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Secretary Baker in 1990 No extension of NATO "one inch to the east" what could go wrong?


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16 minutes ago, johng said:

Exactly the point...now it is much larger and Putin is not happy about it and is doing something about it Ukraine as the last buffer zone.

Why would Putin be worried about NATO? 

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1 minute ago, BobBKK said:

 Why would USA be worried about nukes in Cuba? 

Because the USA was at [Cold] war with Russia.

 

Keep asking me easy [for a Boomer] to answer questions.

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4 minutes ago, BobBKK said:


So, are we never to trust treaties, promises, and agreements? Your suggestion is chaos, lying, and betrayal everywhere—a world based on deceit and subterfuge.

This is what humanity has come to?  I hate to say it, but the USA is behind all this evil because it has a saviour complex - it thinks everywhere should be like America the Beautiful. Instead of cooperation we have domination.

Taking one document out of context leaves you open to misinformation. It really needs to be read with all the other documents that were released rather than out of context.

 

NATO Expansion: What Gorbachev Heard

https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-book/russia-programs/2017-12-12/nato-expansion-what-gorbachev-heard-western-leaders-early

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2 minutes ago, Ben Zioner said:

Why would Putin be worried about NATO? 

It is the treaty and economic duties that comes with it, as well what you can buy and sell to who. 

 

Nato is not just a defensive treaty, it is an aggressive economic treaty.

 

Nt so different than Trump says clear and loud, America first 🙂

 

Nothing New, this is a world game fighting for the available resources and markeds. 

 

can't believe some think different.

 

Putin need economic growth, same as every other  country does, and when constantly cut off short, what do you expect? 

 

Always been like that, and nothing will change in future. 

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3 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Taking one document out of context leaves you open to misinformation. It really needs to be read with all the other documents that were released rather than out of context.

 

NATO Expansion: What Gorbachev Heard

https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-book/russia-programs/2017-12-12/nato-expansion-what-gorbachev-heard-western-leaders-early

 "the West German chancellor understood a key Soviet bottom line, and assured Gorbachev on February 10, 1990: “We believe that NATO should not expand the sphere of its activity.” (See Document 9) "

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9 minutes ago, BobBKK said:


So, are we never to trust treaties, promises, and agreements? Your suggestion is chaos, lying, and betrayal everywhere—a world based on deceit and subterfuge.

This is what humanity has come to?  I hate to say it, but the USA is behind all this evil because it has a saviour complex - it thinks everywhere should be like America the Beautiful. Instead of cooperation we have domination.

Easy to blaim Usa for everything, it is just happen to.be Usa is on the top for now, and we should not wish for anything else if you are a western. The alternatives is not any better. 

 

Understand why things escalates is important, and try to prevent for further damages would be wise, but still our wealth still counts on Usa and our allies to continue 

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6 minutes ago, BobBKK said:

 Nukes in Mexico, then? Or Hawaii?  America would bo NUTZ in Russia ever did that - you see the point? 

Did you fornicate last night?

 

Not, it seems, you are incoherent.

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Just now, BobBKK said:

 "the West German chancellor understood a key Soviet bottom line, and assured Gorbachev on February 10, 1990: “We believe that NATO should not expand the sphere of its activity.” (See Document 9) "

You didn't have time to read all that and snipped the best quote you could find out of numerous docs. Futile, we could go back and forth, I've not read it all myself yet but could can immediately get to other perspectives such as:

 

"As Kohl said to Gorbachev in Moscow on July 15, 1990, as they worked out the final deal on German unification: “We know what awaits NATO in the future, and I think you are now in the know as well,” referring to the NATO London Declaration. (See Document 23)

In his phone call to Gorbachev on July 17, Bush meant to reinforce the success of the Kohl-Gorbachev talks and the message of the London Declaration. Bush explained: “So what we tried to do was to take account of your concerns expressed to me and others, and we did it in the following ways: by our joint declaration on non-aggression; in our invitation to you to come to NATO"

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16 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

You didn't have time to read all that and snipped the best quote you could find out of numerous docs. Futile, we could go back and forth, I've not read it all myself yet but could can immediately get to other perspectives such as:

 

"As Kohl said to Gorbachev in Moscow on July 15, 1990, as they worked out the final deal on German unification: “We know what awaits NATO in the future, and I think you are now in the know as well,” referring to the NATO London Declaration. (See Document 23)

In his phone call to Gorbachev on July 17, Bush meant to reinforce the success of the Kohl-Gorbachev talks and the message of the London Declaration. Bush explained: “So what we tried to do was to take account of your concerns expressed to me and others, and we did it in the following ways: by our joint declaration on non-aggression; in our invitation to you to come to NATO"

 "Bush explained"  lol

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2 minutes ago, BobBKK said:


Did Iraq want to be invaded?  NO
Did Vietnam want to be invaded? NO
Did Syria want to be bombed?  NO
Did Kosovo enjoy the NATO bombing? NO

and on and on and on
 

Is China a sovereign nation? YES
Is Taiwan a sovereign nation?  NO

By your logic, China has every right to invade NOW!
 

Oh don't be shy, Putin and Russia has their fair share in recent history

 

Russia’s wars for the last 30 years and their consequences

https://www.ukrainer.net/russian-wars/

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