Car Battery

[elkangorito]

I bought a new Civic in 2003 and at 34,000 km had to get a new battery for B1500. I now have 70,000 km on it. Should I replace the battery or wait till it konks out?

wait till it konks out ,you're never farther than a couple of k from a garage...........

You can always get it tested to find out its' condition. Otherwise, do as lazeeboy suggests.

[ignis]

Carry jump leads ????

when mine konked out, I got the jump leads out.. before even connecting them a Thai guy in a pick up drove up to the front of my car, and jumped me

[elkangorito]

Gel batteries are not designed for hot weather at all. Generally, they are designed to operate at between 20 & 25 degrees Celsius. Anything above 25 degrees will greatly reduce the discharge capacity, charge rate & capacity as well as reduce its' life.

I think most batteries operate in engine bays that are over 25C whatever the ambient temperature.

Cheers

Years ago I bought a 'Saab Turbo ( 8 valve APC)' and owned the car from new for 20 years before selling it on - still going strong. The point is that the battery in the car was changed 3 times in the 20 years and if any battery was ever sitting in a very hot enviroment then these baby's were, as they were located right beside the 'Turbo' - with only an asbestos heat shield between them - and that 'turbo' would glow orange; so I leave you to estimate what kind of temp was prevelant. I hate to think what temps the batteries had to contend with - but hey they must have liked it! Have to say that the batteies were big capacity ones - but for the life of me I can't recollect what the amperhour ratings were. As previous contributer has said, it is false economy to buy 'cheap batteries' always buy the best you can lay your hands on.

Were the batteries lead-acid?

How often was the car driven?

In what country was the car?

Was there any interval between driving & parking the vehicle? If so, for how long?

Automotive lead-acid batteries are very similar to each other. I will always go for the cheaper battery & replace it, required or not, every 2 years.

But if you buy 'real' lead-acid batteries (not designed for your car), the technology is mind boggling & very expensive.

I used to commission large lead-acid cells, which would later be used for a UPS supply. You can get Tubular plate & fibre cinter cell batteries, the latter being the leader in battery technology with a minimum 20 year life under the harshest of conditions. Most of these batteries are 'recombinant' batteries.

As for car batteries, these are things to look for in a good battery:

1] the plates are at least 5mm away from the bottom of the casing (if the casing is opaque).

2] the plates are a combination of Antimony & Lead.

Apart from these things, I wouldn't waste my money on an expensive car battery...not unless the warranty includes coming to get me no matter where I am, when the battery fails.

Edited August 24, 2007 by elkangorito

[Spaniel]

Thanks for all the replies and info. For the record today I went to the Honda dealer ankd got a new battery as well new tires. Old set had 70,000 km and the old battery was 25 months old so thought it was time to change both!

[silverhawk_usa]

You will notice your battery getting weaker, IF, your car is in order. Watch for signs like slower rotation of starter-motor. Change it before it you have to push.... Also consider the type: those gel/no maintenance crap, have a short life-span, while the standard water-filled can serve you 7 years.

After 2 gels, with a lifespan of 1.5 years and 8 months, I am now back to distilled water.... for 2 years, that is.

In my experience I find the complete reverse is true.

I think Crossy is correct as regards standard Lead-acid batteries.

Cheers

In actual fact, tracker is correct.

In tropical climates, "maintenance free" batteries lose electrolyte. Because they are sealed, the electrolyte cannot be replaced. This means that the battery will become evermore defficient in electrolyte & therefore fail sooner. "Maintenance free" lead-acid batteries are very good in cooler climates.

Gel batteries are not designed for hot weather at all. Generally, they are designed to operate at between 20 & 25 degrees Celsius. Anything above 25 degrees will greatly reduce the discharge capacity, charge rate & capacity as well as reduce its' life.

It is highly recommended that standard lead-acid batteries be used in tropical climates.

Anyway, as peaceblondie has said, this topic has been discussed extensively in another thread.

Replaced my 2 year old battery in my Toyota 4X4 today. I asked which was the best battery and I was given the same explanation as above (as near as I could tell through my "translator"). I was quite impressed by both the Thai salesman and this site for knowing this info.

[Clipped]

i install sound systems in cars and the way i test batteries is too...run the engine and check voltage at the battery.. then turn off the car and check the voltage and how fast it drops..

say you have 13.8vdc engine on , then cut off the engine and voltage drops to 12.3-12.6vdc and takes within 30 - 60 seconds, the battery is probably good.

but if the voltage with the engine off drops to around 12.3 vdc within 10-15 seconds, the battery is history.

this is a good way to test to see how it retains the charge.

i also have an ammeter i use to check amperes, and i can guarantee that eventhough a battery registers as 12.3 volts, if there is no amperage behind it , it is dead.

also contrary to popular belief a bigger battery isnt always better, for best performance a battery within the alternators specs works the best....for example using a 100ah battery with a 70 ah alternator, will not improve anything...just load your alternator more....a batt that matches the alt is the healthiest alternative.

instalilng extra ground wires also helps for cars with weak wiring, my crappy nissan was pathetic ad voltage drops were ridiculous...i then installed extra ground wires and added another positive wire and the difference was night and day.

one last thing, if you take a battery out of a car dont put it directly on concrete, try and put a piece of wood or something under it...concrete will drain a battery.

[cheshiremusicman]

also contrary to popular belief a bigger battery isnt always better, for best performance a battery within the alternators specs works the best....for example using a 100ah battery with a 70 ah alternator, will not improve anything...just load your alternator more....a batt that matches the alt is the healthiest alternative.

instalilng extra ground wires also helps for cars with weak wiring, my crappy nissan was pathetic ad voltage drops were ridiculous...i then installed extra ground wires and added another positive wire and the difference was night and day.

one last thing, if you take a battery out of a car dont put it directly on concrete, try and put a piece of wood or something under it...concrete will drain a battery.

Certainly agree to match battery capacity to the alternator spec for the reasons that you gave and also the earthing remark.

Have come across a lot of weird problems associated with 'Bad earthing'

I can't understand why putting the battery down on concrete should affect the discharge? Surely the battery case will insulate the 'working components of the battery' from any external effects?

[Clipped]

the earths natural magnetic field will discharge the battery, concrete is conductive , wood is less conductive.

if you ever get a chance to mess with a battery out of the engine bay and have a digital multimeter laying around, you can put one probe on the case (towards the sides)and the other probe on a terminal and you will get a completed circuit which will give you a reading on the digital multimeter.

unless the case is really thick, there is usually a residual magnetic field around it.

btw, ive had a gasing battery blow up in my face before, not a fun experience !!!

[elkangorito]

My comments in red.

i install sound systems in cars and the way i test batteries is too...run the engine and check voltage at the battery.. then turn off the car and check the voltage and how fast it drops..

say you have 13.8vdc engine on , then cut off the engine and voltage drops to 12.3-12.6vdc and takes within 30 - 60 seconds, the battery is probably good.

Incorrect. You can't assume battery capacity unless a substantial load is connected to it.

but if the voltage with the engine off drops to around 12.3 vdc within 10-15 seconds, the battery is history.

See above comment.

this is a good way to test to see how it retains the charge.

This is not a good way to test charge.

i also have an ammeter i use to check amperes, and i can guarantee that eventhough a battery registers as 12.3 volts, if there is no amperage behind it , it is dead.

???

also contrary to popular belief a bigger battery isnt always better, for best performance a battery within the alternators specs works the best....for example using a 100ah battery with a 70 ah alternator, will not improve anything...just load your alternator more....a batt that matches the alt is the healthiest alternative.

At last, something that is correct.

instalilng extra ground wires also helps for cars with weak wiring, my crappy nissan was pathetic ad voltage drops were ridiculous...i then installed extra ground wires and added another positive wire and the difference was night and day.

Nothing to do with batteries but a good idea anyway.

one last thing, if you take a battery out of a car dont put it directly on concrete, try and put a piece of wood or something under it...concrete will drain a battery.

Complete & utter rubbish.

[Gary A]

The battery in my pickup is now three years old.I don't plan to replace it until it dies. I was looking at my car battery and it is a Motolife brand. It says Gold full calcium battery. I have never seen a car battery described as "full calcium" before. Is this something new?

[cheshiremusicman]

The battery in my pickup is now three years old.I don't plan to replace it until it dies. I was looking at my car battery and it is a Motolife brand. It says Gold full calcium battery. I have never seen a car battery described as "full calcium" before. Is this something new?

Are you quite sure that it says 'calcium' not 'cadmium', maybe they are incorporating this metal into battery production nowadays? but that is only a guess!

[Clipped]

sealed valve batteries are sometimes calcium.

[Gary A]

The battery in my pickup is now three years old.I don't plan to replace it until it dies. I was looking at my car battery and it is a Motolife brand. It says Gold full calcium battery. I have never seen a car battery described as "full calcium" before. Is this something new?

Are you quite sure that it says 'calcium' not 'cadmium', maybe they are incorporating this metal into battery production nowadays? but that is only a guess!

It says calcium for sure. The warranty is a little screwy. It says the battery will be replaced free of charge during the first year but will be pro rated after the first year. The screwy part is that it doesn't say how long the warranty is.

[Lickey]

Have a look at this site, im sure it will be beneficial to you ALL!

http://www.repairfaq.org/ELE/F_Car_Battery...#CARBATTERY_010

Section 9.3 has a bit about calcium batteries.

I have yet to see a charged battery standing on a concrete floor, once filled, they were always put on plywood or rubber mating, another good idea is to put a piece of rubber mating under your car battery in situ, this will eliminate a lot of harmful vibrations.

Thankyou, Lickey.

[silverhawk_usa]

The battery in my pickup is now three years old.I don't plan to replace it until it dies. I was looking at my car battery and it is a Motolife brand. It says Gold full calcium battery. I have never seen a car battery described as "full calcium" before. Is this something new?

I would say replace it BEFORE it dies. Not necessarily on any particular time schedule or because of this "topic". I could tell that mine was cranking slower and that it just seemed to take longer to start, probably only noticeable to me. I sat and let the radio and fan run for only a few minutes the other day while the g/f went in the store. When she came back and I cranked it over it sounded very weak.

After replacing it the difference is outstanding. Like a new vehicle again. I am sure that if I hadn't replaced it when I did I would have wound up stuck somewhere or at least doing a lot of cussing when it flat died.

As for storing or setting a battery on concrete. I too was always told to sit it on a piece of wood or rubber. No facts to back this up.

[Gary A]

My three year old pick up truck battery got tested yesterday. My wife came home and told me the battery was no good and the truck wouldn't start. I was getting ready to go buy a new battery when she told me that she had forgotten to turn off the fog lights. I asked her how long they were on and she told my ONLY four hours. Time will tell if it needs replaced.

[elkangorito]

As for storing or setting a battery on concrete. I too was always told to sit it on a piece of wood or rubber. No facts to back this up.

You're exactly correct. There are no facts to back this up because there are no facts!

To successfully REDUCE the effects of a magnetic field, a magnetic shield (Faraday shield) must be created. This usually comprises of 2 components: a non magnetic material & a magnetic material.

For example, to protect a watch from the earths magnetic field, surround it with a non magnetic material (air, lead, brass) & then surround this non magnetic material with a magnetic material (Iron, cobalt). There is now way whatsoever to block magnetic fields. And sitting batteries on lumps of wood or matts is certainly another way that doesn't block or reduce any magnetic effect.

[cheshiremusicman]

As for storing or setting a battery on concrete. I too was always told to sit it on a piece of wood or rubber. No facts to back this up.

You're exactly correct. There are no facts to back this up because there are no facts!

To successfully REDUCE the effects of a magnetic field, a magnetic shield (Faraday shield) must be created. This usually comprises of 2 components: a non magnetic material & a magnetic material.

For example, to protect a watch from the earths magnetic field, surround it with a non magnetic material (air, lead, brass) & then surround this non magnetic material with a magnetic material (Iron, cobalt). There is now way whatsoever to block magnetic fields. And sitting batteries on lumps of wood or matts is certainly another way that doesn't block or reduce any magnetic effect.

My thoughts entirely 'elkangorito', but as to your statement of 'there is no way whatsoever to block magnetic fields' I seem to remember that there was a material called 'Mu-metal' that was used to 'shield' crt tubes in the old days from magnetic field effects.

[Crossy]

As for storing or setting a battery on concrete. I too was always told to sit it on a piece of wood or rubber. No facts to back this up.

Me too. I always assumed it was to reduce the possibility of a stone or something becoming trapped and possibly damaging the (at the time brittle) case.

[stingray]

My three year old pick up truck battery got tested yesterday. My wife came home and told me the battery was no good and the truck wouldn't start. I was getting ready to go buy a new battery when she told me that she had forgotten to turn off the fog lights. I asked her how long they were on and she told my ONLY four hours. Time will tell if it needs replaced.

If the foglights are connected correctly, it wouln't be happen. They have to turn off automaticly when you torn off the headlight switch. But i never understand why in Thailand they connect them to a seperate switch and not connect the N0. 85 of the foglight relais with the position light switch.

[elkangorito]

As for storing or setting a battery on concrete. I too was always told to sit it on a piece of wood or rubber. No facts to back this up.

You're exactly correct. There are no facts to back this up because there are no facts!

To successfully REDUCE the effects of a magnetic field, a magnetic shield (Faraday shield) must be created. This usually comprises of 2 components: a non magnetic material & a magnetic material.

For example, to protect a watch from the earths magnetic field, surround it with a non magnetic material (air, lead, brass) & then surround this non magnetic material with a magnetic material (Iron, cobalt). There is now way whatsoever to block magnetic fields. And sitting batteries on lumps of wood or matts is certainly another way that doesn't block or reduce any magnetic effect.

My thoughts entirely 'elkangorito', but as to your statement of 'there is no way whatsoever to block magnetic fields' I seem to remember that there was a material called 'Mu-metal' that was used to 'shield' crt tubes in the old days from magnetic field effects.

The shielding you speak of works just fine but I'm talking about a 100% blocking of magnetic fields. Much the same as thermal or electric insulation...neither of these will do the job to 100%.

No doubt the person(s) who were told about placing batteries on wooden blocks to stop magnetic fields from draining the battery, were also told to go down to the hardware shop & buy a can of striped paint, a box of emery sparks & a square drill for drilling square holes.

[Lickey]

If you have a lead/acid battery, take the tops off, look at the colour of the cells, if on cell or more is darker than the others and there is a dark scum on the removable filler tops, then the battery is on the way out,

http://www.batteryfaq.org/ nobody comented on the last site i posted, so try this one please, very comprehensive with no comments in red!!

[elkangorito]

If you have a lead/acid battery, take the tops off, look at the colour of the cells, if on cell or more is darker than the others and there is a dark scum on the removable filler tops, then the battery is on the way out,

http://www.batteryfaq.org/ nobody comented on the last site i posted, so try this one please, very comprehensive with no comments in red!!

Just to keep you on your toes, here's some comments in red. I found your link quite informative...particularly the section on myths.

http://jgdarden.com/batteryfaq/carfaq14.htm

[Gary A]

My three year old pick up truck battery got tested yesterday. My wife came home and told me the battery was no good and the truck wouldn't start. I was getting ready to go buy a new battery when she told me that she had forgotten to turn off the fog lights. I asked her how long they were on and she told my ONLY four hours. Time will tell if it needs replaced.

If the foglights are connected correctly, it wouln't be happen. They have to turn off automaticly when you torn off the headlight switch. But i never understand why in Thailand they connect them to a seperate switch and not connect the N0. 85 of the foglight relais with the position light switch.

The fog lights are OEM and the wiring does seem to be designed poorly. Totally separate switch not connected to the ignition or head lights. Not even a buzzer warning.

[elkangorito]

If the foglights are connected correctly, it wouln't be happen. They have to turn off automaticly when you torn off the headlight switch. But i never understand why in Thailand they connect them to a seperate switch and not connect the N0. 85 of the foglight relais with the position light switch.

I do not know of a single vehicle in which the headlights/fog lights are turned off when the ignition is turned off. Even current vehicles don't do this although they may have a 'lights on' warning system for when the ignition is turned off.

[stingray]

If the foglights are connected correctly, it wouln't be happen. They have to turn off automaticly when you torn off the headlight switch. But i never understand why in Thailand they connect them to a seperate switch and not connect the N0. 85 of the foglight relais with the position light switch.

I do not know of a single vehicle in which the headlights/fog lights are turned off when the ignition is turned off. Even current vehicles don't do this although they may have a 'lights on' warning system for when the ignition is turned off.

I not talk about ignition switch, i talk about the connection to the headlight switch. In Europe are all foglights connected with the positionlight. So if you turn the position light off, the foglights are automaticly turned off. Separate switch for the foglights works only if the positionlights are on. In off modus they don't work.

[Crossy]

If the foglights are connected correctly, it wouln't be happen. They have to turn off automaticly when you torn off the headlight switch. But i never understand why in Thailand they connect them to a seperate switch and not connect the N0. 85 of the foglight relais with the position light switch.

I do not know of a single vehicle in which the headlights/fog lights are turned off when the ignition is turned off. Even current vehicles don't do this although they may have a 'lights on' warning system for when the ignition is turned off.

My 5 Series Beemer (1992) did this (just left the side lights on). Haven't driven a car in thailand that does though

[Thanh-BKK]

Hi

I drive a '94 Volvo 460 here in Thailand, and if i turn off the ignition with the light switch still in "ON" position it switches to the parking light (little bulbs) AND a buzzer sounds. If the light switch is in "park" position, the parking lights will also stay on but no buzzer. And the fog lights won't work either when the ignition is off.

In Germany i had a '93 Volkswagen Polo GT with fog lights ex factory and it, too, would turn the fog lights (and main lights) OFF when the ignition was turned off and keep only the parking lights ON.

Maybe japanese cars are different? Never owned one.....

Thanh