are less imperfect than others.

 

I count myself fortunate to have lived in the only continent on the planet not blighted by militaristic BS, and where all the countries that inhabit it get along together just fine, whatever their policies elsewhere- Antarctica. People can get along without trying to kill each other, if they want to.

[thaibeachlovers]

16 hours ago, ChicagoExpat said:

I don't have much faith, however, in their ability to sustain support.  70 years of allowing the United States to foot their military bill has rendered them unsuited to make the hard choices necessary to defend themselves.

On that I agree 100%. When unemployment becomes a career choice, why would a youth today subject themselves to military BS? Even I had enough of it to get out when I didn't have to.

[thaibeachlovers]

16 hours ago, bubblegum said:

Why the far right is on Putin's side I cannot comprehend. 

Do explain?

I had no idea that the "far right" ( whatever that is ) was on Russia's side.

I thought they just recognised it wasn't a conflict worth wasting any more money on.

[thaibeachlovers]

16 hours ago, Seppius said:

Let's suppose DT does withdraw support for Ukraine, I believe Europe will continue their support, what do you think?

I don't think they can afford to do so. They are broke, are they not?

[thaibeachlovers]

17 hours ago, ChicagoExpat said:

Yes, we can count on Trump to do something petty like that, though the fact that the New Right is very pro-Russian is also a big selling point.  I read David Brooks' interview with Bannon today (worth a read) and he was very clear that they're all about throwing Ukraine to the wolves.

I don't care as to the reason for stopping the money conveyor belt to Ukraine as long as it stops. IMO it was a war that should never have happened.

IMO it's just not worth western treasure that should have been used to better the lives of western taxpayers. No one ever asked them if they preferred bullets for Ukraine over a better life for themselves and their children.

[thaibeachlovers]

18 hours ago, ChicagoExpat said:

The back and forth of posting isn't "stalking".  It's posting.  It's what a forum like this is about.  You respond to ALL of my posts.  Are you "stalking" me?  What a crybaby.

 

You don't understand what a proxy war is.  Russia started this war, Russia can end this war anytime it wants by withdrawing to its own lawful borders.  If Ukraine has friends that help it out, you can't cry about it.

 

Stop shilling for Russia.

You seem to be under the impression that Ukraine can actually win. Perhaps you can give us some facts as to how that will happen, rather than insulting other posters that you disagree with.

[ChicagoExpat]

16 hours ago, rabas said:

Vision test...

 

Russia fought proxy wars in Ukraine prior to Putin's full invasion in 2022, after which it was no longer a proxy war.

 

Wiki: Allegations of genocide in Donbas

 

Altogether, about 14,300 people were killed in the Donbas War, both soldiers and civilians. According to the Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights, 6,500 were Russian proxy forces, 4,400 were Ukrainian forces, and 3,404 were civilians on both sides of the frontline.

 

Test results: ChicagoExpat has excellent vision.

@rabas THANK YOU SIR

[Woof999]

21 hours ago, BobBKK said:

I agree - and Ukraine is running out of manpower - better a poor peace than a good war.

 

Which falls way short of calling out Putin for being the aggressor and for "doing wrong". You imply (actually it seems like you fully agree) that Putin is fully the right to invade and that all of the deaths incurred are of Ukraine's doing.

 

Therefore your calls on Ukraine to basically just give up are made from a position of great bias. Of course you could always say the say about myself and others who hold the opposite view.

[ChicagoExpat]

4 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

You seem to be under the impression that Ukraine can actually win. Perhaps you can give us some facts as to how that will happen, rather than insulting other posters that you disagree with.

Certainly Ukraine can win.  Underdogs often win.  They need to outlast the invader.  Just ask Afghanistan (and Russia, the U.S.) or Vietnam, or many other nations.

[ChicagoExpat]

4 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I don't care as to the reason for stopping the money conveyor belt to Ukraine as long as it stops. IMO it was a war that should never have happened.

IMO it's just not worth western treasure that should have been used to better the lives of western taxpayers. No one ever asked them if they preferred bullets for Ukraine over a better life for themselves and their children.

That's not how government works.  Each citizen doesn't get a line item vote on each bit of spending.  And it's help Ukraine fight Russia now, or help NATO fight Russia later when it invades a NATO state.  Not a hard choice.

[ChicagoExpat]

4 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

On that I agree 100%. When unemployment becomes a career choice, why would a youth today subject themselves to military BS? Even I had enough of it to get out when I didn't have to.

When Russia invades its next country, if its an EU or NATO one, then the choice is clear.  And, barring Putin's much deserved death hopefully at the end of a rope (or poisoned, or pushed out a window, blown up in a plane, or beaten to death in gulag, or stabbed -- you get my point, a few of his favorite ways of dispatching opponents), Russia WILL Invade again.