What is an Intensive English Programme?

MartinL · November 9

My grandson is enrolled in the Intensive English Programme at his small-town school in Udon Thani province, 200+ km from us. He's 10 and has been on the programme for about 4 years. His English is almost non-existent as far as I can tell although maybe he's just not confident - I hope that's the case. He seems to be no further along than 'How are you? - I'm fine, thank you' and some obviously scripted conversations that we've seen in videos. His grades in most subjects are good - high 3s - but poor in English.

I remember a long time back, when I was 10 and l had been learning French for about a year, I was shy to use the language, so I understand that aspect of it but I could at least make simple and spontaneous replies to questions from my teachers. He can't do this when I ask him very simple questions.

My question for those 'in the know' is this; What is an IEP? Is there any official definition/curriculum for these courses or is it just a designation used by the school for 'prestige'? What level of English should I expect, as a concerned grandad, at his age?

My own interpretation of 'IEP' would be a course that concentrates on teaching in English but, while that might be the case in Big City schools, I'd guess it's different in schools of his type. I can get no information from his parents about the course content - I'm not sure they've actually asked about it at the school - and am left wondering whether or not he's wasting his time and his parents money on IEP.

luicks · November 9

https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand/general/2002315/intensive-push-to-lift-english-proficiency

It's a program in which students get more English lessons per week than regular students. The goal is that students reach B2 level of CEFR which is a joke because most English teachers (Thai) at secondary schools don't reach that level themselves.

luicks · November 9

The Ministry (of Education) had in 2015 tested all civil servant English teachers in a CEFR-referenced online placement test, where 94% had failed to reach the targeted proficiency level of B2.

Source: https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/0033688217738816?icid=int.sj-full-text.similar-articles.2

youreavinalaff · November 12

On 11/9/2024 at 1:12 AM, MartinL said:

My grandson is enrolled in the Intensive English Programme at his small-town school in Udon Thani province, 200+ km from us. He's 10 and has been on the programme for about 4 years. His English is almost non-existent as far as I can tell although maybe he's just not confident - I hope that's the case. He seems to be no further along than 'How are you? - I'm fine, thank you' and some obviously scripted conversations that we've seen in videos. His grades in most subjects are good - high 3s - but poor in English.

I remember a long time back, when I was 10 and l had been learning French for about a year, I was shy to use the language, so I understand that aspect of it but I could at least make simple and spontaneous replies to questions from my teachers. He can't do this when I ask him very simple questions.

My question for those 'in the know' is this; What is an IEP? Is there any official definition/curriculum for these courses or is it just a designation used by the school for 'prestige'? What level of English should I expect, as a concerned grandad, at his age?

My own interpretation of 'IEP' would be a course that concentrates on teaching in English but, while that might be the case in Big City schools, I'd guess it's different in schools of his type. I can get no information from his parents about the course content - I'm not sure they've actually asked about it at the school - and am left wondering whether or not he's wasting his time and his parents money on IEP.

Do you live permanently in Thailand?

If "Yes", you can help. Generally, the immersion method is considered the best way to learn any language. To be in an environment where that language is being continuously used.

Make an arrangement whereby the young lad spends time with you. Weekends maybe. Maybe time during school holidays.

Be sure to have your wife/partner involved. Don't allow her to translate when the boy doesn't understand. Be patient.

Start with every day phrases. "Time to get up", "What would you like for breakfast?", "Shall we go out?". "Where would you like to go?"

I spoke English to our daughter from birth. My wife spoke Thai to her. In the village she would hear Khmer and at school Khmer and Isaan Laos. She is now quad lingual.

Generally there is no limit to how many languages a young brain can pick up so don't listen if family say things like "no, he'll get confused". He won't.

The classroom is not the best place to "learn" a language. It's OK for "studying" grammar and maybe spelling but the "learn" aspect must be done by doing. You wouldn't expect kids to read a book about swimming and jump in a pool and be proficient at 4 strokes, would you?

During my time teaching I've seen many students who struggled to speak English get the opportunity to travel to a native English speaking country. From 6 weeks up to 6 months. Upon return to Thailand the transformation was amazing.

Give it a go. If the lad is keen, he will learn.

Snackbar · November 13

A way to get ya $ quickly

khunPer · November 13

In a small town school without native English speaking teacher, the language result might be limited. In a private EP-school with native English speaking teachers – as my daughter attended – the result can be fully bilingual English-Thai.

Fab5BKK · November 13

Our son, now 15, studied @ private IEP from kindergarten. That plus studying French @ Alliance Francaise.

Result: he speaks fluently 3 languages (English, French, Thai).

BTW, it didn’t harm that we speak these languages at home!

arick · November 13

I can supply him with online English classes by a qualified UK London teacher with 20 years of experience.

Have you gone to the school and checked how good the English is from the English so-called English teacher.

Foxx · November 16

On 11/14/2024 at 6:35 AM, arick said:

I can supply him with online English classes by a qualified UK London teacher with 20 years of experience.

But only if you want him speaking with a Cockney accent?

NanLaew · November 17

On 11/13/2024 at 12:11 PM, Snackbar said:

A way to get ya $ quickly

When we relocated, my lad was denied enrollment in his new school's Intensive English Program because his existing English language skills were poor. This was due to the non-existent teaching of English in the Intensive English Program at his previous school. That was run by a 26 year-old English TEFL'er who insisted that my then 6 year-old was 'an underachiever' and maybe he should have his head checked.

When I spoke with the Thai head of the English language department at the new school about this, it was easier to talk with her in Chinese as my Thai is rudimentary whilst she refused to even try speaking English.

IEP's are a way of wringing more cash out of parents to pay for the extra salary of the 'supervising' teacher who plays with their phone for an hour.

YMMV

TiT

NanLaew · November 17

On 11/12/2024 at 3:29 PM, youreavinalaff said:

Do you live permanently in Thailand?

If "Yes", you can help. Generally, the immersion method is considered the best way to learn any language. To be in an environment where that language is being continuously used.

Make an arrangement whereby the young lad spends time with you. Weekends maybe. Maybe time during school holidays.

Be sure to have your wife/partner involved. Don't allow her to translate when the boy doesn't understand. Be patient.

Start with every day phrases. "Time to get up", "What would you like for breakfast?", "Shall we go out?". "Where would you like to go?"

I spoke English to our daughter from birth. My wife spoke Thai to her. In the village she would hear Khmer and at school Khmer and Isaan Laos. She is now quad lingual.

Generally there is no limit to how many languages a young brain can pick up so don't listen if family say things like "no, he'll get confused". He won't.

The classroom is not the best place to "learn" a language. It's OK for "studying" grammar and maybe spelling but the "learn" aspect must be done by doing. You wouldn't expect kids to read a book about swimming and jump in a pool and be proficient at 4 strokes, would you?

During my time teaching I've seen many students who struggled to speak English get the opportunity to travel to a native English speaking country. From 6 weeks up to 6 months. Upon return to Thailand the transformation was amazing.

Give it a go. If the lad is keen, he will learn.

Yes, immersion learning is fantastic. During a break from work, I did three weekends immersion in Brazilian Portuguese at the University of Houston. This after struggling with the language on a job in Maranhão, up north where English speakers were sparse. When I went back for the subsequent tour of duty, the locals that I had been dealing with before were a bit dumbfounded as to why I had been so 'difficult' on my first gig.

I went back to UH on my next break to do the next level of immersion training but after living the language in Brazil for the previous two months, the instructor reckoned I was way ahead enough of her current classes and not to bother with them. However, we did meet for a couple of lunch dates and she talked me into getting involved with calling her class members on the phone. This was also part of their immersion training; someone calls you speaking only Portuguese and you need to answer in the same langauge. Fun stuff but more fun was I ended up working for almost two years in Brazil.

arick · November 18

On 11/16/2024 at 5:33 PM, Foxx said:

But only if you want him speaking with a Cockney accent?

I don't have a cockney accent I have a Canadian and Central London accent. Parents only compliment me on how clear nice my accent is. May I suggest that you contact the British learning center in Pattaya or Bangkok .

KhunLA · November 18

@MartinL It seems you are wasting your money, and valuable time away from you son (assume boarding there) if English is the priority sending there. Why do you not simply teach him at home.

Knowing English is a priority for a better job, hopefully, English was the only language allowed at home, for me, wife & daughter. She was fluent in no time at all, and even won English competitions for the school she attended in Udon Thani (St Mary's & Don Bosco).

Don Bosco being the better of the 2, All movies at home, from animated to dramas, to love stories were all in English. The Thai English teachers were not good, and the non Yank English teachers, I even had a hard time understanding.

She got her Thai language at school, no need to speak it at home, she got here Esan language at Grandparents & local village kids. Fluent in 3 languages/dialect before the age of 7 or 8.

If son applies himself, he'll have his pick of Uni when ready, as she did, and had her pick of a few jobs that she wanted. Her English being a major plus for her career, online marketing/E commerce.

MartinL · November 18

On 11/9/2024 at 11:40 AM, luicks said:

https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand/general/2002315/intensive-push-to-lift-english-proficiency

It's a program in which students get more English lessons per week than regular students. The goal is that students reach B2 level of CEFR which is a joke because most English teachers (Thai) at secondary schools don't reach that level themselves.

Thanks. That explains what an IEP actually is, rather than what I imagined it to be which seems more akin to an immersive programme.

On 11/12/2024 at 3:29 PM, youreavinalaff said:

Do you live permanently in Thailand?

If "Yes", you can help. Generally, the immersion method is considered the best way to learn any language. To be in an environment where that language is being continuously used.

Make an arrangement whereby the young lad spends time with you. Weekends maybe. Maybe time during school holidays.

Be sure to have your wife/partner involved. Don't allow her to translate when the boy doesn't understand. Be patient.

Start with every day phrases. "Time to get up", "What would you like for breakfast?", "Shall we go out?". "Where would you like to go?"

I spoke English to our daughter from birth. My wife spoke Thai to her. In the village she would hear Khmer and at school Khmer and Isaan Laos. She is now quad lingual.

Generally there is no limit to how many languages a young brain can pick up so don't listen if family say things like "no, he'll get confused". He won't.

The classroom is not the best place to "learn" a language. It's OK for "studying" grammar and maybe spelling but the "learn" aspect must be done by doing. You wouldn't expect kids to read a book about swimming and jump in a pool and be proficient at 4 strokes, would you?

During my time teaching I've seen many students who struggled to speak English get the opportunity to travel to a native English speaking country. From 6 weeks up to 6 months. Upon return to Thailand the transformation was amazing.

Give it a go. If the lad is keen, he will learn.

Very good post. Yes, permanently in Thailand. Before the lad started school, my wife - who's a retired teacher and could also help with other subjects - and I discussed having him with us - 200+ km from his parents - from time to time to help with his English. It was such an exciting prospect. His parents, specifically his mum whose own family live live next door to them, squashed that idea, preferring for him to stay in the village and learn about the farm. Which then begs the question "So why put him in an IEP then?". Now he's getting old enough to have an input on decisions affecting him, the boy refuses to stay with us unless his dad's there too, which would sort of negate the point of having him stay. We only get to see him for occasional weekends and, during those times, we catch up on recent events with him, have some fun and enjoy his all-too-short childhood. I ask him exactly the type of questions you suggest and have done so since he first began to acquire language but he still isn't able to respond without translation. We call him most evenings and, almost without exception, he's either eating or laying in front of the TV or his tablet. It's disheartening to see his receptive years being wasted like that. That's not his fault of course, rather the fault of his environment in which his maternal family - very nice people but ... - have almost no education and no ability to help him with his schooling.

19 hours ago, NanLaew said:

19 hours ago, NanLaew said:

When we relocated, my lad was denied enrollment in his new school's Intensive English Program because his existing English language skills were poor. This was due to the non-existent teaching of English in the Intensive English Program at his previous school. That was run by a 26 year-old English TEFL'er who insisted that my then 6 year-old was 'an underachiever' and maybe he should have his head checked.

................

IEP's are a way of wringing more cash out of parents to pay for the extra salary of the 'supervising' teacher who plays with their phone for an hour.

As I said in the OP, we can get no information on teachers, curriculum or anything else re. the IEP although the boy has occasionally mentioned a 'foreign teacher'. I'm rapidly coming to the same conclusion you express - that IEP (at this particular school, at least) is a waste of time and money.

2 hours ago, KhunLA said:

@MartinL It seems you are wasting your money, and valuable time away from you son (assume boarding there) if English is the priority sending there. Why do you not simply teach him at home.

Knowing English is a priority for a better job, hopefully, English was the only language allowed at home, for me, wife & daughter. She was fluent in no time at all, and even won English competitions for the school she attended in Udon Thani (St Mary's & Don Bosco).

Don Bosco being the better of the 2, All movies at home, from animated to dramas, to love stories were all in English. The Thai English teachers were not good, and the non Yank English teachers, I even had a hard time understanding.

She got her Thai language at school, no need to speak it at home, she got here Esan language at Grandparents & local village kids. Fluent in 3 languages/dialect before the age of 7 or 8.

If son applies himself, he'll have his pick of Uni when ready, as she did, and had her pick of a few jobs that she wanted. Her English being a major plus for her career, online marketing/E commerce.

The things you mention are exactly the ambitions we had for the lad when he began at nursery school. Unfortunately he's in a horrible village about 65 km SE of UT and, as mentioned above, the lad won't stay away from home. His parents, despite paying for the IEP, don't seem to share our ambitions, which is sad. They're both Uni. graduates - as are my wife and myself - but the mum's connection to her parents and village life seems to override her son's educational advancement.

Thanks for all the responses, folks, but I think we'll have to accept that all our 'wants and desires' for the lad are irrelevant. We're only the grandparents, after all. 😞 😞

KhunLA · November 18

52 minutes ago, MartinL said:

Thanks. That explains what an IEP actually is, rather than what I imagined it to be which seems more akin to an immersive programme.

Very good post. Yes, permanently in Thailand. Before the lad started school, my wife - who's a retired teacher and could also help with other subjects - and I discussed having him with us - 200+ km from his parents - from time to time to help with his English. It was such an exciting prospect. His parents, specifically his mum whose own family live live next door to them, squashed that idea, preferring for him to stay in the village and learn about the farm. Which then begs the question "So why put him in an IEP then?". Now he's getting old enough to have an input on decisions affecting him, the boy refuses to stay with us unless his dad's there too, which would sort of negate the point of having him stay. We only get to see him for occasional weekends and, during those times, we catch up on recent events with him, have some fun and enjoy his all-too-short childhood. I ask him exactly the type of questions you suggest and have done so since he first began to acquire language but he still isn't able to respond without translation. We call him most evenings and, almost without exception, he's either eating or laying in front of the TV or his tablet. It's disheartening to see his receptive years being wasted like that. That's not his fault of course, rather the fault of his environment in which his maternal family - very nice people but ... - have almost no education and no ability to help him with his schooling.

As I said in the OP, we can get no information on teachers, curriculum or anything else re. the IEP although the boy has occasionally mentioned a 'foreign teacher'. I'm rapidly coming to the same conclusion you express - that IEP (at this particular school, at least) is a waste of time and money.

The things you mention are exactly the ambitions we had for the lad when he began at nursery school. Unfortunately he's in a horrible village about 65 km SE of UT and, as mentioned above, the lad won't stay away from home. His parents, despite paying for the IEP, don't seem to share our ambitions, which is sad. They're both Uni. graduates - as are my wife and myself - but the mum's connection to her parents and village life seems to override her son's educational advancement.

Thanks for all the responses, folks, but I think we'll have to accept that all our 'wants and desires' for the lad are irrelevant. We're only the grandparents, after all. 😞 😞

Instead of all that time back & forth, aside from the extra expense with no results, try spending the money locally at an English 'tutoring' program, after school. They had more than a few of those in the Udon Thani area, some OK, some useless, especially if the wee one, has no desire and doesn't apply himself.

Probably some online tutoring programs, but again, student really does have to apply himself.

Maybe pick a hobby for him, where everything is in English. Some type of orbit Raspberry Pi and Arduino circuit board kit would be my choice. Once building something, and seeing it work, will perk his interest. Could turn into a career 👍

I really got into building drones, and more fun than operating them actually. Building sh!t if fun, and no dangerous power tools needed.

youreavinalaff · November 18

4 hours ago, KhunLA said:

It seems you are wasting your money, and valuable time away from you son (assume boarding there) if English is the priority sending there. Why do you not simply teach him at home.

It's the OP's grandson.

youreavinalaff · November 18

1 hour ago, MartinL said:

Very good post. Yes, permanently in Thailand. Before the lad started school, my wife - who's a retired teacher and could also help with other subjects - and I discussed having him with us - 200+ km from his parents - from time to time to help with his English. It was such an exciting prospect. His parents, specifically his mum whose own family live live next door to them, squashed that idea, preferring for him to stay in the village and learn about the farm. Which then begs the question "So why put him in an IEP then?". Now he's getting old enough to have an input on decisions affecting him, the boy refuses to stay with us unless his dad's there too, which would sort of negate the point of having him stay. We only get to see him for occasional weekends and, during those times, we catch up on recent events with him, have some fun and enjoy his all-too-short childhood. I ask him exactly the type of questions you suggest and have done so since he first began to acquire language but he still isn't able to respond without translation. We call him most evenings and, almost without exception, he's either eating or laying in front of the TV or his tablet. It's disheartening to see his receptive years being wasted like that. That's not his fault of course, rather the fault of his environment in which his maternal family - very nice people but ... - have almost no education and no ability to help him with his schooling.

We had that issue with my wife's son, my stepson.

I had to move away to Bangkok suburbs for work. Wife wanted her son to come with us. I promised to put him through school there and give him opportunities. I promised we'd be back to Isaan in 5 years where I would continue to put him through school.

The child's paternal grandparents disagreed. The father was not particularly interested what happened.

The boy stayed with grandparents. He is now delinquent and often in trouble with the local constabulary. My wife has washed her hands of him as he only contacted when in need of money.

It's a shame.

Our daughter, only 3 years younger had the stable upbringing with us. Was taught to work hard to achieve. She is now in UK studying and working to be a nurse. What could have been for the boy? We'll never know but certainly he'd be in a better situation than he is now.

youreavinalaff · November 18

1 hour ago, KhunLA said:

Instead of all that time back & forth, aside from the extra expense with no results, try spending the money locally at an English 'tutoring' program, after school. They had more than a few of those in the Udon Thani area, some OK, some useless, especially if the wee one, has no desire and doesn't apply himself.

Probably some online tutoring programs, but again, student really does have to apply himself.

Maybe pick a hobby for him, where everything is in English. Some type of orbit Raspberry Pi and Arduino circuit board kit would be my choice. Once building something, and seeing it work, will perk his interest. Could turn into a career 👍

I really got into building drones, and more fun than operating them actually. Building sh!t if fun, and no dangerous power tools needed.

I think you need to read the OP again.

You appear to have misunderstood.

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