Latest Bib Scam

[basjke]

Tonight I experienced the newest bib scam when I came back from my trip to Ubon.In Korat I took the 304 road direction Kabinburi and when approaching the first traffic lights,I think the place calls chockchai,the light was green.However closer to the lights I noticed that the right arrow was the one and only that was lighten up and at that time it was too late to make a safe brake.While passing the intersection I thought about why they can't have it same as in europe where the lights automaticly switch to flashing amber when there is an error or one of the bulbs is broken.Anyway not much time to think because 100 meters further on the lone rangers were signing me to stop and I wasn't the first one.-Good night sir,you not stop red light.-Sorry officer but there was no red light.-Yes sir have red light.-Sorry officer but red light don't work.Straight away the officer offers me to go have a check.While I attempt to walk back the second officer takes place in the passenger seat of my car and tells me I just can drive back.100 meters against traffic flow,mai pen rai.While driving backwards I hear a message on his radio about somebody jumping red light and another voice is replying about so there must be somebody at the traffic lights.Upon arriving at the lights I notice that there is a police box where there is movement inside.We check the lights and indeed the red light is working.I am sure they didn't work before but what can I say?The only thing I can do is pay the requested 200 baht and happy they are.Now I know that it happend in the past when being diverted that I noticed a traffic light too late but I can not recall any blindness ever.So I decide to take the next u-turn pass the traffic lights and then again turn around and stop a short distance before the lights.And surprise, the lights are broken again.That means that there was someone in the police box who was switching off the stoplight for going straight.This is not about the 200 baht because if they want it they will always find a way to get it but they creating a life dangerous situation just to get some teamoney.

So beware when you pass that intersection because I'm sure this is not the first time they use this trick and it will not be the last time.

Edited July 29, 2007 by basjke

[george]

I consider it Road Tax. Just pay, smile and enjoy.

[basjke]

I consider it Road Tax. Just pay, smile and enjoy.

As I said before George I don't mind about the road tax as they will get it anyway but with the situation they create.When the direction for going right has green light at the same time the opposite side has green light to go right.Going straight has no lights vissible.If someone from the opposite direction was taking his way at that time I would have crashed straight into that car only because some f.....g c..t switched off the lights.

[CarlBkk]

I consider it Road Tax. Just pay, smile and enjoy.

George, I hope you're joking. A policeman, yes...a policeman who are meant to serve the good citizens, is turning the lights on and off to get extra money. Do not "smile", do not "pay" there and then and make sure they know you don't enjoy it.

[soundman]

These types of "sting" operations are quite the norm in rural Thailand.

That station at "chok chai" on 304 Road intersection is notorious for it & another point about 30km further on, just before the start of the mountains at km 81 is even worse. They even try to get you for the "wrong colour tyres" on your vehicle!

Unfortunately, the moral of the story is "pay & be on your way".

Soundman.

[Ulysses G.]

I consider it Road Tax. Just pay, smile and enjoy.

George, I hope you're joking. A policeman, yes...a policeman who are meant to serve the good citizens, is turning the lights on and off to get extra money. Do not "smile", do not "pay" there and then and make sure they know you don't enjoy it.

Enjoy your stint in the pokey!

[womble]

I consider it Road Tax. Just pay, smile and enjoy.

Surely you're joking, I don't mind paying when I do something wrong, but dangerous games by greedy cops who are too lazy to get bribes by stopping those who commit offenses is unacceptable.

The standard of driving is so poor it wouldn't be too difficult to catch people who are actually breaking road rules rather than put in danger those that are following them.

No wonder people hate the BIB here.

[Bangkok Barry]

One idea when the police are trying to shake you down is ask them if they realise they are doing so in the name of His Majesty. They do, after all, work for the ROYAL Thai police force. Probably too difficult a concept for them to understand though.

The best way to get rid of most of the crime in Thailand is to abolish the police force who commit a large percentage of it. No more traffic scams, no more protection rackets with people trying to earn an honest (?) living. And so on.

[Donnyboy]

These types of "sting" operations are quite the norm in rural Thailand.

That station at "chok chai" on 304 Road intersection is notorious for it & another point about 30km further on, just before the start of the mountains at km 81 is even worse. They even try to get you for the "wrong colour tyres" on your vehicle!

Unfortunately, the moral of the story is "pay & be on your way".

Soundman.

I have often wondered why no one has ever tried filming them in the process (covertly) and leaking it to the media like say TITV and then seeing what happens. Probably wouldnt change a thing.

[Thaddeus]

That station at "chok chai" on 304 Road intersection is notorious for it & another point about 30km further on, just before the start of the mountains at km 81 is even worse. They even try to get you for the "wrong colour tyres" on your vehicle!

Yip, I've had run-ins with the Bib in Chok Chai, they are gits.

I once got stopped in Nong Ki (or I thought I was) I had done nothing wrong, the chap just took my licence and sped off with it and when we stopped at the next police box one of his associates told me that I had to stump up a thousand baht to get it back.

I called the ex-chief of police for Buriram (he lives around the corner from me) to see if he could help (which he did) and then called the current chief of Khorat (as that was were I was headed, and I had recently helped him to sell his car) he told me to carry on and to call him again if any other Bibs hassled me.

On my way back home I stopped at the main police station in Nong Ki (as advised by the ex-chief) the main guy there was totally livid and ranting on his mobile to someone.

Between the three of them they found out that the first Bib was actually from Chok Chai and he had stopped me 2 meters outside of Nong Ki ...... so he was getting the tea money and the cops from Nong Ki were getting the bad name.

Result.

I got my licence back a few days later, the main chap in Nong Ki got a bottle of 100 Pipers and the chief in Khorat called me to say that the first Bib is now flying a desk and won't be getting any more tea money any time soon.

[sbk]

I have often wondered why no one has ever tried filming them in the process (covertly) and leaking it to the media like say TITV and then seeing what happens. Probably wouldnt change a thing.

Not sure how long you've been here Donnyboy but there used to be a TV station called ITV, which stood for Independent TV. They filmed all sorts of scams, investigated rip-offs and corruption. Then they were bought out by Thaksin, who didn't appreciate being investigated, the reporters fired, investigations ceased and it turned into another game show/soap opera tv station.

[Donnyboy]

I have often wondered why no one has ever tried filming them in the process (covertly) and leaking it to the media like say TITV and then seeing what happens. Probably wouldnt change a thing.

Not sure how long you've been here Donnyboy but there used to be a TV station called ITV, which stood for Independent TV. They filmed all sorts of scams, investigated rip-offs and corruption. Then they were bought out by Thaksin, who didn't appreciate being investigated, the reporters fired, investigations ceased and it turned into another game show/soap opera tv station.

been here just on 3 years, but so much more to know. Hopefully, the journos will once again report without fear and intimidation. Glad that reporter from the Post got justice about the airport runway cracks finally.

[CarlBkk]

There we go. A success story.

Why make it easy for the bad guys when you could make it difficult. Hey, you might even change something by not "paying up, smiling and accepting" it. You don't have to end up in jail if you have no contacts. You can easily go and pay at the police station if it's a legit fine, and if you're not late for an important meeting. Much less convenient for the bad BIBs.

Edited July 30, 2007 by CarlBkk

[soundman]

There we go. A success story.

Why make it easy for the bad guys when you could make it difficult. Hey, you might even change something by not "paying up, smiling and accepting" it. You don't have to end up in jail if you have no contacts. You can easily go and pay at the police station if it's a legit fine, and if you're not late for an important meeting. Much less convenient for the bad BIBs.

No its not.

You will usually pay double what the police officer is asking, for a "legitimate ticket" & the police officer gets to keep 50% of that anyway as his legal "commision" for not taking a bribe. The whole process can take hours to complete or even "come back tomorow" to pick up your liscense.

Assuming you were wrong in the first place, it is much less time consuming & far cheaper just to pay what the officer asks for (negotiable BTW) than doing it the correct way. Up too you.

Soundman.

[Gimbo]

These types of "sting" operations are quite the norm in rural Thailand.

That station at "chok chai" on 304 Road intersection is notorious for it & another point about 30km further on, just before the start of the mountains at km 81 is even worse. They even try to get you for the "wrong colour tyres" on your vehicle!

Unfortunately, the moral of the story is "pay & be on your way".

Soundman.

They got me there twice on the same trip. But last time I passed, he recognized me, and let me off with a stern warning...

[tartempion]

I consider it Road Tax. Just pay, smile and enjoy.

Sadly you do not consider this a crime by the BIB?

[WaiWai]

The standard of driving is so poor it wouldn't be too difficult to catch people who are actually breaking road rules rather than put in danger those that are following them.

Precisely !

[jasreeve17]

The usual apathetic replies from "long term members" who "know more than others because of their vast experience here". Maybe they've been here too long.

Do not pay corrupt policemen. Live up to your social responsibility and things might change. Have a bit of moral fibre.

(And yes I have argued with with Thai police on several occasions when they've tried to get tea money. I've never paid a penny, and I've not been killed or spent time in jail either. A couple of hours at the station is better than encouraging crime.)

[soundman]

The usual apathetic replies from "long term members" who "know more than others because of their vast experience here". Maybe they've been here too long.

Do not pay corrupt policemen. Live up to your social responsibility and things might change. Have a bit of moral fibre.

(And yes I have argued with with Thai police on several occasions when they've tried to get tea money. I've never paid a penny, and I've not been killed or spent time in jail either. A couple of hours at the station is better than encouraging crime.)

Well maybe you have all the time in the world, however, many of "the long term members" actually work for a living in Thailand, and therefore, can't be stuffed waiting around, or doing a double trip to collect your liscense the next day, to gain the superior moral high ground that will not change the system unless the Thai people (not farang's) actually want it changed.

Just a question... You've never paid a penny? Does that therfore infer that any traffic infringement you have been involved in that the police have been nice enough to let you off for free?

Grab a dose of reality man.

Soundman.

[jasreeve17]

I work here too. One time when I was stopped for doing nothing, I gave the police my employers number and asked them to call to explain why I'd be late for work... at which point they let me on my way.

If I break a law then I'd pay the fine. But, I don't and I haven't.

If your reality is to accept corruption and a police force that are able to break the laws by stealing money, then I don't want it.

I live, work and pay taxes here. I have social resposability and I down shy away from it. The system is changed when all the people in it refuse to accept wrong doing. It's not changed by passing the buck. Apathy...

A note on the flip side, I have had far more good experiences with the police here, than bad.

[WaiWai]

that will not change the system unless the Thai people (not farang's) actually want it changed

The impression I get is that most Thais don't like this "system" either.

[jasreeve17]

that will not change the system unless the Thai people (not farang's) actually want it changed

The impression I get is that most Thais don't like this "system" either.

It's not a reasonable argument, it's an excuse to help condone his apathy.

Of course the Thais hate it. Have you listened to the Thai head of police? He wants to stop the police corruption, but he needs the help from everyone in society to achieve this goal.

[samran]

that will not change the system unless the Thai people (not farang's) actually want it changed

The impression I get is that most Thais don't like this "system" either.

It hasn't got much to do with liking or not liking the system. The incentives are such that it is easier to just pay the bribe....and the coppers know this.

My grand idea on this front is to make all traffic fines payable at 7-11, banks and postoffices via the day/night payment facitly that already exists. Thats from the general publics perspective, and realtively easy to do. It might make it easier for some of us to be a bit more principaled!

For the coppers it is harder. The police force is simple a pyramid scheme. Coppers on the lower rungs pass up most of their takings anyway. Promotions are based on paying the person vacating the position. Most of the money goes up...the average copper will see less of the money that you actually think.

For all this, i've always managed to stand my ground. Book me or let me go (unless I've done wrong, in which case I take the fine). But this has always been in areas conveient for me to do so. Not sure how I'd handle it out in the sticks.

Also, my observation. My experience with cops is more good than bad.

[basjke]

It's not a reasonable argument, it's an excuse to help condone his apathy.

Of course the Thais hate it. Have you listened to the Thai head of police? He wants to stop the police corruption, but he needs the help from everyone in society to achieve this goal.

Haven't I heard this from every head of police for the past 6 years?

[soundman]

My grand idea on this front is to make all traffic fines payable at 7-11, banks and postoffices via the day/night payment facitly that already exists. Thats from the general publics perspective, and realtively easy to do. It might make it easier for some of us to be a bit more principaled!

A centralised fine collection system might work, but what's to guarantee that people actually pay the fines without going into expensive modes of collection that could easily quadruble the cost / revenue raised by the initial fine in the first place?

At present the police just hang on to your liscense (or car key) until you provide them with a receipt that the fine has been paid. Quite often they won't issue the legitimate fine on the spot because the issuing officer doesn't actually have the power to write out the fine & has to wait for a qualified officer to do so which can take days.

This is a pain in the neck if you returning from a sales call in say Pattalung, your house is in Korat & the station where you were fined is in Toong Song. The fine ends up costing twenty fold for say exceeding the speed limit in a construction zone where there were no visable speed limit signs in the first place.

Economic & busines sense to pay the discounted price.

Soundman.

[samran]

My grand idea on this front is to make all traffic fines payable at 7-11, banks and postoffices via the day/night payment facitly that already exists. Thats from the general publics perspective, and realtively easy to do. It might make it easier for some of us to be a bit more principaled!

A centralised fine collection system might work, but what's to guarantee that people actually pay the fines without going into expensive modes of collection that could easily quadruble the cost / revenue raised by the initial fine in the first place?

At present the police just hang on to your liscense (or car key) until you provide them with a receipt that the fine has been paid. Quite often they won't issue the legitimate fine on the spot because the issuing officer doesn't actually have the power to write out the fine & has to wait for a qualified officer to do so which can take days.

This is a pain in the neck if you returning from a sales call in say Pattalung, your house is in Korat & the station where you were fined is in Toong Song. The fine ends up costing twenty fold for say exceeding the speed limit in a construction zone where there were no visable speed limit signs in the first place.

Economic & busines sense to pay the discounted price.

Soundman.

agree 100% with what you are saying. Fines need to be lowered for sure.

[Tony Clifton]

"To selfe-serve and collect"

[soundman]

agree 100% with what you are saying. Fines need to be lowered for sure.

As a driver that averages 120K Km's per year on the Thai highways I wouldn't argue with that!

[mrbojangles]

In fairness to the Op, he wasn't really moaning about the actual fine. He was just informing people of the scam and where it is. This topic could have gone a few ways, one of them could have been for other members to let us know of different scams and where they are.

Another tangent, was to go off on the same old "why should we pay" and "the BiB are corrupt" and "don't pay" etcetera etcetera. Unfortunately this topic has gone off on the latter tangent...............again

[OneeyedJohn]

Don't know if Chiang Rai to Maesai can be regarded as the sticks, but,in 6 years of driving the 75 Km trip

with 2 police checkpoints, I have never been stopped. I drive a bog standard Isuzu pick up, always smile and wave

( including the cardboard cutouts ) as I drive slowly through.

My only experience getting stopped was in a low slung pick up from Bkk to Hua Hin and had to cough up 500.

What the hel_l. As above, more good than bad I guess.