What Gives Buddhists Strength In Times Of Crisis?

[Brucenkhamen]

Oh, and just to deal with the "abdicate responsibility or avoid thinking for ones self" My faith means that I must constantly think for myself and take personal responsibility!

Oh yes it does nicegirl! Belief means the constant asking of questions. It's a voyage of discovery!

I'm not trying to be nit picky but I'm interested to know how this works.

If I have a belief, say I believe in reincarnation, or I believe that everything happens for good. When compared with someone who has an open mind over what happens after death, or an open mind over whether he can expect everything to turn out for good in the end. How does that enable me to think for myself better? or take more personal responsibility? or enable the constant asking of questions? or facilitate a voyage of discovery? I'd submit that an open mind can help these things better.

Perhaps your beliefs are more like hypotheses, in the way a scientist works to prove a theory. I think that's how it is for me for what little I believe. Which is a far cry from from someone who has blind faith.

[garro]

Scientists use inductive reasoning which is the belief that because something occurred x amount of times it will occur again. This is a belief and relies on faith.

Edited August 8, 2007 by garro

[thaibebop]

My grandmother was a devout Christian and gained alot of strength and peace in times of crisis. Gods will, gone with Jesus etc. We've all heard the platitudes (gosh, that sounded worse than I meant).

Anyway, what beliefs do Buddhists draw on when the sh!t hits the fan? And I mean everything, I'd be interested in what some rituals that I see (which appear to be superstitious rather than anything Buddhist) have to do with Buddhism, if anything. As well as Buddhist teachings that some draw strength from.

I always find Buddhism bring things into perspective for me. I am angry or frustrated and taking a moment to realize that I am suffering and at this point I can do nothing about what I am angry about helps me realize I am just hurting myself by staying angry.

The list of troubles I have is quite long at the moment, Buddhism helps me see that these issue mean very little. My muffler is falling off my car, the drivers side window doesn't roll down, ac isn't working right, all the tires need replacing. Well, it's a car these things happen to it and I don't have the money to fix most of this right now, so why cause myself sufferng by getting upset about it or cause my family suffering because I am upset by the condition of my car? That would be wrong action and wrong speech.

I know that nothing stays the same, and if I keep doing what I am doing day to day, the point my family is at will change. It will also change if I don't keep doing what I am doing. So, what would be the better thing to do, not do? Easy choice, just keep on keeping on.

I don't believe I will be rewarded. I don't believe that things will get better, they might get better, no one promised me anything. I don't believe everything will be alright. I don't believe that I or my family can escape suffering. However, I have the Eight Fold Path and I have guidelines that help order all this mess and help me decide what is important and what is not, for I can indentify wrong speech, wrong action and wrong thoughts. Yeah, bad things are going to happen, but I control myself and I know how to push the suffering away and make better out of what was bad.

I feel like I am rambling, did I make any sense?

[ratchabuild]

It seems sad to me that there are so many people in the world who need a crutch to lean on or someone to tell them what to do or think or believe.

Whereas you use the crutch of your scepticism. Ask your self how your beliefs are different to your fathers, then ask yourself how many differences are sheer rebellion. Everyone uses crutches.

[ratchabuild]

It seems sad to me that there are so many people in the world who need a crutch to lean on or someone to tell them what to do or think or believe.

A belief is not necessarily a crutch!

I'm with you villagef and brucenk but you should be careful when questioning other's beliefs. They can get very upset with nonbelievers. Belief doesn't leave room for questions.

We all get angry with non believers thats why we choose our friends and TV channels and radio and books and papers and magazines so carefully etc etc We don't want to learn out belief system is a pile of steaming crap. Might make us think outside

our comfort zone then the world would go to hel_l in a handbasket.

[OxfordWill]

For those interested in getting into the nitty gritty on belief vs opinion, if you want to make yourself REALLY confused, read Langford's work on Moore:

http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0022-4812...%3E2.0.CO%3B2-J

Or just google "paradox of analysis"+"langford"

[fxm88]

Sorry to have to break it to you, Jesus, but those are obviously my footprints.

[Brucenkhamen]

Scientists use inductive reasoning which is the belief that because something occurred x amount of times it will occur again. This is a belief and relies on faith.

Hardly, I believe the sun will come up tomorrow because it has done so every day that I can remember, that's the same kind of belief a scientist has in his theories.

That's a very different kind of belief from Jesus died for my sins, or if a drive a car bomb into the US embassy I'll go to heaven, or santa, or the tooth fairy.

I find my buddhist practice grounded in the first kind of belief, because it's worked so far even at times when it doesn't seem to be working I believe that condition will change in time, because it always has done so in the past.

[Brucenkhamen]

Whereas you use the crutch of your scepticism. Ask your self how your beliefs are different to your fathers, then ask yourself how many differences are sheer rebellion. Everyone uses crutches.

I fail to see how skepticism can be a crutch. But what you appear to be talking about is an automatic rebellion or reaction against some ideas or beliefs. That's the opposite of skepticism or open mindedness, and I agree that could be a crutch in some cases also.

[jumnien]

Yet another thread to be hijacked by fundamentalist faithless non-believers. I may not believe in God, but that doesn't mean I am incapable of belief. Just my opinion. Faithfully, yours.

[Brucenkhamen]

Yet another thread to be hijacked by fundamentalist faithless non-believers. I may not believe in God, but that doesn't mean I am incapable of belief. Just my opinion. Faithfully, yours.

I'm not sure what history gives rise to this view but this strikes me as a rather pessimistic reaction to what has been quite an interesting thread so far.

[garro]

The vast majority of people do not conduct experiments but put their faith in others to do this.

As pointed out by Ajahn Brahm, who was a theoretical physicist, before becoming a monk, the popularity and fame of scientists and scientific theories is directly related to the length of time they obstruct progress in their field.

Edited August 9, 2007 by garro

[Brucenkhamen]

The vast majority of people do not conduct experiments but put their faith in others to do this.

True, mostly for the same reason they put faith in others to perform brain surgery or install dry wall.

The difference with Buddhism is the Buddha set out a path that each individual must walk his or herself, some people are willing to do it, but too many would rather "spiritual professionals" did it for them.

[garro]

In my attempt to follow the path for the last few years I have been using the Mahasi meditation method. I am not clever enough to discover my own meditation method so put my faith in those who have gone before. I have no evidence that this will get me where I need to go only belief that is backed up by meditation experiences so far.

[Farma]

On the subject of meditation I was told yesterday about a close friend who was recently scammed in Bangkok by one of the Buddhist cults.

Feeling a bit uncertain in her life she sought help from a temple. I’ve since learnt this group has been linked in the Thai news to reports where people have handed over millions. I believe there was one case where a doctor handed over 40,000,000 B to the cult.

She initially went for meditation and was slowly convinced she had been possessed. She was then convinced to buy expensive trinkets and pay large amounts to rid the possession. In the past few months she handed over more than 1 million Baht to the temple.

Family intervened and she spent a week tied to a bed in psychiatric ward. She’s now out of hospital and trying to recover her life.

[jumnien]

Spiritual teachings that come at a monetary cost are not spiritual teachings. So sorry to hear about this story of the woman in Bangkok. A troubled friend had a similar problem up north. Happens all over the world for eons.

Back to the OP. How do buddhists use their beliefs and practices and community to endure hardship? Quite well, thank you.

[Brucenkhamen]

In my attempt to follow the path for the last few years I have been using the Mahasi meditation method. I am not clever enough to discover my own meditation method so put my faith in those who have gone before. I have no evidence that this will get me where I need to go only belief that is backed up by meditation experiences so far.

One needn't invent a whole new technique. As you get more confident with the technique you are using you'll find more scope to experiment a within the technique. Or maybe you'll get the chance to try other techniques with other teachers. I know asian teachers of the Mahasi tradition don't encourage it, at least not it early on as they are very rigid, but western teachers actively encourage it.

[OxfordWill]

Scientists use inductive reasoning which is the belief that because something occurred x amount of times it will occur again. This is a belief and relies on faith.

Hardly [...]

Well, I agree his opinion might seem odd to begin with, but you might be surprised to find out it is very hard to find an expert who disagrees with the idea that thinking the sun will rise tomorrow is a belief which relies on faith. It is known as the "problem of induction" and the British philosopher Hume is responsible for it.

If you want to be able to disagree with it properly, familiarise yourself with this article:

http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displ...e&aid=95005

[Grover]

If you want to be able to disagree with it properly, familiarise yourself with this article:

http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displ...e&aid=95005

But we have to pay 10 pounds to access and read it.

[chownah]

Actually the sun doesn't rise.....the earth turns.....so what does this have to say about our belief/opinion that the sun will rise tomorrow?

[Brucenkhamen]

Actually the sun doesn't rise.....the earth turns.....so what does this have to say about our belief/opinion that the sun will rise tomorrow?

That we perceive things relative to how we perceive our place in the world.

[chownah]

Actually the sun doesn't rise.....the earth turns.....so what does this have to say about our belief/opinion that the sun will rise tomorrow?

That we perceive things relative to how we perceive our place in the world.

Exactly...and if I might add that the Buddha taught that the only way we can have perceptions (so that we can perceive our place in the world) are through eye, ear, nose, tongue, body, and mind.

More specifically, all of our perceptions come from contact arising from eye and that which stimulates the eye (we usually call this "light"), the ear and that which stimulates the ear (we usually call this "sound"), the nose and that which stimulates the nose (we usually call this "odor"), the tongue and that which stimulates the tongue (we usually call this "taste"), the body and that which stimulates the body (we usually call this "feelings"), and the mind and that which stimulate the mind (we usually call this "thoughts"). There is no other basis for perception according to the Buddha I think.

So if you think you see the sun then you might ponder that really what is happening is that light meets the eye and eye consciousness arises, warmth is sensed on the skin and bodily consciousness arises, and the thought of "sun" happens in the mind and mind consciousness arises. And from zillions of things happening like this in rapid succession we create a sort of mind consciousness image of our lives....but where does "belief" or "opinion" or "proof" or "truth" originate from?......I think the Buddha would say that these are just thoughts that we cling to in a vane attempt at constructing a reliable and predictable world which we can rely on completely so as to eliminate our worries.....but I think the Buddha also teaches that we never will be able to construct that world because it is all a myth and is all based on the perceptions which only come from the eye, ear, nose, tongue, body, and mind....and these six bases can not construct a world of any sort....only an illusion of a world...and an illusion of a world will never be reliable and predictable and can never ultimately be satisfactory at eliminating our worries.

End of sermon,

Chownah

Edited August 12, 2007 by chownah

[jamesc2000]

I am not an expert on Buddhism but I know my suffering is caused by ignorance. I also know that the world is an illusion and hence when I am suffering I just think if the world is not real then I am not real and my suffering is not real!

So why allow my mind to think that I am suffering when I don't even exist.

Distractions also helps a lot. When I am thinking about something I like, I forget to think about the thing that causes me to feel bad.

Just choose a healthy distraction if not that becomes the problem. I choose football and car hifi. I wouldn't choose shopping as that can be expensive like car hifi and not chocolate as that can make you fat.

[JimsKnight]

It seems sad to me that there are so many people in the world who need a crutch to lean on or someone to tell them what to do or think or believe.

A crutch is a pretty poor word to use in such a way. I guess maybe athiests such as yourselves don't want anything to believe in eh?

[villagefarang]

It seems sad to me that there are so many people in the world who need a crutch to lean on or someone to tell them what to do or think or believe.

A crutch is a pretty poor word to use in such a way. I guess maybe athiests such as yourselves don't want anything to believe in eh?

Don't want, seems like a poor choice of words, too. I would say don't need. Quite happy to think for myself and take responsibility for my own actions.

[Brucenkhamen]

I am not an expert on Buddhism but I know my suffering is caused by ignorance.

Too true.

I also know that the world is an illusion and hence when I am suffering I just think if the world is not real then I am not real and my suffering is not real!

So why allow my mind to think that I am suffering when I don't even exist.

Sounds like a cop-out to me. Maybe some schools of Buddhism promote this line of thinking but I don't buy it. Certainly the illusions we add to reality aren't real but below that is something that is real.

[OxfordWill]

If you want to be able to disagree with it properly, familiarise yourself with this article:

http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displ...e&aid=95005

But we have to pay 10 pounds to access and read it.

A mere pittance for the enlightenment it contains!

[sabaijai]

As it seems we've exhausted the gist of the OP, leaving only irrelevant bickering, topic now closed.