Thailand's Expats Urged to Register with TRD for Tax, Says Expert

[samtam]

On 11/7/2024 at 3:22 PM, phitsanulokjohn said:

Here we are almost an hour long interview,straight from Tom Carden's mouth.

 

 

 

I thought this was quite a good interview. He seems to have changed his mind since then.

 

On 11/7/2024 at 3:58 PM, chiang mai said:

A wife and children are tax deductions, that was why I asked.

 

I had my deductions worked out to THB500k:

THB60k Personal Care Allowance

THB100k (up to) Pension Income Allowance

THB190k over 65

THB150k zero rate

 

Is that incorrect?

[chiang mai]

5 minutes ago, samtam said:

 

I thought this was quite a good interview. He seems to have changed his mind since then.

 

 

I had my deductions worked out to THB500k:

THB60k Personal Care Allowance

THB100k (up to) Pension Income Allowance

THB190k over 65

THB150k zero rate

 

Is that incorrect?

Correct

[samtam]

On 11/8/2024 at 10:33 AM, chiang mai said:

Technically, the requirement is to file a return, as long as you are tax resident and you have more than 60k in assessable income. Technically, if you don't, you can be subject to a fine....technically.  So the issue is not strictly owning money, it's about filing or not filing, in that context, Carden is more right than wrong.

 

18 hours ago, chiang mai said:

Correct

 

So in my case, if my income is below THB500K, I don't have to file. Actually, we are two unmarried people over 65 who live together, so we both have an allowance of THB500K + THB500K = THB1M; we have joint accounts worldwide and comingle funds.

[The Cyclist]

15 minutes ago, samtam said:

So in my case, if my income is below THB500K, I don't have to file.

 

I do not believe this is correct.

 

THB500k is the threshold that you would start to pay tax by applying your

 

19 hours ago, samtam said:

I had my deductions worked out to THB500k:

THB60k Personal Care Allowance

THB100k (up to) Pension Income Allowance

THB190k over 65

THB150k zero rate

 

This is not the same as the thresholds for filing a tax return which are 60K / 120K / 220K depending on the type of income and if you file as an Individual or a Couple.

 

That is my understanding on how it works. This also explains why the RD has about 4 million ' Nul ' tax returns each year.

 

4 million Tax returns filed, but no tax to pay.

 

As always, better to be safe than sorry. Try and file and let the RD direct you.

[samtam]

34 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

 

I do not believe this is correct.

 

THB500k is the threshold that you would start to pay tax by applying your

 

 

This is not the same as the thresholds for filing a tax return which are 60K / 120K / 220K depending on the type of income and if you file as an Individual or a Couple.

 

That is my understanding on how it works. This also explains why the RD has about 4 million ' Nul ' tax returns each year.

 

4 million Tax returns filed, but no tax to pay.

 

As always, better to be safe than sorry. Try and file and let the RD direct you.

 

OK, thanks. I will inquire at RD.

[The Cyclist]

38 minutes ago, samtam said:

 

OK, thanks. I will inquire at RD.

 

It would be mental not to ask.

 

What is the worst that is going to happen ?
 

1. They tell you to go away

 

2. They give you a TIN, fill in a form and you pay no tax.

 

It's a no brainer for me. A once a year trip to the RD to keep on the straight and narrow.

[NoDisplayName]

16 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

It's a no brainer for me. A once a year trip to the RD to keep on the straight and narrow.

 

It's easier than that.

File once a year online.

 

My plan is first week of January, file FBAR online (10 minutes), file Thai tax online (10 minutes).  First week of March, after 1099's received, file US tax online (30 minutes).  Along with that I have 3-4 90-day reports to my probation officer, online (5 minutes each).

 

Only physical attendance is one day per year, bank statements (30 minutes), and extension renewal (1 hour), plus a couple hours driving back and forth to the big city.

 

As long as they don't go with worldwide taxation, we're good.

[The Cyclist]

13 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

t's easier than that.

File once a year online.

 

It's even easier for me. I wont be filing anything.

 

Annual bank printout, attach P60, put in A4 envelope, mark envelope Thai Tax Year 2024 and stick in a drawer for safekeeping, should someone come knocking at my door for audit purposes.

 

But for those that are unsure. A trip to the RD to ask the question is the best way forward, unless they want to fork out for the Services of a Tax Consultant.

[NoDisplayName]

7 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

 

It's even easier for me. I wont be filing anything.

 

Annual bank printout, attach P60, put in A4 envelope, mark envelope Thai Tax Year 2024 and stick in a drawer for safekeeping, should someone come knocking at my door for audit purposes.

 

But for those that are unsure. A trip to the RD to ask the question is the best way forward, unless they want to fork out for the Services of a Tax Consultant.

 

That's a plan.  You are prepared.

 

I'm in the "if you don't owe tax, you don't need to file" camp.

 

I get a couple thousand back from interest and dividend withholding.

[Dcheech]

15 hours ago, The Cyclist said:

This is not the same as the thresholds for filing a tax return which are 60K / 120K / 220K depending on the type of income and if you file as an Individual or a Couple.

Where do you get these figures, specifically why one would file if over these amounts. Even if with deductions Thailand has, one would pay no tax.

Thanks  

[chiang mai]

1 minute ago, Dcheech said:

Where do you get these figures, specifically why one would file if over these amounts. Even if with deductions Thailand has, one would pay no tax.

Thanks  

They are the TRD threshold rates. The document below is the first one I came across and is dated 2021, they haven't changed since. See number 1.

 

https://www.rd.go.th/fileadmin/download/english_form/030265guide91.pdf

[chiang mai]

41 minutes ago, Dcheech said:

Where do you get these figures, specifically why one would file if over these amounts. Even if with deductions Thailand has, one would pay no tax.

Thanks  

Here's a better one:

 

All persons earning income are required to file a tax return no later than 31 March of the following year for hardcopy filing and 8 April for online filing, except for individuals whose income from employment is THB 120,000 or less (for single persons) or THB 220,000 or less (for married persons) and in the case of having income from other sources (with or without employment income) of THB 60,000 or less (for single persons) or THB 120,000 or less (for married persons).

 

https://taxsummaries.pwc.com/thailand/individual/tax-administration#:~:text=Individuals engaged in most forms,their spouse%2C whichever they prefer.

[Dcheech]

Made copies for my records. Thanks. 

[samtam]

On 11/17/2024 at 3:21 PM, The Cyclist said:

 

I do not believe this is correct.

 

THB500k is the threshold that you would start to pay tax by applying your

 

 

This is not the same as the thresholds for filing a tax return which are 60K / 120K / 220K depending on the type of income and if you file as an Individual or a Couple.

 

That is my understanding on how it works. This also explains why the RD has about 4 million ' Nul ' tax returns each year.

 

4 million Tax returns filed, but no tax to pay.

 

As always, better to be safe than sorry. Try and file and let the RD direct you.

 

On 11/17/2024 at 3:55 PM, samtam said:

 

OK, thanks. I will inquire at RD.

 

On 11/17/2024 at 4:37 PM, The Cyclist said:

 

It would be mental not to ask.

 

What is the worst that is going to happen ?
 

1. They tell you to go away

 

2. They give you a TIN, fill in a form and you pay no tax.

 

It's a no brainer for me. A once a year trip to the RD to keep on the straight and narrow.

 

Well, you certainly seem to be right about having to file, whether tax payment is due, or not:

 

I haven't yet been to RD, (my office is in Sathorn: Thai Chinese Chamber of Commerce, opposite Surasak BTS).

 

But in the meantime my office manager has been helping me, by ringing them up to find out whether I need to file (yes, apparently), and how I need to file.

 

Even though my income into Thailand is less than my TEDA, they still want me to file. I only need to show ATM withdrawal amount, (THB160K) and not credit card, but debit card amounts.

 

First, I need to apply for a Lor.Por.10.1 (to obtain a TIN). Then I need to complete a Por.Nor.Dor 90. However, having looked at the PND90, it is not obvious how or where I put in the sums and deductions, so yet another (4 or 5 so far) call to inquire.

 

Anyway, I'm not convinced that I really do need to obtain a TIN, (not as simple as just using my pink ID number, it will apparently be different to that 13 digit number)*, and then I need to file, and I suspect that when I try to get them to answer my question about how to complete the PND90, they may say "not necessary". A further call will be made, and then I will go and see them in person, with my Thai manager.

 

I didn't think this was going to be easy, and I was right.

 

*Maybe those who obtained their TIN with a pink ID had to complete this Lor.Por.10.1 form? 

Edited 2 hours ago by samtam

[chiang mai]

9 minutes ago, samtam said:

 

 

 

Well, you certainly seem to be right about having to file, whether tax payment is due, or not:

 

I haven't yet been to RD, (my office is in Sathorn: Thai Chinese Chamber of Commerce, opposite Surasak BTS).

 

But in the meantime my office manager has been helping me, by ringing them up to find out whether I need to file (yes, apparently), and how I need to file.

 

Even though my income into Thailand is less than my TEDA, they still want me to file. I only need to show ATM withdrawal amount, (THB160K) and not credit card, but debit card amounts.

 

First, I need to apply for a Lor.Por.10.1 (to obtain a TIN). Then I need to complete a Por.Nor.Dor 90. However, having looked at the PND90, it is not obvious how or where I put in the sums and deductions, so yet another (4 or 5 so far) call to inquire.

 

Anyway, I'm not convinced that I really do need to obtain a TIN, (not as simple as just using my pink ID number, it will apparently be different to that 13 digit number)*, and then I need to file, and I suspect that when I try to get them to answer my question about how to complete the PND90, they may say "not necessary". A further call will be made, and then I will go and see them in person, with my Thai manager.

 

I didn't think this was going to be easy, and I was right.

 

*Maybe those who obtained their TIN with a pink ID had to complete this Lor.Por.10.1 form? 

Thank you for posting this, game set and match to the exact wording of the Revenue Code I believe.

[The Cyclist]

25 minutes ago, samtam said:

Well, you certainly seem to be right about having to file, whether tax payment is due, or not:

 

Kudos for coming back with your update. Hopefully it will be beneficial for some who are still confused over filing limits and limits where you start to pay tax.

 

They, as I understood, are 2 very different things.

 

25 minutes ago, samtam said:

*Maybe those who obtained their TIN with a pink ID had to complete this Lor.Por.10.1 form? 

 

On this I have no idea. I took steps in November 2023 to limit remittances in 2024 to my Government Pension. 

 

No tax, no filing, easy life"

Edited 2 hours ago by The Cyclist