Withdraw with foreign atm or wise transfer safe 2024(tax wise)?

[Mike Lister]

3 minutes ago, JohnnyBD said:

I wouldn't think the money changers report transactions to TRD, but last time I changed money, they made a copy of my passport. Maybe others on the forum know if there's any risk there. But, even if you reported it, like the previous poster said, you will probably be less that the total deductions.

Money changers are regulated by the BOT, the same as banks are. They no doubt have reporting requirements also.

[JohnnyBD]

21 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

Money changers are regulated by the BOT, the same as banks are. They no doubt have reporting requirements also.

Thanks for the reply. I thought they might have reporting requirements since they made a copy of my passport.

Edited July 7 by JohnnyBD

[Will B Good]

1 hour ago, JohnnyBD said:

Does anyone know if the money changers report transactions to TRD? Last time I changed money, I think they made a copy of my passport.

Interesting thought......I actually used the wife's Thai ID????

[Myran]

8 hours ago, Dirk Z said:

I disagree. It's following the rules. 

It's not. You're benefitting from the money, and it's therefore not considered a gift according to Thai law. Is anyone going to find out? Doubtful, but you're definitely not "following the rules".

[EVENKEEL]

2 hours ago, JohnnyBD said:

Does anyone know if the money changers report transactions to TRD? Last time I changed money, I think they made a copy of my passport.

Thailand welcomed 28 million tourists in 2023. If 25% of those tourists exchanged money then 7 mil tourists will be investigated and categorized as to whether they are residents or not. I seriously think things are being overly thought out. 

[Lorry]

3 hours ago, JohnnyBD said:

Does anyone know if the money changers report transactions to TRD? Last time I changed money, I think they made a copy of my passport.

I don't know. 

I guess they report somewhere,  but probably not (yet) the TRD.

But what if they  report to the TRD in a year or two, and you are found out (again maybe a year or two after that)?

 

 

 

[Mike Lister]

2 minutes ago, Lorry said:

I don't know. 

I guess they report somewhere,  but probably not (yet) the TRD.

But what if they  report to the TRD in a year or two, and you are found out (again maybe a year or two after that)?

 

 

 

They are licensed and governed by BOT rules, it's near certain they do report.

[JohnnyBD]

1 hour ago, EVENKEEL said:

Thailand welcomed 28 million tourists in 2023. If 25% of those tourists exchanged money then 7 mil tourists will be investigated and categorized as to whether they are residents or not. I seriously think things are being overly thought out. 

Yea, I think it would take a Herculean effort to determine if those 7MM people who changed money were tax residents or not, and if they should have filed a tax return. So, that effort may never happen,

Edited July 7 by JohnnyBD

[puck2]

On 7/6/2024 at 9:29 AM, soalbundy said:

Don't underestimate any tax office, they are patient. Taxation possibilities are easy for the state, they just give the order for the technological responsibility to a third party, for instance, your ATM withdrawal could be taxed at source at the ATM, a foreign credit or debit card usage would be the trigger for the banks computer to deduct the tax from the payout once the computer connects with the IO to ascertain that you are a tax resident, it would be the banks responsibility to ensure this, no cost to the state. Modern technology, AI? wouldn't need more personnel, its impersonal you would have to do the running around to get your deductions recognized if you don't turn in a tax form. I've had dealings with British and German tax officials, they are like a dog with a bone regarding their paragraphs but on a personal level they just don't care.

 

...hm. and the modern technology is already able to deduct the real/right  amount of the tax by the ATM???  5%, 10% ..... or 35% like a soothsayer ???  The amount of the tax-percent is only visible after the end of thre year !

 

That seems impossible for me. If they would do it, we, the farangs, would ask the offices for the tax return in  the following year for many, many ATM withdrawels!!!!  OMG, what a mountain of work for the tax offices. And don't let me think about their competence.

[JohnnyBD]

6 minutes ago, puck2 said:

 

...hm. and the modern technology is already able to deduct the real/right  amount of the tax by the ATM???  5%, 10% ..... or 35% like a soothsayer ???  The amount of the tax-percent is only visible after the end of thre year !

 

That seems impossible for me. If they would do it, we, the farangs, would ask the offices for the tax return in  the following year for many, many ATM withdrawels!!!!  OMG, what a mountain of work for the tax offices. And don't let me think about their competence.

So, some soothsayer in TRD is going to magically determine what interest rates I should be paying on my next ATM withdrawal, then it's communicate to the bank and then to the ATM in hyper speed, and the machine spits out money less taxes. Sounds like science fiction to me.

[shdmn]

14 hours ago, JohnnyBD said:

My understanding is, if one remits only NON assessable Social Security monies, then no TIN number or tax return is required. You self-assess if you have assessable income above the 60k threshold, and if you do not, then no TIN and no tax return.

You don't even have any bank interest?  Usually, you still have to file a NIL tax return in the west even if you have no taxable income, but I am certainly no expert on Thai tax law.

Edited July 7 by shdmn

[puck2]

47 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

They are licensed and governed by BOT rules, it's near certain they do report.

 

but, but .... my farang passport does not show them, where I stay in Thailand!! Result:  for every money transfer (by ATM) they would have to ask the "special" Thai office for "where to report to" because of the stamps (numbers)  in your passport!  A very time consuming job.

Edited July 7 by puck2

[puck2]

47 minutes ago, JohnnyBD said:

So, some soothsayer in TRD is going to magically determine what interest rates I should be paying on my next ATM withdrawal, then it's communicate to the bank and then to the ATM in hyper speed, and the machine spits out money less taxes. Sounds like science fiction to me.

 

The same probleme as I have written just before:

even no high tech machine is able to "report" to the responsible authority/TRD.

I.e.: I have my home in Bangkok, but withdraw money from an ATM in Chiang Mai or anywhere else. Where will it report to?

I should add, my ATM-card is from a Bank in a "farang-state"

Edited July 7 by puck2

[JohnnyBD]

18 minutes ago, shdmn said:

You don't even have any bank interest?  Usually, you still have to file a NIL tax return in the west even if you have no taxable income, but I am certainly no expert on Thai tax law.

The rule here is that once you remit 60k THB of assessable income, then you are supposed to get a TIN and file a tax return, even if no taxes are owed. Thai banks pay very little interest, so I never go over the 60,000 THB threshold and do not need a TIN or tax return.

[Lorry]

41 minutes ago, JohnnyBD said:

The rule here is that once you remit 60k THB of assessable income, then you are supposed to get a TIN and file a tax return, even if no taxes are owed. Thai banks pay very little interest, so I never go over the 60,000 THB threshold and do not need a TIN or tax return.

Can you live on 60,000 a year?

[pub2022]

New Thai Tax Law 2024?

 

People have nothing better to do than talking about something that doesn't even exist?

[freedomnow]

8 million pages will typed on this subject across multiple threads - then they will U-turn as unworkable like most other act first think later LoS Govt new policies.

 

WAIT AND SEE..

 

Land

of

U-Turns

[shdmn]

1 hour ago, freedomnow said:

8 million pages will typed on this subject across multiple threads - then they will U-turn as unworkable like most other act first think later LoS Govt new policies.

 

WAIT AND SEE..

 

Land

of

U-Turns

I doubt they will back out of this one.  The first year or two will be a bit of a gong show but things will eventually settle down.

Edited July 7 by shdmn

[Mike Lister]

5 minutes ago, shdmn said:

I doubt they will back out of this one.  The first year or two will be a gong show but things will eventually settle down.  Saying they are going to do something and then figuring it out as they go along is standard operating procedure in Thailand.  The rules do seem to be slowly getting clearer.

Agreed on all points.

[Mike Lister]

4 hours ago, puck2 said:

 

but, but .... my farang passport does not show them, where I stay in Thailand!! Result:  for every money transfer (by ATM) they would have to ask the "special" Thai office for "where to report to" because of the stamps (numbers)  in your passport!  A very time consuming job.

That's a secondary issue, the question was asked whether they report or not. Without getting too far getched on this point, it would be easy enough to flag your passport number with Immi for when you attempted to leave the country, it's what they do for foreigners whose company they wish to retain in the country for further discussions!  

[freedomnow]

..if it impacts the condo market and other bad optics..expat exodus ..they may U-turn.

They u-turn on so much plus new govts. overturn stuff from previous one.

 

It's the flip and flop number 1 country in the world.

[soalbundy]

8 hours ago, puck2 said:

 

...hm. and the modern technology is already able to deduct the real/right  amount of the tax by the ATM???  5%, 10% ..... or 35% like a soothsayer ???  The amount of the tax-percent is only visible after the end of thre year !

 

That seems impossible for me. If they would do it, we, the farangs, would ask the offices for the tax return in  the following year for many, many ATM withdrawels!!!!  OMG, what a mountain of work for the tax offices. And don't let me think about their competence.

That was just a hypothetical but I can imagine them deducting the maximum amount if you don't hand in a tax return and you can then do a run around trying to prove your deductibles and then wait a year to have the excess returned.

I agree with the lack of competence although they may surprise us later in that respect, money can make a Thai very competent.

I intend to act fully compliant with this tax law for this year to see how much it really costs me, if it's too much then I will only declare the 65K a month which is required by IO and the rest I will withdraw with the ATM. Having said that it will be of no use if they really go ahead with taxing your world wide income, that would raise my tax debt from my calculated 27k to 38k a year. Once the tax office gets enthusiastic they are like wolves ripping open a carcass.

[proton]

On 7/7/2024 at 5:23 AM, Mike Lister said:

It's true that the receiver of the gift owns the money and can do what they wish with it. But the giver of the gift must not receive any benefit from the gift, otherwise it's not a gift.

 

Can't possibly be policed though can it

[Mike Lister]

3 minutes ago, proton said:

 

Can't possibly be policed though can it

In the case of a gift in marriage, the gift becomes Sin Suan Tua or the sole property of the giftee and ceases to be conjugal property. It's therefore quite easy to inspect bank accounts and see how that money was spent.....if anyone wanted to (not that they do necessarily).

[proton]

39 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

In the case of a gift in marriage, the gift becomes Sin Suan Tua or the sole property of the giftee and ceases to be conjugal property. It's therefore quite easy to inspect bank accounts and see how that money was spent.....if anyone wanted to (not that they do necessarily).

 

If the cash is taken out and spent how can they tell what it's spent on, or even who spent it? impossible. If it's a gift it can be spent on anything the giftee chooses 

[JohnnyBD]

9 hours ago, Lorry said:

Can you live on 60,000 a year?

No I can't live on 60k per year. I never go over the 60k thereshold from bank interest, and I haven't gone over the 60k thereshold with remittances either because I have enough in savings to live on. Also, my Social Security is non-assessable income, so I don't need to get a TIN or file a tax return.

Edited July 8 by JohnnyBD

[Mike Lister]

1 hour ago, proton said:

 

If the cash is taken out and spent how can they tell what it's spent on, or even who spent it? impossible. If it's a gift it can be spent on anything the giftee chooses 

I can only explain to you what the rules are and the things that the TRD consider, not the probability that they will do those things, how, or whether they will be successful.

[statman78]

On 7/7/2024 at 6:01 AM, shdmn said:

You will still have to get a Thai tax number and file a Thai tax return, so just one more thing to deal with, even if you pay someone to do it for you.

Since moving to Thailand 5 years ago I have my US taxes prepared and submitted by an American tax accountant (American International Tax Advisors) located in Bangkok.  Earlier this year when I spoke with him he was already hiring some Thai tax accountants so he will be able to prepare and submit both my US tax return and Thai tax return if needed.

[puck2]

9 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

That's a secondary issue, the question was asked whether they report or not. Without getting too far getched on this point, it would be easy enough to flag your passport number with Immi for when you attempted to leave the country, it's what they do for foreigners whose company they wish to retain in the country for further discussions!  

 

The question remains:

If, I repeat IF, they have my passport number in their IT-system, does the Thai bureaucracy have any datas of my passport collected? Especially which IMO is in charge of my yearly prolonging of staying in Thailand?

 

And again, if the TRD would have to do it, it would loose a giant lot of time for checking each ATM withdrawel. Maybe they would risk a IT-breakdown.

 

And I doubt, if they are able, to work successfully with it. Consider the 90-days-reporting. How many farangs did they catch for missing this reports? Nearly zero, although this was the official reason for introducing it. In the media you can read of a lot of farang-criminals, who didn't report for many years. OMG, what a successful system 555.

 

[Mike Lister]

18 minutes ago, puck2 said:

 

The question remains:

If, I repeat IF, they have my passport number in their IT-system, does the Thai bureaucracy have any datas of my passport collected? Especially which IMO is in charge of my yearly prolonging of staying in Thailand?

 

And again, if the TRD would have to do it, it would loose a giant lot of time for checking each ATM withdrawel. Maybe they would risk a IT-breakdown.

 

And I doubt, if they are able, to work successfully with it. Consider the 90-days-reporting. How many farangs did they catch for missing this reports? Nearly zero, although this was the official reason for introducing it. In the media you can read of a lot of farang-criminals, who didn't report for many years. OMG, what a successful system 555.

 

You're just asking if you can get away with something without getting caught. Sure you can, it's your life.