Swiss man paws for thought after dog bites on Thai beach (video)

[IslandLover]

2 hours ago, kwilco said:

THere is NO COUNTRY IN THE WORLD where culiing has worked.

To suggest it's carried out in the UK - is complete nonsense. THe roaming dog population in UK is a fraction of Thailandd's due to well established reasons - stray dogs are caught in very small numbers kept and rehoused or euthanised - that is not a cull. 

 

There are no stray dogs in the Netherlands.  Go figure .....

[richard_smith237]

48 minutes ago, kwilco said:

As soon as someone starts bandying about the word "expert" in a derogatory manner you know they have realised they have no idea what they are talking about

 

Should have used the term 'wanna-be-expert' but figured you'd at least identify with the sarcasm... 

 

You often miss the cultural nuances of an issue and quote textbook ideology which when faced with realism is quickly left wanting.

 

 

48 minutes ago, kwilco said:

 

Almost everything you say is either wrong or contradicting yourself – you clearly have never studied the roaming dog problem in Thailand

 

Culling the dogs doesn't work.

 

 

Where specifically dogs are concerned 'Culling'... or removing and housing / euthanising...  its Same thing.... 

... Removing the roaming canine population from the streets....  

 

You are narrow mindedly viewing 'culling' as it is with rats or vermin population in rural area's where they are pests etc.. which is not the same as dealing with the dog issue in cities.

 

Use whichever terms you are comfortable with - the issue needs to be dealt with - dogs need to be taken off the streets and removed from areas where they can attack humans.

I don't care how that is done...   but others do, because they are dog lovers... fair enough - but they lack the realism of the issue.

 

For the near and long term dogs roaming the streets of cities is an issue - and that needs resolution.

 

48 minutes ago, kwilco said:

Yes it does - why are there no stray dogs in the UK ?

 

You don’t see how illogical that is???? The UK has never had a roaming dog population on the same scale as Thailand.

 

The UK had plenty of 'roaming dogs'..  stray dogs and dogs which had homes, but were free to roam...   they became such an issue they were dealt with by local council policy, either removed and either destroyed, reclaimed or rehoused....  usually destroyed after being in a 'dogs home' for a set period of time.

 

48 minutes ago, kwilco said:

Culling doesn’t work – it actually increases the problem in a relatively short period of time. The only place culls work is on small islands (e.g. rats or invasive species)

 

Rubbish - the issue is extreme enough in Thailand to warrant serious measures.

IF all street dogs in Thailand were removed and euthanised (culled) the issue would not exists today to the same extent it does...  the culling would achieve its aims.

 

Steps then need to be taken to ensure the issue 'more stray dogs' did not return.

Stop people feeding strays - continue with CNVR on manageable levels (if it can be afforded), or simply continue with catch and euthanise (cull) and ensure there are no stray canine populations...  

 

You seem to think 'cull' is a one off...  whereas its a continue control measure - a harsh one, nevertheless a necessary evil to ensure the standard of living and safety of society on a whole. 

 

48 minutes ago, kwilco said:

The population of stray dogs to be reduced to manageable proportions requires control of the food supply and an effective CNVR program.

 

And who pays for the CNVR programs (who pays for neutering & vaccination) ??

Its too costly, there are too many dogs.

 

Catch them, send them to Vietnam...   thats what they used to do ( for profit ).

OR, catch and Kill them... 

 

I agree that Catch, Neuter, Vaccinate and Release will work and prevent future populations, but then how can you tell a dog is neutered and vaccinated - it requires additional resources... more cost.

 

Thus: the answer is no dogs on the streets - none whatsoever, not even returned (CNVR) dogs.

 

And thats shows why you don't understand the problem as it exists in Thailand as you fail to bring in the economics - the cheapest solution is the only one in a developing nation, otherwise there is no solution which functions with consistent results.

 

 

48 minutes ago, kwilco said:

 

“Who are underfunded and cannot resolve the issue - they just feed the problem.”

“ – HOW?? – in fact Soi Dog Foundation have ridden Phuket of rabies and reduced the stray dog population from 70000 to 7000 by CNVR – but I’m guessing you haven’t noticed.

In BKK funded by donations and the BMA they are in the process of CNVR about 680000 dogs – again if you’ve noticed you didn’t understand how it happened.

 

“... I noted that an area of Bangkok that lived in hardly ever had stray dogs... I don't remember any around... walking at night or day time” –  you didn’t see any change – according to you, that’s “stupid”!

 

 

In one wealthy area - no dogs at all (why is that ?)... perhaps the wealthy donated a lot of the CNVR program nearby, though no dogs were returned to roam the same streets from which they were taken... perhaps the local MC guys were paid to deal with the issue and they just killed them.

 

In another area, less affluent, but nearby, there were strays all over... a danger to kids and motorcyclist etc... 

 

 

Stray dogs are all over other area's of Bangkok... as you pointed out 680,000 of them - Soi dog foundations are in the process of catching them, neutering them, vaccinating them, and then what ???....    Return - back to the streets... 

OK - they can't mate...  so there will be no stray dogs in Bangkok in 10 years right ?

 

Wrong - the foundations have only so much funds...   how many times do they spend resources catching the same dog only to find out its one they've neutered and vaccinated ? (wasted resources)....

 

 

48 minutes ago, kwilco said:

 

Turkey

As of July 2024, Turkey is debating a new law that would require municipalities to collect stray dogs and house them in shelters for vaccination, neutering, and spaying. The dogs would then be available for adoption, but any that are terminally ill, infectious, aggressive, or pose a health risk to humans would be euthanized. The legislation was drawn up by the ruling conservative AK Party. 

The bill has been called a "massacre law" by activists, who argue that it would result in the mass extermination of unadopted dogs. Some say that the government has misread the national mood and has begun to back down from the original plan. The legislation that was introduced in July 2024 is a watered-down version of the initial proposal, which reportedly called for the strays to be euthanized if they were not adopted within 30 days. The new legislation would put to sleep strays who are at risk of rabies, have become aggressive, or cannot be rehabilitated. 

Some say that local municipalities are largely to blame for the country's stray dog problem because they have failed to neuter the dogs in their areas. Others say that at least 75 people, including 44 children, have been killed as a result of attacks or by traffic accidents caused by dogs since 2022

 

 

On a comparison of Country size, population, and amount of stray dogs - Thailand issue is 3x worse... 

 

Additionally, There are more dogs noticed on the streets in Thailand in areas of high population density because they do not deal with the issue... 

 

The issue is less visible in area's such as Turkey because its already being dealt and that is being politicised now...  (they have always dealt with dogs but not to extent needed - just like Thailand 10 years ago when a half hearted attempt to cull street dogs was carried out)

 

Again - deal with the issue properly (nationwide cull / or catch & euthanise if you prefer those words) - not nice at all... but as mentioned, sometimes tough things have to be done.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[richard_smith237]

14 minutes ago, IslandLover said:

2 hours ago, kwilco said:

THere is NO COUNTRY IN THE WORLD where culiing has worked.

To suggest it's carried out in the UK - is complete nonsense. THe roaming dog population in UK is a fraction of Thailandd's due to well established reasons - stray dogs are caught in very small numbers kept and rehoused or euthanised - that is not a cull. 

 

There are no stray dogs in the Netherlands.  Go figure .....

 

Perfect in a smaller country with far greater public funds.... 

 

If Thailand could achieve the same results here that the netherlands acheived, it would have done so already....  It just can't afford to...

 

 

... Well, that, and those in positions of decision making power can't be bothered because their focus is on syphoning off public funds or the issue is out of mind as they are never walking anywhere anyway !

[Bday Prang]

On 8/19/2024 at 3:50 PM, neverere said:

Where do you suggest the dogs are 'removed' to? Also Thailand does, as a rule, not destroy dogs. 

i would suggest cambodia, very few problems with dogs there!

[Bday Prang]

4 hours ago, GroveHillWanderer said:

Are you sure about that? According to the article below, it is illegal to euthanize dogs in Thailand unless they have rabies. 

 

 

Thailand's Stray Dogs - Off the streets

several years ago drug dealers were euthanized in Thailand following orders from Mr Square face.  Who on earth is going to lose any sleep over these filthy disease ridden hounds.  Gas them all 

[novacova]

5 minutes ago, Bday Prang said:

i would suggest cambodia, very few problems with dogs there!

I’m not too sure about that, it depends on the cook.

[Bday Prang]

Dogs  should never be allowed anywhere near a beach for god's sake.   Not only are they a bite risk for everybody but their disgusting excrement is also a source of some possibly fatal infections.       Any dog with no collar  should be shot on sight

[novacova]

1 minute ago, Bday Prang said:

several years ago drug dealers were euthanized in Thailand following orders from Mr Square face.  Who on earth is going to lose any sleep over these filthy disease ridden hounds.  Gas them all 

Several years ago? A batch of smugglers were mowed down and euthanized last year on the TH/Myanmar border in the Maeai area if memory serves me right.

[Bday Prang]

4 minutes ago, novacova said:

I’m not too sure about that, it depends on the cook.

Well i guess there could be issues regarding seasoning, or cooking times for example , but as it is  "traditional"  fayre most "chefs" would have no problem following a recipe that has been passed down from mother to daughter for generations

[Bday Prang]

4 minutes ago, novacova said:

Several years ago? A batch of smugglers were mowed down and euthanized last year on the TH/Myanmar border in the Maeai area if memory serves me right.

It doesn't surprise me,  but I bet there was nowhere near the same public outcry to  that we hear whenever somebody suggests dealing with these filthy dogs in a similar manner

[paulikens]

10 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

They don't, really?...

"A Thai man, 74 year old Champ Manatae, revealed to the media that his home and restaurant were near the beach. He stated that the dogs had bitten both Thai and foreign people.

 

Another Thai national, 51 year old Sunan Chartchai, disclosed that locals and foreigners in the area previously participated in a beach-cleaning activity a few years ago. However, they no longer dared to engage in any beach activities due to the presence of the dogs.

 

Business operators who run accommodation and restaurants along the beach also voiced their concerns, fearing that they might soon lose customers if the dogs continued to wander freely and bite people.

But it took a foreigner to complain for them to speak up, thus proving my point. 

[richard_smith237]

11 minutes ago, Bday Prang said:

Dogs  should never be allowed anywhere near a beach for god's sake.   Not only are they a bite risk for everybody but their disgusting excrement is also a source of some possibly fatal infections.       Any dog with no collar  should be shot on sight

 

I tend to agree....    Though wouldn't want people walking around with guns shooting at what they think are dogs....  hence, catch and cull (sorry, euthanise)...  And if sufficient funds available, neuter, vaccinate and 'home'....  **(CNVR is wrong... CNVHE - should be the policy - 'catch - Neuter - Vaccinate - Home or Euthanase'....   

 

... though, that would never pass as softies can't allow the euthanise option as they lack reality and fail to see that no one wants to home and old street dog... 

...So, If public funds are available, home in a foundation where the neutered dogs can live out their days.... 

... But... that can't be the case for millions of animals - so there can only be one practical situation, but for a lucky few who can be homed via foundations.

 

 

Another point: A collar could have 'fallen off'...   but I suspect such a brutal policy would make 'caring owners' certain that their dog cannot get out into public areas... and, if someones dog did get out into pubic area's without a collar, well, I guess the owners were not that caring anyway.

 

 

[Fortean1]

13 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

When dogs repeatedly bite people, they should be put down. Plain and simple. If the owner refuses to control them and keep them on leashes, they are a hazard and a danger. Dogs that cannot be controlled should never be put above the safety of people. Period. Take them out. 

It seems the Thais have a belief that dogs could be reincarnated aunts and uncles.  That seems an awkward and backward way of thinking.  My nephew let a dog they brought from the countryside to Lat Phrao in Bangkok to roam freely at night.  The dog bit a boy and my nephew had to pay the medical bill.  Soon after the dog was poisoned.  I told him that in America he would be charged.  He couldn't get it through his head.  He now has a Doctorate and still thinks that way.  Our family taxi guy showed me on his phone 15 or 16 dogs he cares for.  He thinks he is doing the right thing.  These are let out of the yard often.  My nephew was aghast when I pointed to a puppy in the home village that I said should be put down.  It was partly or fully blind, could not walk much at all, had mange, and was not living a good life.  It is a cultural thing.

Edited August 20 by Fortean1

[Bday Prang]

6 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

I tend to agree....    Though wouldn't want people walking around with guns shooting at what they think are dogs....  hence, catch and cull (sorry, euthanise)...  And if sufficient funds available, neuter, vaccinate and 'home'....  **(CNVR is wrong... CNVHE - should be the policy - 'catch - Neuter - Vaccinate - Home or Euthanase'....   

 

... though, that would never pass as softies can't allow the euthanise option as they lack reality and fail to see that no one wants to home and old street dog... 

...So, If public funds are available, home in a foundation where the neutered dogs can live out their days.... 

... But... that can't be the case for millions of animals - so there can only be one practical situation, but for a lucky few who can be homed via foundations.

 

Another point: A collar could have 'fallen off'...   but I suspect such a brutal policy would make 'caring owners' certain that their dog cannot get out into public areas... and, if someones dog did get out into pubic area's without a collar, well, I guess the owners were not that caring anyway.

 

 

       Agreed, I don't think authorising the general public to shoot dogs is the way to go, most don't appear to have the stomach for it anyway,   but officially appointed dog control officers would be the way forward.  No need to pay them mega bucks as there would be no shortage of applicants ( as long as the uniform looked the part)      There is no point in releasing these animals once they have been caught,  Save the money that would be wasted on vaccinations and castrations and simply destroy them.

        Collars may , very rarely, fall off. but it should not be beyond the scope of any responsible owner to keep an eye on that, especially as  it would be easily noticed when they try to clip the lead on.  Dogs should not be out on the streets on their own , collared or not.     Gas every last one of them as far as I am concerned      

[Mahseer]

I know the owner who I believe is Austrian if it makes any difference and his dogs of which numbered 5 when I was last in Bang Saphan 3 of which are full size Thai ridgebacks and the others are Bangkaew. He walks them every morning at 6 on the beach (he lives 100 yards back) and never are the dogs on a lead. He's had the police called on him more than once before but each time 'settlements are arranged' but this is the first time I've heard of his dogs attacking anyone. 

[Fortean1]

12 hours ago, khunpeer said:

there is certainly civilization here, it's called Buddhism.

cannot kill other creatures, period!

always comparing with how things are done back home.

why don't you appreciate what is here instead of moaning what is not?

waste of time...

Few Thai Buddhists are vegetarians.  When asked how they can eat meat some have replied "I did not kill the animal".  My grandparents had unleashed coon dogs along the White River in Indiana.  They did not have problems with their dogs chasing or biting people. 

[neverere]

8 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

As pointed out - its not a popular decision... but the obvious answer is 'destroy' them... 

 

"As a rule" ??...  Thailand breaks rules all the time... and there is no law against destroying stray animals...     

 

 

 

Actually, it is against the law harm or kill animals:  Thai penal code: Section 381 Whoever, cruelly ill-treats or kills an animal with unnecessary sufferings, shall be punished with imprisonment not exceeding one month or fined not exceeding one thousand Baht, or both. I have personally only ever heard of one case where this law was applied though.

[MrPhysio]

12 hours ago, Taboo2 said:

Any dog that run up to me, should expect to get whacked with my iron tool that I carry.  The owners should be aware also.

If there is a pack of dogs, definitely more than three and maybe as low as two - and you hurt one of them, the others come for you. If you go down or even if you run, things get very bad for you. I had a nasty dog experience where the pack leader began barking and growling (in a park area near Big Buddha Pattaya, and dogs appeared from everywhere. I am fairly certain there were more than 50, all barking and growling. I was alone. Eventually, they lost interest and went back into the undergrowth, except for the pack leader, who kept following me and growling. I quickly looked for an escape route that would not confront the dog, and it immediately bit my calf. the canine deeply punctured, and the other teeth cut my skin, causing bleeding through my clothing. 5 expensive rabies injections, immunoglobulin, and wound dressings followed. I am a pensioner, so expensive.

 

I wrote on the forums, and all I got was a tirade of dog lovers hating bitten humans. I am sure that if the Thais licensed a non-Buddhist per problem area to clean up the problem once a month with a quick bullet, the cost would not be high, like the failed programs to neuter the animals. A designated disposal arrangement could be organized. Or use the tourist police to supervise. There are enough ex-military here who know gun safety.

 

The people bitten did not cause the problem, so they should not be penalized. Poisoning is generally a very cruel death, so Thais may be more accepting. By the way, any market has chopped up chicken, beef, and pork, and some places have alligators and field rats, none of which died from old age. Therefore, the Buddhist argument does not seem to be sustainable.

Every couple of days, I see a pack of dogs chasing both Thai and tourists off a walking pavement into traffic. Up to a dozen 'pets' terrorize people walking. A local vendor feeds them in a bus parking area near Cozy Beach.

 

[kwilco]

2 hours ago, IslandLover said:

 

There are no stray dogs in the Netherlands.  Go figure .....

The Netherlands is the first country in the world without stray dogs, and has achieved this through a combination of programs and initiatives: without culling.

CNVR (Collect, Neuter, Vaccinate, and Return)

Edited August 20 by kwilco

[mania]

Thailand wants tourists & show beautiful beaches but do nothing to control dogs owned by none.

 

Why does Thailand have govt funded teams that rush to grab a snake but no such dog control?

Both can bite & cause death

Edited August 20 by mania

[Bday Prang]

50 minutes ago, neverere said:

Actually, it is against the law harm or kill animals:  Thai penal code: Section 381 Whoever, cruelly ill-treats or kills an animal with unnecessary sufferings, shall be punished with imprisonment not exceeding one month or fined not exceeding one thousand Baht, or both. I have personally only ever heard of one case where this law was applied though.

I'll take your word for it,  but if that is the actual wording (assuming nothing was lost in translation)  of this seldom enforced law  I see no legal issues with a nationwide cull.  It can be done "humanely" so unnecessary suffering  need not happen

[Bday Prang]

3 minutes ago, mania said:

Thailand wants tourists & show beautiful beaches but do nothing to control dogs owned by none.

 

Why does Thailand have govt funded teams that rush to grab a snake but no such dog control?

Both can bite & cause death

  Spot on ,    and treading in dog $h1t  happens a lot more than treading in the snakes version

[richard_smith237]

12 minutes ago, kwilco said:

2 hours ago, IslandLover said:

 

There are no stray dogs in the Netherlands.  Go figure .....

The Netherlands is the first country in the world without stray dogs, and has achieved this through a combination of programs and initiatives: without culling.

CNVR (Collect, Neuter, Vaccinate, and Return)

 

The GPD per capita of The Netherlands is  7.25x less more than that of Thailand...  (hopefully that needs no further explanation as to why that matters in this context).

 

Without sufficient funding, the same achievements cannot be realised in Thailand.

 

... And... what are you going to do.... Return 8.5 Million Stray dogs back to the streets of Thailand after they are collected (captured), Neutered & Vaccinated ?

 

C (Cull) / N (Neutralise) / V (Verminate) / R (Retire or Reave if you prefer !)

 

 

R (Return)... How will you (authorities) know to return what dogs to what neighbourhoods  ????.... 

 

8.5 million dogs fighting in their wrong territories anyone ?... ok, not the full 8.5 as they are not all alpha and terrotorial dominant etc... so what 10% of that.. its still mayhem - and they'll still live another 10 years or so, to continue biting, attacking etc...

 

 

There are people staring on the streets of Thailand... 

Give them a $ for a dead Dog...    cheapest solution. 

 

They'll all be out of a job in two weeks... but the authorities will save money on rabies vaccinations... and those '$ dog hunters' have something to go with or return to their plastic collections.

 

Who wants to see carts of dead dogs being carted off ??? no one... 

Do it at night....  like they used to.

 

Again - living in a civilised world means tough decisions. 

 

In many of the area's I'm in Pick pockets get the shyte kicked out of them when caught (either by the victim or the police)...  its only wokeness that allows such to continue in 'more developed nations' which may be taking a step back in reality of the humanity we live within...    too much digressoin there, but the point is to highlight softness doesn't always help us... 

... decisions are made against dichotomy, right counters wrong but for the right reasons...  its a tough world...   not pretty, not black and write and there's no need for it to be perfect - but aim for a generally safe environment - thats a basic human right IMO and worth more than the right of an animal...  but only because I'm human and want my family protected. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Bday Prang]

27 minutes ago, kwilco said:

The Netherlands is the first country in the world without stray dogs, and has achieved this through a combination of programs and initiatives: without culling.

CNVR (Collect, Neuter, Vaccinate, and Return)

And it would have happened a lot quicker and cost significantly less if they had removed the Neuter , Vaccinate, and especially the "return" part of the programme ,   It should have been simply a search and destroy operation.    There is absolutely  nothing to be gained by releasing stray dogs back out onto the streets once they have been trapped , whether vaccinated  ( which doesn't last forever) or neutered ( which does not stop them biting) These feral animals and their filthy excrement  are a blight .  Simple as that

[richard_smith237]

35 minutes ago, Bday Prang said:

I'll take your word for it,  but if that is the actual wording (assuming nothing was lost in translation)  of this seldom enforced law  I see no legal issues with a nationwide cull.  It can be done "humanely" so unnecessary suffering  need not happen

 

More importantly so that no unnecessary suffering of dogs need happen over the next 20 years... 

(as it been well over 20 years since this issue started being a major issue).. 

 

So... 8.5 million stray dogs in Thailand over 20 years... some of them have better lives than others, say what, 30% are looked after?

 

Thats 120 Million suffering dogs.....    and I'm sure the amount of suffering dogs my not be as high as 70% with 30% being well looked after, so say there only 10% of those dogs who would suffer and people become a lot more kind and look after the 90%...   Thats 17 Million dogs unnecessary suffering because their birth could have been controlled / prevented.

 

Aggregate Stats - aggregate approach,...     it doesn't tell the whole set of stories - but what is shown is that a lot of dogs are potentially suffering and when they do, the humans around them suffer to - and its all unnecessary and preventable if someone deals with an unpopular issue sooner rather than later (noting sooner was over 20 yeas ago where tik-tik was a wall, snap-chat earned a clip around the ear and facebook didn't ban anything outside its pretty walled garden of ideas'... 

 

 

Edited August 20 by richard_smith237

[Bday Prang]

5 hours ago, kwilco said:

THere is NO COUNTRY IN THE WORLD where culiing has worked.

To suggest it's carried out in the UK - is complete nonsense. THe roaming dog population in UK is a fraction of Thailandd's due to well established reasons - stray dogs are caught in very small numbers kept and rehoused or euthanised - that is not a cull. 

Of course culling works if its carried out properly, its used to control the populations of many different species,  however its not a one  hit solution and should be thought of as a continuous "work in progress" 

What happens in the UK is absolutely a cull.   It has just been cleverly disguised so as not to upset the usual objectors

The releasing of  stray dogs back out onto the streets under any circumstances has got to be one of  the stupidest things I have ever heard in my life

[richard_smith237]

8 minutes ago, Bday Prang said:

And it would have happened a lot quicker and cost significantly less if they had removed the Neuter , Vaccinate, and especially the "return" part of the programme ,   It should have been simply a search and destroy operation.    There is absolutely  nothing to be gained by releasing stray dogs back out onto the streets once they have been trapped , whether vaccinated  ( which doesn't last forever) or neutered ( which does not stop them biting) These feral animals and their filthy excrement  are a blight .  Simple as that

 

There is always a cloud with a sliver lining... 

 

Socialism has its wonders...  Someone needs to be employed to pick up the all the dog-shyte the released canines have slopped around the cities, towns and countryside.....   Job Creation - we could call it 'Paw Patrol'...  or just 'Paw Potty'... 

 

Then charge inflated rates for rabies vaccinations .. y'know, just incase the dog that cost you your severed finger was not vacated...   

 

Then have 'dog free parks'... Guards on every gate to catch the dogs,....  job creation, thats involves more guards than we can throw a candycrushing-<deleted>ty-stick at.... 

 

Dog free beaches...    easy that one... Slip em a bottle 'black cock' and they dog-fighting bravod kicks in sometime around 12.... ( midday or midnight, its unknown - so staggered delivery ensures round the cock (sorry) clock coverage...      and may be even breakfast for the late night crew out of sight of offended AM shoppers.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Bday Prang]

13 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

More importantly so that no unnecessary suffering of dogs need happen over the next 20 years... 

(as it been well over 20 years since this issue started being a major issue).. 

 

So... 8.5 million stray dogs in Thailand... some of them have better lives than others, say what, 30% are looked after?

 

Thats half a 120 Million suffering dogs.....    and I'm sure the amount of suffering dogs my not be as higt as 70% with 30% are well looked after, so say there only 10% of those dogs who would suffer and people become a lot more kind...   Thats 17 Million dogs unnecessary suffering because their birth could have been controlled. 

 

Aggregate Stats - aggregate approach,...     it doesnt tell the who set of stories - bit what is shown is a lot of dogs potentially suffereng and when they do, the humans around them suffer to - and its all unnecessary and preventable if someone deals with an unpopular issue sooner rather than later (noting sooner was over 20 yeas ago where tik-tik was a wall, snap-chat earned a clip around the ear and facebook didn't ban anything outside its pretty walled garden of ideas'... 

 

 

Sadly there are many  people who would strongly object to your plan to put an end  to dog suffering. Ironically they consider themselves "animal lovers"

[kwilco]

13 minutes ago, Bday Prang said:

Of course culling works if its carried out properly, its used to control the populations of many different species,  however its not a one  hit solution and should be thought of as a continuous "work in progress" 

What happens in the UK is absolutely a cull.   It has just been cleverly disguised so as not to upset the usual objectors

The releasing of  stray dogs back out onto the streets under any circumstances has got to be one of  the stupidest things I have ever heard in my life

No - you are completely wrong

[kwilco]

no conuntry has ever had a successful dog cull - 

Culling stray dog populations is ineffective in the long term.

 

 Here's why:  

Population rebound: Culling often leads to a rapid rebound in the stray dog population. This is because it disrupts the natural social structure of the pack, leading to increased breeding and territorial disputes. The result is strong dogs and more aggression as they take over – and an increased chance or rabies coming in from another area.

 

Ineffectiveness: Culling does not address the root causes of the stray dog problem, such as irresponsible pet ownership, lack of spay/neuter programs, and inadequate waste management.  

Ethical concerns: Many people object to culling on ethical grounds, viewing it as inhumane and a failure to find more peaceful solutions. Also culling is NEVER anywhere near 100% - can you imagine what BMA would do with 800,000 dog carcasses??

 

Catch-Neuter-Vaccinate-Return (CNVR) programs, on the other hand, have proven to be a more effective (and humane) approach to managing stray dog populations. Here's how it works:  

 

Capture: Stray dogs are humanely captured using traps or other methods.  

Neuter/spay: Dogs are sterilized to prevent future reproduction.

Vaccinate: Dogs are vaccinated against rabies and other diseases.

Return: Vaccinated and sterilized dogs are returned to their original location.

Over time, CNVR programs can significantly reduce the number of stray dogs in a community. Additionally, restricting the food supply can help to reduce the number of stray dogs. By making it more difficult for stray dogs to find food, people can discourage them from congregating in certain areas.  

 

SDF is doing this in various locations as we speak – targeting 680,000 dogs in BKK aone

 

It's important to note that both CNVR and food restriction should be implemented as part of a comprehensive strategy to address the stray dog problem. This strategy should also include responsible pet ownership education, spay/neuter programs, and adequate waste management.