Don’t kill the golden goose! Tax reforms may drive away expats

[Sig]

50 minutes ago, Presnock said:

There was a note in US news today, forgot source but I will pass it on anyway - US folks lost over 5 BILLION dollars in cryptocurrencies last year - doesn't sound that attractive to me.

You are free to believe what you like from the mass media. Notice that they never told you how many billions US folks lost on the NYSE? Notice that they didn't define who those people were... I can pretty much guarantee you that they were idiot traders who are among the 90%+ of traders who lose their money. In other words, they are not the people who have been invested in Bitcoin. Their stat is a manipulation to support their narrative. In 2023, Bitcoin went up 156%! How do people lose billions in a bull market like that?? Gold and the Dow Jones, in the same time period went up about 13%. The S&P performed better, but still VERY far from Bitcoin, at nearly 24%. Billions upon billions are not being poured into bitcoin by ETFs and other billionaires, like Larry Fink (Blackrock), for no reason.
But there's a narrative and the mass media is sticking to it. Any guess why? There are definitely reasons.
Even Goldman Sachs has admitted that Bitcoin/Crypto has outperformed stocks, massively. But, for one reason or another, they still believe that in the long-term, gold will outperform crypto. They didn't give any confidence in stock. Since 2020, crypto has outperformed gold by 40%! and the S&P by 59%! Those are not small numbers and not over a small volatile time period. But believe what you like, it's a free world (not really...).
The US News might not make it "sound that attractive" to you, but you would be much better off to invest your money (and ideas/opinions) through your own research than by manipulative media doing the same old thing they always do. I'm glad I didn't listen to their narrative back in 2018... up about 800% so far... And cashed out some other coins for short term that did even better, but wouldn't recommend other coins to anyone other than people who have been in it for a while and understand it well.

[Aussie999]

5 hours ago, bdenner said:

Those of us that do our annual visa extensions by the book will be looking at what the dodgy visa agents and corrupt IO's will be doing to circumvent this BS.

You must be a lot of fun.... Not.

Geez mate, just get off expats backs, and get on with your own life... Grow up.

[NedR69]

2 hours ago, MalcolmB said:

So you are the golden goose they are referring to.

Do you think after one year you will be missed or even remembered?

 

As for your golden goose or missing me questions, NO and WFC's.

I listed my top reasons and this proposed BS headache is the final straw. 

 

But regarding finances, take this simple example.  850k in Thai bank vs same amount in a CD only earning 4 % for the previous 24 months in my country.  I'd have about 70k THB more today.

 

I'm sure Thailand for some, is overwhelming a better option than the chyte hole where they are from...but not for me.

My top 3 reasons is clean air, water and safety, with a slew of other crap to deal with here.  The proposed tax, would unlikely  impact me, and if it did likely only a small amount.  And that is a good enough reason with all the other crap in this country.  

[Aussie999]

4 hours ago, WoodyKenny said:

Oh it's on.. They just killed their future to Build and Buy housing. Gotta be more than 500 homes on the market for sale in Hua Hin area alone.  And to you that feel we don't pay our fair share. In 2022 alone Thailand Tourist brought in 1.2 TRILLION Thai Baht to the GDP.  Let's say you now as we don't contribute. I'm sure the Philippines or Vietnam would love that cash!   With a Failed system you get Greed...

20% of Thailand's GDP is from tourism.. that is a big slice.

[Captor]

3 hours ago, NedR69 said:

Less than a month and I'm out.  F this crap and all the snowflakes. If you leave too, start thinking now how to move your money OUT of a Thai bank.  Wise doesn't do that.  Dee money sucks, and many are still waiting for their transfer to process several weeks after initiating the transfer.  WU fee is ok, but their rate sucks.  Swift transfer may be the best option.  Plan now, if you have 800k or more to move out.

 

It's not just the new tax law, but it will be the last nail in the coffin and I'm not waiting around to find out. Even if it doesn't go thru, I've had it here to the point of deciding to go. 

 

Insanity...doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

 

I see better options that have clean air, safer to drive/travel/live, and equally affordable.

 

Less than a month, and counting!

 

How about Remitly, Remedy or XBATH? Are they sending OUT of Thailand? We need to find the best way to do that otherwise it must be SWIFT.

[fceligoj]

My conclusion, Thailand does not like expats even though those expats produce more revenue than a majority of the Thais.  When you go to the bank and see some vender depositing a bundle of 1,000 baht bills, it is a guarantee that no tax will be levied.  You can see it also where expats savings account interest is taxed while Thas aren't taxed.  How do I know?  My wife's account at BBL is not taxed for deposits or interest paid.  Where is the equality they are talking about?

 

Most of us would also agree that any cash and carry business in Thailand is not taxed since tax collectig is voluntary.  I doubt if any of the small business owners are paying taxes and they probably don't withhold inome tax from their enployees' pay.

 

And if they want to tax expats' worldwide income, then where are the benefits we shold be receiving, like medical insurance, dental plans, etc?  Or how about Thai Social Security (which is a joke within of itself?)

[Aussie999]

2 hours ago, Ralf001 said:

 

Sorry to hear you are a boomer.... not many years left for ya !

Why be so damn nasty... Surely you can be better than you come across as.

[Aussie999]

1 hour ago, motdaeng said:

 

but a lot ....

And a lot of younger one's as well.

[daveAustin]

There are many elites in power (and through Thai society) that do not want foreigners here long term. If this tax scares many of them away, I’m sure they’ll be delighted whether it costs the country or not. 

[CharlesHolzhauer]

53 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

 

Amen to that, as I am already planning my exit if it gets the nod of approval, e.g. paying tax on income remitted to Thailand from 1 January 2024, ok, granted, can't do much about that so to speak, but now they want to tax me on what I make overseas, NEVER going to happen, it will be time to move one and that will mean just over 1 million baht less revenue to Thailand per year.

 

20 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

 

Your not a very bright spark are you, try X's that by how many other Xpats are also considering leaving, and how much they contribute to Thailand's economy, obviously you didn't do well in math.

 

I shouldn't have to say that this would have a major impact, especially for investment in Thailand, anyways, back to your long neck.

Bright enough to read and respond to your original post. I'm not sorry if you're feeling embarrassed, as you should be.

[BritManToo]

3 hours ago, mrmicbkktxl said:

Since 2023 they can see everything and can get all information they need,I think it's called OECD CRS ,Thailand joined last year.

How would they identify YOUR bank accounts in a foreign country?

Bob Smith in Thailand could be any of 10,000 Bob Smith in the UK.

 

As we have no ID cards in the UK.

[mrmicbkktxl]

Just now, BritManToo said:

How would they identify YOUR bank accounts in a foreign country?

Bob Smith in Thailand could be any of 10,000 Bob Smith in the UK.

 

As we have no ID cards in the UK.

 

2 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

How would they identify YOUR bank accounts in a foreign country?

Bob Smith in Thailand could be any of 10,000 Bob Smith in the UK.

 

As we have no ID cards in the UK.

Your government knows already if you have an account here and they know how much money you have there,since 2023 tax offices are connected.If Thailand wants to know how much money you have in your home account they will know.You enter Thailand with passport,you extend with passport,90 day report with passport,etc. .I don't know how many expats are living in Thailand more than 180days but probably a lot.They will need a lot of manpower to check every expat

[couchpotato]

7 minutes ago, mrmicbkktxl said:

 

Your government knows already if you have an account here and they know how much money you have there,since 2023 tax offices are connected.If Thailand wants to know how much money you have in your home account they will know.You enter Thailand with passport,you extend with passport,90 day report with passport,etc. .I don't know how many expats are living in Thailand more than 180days but probably a lot.They will need a lot of manpower to check every expat

You are delusional..what rubbish you are posting.

[Jerry777]

US Social Security will not be taxed

[harryviking]

How can they even think about taxing people that are not even citizens of Thailand? Will they in that case receive free healthcare like Thais?? Will they receive a Thai passport if they so chose to have one? If the answer is "NO", these people should be fired as they must have smoked something strong lately!  😫😫

[Thaindrew]

24 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

How would they identify YOUR bank accounts in a foreign country?

Bob Smith in Thailand could be any of 10,000 Bob Smith in the UK.

 

As we have no ID cards in the UK.

its all linked to your tax id number, its almost impossible to open a bank account without providing one.

[decca60]

All this system was initially developed to oblige the Thai citizens having revenue abroad to declare it and pay tax on it. That was a fair move looking at the very low number of tax payers in Thailand. Nevertheless the real rich have organized themselves via foreign companies or financial arrangement and they will pay ZERO additional tax. We,  long term expats will be the collateral damages of this law. Based upon what I could identify with my tax consultant, I will pay 2.5 times more tax than in my mother country. Although there is a no double taxing agreement with my country of origin, I will have to pay my full tax in advance here and HOPE to be reimbursed of the difference by the RD. I say I'm hoping because after 10 years in Thailand I know how easy they are with getting the money and how difficult they also are to give it back. So I expect an administrative nightmare and never ending battles to get my money back. I just believe this law will be voted and enforced via two easy control ways. Immigration with visas and exiting the country only if you have a tax declaration, law which already exists and could be applied in one day. We already  had the insurance on OA visas, the forthcoming one on O visas, the visa types revision this year end etc...etc....This without speaking about the various costs in tax advisors, attorneys etc etc...No way to spend a fortune living in two countries for 6 months or any other headache...

I have worked hard to get what I have and there is no way to have a never ending Damocles sword over my head asking myself what will be the next hurdles in whatever. I love Thailand but I above all love my retirement peace of mind. So my decision is made, I will leave the country soon. I'm just sorry for the people who have families there or cannot afford changing country, they will be the real victim of an idiot system thought by idiot people. And all this for not getting a single additional right in exchange...

 

It wont change the world for Thailand but you will not get a single penny from me anymore. 

[Ralf001]

55 minutes ago, Aussie999 said:

Why be so damn nasty... Surely you can be better than you come across as.

Need a tissue to wipe your eye, Bro ?

[mrmicbkktxl]

13 minutes ago, couchpotato said:

You are delusional..what rubbish you are posting.

ok if you say so,google is your friend

111 countries are member already inc. Thailand they exchannge  automaticly informations

[MarkBR]

15 minutes ago, harryviking said:

How can they even think about taxing people that are not even citizens of Thailand? Will they in that case receive free healthcare like Thais?? Will they receive a Thai passport if they so chose to have one? If the answer is "NO", these people should be fired as they must have smoked something strong lately!  😫😫

They only care that you are tax resident, your nationality is irrelevant.  Tax agreements between your country & Thailand are what is important.

[RethairedJarhead]

For US citizens there’s the 1996 US - Thailand Tax Treaty… 

 

I’m just not seeing how Thailand will side step 91 pages of signed treaty- especially where US pensions and/or savings are concerned. Not gonna’ happen.

(If I knew how to insert that newspaper reading, coffee drinking emoji… It would be right here)
 

https://home.treasury.gov/system/files/131/Treaty-Thailand-TE-11-26-1996.pdf

 

[Thungrat]

4 hours ago, NedR69 said:

Less than a month and I'm out.  F this crap and all the snowflakes. If you leave too, start thinking now how to move your money OUT of a Thai bank.  Wise doesn't do that.  Dee money sucks, and many are still waiting for their transfer to process several weeks after initiating the transfer.  WU fee is ok, but their rate sucks.  Swift transfer may be the best option.  Plan now, if you have 800k or more to move out.

 

It's not just the new tax law, but it will be the last nail in the coffin and I'm not waiting around to find out. Even if it doesn't go thru, I've had it here to the point of deciding to go. 

 

Insanity...doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

 

I see better options that have clean air, safer to drive/travel/live, and equally affordable.

 

Less than a month, and counting!

 

Where to go, any idea?

[MarkBR]

11 minutes ago, RethairedJarhead said:

For US citizens there’s the 1996 US - Thailand Tax Treaty… 

 

I’m just not seeing how Thailand will side step 91 pages of signed treaty- especially where US pensions and/or savings are concerned. Not gonna’ happen.

(If I knew how to insert that newspaper reading, coffee drinking emoji… It would be right here)
 

https://home.treasury.gov/system/files/131/Treaty-Thailand-TE-11-26-1996.pdf

 

You are, I assume, correct.

[NoDisplayName]

3 hours ago, Sydebolle said:

Tax optimization is the name of the game and only in Thailand they feature "proper tax planning" for the rich as they certainly don't pay 35% taxes on their entire income but benefit of all those little loopholes everywhere.

 

You mean 'the rich' who own the majority of stock in Thai corporations?

 

Shirley, it's just a coincidence that capital gains on stock sales (SET stocks) are tax-free.

[DaLa]

54 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

How would they identify YOUR bank accounts in a foreign country?

Bob Smith in Thailand could be any of 10,000 Bob Smith in the UK.

 

As we have no ID cards in the UK.

 

30 minutes ago, Thaindrew said:

its all linked to your tax id number, its almost impossible to open a bank account without providing one.

My names Bob Smith, the 'authorities' in Thailand have no idea of my address in the UK, they don't have my bank details in the UK, in fact other  than where I live in Thailand and receiving the 1,900 baht for my extension and my passport number which is not linked to any of my banking they know sweet fanny adams about me.  Ive never been in the forces but I know how to keep my head down. I have a bank account here for my 800k but don't have a tax ID, so where is this linking of information and identifying my personal details coming from. If there's a problem with securing my personal assets then I'll look at the remaining countries outside the OECD / AEOI.

[NoDisplayName]

3 hours ago, Thaindrew said:

The proposal here is worse than in China, expats dont pay tax for the first 5 years in China and can re start that 5 years by leaving for 3 months 

 

Six-year rule resets after one month outside.

 

.....away from the PRC on a single trip for more than 30 consecutive days in any of the tax years.

[RocketDog]

"There is speculation on social media that annual stay extensions might soon require income tax clearance in Thailand."

 

Your kidding right?

Of course it will. The Thai RD may be slow but they're not stupid.

 

I give it a year at most.

 

 

 

[mrmicbkktxl]

25 minutes ago, MarkBR said:

They only care that you are tax resident, your nationality is irrelevant.  Tax agreements between your country & Thailand are what is important.

Even if there is a double tax treaty you would have to pay tax in Thailand if for example in country X you pay 10% tax but in Thailand you would have to pay 15% tax,then you will pay the difference

[metisdead]

A post using a foreign language has been removed as this is an English language forum. 

[Toby1947]

8 hours ago, NemoH said:

The problem is that the Thai government have never cherished or respected this golden goose.
 

Expats are a silent minority in Thailand that is totally ignored by Thai government except when it comes to taking money from us.. we are discriminated against in pricing, enjoy no benefits as citizens but yet we directly n loyally support the entire Thai economy with our consistent spendings from Bangkok to Issan.

By shrinking Expat spendings, the whole Thai economy will now have to depend on the whimsical, seasonal and unpredictable tourism where all other countries will be competing with them. This tax will be the government ‘robbing’ from the very same support from which Thai economy gets its support and the ultimate real losers will be the Thai economy n the Thai common folks. 
 

The immediate glee n greed for this tax will bring long term repercussions spread to the entire Thai economy. 
 

At the end of the day, it’s just another transfer of wealth n robbing from the spendings to be earned by the Thai common folks to the government.

Let's be honest most so called expats have burnt their bridges and are now stuck in Thailand without a pot to p#ss in.