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Posted

Is there still a Citibank ATM at Asoke intersection where I can withdraw cash using my US-issued Citibank ATM card? Where exactly is it? Any other locations in Bangkok? Is exchange rate okay?

And what is I use my card with non-Citi ATM?

Thanks.

 

Posted
2 hours ago, JohnnyBD said:

This will allow your US bank to make the conversion to THB

A small correction on this.  For ATM withdrawals, purchases and cash advances on debit and credit cards, the actual foreign exchange rate is set by Visa and MasterCard, not the issuing banks.  They do the exchange and then bill your home country bank in its own currency.

 

The rates Visa and Mastercard use can be found at:

https://usa.visa.com/support/consumer/travel-support/exchange-rate-calculator.html

https://www.mastercard.us/en-us/personal/get-support/convert-currency.html

 

To get the correct rate remember to convert from the currency you withdrew from the ATM to your home currency.... not vice versa.

You may also have to adjust the fee percentage per your card's terms and conditions.

  • Agree 2
Posted
21 minutes ago, gamb00ler said:

A small correction on this.  For ATM withdrawals, purchases and cash advances on debit and credit cards, the actual foreign exchange rate is set by Visa and MasterCard, not the issuing banks.  They do the exchange and then bill your home country bank in its own currency.

 

The rates Visa and Mastercard use can be found at:

https://usa.visa.com/support/consumer/travel-support/exchange-rate-calculator.html

https://www.mastercard.us/en-us/personal/get-support/convert-currency.html

 

To get the correct rate remember to convert from the currency you withdrew from the ATM to your home currency.... not vice versa.

You may also have to adjust the fee percentage per your card's terms and conditions.

My US Chase bank debit card must not use those Visa & MC rates. I can get about 34.30 THB right now with my Chase debit card at the SCB ATM in my building. I tested it many times and it's usually .30 to .35 THB less than the spot rate.

 

I just checked the Visa rate and it's showing 33.6667 THB. This must have some kind of addtional markup which I do not have to pay with my Chase debit card.

20000 THB = 594.058812 USD

% Mark-up over European Central Bank Rate = 2.65

1 THB = 0.029703 USD

1 USD = 33.666700 THB

 

Posted
11 minutes ago, JohnnyBD said:

My US Chase bank debit card must not use those Visa & MC rates. I can get about 34.30 THB right now with my Chase debit card at the SCB ATM in my building. I tested it many times and it's usually .30 to .35 THB less than the spot rate.

 

I just checked the Visa rate and it's showing 33.6667 THB. This must have some kind of addtional markup which I do not have to pay with my Chase debit card.

20000 THB = 594.058812 USD

% Mark-up over European Central Bank Rate = 2.65

1 THB = 0.029703 USD

1 USD = 33.666700 THB

 

What do you put in the "Bank fee" field"?

 

The difference is due to that fee.

 

Here's what I get when I specify the bank fee is 0%:

 

Screen Shot 2024-11-26 at 9.41.13 PM.png

  • Agree 1
Posted

I only use debit cards that have NO foreign transaction fees.

All Visa and Mastercard debit and credit cards use the same exchange rates.  The differing results are due to the different foreign transaction fees that the issuing banks add on.  Some of those fees are as high as 3%.  Some are 0.

 

Visa and Mastercard set the rates once per day (Tue to Sat) at around 7AM Thai time.

  • Thanks 1
Posted
On 11/26/2024 at 9:45 PM, gamb00ler said:

What do you put in the "Bank fee" field"?

 

The difference is due to that fee.

 

Here's what I get when I specify the bank fee is 0%:

 

Screen Shot 2024-11-26 at 9.41.13 PM.png

Ok. That's what I did wrong.  My US Chase debit card has no foreign transaction fee also, so I should have put zero in the mark-up field.

Thanks for showing me.

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Posted
11 hours ago, gamb00ler said:

The differing results are due to the different foreign transaction fees

 

11 hours ago, JohnnyBD said:

Ok. That's what I did wrong. 

 

 

People often forget to factor in the 220 THB local ATM fee when calculating the overall resulting "rate". So if you took 20,000 THB away from the ATM it was actually 20,220 THB (in USD at the daily visa/mc rate).

 

This assumes that your bank does NOT reimburse this fee as do Fidelity, Schwab and a few others. No clue if Citi-US does.

 

 

  • Thumbs Up 1
Posted
27 minutes ago, bamnutsak said:

People often forget to factor in the 220 THB local ATM fee when calculating the overall resulting "rate". So if you took 20,000 THB away from the ATM it was actually 20,220 THB (in USD at the daily visa/mc rate).

 

This assumes that your bank does NOT reimburse this fee as do Fidelity, Schwab and a few others. No clue if Citi-US does.

Yes, the 220B fee is an extra for many people. I'm fortunate in that Chase Bank reimburses the 220B fees for me due to my relationship level with them.

Posted
12 minutes ago, JohnnyBD said:

Yes, the 220B fee is an extra for many people. I'm fortunate in that Chase Bank reimburses me for the 220B fees, due to my relationship level with them.

 

 

So why are you looking for a Citi ATM? You can use ANY ATM.

Posted
5 minutes ago, bamnutsak said:

So why are you looking for a Chase ATM? You can use ANY ATM.

I am not looking for a Chase ATM. You misread. The OP was looking for a Citibank ATM, and I replied to him that Citibank was taken over by UOB, so there are no more Citibank ATMs.

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Posted

Yes, I had Chase on the brain. But what was the reason for the OP to search out a Citi ATM in the first post?

 

They can use any ATM.

Posted
2 minutes ago, bamnutsak said:

Yes, I had Chase on the brain. But what was the reason for the OP to search out a Citi ATM in the first post?

 

They can use any ATM.

I'm not sure why he was inquiring about the Citibank ATMs, but I suspect it was to avoid the 220B fee since his card was a US-based Citibank debit card.

  • Agree 1
Posted

Thank you for all the helpful replies to my post.

Yes, I asked about Citibank ATM thinking I would then not have to pay the bank fee if using Thai ATM.

Citibank does not charge for overseas transfers via their website, but I checked yesterday about transferring $1500 to Bangkok Bank and exchange rate was 33.6927b. The Mastercard rate on their currency converter for same amount was 34.81b, if I did this right. Is it really that different? If so, seems better to use my Citibank card to withdraw from Bangkok Bank ATM, even factoring in the 220b local bank fee. Only thing is Bangkok Bank ATM withdrawal limit per transaction is 50000b, so would have to incur the 220b again for additional withdrawal.

Am I thinking right here? Thanks for guidance. 

Posted

Where did you get the 33.6927 exchange rate. Were you letting Citibank send THB to Bangkok Bank? I use Chase, and always send USD to Bangkok Bank. It works out better. Right now, Bangkok Bank's exchange rate is 34.28. Yesterday, the highest rate for incoming USD wire xfers was 34.56. You can check the Bangkok Bank TT Buying Rates at the link I listed below. There is a .0025 incoming wire fee (min 200B to max 500B).

Foreign Exchange Rates

Posted
2 hours ago, JohnnyBD said:

Where did you get the 33.6927 exchange rate. Were you letting Citibank send THB to Bangkok Bank? I use Chase, and always send USD to Bangkok Bank. It works out better. Right now, Bangkok Bank's exchange rate is 34.28. Yesterday, the highest rate for incoming USD wire xfers was 34.56. You can check the Bangkok Bank TT Buying Rates at the link I listed below. There is a .0025 incoming wire fee (min 200B to max 500B).

Foreign Exchange Rates

Yes, I did let Citi send THB. You mean if I elect to send USD to Bkk Bk, it arrives in baht currency (not dollars) but at a better rate than if I elect THB?

Posted
50 minutes ago, david_je said:

Yes, I did let Citi send THB. You mean if I elect to send USD to Bkk Bk, it arrives in baht currency (not dollars) but at a better rate than if I elect THB?

Yes, if you select the option for Citi to send USD, Bangkok Bank will convert the USD to THB when they recieve it at the TT Buying Rates which should be much better than letting Citi send THB. Give it a try next time. Check the link I sent for the current Bangkok Bank exchange rates. My wire transfers arrive the next day. The rates change several times per day. Good luck...

Posted
On 11/28/2024 at 4:03 PM, JohnnyBD said:

Yes, if you select the option for Citi to send USD, Bangkok Bank will convert the USD to THB when they recieve it at the TT Buying Rates which should be much better than letting Citi send THB. Give it a try next time. Check the link I sent for the current Bangkok Bank exchange rates. My wire transfers arrive the next day. The rates change several times per day. Good luck...

Thanks for that, very helpful; I was lost for so long. So when you want to transfer dollars as dollars, you must first have a dollar account at Bangkok Bank, I guess?

Posted
1 hour ago, david_je said:

Thanks for that, very helpful; I was lost for so long. So when you want to transfer dollars as dollars, you must first have a dollar account at Bangkok Bank, I guess?

I have USD accts because I thought I needed them for USD transfers, but then later I was told that I can send USD directly to my THB acct, and the banks will convert the USD to THB when they receive it. I still use my USD acct at Bangkok Bank because I can do the conversion online myself, but my other Thai banks require me to go into the banks, so I don't use those USD accts anymore.

Posted
On 11/28/2024 at 4:54 AM, david_je said:

Only thing is Bangkok Bank ATM withdrawal limit per transaction is 50000b, so would have to incur the 220b again for additional withdrawal.

 

Most (all?) Bangkok Bank ATMS will not dispense 50,000 THB in one transaction.  They are physically restricted to either 25,000 or 30,000 THB.

  • Like 1
Posted
14 hours ago, treetops said:

Most (all?) Bangkok Bank ATMS will not dispense 50,000 THB in one transaction. 

 

The OP might be better off doing a counter withdrawal? Where you withdraw your daily limit ($1,000? $1,500?, $2,500?) in one go.

 

Google: counter withdrawal site:aseannow.com

 

I could barely get 20,000 out of a new BBL ATM "slot" style, it took significant force to pull the cash out. Obviously, the "trough" style offers less physical limitation.

 

Given the 200 baht minimum fee (0.25% of the transfer amount Baht 200 Min., Baht 500 Max) for incoming SWIFT transfers, and the lower TT rate (34.07 - TT vs. 34.16 - Visa/~ nowish), it is probably better to eat the ATM fee for withdrawals up to ~ $750.

 

Amounts greater than that require may two pulls, and a 440 baht total fee. So go with a SWIFT transfer or a counter withdrawal.

 

This assumes that the ATM fee is NOT reimbursed, no foreign exchange fee and no SWIFT fees.

 

 

Posted
14 hours ago, bamnutsak said:

 

The OP might be better off doing a counter withdrawal? Where you withdraw your daily limit ($1,000? $1,500?, $2,500?) in one go.

 

Google: counter withdrawal site:aseannow.com

 

I could barely get 20,000 out of a new BBL ATM "slot" style, it took significant force to pull the cash out. Obviously, the "trough" style offers less physical limitation.

 

Given the 200 baht minimum fee (0.25% of the transfer amount Baht 200 Min., Baht 500 Max) for incoming SWIFT transfers, and the lower TT rate (34.07 - TT vs. 34.16 - Visa/~ nowish), it is probably better to eat the ATM fee for withdrawals up to ~ $750.

 

Amounts greater than that require may two pulls, and a 440 baht total fee. So go with a SWIFT transfer or a counter withdrawal.

 

This assumes that the ATM fee is NOT reimbursed, no foreign exchange fee and no SWIFT fees.

 

 

I can confirm that counter withdrawal works with BKK Bank and Krungsri (Only MC free of charge). Check with cc company if they add a fee for counter withdrawal, in my case there was no additional charge.

Posted
On 11/30/2024 at 7:56 PM, bamnutsak said:

 

The OP might be better off doing a counter withdrawal? Where you withdraw your daily limit ($1,000? $1,500?, $2,500?) in one go.

 

Google: counter withdrawal site:aseannow.com

 

I could barely get 20,000 out of a new BBL ATM "slot" style, it took significant force to pull the cash out. Obviously, the "trough" style offers less physical limitation.

 

Given the 200 baht minimum fee (0.25% of the transfer amount Baht 200 Min., Baht 500 Max) for incoming SWIFT transfers, and the lower TT rate (34.07 - TT vs. 34.16 - Visa/~ nowish), it is probably better to eat the ATM fee for withdrawals up to ~ $750.

 

Amounts greater than that require may two pulls, and a 440 baht total fee. So go with a SWIFT transfer or a counter withdrawal.

 

This assumes that the ATM fee is NOT reimbursed, no foreign exchange fee and no SWIFT fees.

I just checked the Visa rate at 12:15 pm today, it was 34.16 THB to USD, Bangkok Bank TT Buying rate was 34.31, and SCB TT rate was 34.35 and UOB TT rate was 34.36. It seems rates can go either way depending on when you want to convert.

20000 THB = 585.479508 USD

% Mark-up over European Central Bank Rate = 0.38

1 THB = 0.029274 USD

1 USD = 34.160034 THB

Posted
19 hours ago, JohnnyBD said:

I just checked the Visa rate at 12:15 pm today, it was 34.16 THB to USD

 

Yes, I made a CC purchase yesterday (Central Chidlom) and got that rate (34.155 rounded up). I think Visa has one rate per 24 hour period, but that idea may be wrong.

 

And yes, banks have their own TT rates, which can change multiple times per day. I think BBL had three rates yesterday.

  • Agree 1
  • 3 weeks later...
Posted
On 12/1/2024 at 7:56 AM, bamnutsak said:

 

The OP might be better off doing a counter withdrawal? Where you withdraw your daily limit ($1,000? $1,500?, $2,500?) in one go.

 

Google: counter withdrawal site:aseannow.com

 

I could barely get 20,000 out of a new BBL ATM "slot" style, it took significant force to pull the cash out. Obviously, the "trough" style offers less physical limitation.

 

Given the 200 baht minimum fee (0.25% of the transfer amount Baht 200 Min., Baht 500 Max) for incoming SWIFT transfers, and the lower TT rate (34.07 - TT vs. 34.16 - Visa/~ nowish), it is probably better to eat the ATM fee for withdrawals up to ~ $750.

 

Amounts greater than that require may two pulls, and a 440 baht total fee. So go with a SWIFT transfer or a counter withdrawal.

 

This assumes that the ATM fee is NOT reimbursed, no foreign exchange fee and no SWIFT fees.

 

 

I did Google and read a few of the other posts, but I am still unclear what exactly a counter withdrawal is. I go to the Bangkok Bangkok teller and tell her to withdraw a certain amount of USD from my (US-based) Citibank ATM card and deposit it into my Bangkok Bank account? I had never heard of anyone doing this. The advantage is it's no-charge, I don't pay the ATM fee if I did through ATM? What about in terms of exchange rate? Thank you for advice.

Posted

I have done many counter withdrawals at Bangkok bank but none for about 14 months.  I used to do a counter "cash advance" at any BKK bank but now they don't offer that service at the smaller mall branches (according to a teller).  I was told by the manager at a standalone BKK bank branch that they would do it if the VISA card had my name on it.

 

The exchange rate for all purchases, ATM withdrawals and counter withdrawals is the same for that day.

 

Make sure your debit card does not charge foreign transaction fees, otherwise they may be better options for getting your US funds to Thailand.

 

Here's how I did it:

I would check the VISA web site for the current exchange rate.  I would then calculate how much Thai ฿ I could get for a maximum limit withdrawal.  I would round that amount down to the closest 1K in ฿.  I always planned to deposit the whole amount to my BKK bank account.

 

I took just my passport, bank book and debit cards to the teller and and requested the amount of ฿ I calculated and told them to deposit it all to my account.

 

The teller would run my card through a machine that looked the same as stores used to use for credit card purchases.  A slip showing the transaction details would be printed which I had to sign and add my phone # as well.  The teller also made a copy of my passport ID page and had me sign it along with the deposit slip.

 

It took about 10 minutes at the teller window.

  • Thanks 1
Posted
On 11/26/2024 at 9:34 PM, JohnnyBD said:

My US Chase bank debit card must not use those Visa & MC rates. I can get about 34.30 THB right now with my Chase debit card at the SCB ATM in my building. I tested it many times and it's usually .30 to .35 THB less than the spot rate.

 

I just checked the Visa rate and it's showing 33.6667 THB. This must have some kind of addtional markup which I do not have to pay with my Chase debit card.

20000 THB = 594.058812 USD

% Mark-up over European Central Bank Rate = 2.65

1 THB = 0.029703 USD

1 USD = 33.666700 THB

 

 

The rates you want to be looking at to determine what's going on with a foreign bank card here are the actual VISA and MC foreign currency conversion websites, as follows:

 

https://www.mastercard.us/en-us/consumers/get-support/convert-currency.html

 

https://usa.visa.com/support/consumer/travel-support/exchange-rate-calculator.html

 

When a foreigner uses their home country VISA or MC debit card at an ATM in Thailand, it is indeed the VISA or MC networks that are setting the BASE exchange rate for the transactions -- unless the cardholder is duped at the ATM into consenting to DCC (Dynamic Currency Conversion) where the Thai bank is allowed to substitute their own much lower rate (often a 4-5% hit) in exchange for showing you the transaction amount in your card's home country currency instead of Thai baht.  Just say NO to that.

 

The only other reason a net/received exchange rate should differ much from the BASE MC or VISA card network rates for a given day is if one's home country bank is adding their own fees for foreign transactions, so-called foreign currency conversion or cross-border transaction fees. Those are very common, at least among major U.S. banks, including Chase, often in the 3-4% range.

 

So if your net achieved exchange rate using a foreign VISA or MC is different from the daily rates shown on the above VISA and MC websites (allowing for some minor variance in rates that occur during the day), it's probably because your home country bank is adding their own foreign currency conversion fees and/or because you've mistakenly agreed to DCC at the Thai ATM.

 

 

 

Posted
2 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

The rates you want to be looking at to determine what's going on with a foreign bank card here are the actual VISA and MC foreign currency conversion websites, as follows:

 

https://www.mastercard.us/en-us/consumers/get-support/convert-currency.html

 

https://usa.visa.com/support/consumer/travel-support/exchange-rate-calculator.html

 

When a foreigner uses their home country VISA or MC debit card at an ATM in Thailand, it is indeed the VISA or MC networks that are setting the BASE exchange rate for the transactions -- unless the cardholder is duped at the ATM into consenting to DCC (Dynamic Currency Conversion) where the Thai bank is allowed to substitute their own much lower rate (often a 4-5% hit) in exchange for showing you the transaction amount in your card's home country currency instead of Thai baht.  Just say NO to that.

 

The only other reason a net/received exchange rate should differ much from the BASE MC or VISA card network rates for a given day is if one's home country bank is adding their own fees for foreign transactions, so-called foreign currency conversion or cross-border transaction fees. Those are very common, at least among major U.S. banks, including Chase, often in the 3-4% range.

 

So if your net achieved exchange rate using a foreign VISA or MC is different from the daily rates shown on the above VISA and MC websites (allowing for some minor variance in rates that occur during the day), it's probably because your home country bank is adding their own foreign currency conversion fees and/or because you've mistakenly agreed to DCC at the Thai ATM.

Another poster pointed out my mistake. I didn't change the Bank fee field which was 2.65% mark-up. My bank doesn't charge any extra, so I should have put zero in the Bank fee % mark-up field. The Visa rate would have been very close to the Chase Bank rate of 34.30 in my example.

 

As you can see, I did it again by entering zero in the Bank fee field, and it gave me a .38% markup, not zero. I checked the Visa rate and it was 34.16 THB to USD. I compared it to the Bangkok Bank TT Buying rate which was 34.31, the SCB rate was 34.35 and the UOB rate was 34.36. I didn't check the Chase rate, but like you said it should be the same as the Visa & MC rates.

20000 THB = 585.479508 USD

% Mark-up over European Central Bank Rate = 0.38

1 THB = 0.029274 USD

1 USD = 34.160034 THB

Posted
On 12/20/2024 at 3:05 PM, david_je said:

I did Google and read a few of the other posts, but I am still unclear what exactly a counter withdrawal is. I go to the Bangkok Bangkok teller and tell her to withdraw a certain amount of USD from my (US-based) Citibank ATM card and deposit it into my Bangkok Bank account? I had never heard of anyone doing this. The advantage is it's no-charge, I don't pay the ATM fee if I did through ATM? What about in terms of exchange rate? Thank you for advice.

 


So-called counter withdrawals are a very long-standing method of foreigners obtaining Thai baht cash here that became particularly popular in recent years as the Thai banking industry, presumably in cahoots with the government, began jacking up the per withdrawal Thai bank ATM fees to the current 220 baht level, which from my past checking was one of the highest national ATM surcharges out there.

 

gamb00ler's post above did a pretty good job of explaining the basics of how it works.  The advantage is it allows you to avoid the 220b Thai Bank ATM fee. Another advantage is the withdrawal amount can pretty much be as much money as you have in your checking account linked to your debit card, unlike the typical 25-30K THB limits that apply per withdrawal for most Thai bank ATMs.

 

The potential disadvantages are several:

1) you have to deal with Thai-speaking bank staff who may or may not understand what you want.

2) Some branches and/or tellers will claim they can't do the counter withdrawal and they either don't have the necessary machine or know how to   accomplish it. I haven't found any absolute pattern to that, it seems to be hit-and-miss as a general rule. So it might involve some branch shopping to find a cooperative branch.

 

FWIW, you don't have to actually be an account holder at the bank company where you're trying to do a counter withdrawal, although presumably being an account holder with them should help. The transaction is pretty much just like making a POS purchase with your debit card, except instead of buying items, you're essentially buying Thai baht. In my experience, you can either ask them to simply give you the THB cash you want and they'll hand it over to you. Or, if you have an account with that particular branch, they should be able to instead simply do a deposit into your account for you for the corresponding amount.

 

As always, you do need to be mindful of fees. As time has passed, several of the Thai banks I believe have begun charging their own flat fees for counter withdrawals,  SCB being one of those, and Krungsri also last time I checked, but I think for only one of the two major card types, and I can't recall OTTOMH whether it's for
VISA or MC branded cards.

 

Also, if your home country bank charges a foreign currency conversion fee on foreign POS purchases or ATM withdrawals, that same percentage fee would apply for a foreign counter withdrawal. I've also seen, as best as I can recall, some U.S. banks also starting to charge their own added fee for counter withdrawals, even those done in the U.S. with domestic banks. So that's also something to check on/watch out for when you go to use any particular bank's debit card here.

 

Lastly, most people general should NOT attempt to do counter withdrawals here with foreign CREDIT CARDS, because doing so often is going to result in added fees for foreign currency conversion AND what can be very steep cash advance transaction fees (a percentage of your withdrawal amount) charged by your credit card issuer. That, and, the credit card issuing is going to have interest start accruing on the amount you advance as of the date of the transaction, without the typical one-month grace period that normally applies for regular credit card purchases.

 

And as noted above, to do a counter withdrawal here, you'll typically need to bring and present your original passport document to the bank teller.

 

 

Posted
On 12/20/2024 at 3:39 PM, gamb00ler said:

I have done many counter withdrawals at Bangkok bank but none for about 14 months.  I used to do a counter "cash advance" at any BKK bank but now they don't offer that service at the smaller mall branches (according to a teller).  I was told by the manager at a standalone BKK bank branch that they would do it if the VISA card had my name on it.

 

The exchange rate for all purchases, ATM withdrawals and counter withdrawals is the same for that day.

 

Make sure your debit card does not charge foreign transaction fees, otherwise they may be better options for getting your US funds to Thailand.

 

Here's how I did it:

I would check the VISA web site for the current exchange rate.  I would then calculate how much Thai ฿ I could get for a maximum limit withdrawal.  I would round that amount down to the closest 1K in ฿.  I always planned to deposit the whole amount to my BKK bank account.

 

I took just my passport, bank book and debit cards to the teller and and requested the amount of ฿ I calculated and told them to deposit it all to my account.

 

The teller would run my card through a machine that looked the same as stores used to use for credit card purchases.  A slip showing the transaction details would be printed which I had to sign and add my phone # as well.  The teller also made a copy of my passport ID page and had me sign it along with the deposit slip.

 

It took about 10 minutes at the teller window.

Thank you for that. I plan to use a US-issued Citibank ATM card for the withdrawal, not a credit card to get a cash advance. Is the bank book necessary? I am outside Bangkok at moment and don't have it with me.

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