US House Foreign Affairs Committee Report on the Afghanistan Withdrawal

[impulse]

There's been lots of discussion by people who never have, and never will read the actual report.  For anyone who cares to actually read it, here it is.  It's 353 pages, so not exactly a light (or unbiased- in an election year) read.

 

https://foreignaffairs.house.gov/getting-answers-on-afghanistan-withdrawal/

 

No comment on my part...

 

Edit:  There's a 15 page Executive Summary linked on the page.

 

 

 

Edited September 10 by impulse

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

Never should have gone into Afghanistan in the first place. Whose idea was that, anyway?

[impulse]

4 minutes ago, Etaoin Shrdlu said:

Never should have gone into Afghanistan in the first place. Whose idea was that, anyway?

 

One of the chief instigators of that fiasco (probably the main one) just endorsed Harris for President.

 

[riclag]

13 minutes ago, impulse said:

There's been lots of discussion by people who never have, and never will read the actual report.  For anyone who cares to actually read it, here it is.  It's 353 pages, so not exactly a light (or unbiased- in an election year) read.

 

https://foreignaffairs.house.gov/getting-answers-on-afghanistan-withdrawal/

 

No comment on my part...

 

Edit:  There's a 15 page Executive Summary linked on the page.

 

 

 

Thanks for the link!

It had to be one of the biggest botched pull outs since the Vietnam war! 
 

People falling off airplanes.

Military personnel being murdered.

 

From the source :

“Less than one year later, Russia launched a full invasion of Ukraine. Today, Iran’s proxies are conducting a brutal war against our ally Israel, attacking our servicemembers in the region, and threatening global trade in the Red Sea. And China continues to ratchet up aggression in the Indo-Pacific, including against Taiwan and the Philippines”.

 

Weak Weak chaotic bunch of idiots in control of the harris / biden administration!

 

 

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

1 hour ago, impulse said:

 

One of the chief instigators of that fiasco (probably the main one) just endorsed Harris for President.

 

The Republican candidate would have to be a particularly odious person for a staunch Republican like Dick Cheney to endorse  a female liberal Democrat for president.

[riclag]

41 minutes ago, Etaoin Shrdlu said:

The Republican candidate would have to be a particularly odious person for a staunch Republican like Dick Cheney to endorse  a female liberal Democrat for president.

Money and a axe to grind  usually  leads to shady deals for the family of Cheney , his daughter lost her seat in Congress substantially.Shady in looking for a seat at the table.imop

 

“Liz Cheney is hitting the campaign trail with millions of dollars at her disposal to defeat Donald Trump and down-ballot Republicans, aggressively taking on the MAGA movement that dominates a party where she, and her father, are no longer welcome”.

https://www.politico.com/news/2024/09/09/liz-cheney-trump-kamala-harris-00178093

Edited September 10 by riclag

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

17 minutes ago, riclag said:

Money and a axe to grind  usually  leads to shady deals for the family of Cheney , his daughter lost her seat in Congress substantially.Shady in looking for a seat at the table.imop

 

“Liz Cheney is hitting the campaign trail with millions of dollars at her disposal to defeat Donald Trump and down-ballot Republicans, aggressively taking on the MAGA movement that dominates a party where she, and her father, are no longer welcome”.

https://www.politico.com/news/2024/09/09/liz-cheney-trump-kamala-harris-00178093

 

Yup. Republicans through and through.

[riclag]

6 minutes ago, Etaoin Shrdlu said:

 

Yup. Republicans through and through.

Thanks for your time & effort 

Edited September 10 by riclag

[mogandave]

2 hours ago, Etaoin Shrdlu said:

The Republican candidate would have to be a particularly odious person for a staunch Republican like Dick Cheney to endorse  a female liberal Democrat for president.

Or the father loves the daughter and is doing what he can to salvage her career. I think she lost by forty points to her Trump supported opponent. 

 

Also, Dick Chaney has to really hate Trump for his comments on the Bush Administration and  Iraq. 

 

So is  Liz Chaney’s in the Harris Administration? 

 

[riclag]

13 military  personnel who died as a result of the chaotic  pullout in Afghanistan were honored today with the Congressional Gold  Medal  , just about everybody was in attendance .

 

https://www.newsnationnow.com/us-news/military/congress-honor-troops-killed-afghanistan-withdrawal/

[Ultrathai]

8 hours ago, Etaoin Shrdlu said:

The Republican candidate would have to be a particularly odious person for a staunch Republican like Dick Cheney to endorse  a female liberal Democrat for president.

Cheney does endorse Harris for president.   Harris was the architect of the failed Afghan withdrawal.

 

8 hours ago, Etaoin Shrdlu said:

The Republican candidate would have to be a particularly odious person for a staunch Republican like Dick Cheney to endorse  a female liberal Democrat for president.

 

[Ultrathai]

4 hours ago, riclag said:

13 military  personnel who died as a result of the chaotic  pullout in Afghanistan were honored today with the Congressional Gold  Medal  , just about everybody was in attendance .

 

https://www.newsnationnow.com/us-news/military/congress-honor-troops-killed-afghanistan-withdrawal/

Except Kamala Harris of course.

[ignore it]

Thanks Pres. Bush,  for the US$ 2,000,000,000,000. of treasure spent on the war in Afganistan. It could have been wasted on roads and bridges.

 

Thanks Joe for leaving US$ 7,000,000,000 worth of stuff for the Taliban. It could have been sent to Ukraine.

 

Sincerely,

Lockheed Martin, Boeing, General Dynamics, Raytheon Technologies, Northrop Grumman, Oshkosh Corporation, and the families of the 2,461 U.S. military personnel killed in action, the 3,800 U.S. contractors killed and the 20,000 wounded.

[Wrwest]

13 hours ago, Etaoin Shrdlu said:

Never should have gone into Afghanistan in the first place. Whose idea was that, anyway?

As an American, I supported military action being taken against Afghanistan. My decision was based on Afghanistan's government allowing the training camps enabling the 9-11 terrorists. But what I wanted to see was a mass punishment by air sending the message of overwhelming retribution for any country allowing such. I opposed any occupation and certainly any notion of developing a participatory democracy in any country without the history allowing the development of such covenant. While I was open for the case of pushing Iraq back to its border out of Kuwait, I opposed military action, including occupation in Iraq. I condemn anyone using those who gave their lives for political campaigning ... understand, investigate any mishandling by anyone but do not use this purposely, as is being done now, for some perceived political advantage.

Edited September 11 by Wrwest

[tmd5855]

1 hour ago, Wrwest said:

As an American, I supported military action being taken against Afghanistan. My decision was based on Afghanistan's government allowing the training camps enabling the 9-11 terrorists. But what I wanted to see was a mass punishment by air sending the message of overwhelming retribution for any country allowing such. I opposed any occupation and certainly any notion of developing a participatory democracy in any country without the history allowing the development of such covenant. While I was open for the case of pushing Iraq back to its border out of Kuwait, I opposed military action, including occupation in Iraq. I condemn anyone using those who gave their lives for political campaigning ... understand, investigate any mishandling by anyone but do not use this purposely, as is being done now, for some perceived political advantage.

Agree with your reasoning on Afghanistan and Iraq.

Russia installed a government in Kabul that lasted 8 years, the US installed one lasted around 8hours!!

Iraq.... Saddam were given the green light for Kuwait by our female ambassador who likened it to an internal domestic affair.  Saddam kept Iran in 'check' even getting the 'Ayatollah' to sign a peace treaty.  Getting rid of Saddam now seems a bad move, a very bad move.

Before anyone says he were an evil dictator, well so were 'Mugabe' never seen suggested he should be removed for his human rights abuses.

[fceligoj]

Your title is a misnomer.  It should read "The Republican congressmen in the Foreign Affairs Committee's Report."  As some of others are pointing their fingers at so and so.  It was the Republicans under Bush that essentially invaded Afghanistan (after Iraq.)  Then Trump made an agreement with the Taliban, something that was impossible to excute, and left it in the hands of the incoming Democratic president and his staff.  And of course, he and his cronies are blaming the 'other side.'  Wasn't it the Republicans that propped up Karzai?  Oh yes, the Republicans.

 

Enough is enough.  Let's look forward like Harris is advocating.

 

[riclag]

7 hours ago, Ultrathai said:

Except Kamala Harris of course.

And the Potus !

Edited September 11 by riclag

[Acharn]

19 hours ago, Etaoin Shrdlu said:

Never should have gone into Afghanistan in the first place. Whose idea was that, anyway?

Bush 43's... or maybe Darth Cheney's. In the hysteria after September 11, 2001, they felt they had to "do something," and invading Afghanistan was "something." By itself it wasn't a bad idea. Bin Laden probably had nothing to do with the Twin Towers, but he took credit for them, and the initial invasion chased him and al Qaeda and the Taliban out of Afghanistan. They should have quit then, but American donors decided they wanted the trillion dollars worth of minerals locked up in undeveloped, roadless places. The American people loved it, but were soon watching Iraq and forgot about Afghanistan, allowing the MIC to start their 20-year long war. I don't blame Bush for the problems encountered in the withdrawal, but blame the Pentagon and all high ranking Army officers. The Pentagon should have had detailed contingency plans for withdrawal, constantly updated, from the moment we decided to send Special Forces troops into the country. This was especially true after Trump started negotiating with the Taliban. I'm pretty sure we have contingency plans to invade Mexico, Canada, and Fiji. It used to be we had contingency plans for every conceivable event. There were giants in the land in those days /sarc.

Edited September 11 by Acharn

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

7 minutes ago, Acharn said:

Bush 43's... or maybe Darth Cheney's. In the hysteria after September 11, 2001, they felt they had to "do something," and invading Afghanistan was "something." By itself it wasn't a bad idea. Bin Laden probably had nothing to do with the Twin Towers, but he took credit for them, and the initial invasion chased him and al Qaeda and the Taliban out of Afghanistan. They should have quit then, but American donors decided they wanted the trillion dollars worth of minerals locked up in undeveloped, roadless places. The American people loved it, but were soon watching Iraq and forgot about Afghanistan, allowing the MIC to start their 20-year long war. I don't blame Bush for the problems encountered in the withdrawal, but blame the Pentagon and all high ranking Army officers. The Pentagon should have had detailed contingency plans for withdrawal, constantly updated, from the moment we decided to send Special Forces troops into the country. This was especially true after Trump started negotiating with the Taliban. I'm pretty sure we have contingency plans to invade Mexico, Canada, and Fiji. It used to be we had contingency plans for every conceivable event. There were giants in the land in those days /sarc.

 

That's right. The US public wanted vengeance and it did not matter much who Bush 43 went after.  It was probably ok to go after al Qaeda in Afghanistan, but it just chased OBL into Pakistan where he was protected by the Pakistani intelligence services. 

 

US military had no plan for nation-building as that's never been their remit, yet they spent 20 years and trillions trying.

 

43 got us in with no plan to get out. He had seven years to come up with something.

 

Obama had eight years and he also could not figure it out.

 

Trump had four years and managed to sign the surrender agreement with a very unrealistic timeframe for exiting.

 

Biden inherited Trump's flawed timetable and had six months to comply and not much wiggle room under the terms of the agreement.

 

And the Republicans want to say it's all Biden's fault?

[simple1]

11 hours ago, Ultrathai said:

Harris was the architect of the failed Afghan withdrawal.

 

Credible link to backup your claim? below are the facts regards US withdrawal from Afghanistan. Personally I do not understand how Biden can be personally blamed for a suicide bomb attack, nor why those murdered were awarded the Congressional Gold Medal.

 

The Gold Medal seeks to impart the highest expression of national appreciation for distinguished achievements and contributions by individuals or institutions

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congressional_Gold_Medal

[thaibeachlovers]

6 hours ago, fceligoj said:

It was the Republicans under Bush that essentially invaded Afghanistan (after Iraq.) 

????????????? Afghanistan came first, then Iraq.

[thaibeachlovers]

2 hours ago, Etaoin Shrdlu said:

 

That's right. The US public wanted vengeance and it did not matter much who Bush 43 went after.  It was probably ok to go after al Qaeda in Afghanistan, but it just chased OBL into Pakistan where he was protected by the Pakistani intelligence services. 

 

US military had no plan for nation-building as that's never been their remit, yet they spent 20 years and trillions trying.

 

43 got us in with no plan to get out. He had seven years to come up with something.

 

Obama had eight years and he also could not figure it out.

 

Trump had four years and managed to sign the surrender agreement with a very unrealistic timeframe for exiting.

 

Biden inherited Trump's flawed timetable and had six months to comply and not much wiggle room under the terms of the agreement.

 

And the Republicans want to say it's all Biden's fault?

The buck stops at the incumbent's desk. If Biden thought it was unworkable he could have cancelled it. He had no trouble cancelling Trump's agreements with Mexico re illegals.

It happened on his watch so he owns it.

[impulse]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

The buck stops at the incumbent's desk. If Biden thought it was unworkable he could have cancelled it. He had no trouble cancelling Trump's agreements with Mexico re illegals.

It happened on his watch so he owns it.

 

If the first few pages of the executive summary are correct, it's worse than that.  The Doha agreement called out conditions to be met before leaving.  The conditions were not being met, but Biden made the choice to withdraw anyway.  No way he can legitimately blame that on Trump.  Of course, if you read only the MSM, everything bad that's happened since 2015 is Trump's fault.

 

The Biden-Harris administration was determined to withdraw from Afghanistan, with or without the Doha Agreement and no matter the cost. Accordingly, they ignored the conditions in the Doha Agreement, pleas of the Afghan government, and the objections by our NATO allies, deciding to unilaterally withdraw from the country.

 

Edited September 11 by impulse

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

The House Republicans have their unfailingly partisan political opinion for what transpired and why.

 

The U.S. government's Special Inspector General for Afghan Reconstruction had a different opinion:

Inspector General Blames Trump’s Taliban Deal for Afghan Collapse

Although the report criticized the Trump administration’s deal with the Taliban, it also highlighted severe structural deficiencies in the Afghan security forces.

 

May 19, 2022

 

"The Special Inspector General for Afghan Reconstruction (SIGAR), the task force assigned to review U.S. spending in Afghanistan, said in its quarterly report that it believes the abrupt collapse of the U.S.-backed Afghan government was in large part due to the deal the Trump administration made with the Taliban in February 2020. [emphasis added]

 

The report, which was released on Wednesday, argued that the deal had been the “single most important near-term factor” explaining the Afghan security forces’ disintegration during the Taliban’s offensive in the summer of 2021. It described the impending departure of U.S. forces as a “catalyst” that intensified Afghan forces’ existing problems, including persistent low morale and a perception that the government’s defeat was inevitable.

 

Gen. Sami Sadat, a former Afghan National Army (ANA) general interviewed by SIGAR investigators, claimed that the signing of the deal—in which American negotiators promised that U.S. troops would withdraw from the country by May 2021—had an outsized “psychological impact” on “the average Afghan soldier,” motivating them to enter “survival mode and bec[ome] susceptible to accepting other officers and deals.”

 

(more)

 

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/inspector-general-blames-trump’s-taliban-deal-afghan-collapse-202534

 

 

 

[riclag]

5 hours ago, impulse said:

 

If the first few pages of the executive summary are correct, it's worse than that.  The Doha agreement called out conditions to be met before leaving.  The conditions were not being met, but Biden made the choice to withdraw anyway.  No way he can legitimately blame that on Trump.  Of course, if you read only the MSM, everything bad that's happened since 2015 is Trump's fault.

 

The Biden-Harris administration was determined to withdraw from Afghanistan, with or without the Doha Agreement and no matter the cost. Accordingly, they ignored the conditions in the Doha Agreement, pleas of the Afghan government, and the objections by our NATO allies, deciding to unilaterally withdraw from the country.

 

Mike Johnson gave precise , articulate answers to Tapper about the disaster 

of the biden /harris pull out .

Tapper : Do you hold the Trump Administration responsible for the way the US got out of that war?

 

Johnson: No , They used testimony from witnesses & facts from the investigation .

 

 more

 

 

Edited September 11 by riclag

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Johnson is an overt Trump partisan and acolyte who wouldn't hold Trump responsible for anything anti-Trumpish, including the end of the U.S.'s presence in Afghanistan.

 

Examples:

Trump’s private demand to Johnson: Help overturn my conviction

...

"It’s a campaign he orchestrated in the days after his May 30 conviction on 34 felony counts in New York, starting with a phone call to the man he wanted to lead it: Speaker Mike Johnson.

...

Johnson sympathized with Trump’s frustration. He’d been among the first batch of Republican lawmakers to appear alongside Trump at the Manhattan trial. He’d been harping on Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg’s case and the alleged broader abuse of the justice system since before he took the gavel. [emphasis added]

 

The speaker didn’t really need to be convinced, one person familiar with the conversation said: Johnson, a former attorney himself, already believed the House had a role to play in addressing Trump’s predicament. The two have since spoken on the subject multiple times."

 

https://www.politico.com/news/2024/06/13/donald-trump-conviction-mike-johnson-00163128

 

Along with:

Speaker Johnson says Trump ‘clearly prevailed’ in debate

"House Speaker Mike Johnson (R-La.) said that former President Trump “clearly prevailed” in the Tuesday ABC News debate against Vice President Harris, praising his “authenticity” and arguing the moderators leaned in favor of the Democratic nominee.

 

“Well, I will tell you what, President Donald Trump is the reigning presidential debate champion, and even though the contest was three to one last night, he clearly prevailed,” Johnson said during his Wednesday morning appearance on FOX Business Network’s Mornings With Maria with guest anchor Cheryl Casone."

 

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4874212-trump-harris-debate-speaker-mike-johnson/

 

Johnson is delusional! 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

For anyone with eyes to read, it was obvious that the Afghan army was an illusion, and the whole thing was going to go down the gurgler once the allies pulled out- what a waste, but they should have left after destroying the Taliban. The 20 year occupation was a disaster that should never have happened, IMO.

My beef isn't that the Afghan army collapsed ( IMO that was inevitable ), but that Biden made such a cock up of the withdrawal. Leaving all that equipment intact should have resulted in courts martial for the generals, and leaving so many Afghans that helped the allies is inexcusable.