A Nation in Crisis: The Erosion of Respect for Law and Order in the UK

[mogandave]

27 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I’m sorry you think £75K is a lot of money.

 

Now back to your question:

 

The right penalty is defined in sentencing guidelines.

I never said it was a lot of money, you just made that up in an attempt to belittle me. 

 

What I said was, that £75k was more than double the median household income in the UK, so clearly it’s a lot of money to many people. 

 

And I did not ask what the sentencing guidelines were, I asked you for your opinion, but I understand that as a leftist, you do not have one of your own, you must tow the party line. 

[Chomper Higgot]

8 minutes ago, mogandave said:

I never said it was a lot of money, you just made that up in an attempt to belittle me. 

 

What I said was, that £75k was more than double the median household income in the UK, so clearly it’s a lot of money to many people. 

 

And I did not ask what the sentencing guidelines were, I asked you for your opinion, but I understand that as a leftist, you do not have one of your own, you must tow the party line. 

I think I’ll go with the sentencing guidelines, you know, the reality.

[mdr224]

Are liberals paying attention? This is where America is headed under Kamala

[Will B Good]

On 8/14/2024 at 4:39 PM, James105 said:

 

War is peace. 

Freedom is slavery.

Ignorance is strength.

James105 is clever

[mogandave]

53 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I think I’ll go with the sentencing guidelines, you know, the reality.

That’s what I said, thanks 

[Chomper Higgot]

56 minutes ago, mdr224 said:

Are liberals paying attention? This is where America is headed under Kamala

So you believe Harris is going to win the election? 

[mogandave]

51 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

So you believe Harris is going to win the election? 

Yes, don’t you?

[TorquayFan]

The Police in the UK lost their way decades ago. We have seen a succession of appalling scandals, a drop in the numbers of Police seen on the street, an emerging failure to tackle domestic burglaries and car crime and a preoccupation with matters 'woke'.

 

The recent widespread was a severe shock and a real wake up call to the UK but the Police, Courts and Starmer himself seem to have made a decent job of quelling this 'uprising'. The UK has indeed been through a major crisis.

 

However, all is not lost even though no-one seems to know just how to resolve the issue of excessive Immigration. IMO it's important we don't lose sight of the fact that vast swathes of the UK function well enough and the Community is still largely made up of well intentioned Folks living good lives.

 

So 'nil desperandum' is my motto - moaning that successive Govts have laid the ground for these problems is pointless.

 

However, it ain't gonna get better anytime soon and Brits do undoubtedly have to adjust adjust expectations to reality - taxes will inevitably continue to rise and spending cuts wll be made - historic Govt overspending has reached £40K per head and as in many Nations - this is not sustainable indefinitely.

 

But all is not lost as many seem to suggest though the path back to reality will be long and painful. Law and Order came under serious attack during the recent riots and these events have been a shock. Let's hope the present 'pause' lasts.

 

 

 

Edited August 21 by TorquayFan

[JonnyF]

On 8/14/2024 at 1:01 PM, Smokey and the Bandit said:

So it appears they have an idea of the problem, but do not offer any solutions,  instead they, the cops,  arrest people for posting on social media and the judges are giving out ridiculously high prison sentences?

 

Totally agree. They are ignoring/refusing to discuss the underlying problems and simply going after the people who speak out about it. 

 

This is not a long term solution. 

 

It's not the first time someone like Starmer has taken this approach to freedom to speech.

 

[Will B Good]

3 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

 

Totally agree. They are ignoring/refusing to discuss the underlying problems and simply going after the people who speak out about it. 

 

This is not a long term solution. 

 

It's not the first time someone like Starmer has taken this approach to freedom to speech.

 

 

 

Of course why didn't I see it......there's an underlying problem...... so riot........rob shops, throw bricks at the police, violently assault people that don't look like Weatherspoons's regulars, set fire to cars, break into hotels......it all seems so simple now.

[James105]

37 minutes ago, TorquayFan said:

But all is not lost as many seem to suggest though the path back to reality will be long and painful. Law and Order came under serious attack during the recent riots and these events have been a shock. Let's hope the present 'pause' lasts.

 

Nobody (as far as I know) was stabbed, raped or killed during the "far right" riots, yet the media and people who consume it seem to think that this is the extent of or the worst criminality ever in the UK.  The UK is now the rape capital or Europe which I think recently overtook Sweden for this crown.   Law and order has been under serious attack since the UK lost control of its borders and locking up some thuggish people who threw a few cans, gesticulated at the police or shared some hurty memes on Facebook doesn't change this one iota. 

 

Burying of head in the sand like Herr Starmer hoping it passes will not fix anything as the horrors will continue unabated.    

 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/283100/recorded-rape-offences-in-england-and-wales/#:~:text=Rape offences have increased dramatically,to 67%2C928 in 2023%2F24.

[JonnyF]

13 minutes ago, Will B Good said:

 

 

Of course why didn't I see it......there's an underlying problem...... so riot........rob shops, throw bricks at the police, violently assault people that don't look like Weatherspoons's regulars, set fire to cars, break into hotels......it all seems so simple now.

 

People have been jailed for FB posts, for asking who is Allah (I wasn't aware we now had blasphemy laws in the UK but there you go).

 

The old lady arrested for offering lollipops to police officers while immigrant rioters wrecked her street? 

 

Anti immigrant rioters jailed within a week while Pro Palestine rioters not even arrested. BLM rioters seeing police take 'the knee'. 

 

There is no reason to respect the police at this point. Or the government. 

[youreavinalaff]

22 hours ago, john donson said:

my home town sadly turned out more and more of one with illegal or immigrants not respecting the laws... only the tax paying working people are afraid of ... fines

Are you saying there are no tax paying immigrants? Are you also saying only immigrants don't respect the law?

[James105]

3 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

Are you saying there are no tax paying immigrants? Are you also saying only immigrants don't respect the law?

 

The UK refuses to publish crime statistics by nationality.   Denmark did though.  

 

[youreavinalaff]

2 minutes ago, James105 said:

 

The UK refuses to publish crime statistics by nationality.   Denmark did though.  

 

I don't think anyone is talking about Denmark.

 

Besides, you've not published data regarding how many of those who break the law are taxpayers.

 

Your figures are also 2 years out of date.

[Will B Good]

46 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

 

People have been jailed for FB posts, for asking who is Allah (I wasn't aware we now had blasphemy laws in the UK but there you go).

 

The old lady arrested for offering lollipops to police officers while immigrant rioters wrecked her street? 

 

Anti immigrant rioters jailed within a week while Pro Palestine rioters not even arrested. BLM rioters seeing police take 'the knee'. 

 

There is no reason to respect the police at this point. Or the government. 

 

 

 

I'll pick just one .....people have not been jailed "for FB posts".....they were jailed for inciting riots, promoting violent acts etc

 

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

2 hours ago, mogandave said:

Yes, don’t you?

I very much hope so. 

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, James105 said:

 

Nobody (as far as I know) was stabbed, raped or killed during the "far right" riots, yet the media and people who consume it seem to think that this is the extent of or the worst criminality ever in the UK.  The UK is now the rape capital or Europe which I think recently overtook Sweden for this crown.   Law and order has been under serious attack since the UK lost control of its borders and locking up some thuggish people who threw a few cans, gesticulated at the police or shared some hurty memes on Facebook doesn't change this one iota. 

 

Burying of head in the sand like Herr Starmer hoping it passes will not fix anything as the horrors will continue unabated.    

 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/283100/recorded-rape-offences-in-england-and-wales/#:~:text=Rape offences have increased dramatically,to 67%2C928 in 2023%2F24.

Dealing with the UK’s appalling record on rape prosecutions involves a few things that many regulars on this forum get really wound up over, ‘believing victims’ being an example.

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, JonnyF said:

 

People have been jailed for FB posts, for asking who is Allah (I wasn't aware we now had blasphemy laws in the UK but there you go).

 

The old lady arrested for offering lollipops to police officers while immigrant rioters wrecked her street? 

 

Anti immigrant rioters jailed within a week while Pro Palestine rioters not even arrested. BLM rioters seeing police take 'the knee'. 

 

There is no reason to respect the police at this point. Or the government. 

Not quite as simple as that is it Jonny.

 

People have indeed been jailed for online hate mongering.

 

I understand some feel this unjust.

[Chomper Higgot]

56 minutes ago, James105 said:

 

The UK refuses to publish crime statistics by nationality.   Denmark did though.  

 

Link please.

[JonnyF]

1 minute ago, Chomper Higgot said:

People have indeed been jailed for online hate mongering.

 

Disagreeing with a failing government policy is not hate mongering.

 

Funny how you "liberals" go all totalitarian as soon as you get a whiff of power. 

[Chomper Higgot]

1 minute ago, JonnyF said:

 

Disagreeing with a failing government policy is not hate mongering.

 

Funny how you "liberals" go all totalitarian as soon as you get a whiff of power. 

Please provide evidence of someone being sent to prison for disagreeing with the Government.

[TorquayFan]

Maybe some of the sentencing appears harsh but not to me. Throwing bricks, bottles and even fire bombs IS murderous stuff. And setting fire to buses, police cars, ambulances ? Who pays to buy another bus at c.£250K, or a Police car or ambulance costing maybe £80K ? Answer - WE DO !!

 

Those who incite these riots are also responsible. You could argue that the costs should be recovered from the culprits where possible and that a 5 year sentence is a let off.

 

 

Edited August 21 by TorquayFan

[JonnyF]

10 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Please provide evidence of someone being sent to prison for disagreeing with the Government.

 

This man was jailed for sharing a post of Asian men saying "coming to a town near you" as a protest against immigration.

 

https://www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/24513379.sellafield-worker-jailed-sharing-offensive-facebook-posts/

 

Since this is factually correct (Angela Rayner said everyone must take their fair share of immigrants and some of the immigrants are indeed Asian) there was no reason to jail the man for this. Was it offensive? Maybe to some, but being offensive is not an offense (for now). 

 

He was disagreeing with the government's policy. He wasn't calling for them to be attacked or for riots, he stated that they will be coming to a town near you which if Rayner is to believed, is absolutely true.  

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/06/26/labour-every-uk-borough-must-take-fair-share-migrants/

 

Jailed for a FaceBook post. Now, let's see what happens to the guys driving around London calling for the daughters of Jews to be raped. Oh that's right, no charges for that.

 

2 tier Britain. 2 tier Starmer.  

[Chomper Higgot]

3 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

 

This man was jailed for sharing a post of Asian men saying "coming to a town near you" as a protest against immigration.

 

https://www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/24513379.sellafield-worker-jailed-sharing-offensive-facebook-posts/

 

Since this is factually correct (Angela Rayner said everyone must take their fair share of immigrants and some of the immigrants are indeed Asian) there was no reason to jail the man for this. Was it offensive? Maybe to some, but being offensive is not an offense (for now). 

 

He was disagreeing with the government's policy. He wasn't calling for them to be attacked or for riots, he stated that they will be coming to a town near you which if Rayner is to believed, is absolutely true.  

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/06/26/labour-every-uk-borough-must-take-fair-share-migrants/

 

Jailed for a FaceBook post. Now, let's see what happens to the guys driving around London calling for the daughters of Jews to be raped. Oh that's right, no charges for that.

 

2 tier Britain. 2 tier Starmer.  

 

I knew it was going to be a weak self stroked grievance answer, but I didn’t expect that weak or so much self stroked grievance.

 

Your martyr was jailed for posting grossly offensive and racist remarks, even he admits he ‘done wrong’.

 

So no, not jailed for ‘disagreeing with the Government’, he was jailed for hate crimes he admits and pleaded guilty to.

 

 

https://www.cps.gov.uk/north-west/news/man-jailed-offensive-social-media-posts-wake-recent-disorder

 

[JonnyF]

5 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

 

I knew it was going to be a weak self stroked grievance answer, but I didn’t expect that weak or so much self stroked grievance.

 

Your martyr was jailed for posting grossly offensive and racist remarks, even he admits he ‘done wrong’.

 

So no, not jailed for ‘disagreeing with the Government’, he was jailed for hate crimes he admits and pleaded guilty to.

 

 

https://www.cps.gov.uk/north-west/news/man-jailed-offensive-social-media-posts-wake-recent-disorder

 

 

Stating facts is not a hate crime. He posted on FB that immigrants were coming to a town near you. Just as Angela Rayner stated.  

 

Meanwhile protestors in London scream for Jihad on the streets and the police redefine the meaning of Jihad so as to not even make any arrest.

 

And Cooper wonders why people don't respect the police or the government. 😃

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

8 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

 

Stating facts is not a hate crime. He posted on FB that immigrants were coming to a town near you. Just as Angela Rayner stated.  

 

Meanwhile protestors in London scream for Jihad on the streets and the police redefine the meaning of Jihad so as to not even make any arrest.

 

And Cooper wonders why people don't respect the police or the government. 😃

 

 

I’ve posted a link to the Crown Prosecution Service’s briefing on your racist martyr’s trial, confession and sentence.

 

Engaging in more misrepresentation of the facts in order to feed your need for grievance isn’t going help you out with your lack of evidence to back your claim.

 

Nobody, not least your racist martyr, has been sent to prison for disagreeing with the Government.

 

 

[JonnyF]

1 minute ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I’ve posted a link to the Crown Prosecution Service’s briefing on your racist martyr’s trial, confession and sentence.

 

Engaging in more misrepresentation of the facts in order to feed your need for grievance isn’t going help you out with your lack of evidence to back your claim.

 

Nobody, not least your racist martyr, has been sent to prison for disagreeing with the Government.

 

 

 

 What did he say that was racist? He repeated Rayner's comment and then asked a question what will happen when they arrive. Debates often start with such questions.  

 

No calls for violence. He didn't even attend a protest. Just posted a question on FB. 

 

Hardly worthy of a jail sentence.

 

 

 

[mogandave]

Dissent must be crushed.

[Chomper Higgot]

6 hours ago, JonnyF said:

 

 What did he say that was racist? He repeated Rayner's comment and then asked a question what will happen when they arrive. Debates often start with such questions.  

 

No calls for violence. He didn't even attend a protest. Just posted a question on FB. 

 

Hardly worthy of a jail sentence.

 

 

 

So why did he plead guilty?