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Fatal Motorcycle Crash at Notorious Bend Sparks Local Superstition


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Posted
5 minutes ago, kwilco said:

I'm not allowed to use the language that even approaches how ill-informed and totally wrong your blinkered ideas are ... you even managed to throw in a couple of reduction ad absudums for good measure and some false dichotomies

 

I agree with you 'sometimes' regarding road engineering and other factors... 

 

But sometimes an accident happens for no other reason than the simplicity of someone was being dumb....     you call it human error... I call it being stupid, and stupid people make more human errors.

 

 

You are making the human error right now of making the assumption that you have the answers and that road engineering is the issue...  Drink Driving and Speeding is clearly the issue and you can't road engineer people to stop doing that... 

 

 

... People can be educated,  they can be policed, a cultural shift can be effected....  but stupid people will still do stupid things.... 

 

... and to have this accident, this was not a sober rider travelling within reasonable speeds...  He'd have had an accident at some point because he was dumb enough to get drunk, and then complacent enough to either fall asleep and ride into a solid object, or complacent enough to go way too fast and lose control and hit a stationary object... & you can't remove all stationary objects...  stupid riders will find away to hit something...  not deliberately of course, but in aggregate thats the end result. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

  • Like 1
Posted
1 hour ago, richard_smith237 said:

Its not accident black-spot - thats just BS reporting...    its just an innocuous bit of road along which couple of idiots have managed to crash, through a) being drunk, b) not paying attention..... (or both).

 

 

Find me a bend or any road for that matter where Thai people do not drive over the line. Just last week  I saw a wreck with a big bike and a pickup truck where they collided going opposite directions. Why did this happen? Because there was land slide around a bend and instead of slowing down and proceeding with caution they both went full speed in the middle of the road.

 

Moreover, Just yesterday I go left around a sharp bend on my bike and there's a pickup truck who was halfway in the right lane making his turn, simply because it was more of a direct line for him then staying in the left lane. I swerved and avoided him but still wtf....

 

You can't fix these people and you can not make me care when they crash and kill themselves. If you're too stupid to understand why you should drive on the correct side of road then how are you a life worth saving?

Posted

You're getting your panties in a right old twist Kwilco...   

 

Triple quoting yourself...    the text-book engineer in you completely ignores the human facet of these issues - people are stupid enough to get themselves in difficult (and kill themselves) in pretty much any situation they are faced with...  

 

Put 100,000 people in an empty room for an hour, and one of them will find a way to do something stupid enough to kill themselves.... 

 

.. and the same can be said for the roads - it doesn't matter how well engineered they are idiots will do something stupid. 

 

 

Posted
1 minute ago, richard_smith237 said:

You're getting your panties in a right old twist Kwilco...   

 

Triple quoting yourself...    the text-book engineer in you completely ignores the human facet of these issues - people are stupid enough to get themselves in difficult (and kill themselves) in pretty much any situation they are faced with...  

 

Put 100,000 people in an empty room for an hour, and one of them will find a way to do something stupid enough to kill themselves.... 

 

.. and the same can be said for the roads - it doesn't matter how well engineered they are idiots will do something stupid. 

 

 

Still there? Come back when you you've educated yourself 

 

PS the first rule of road safety is you can't fix people....that's how it works...you would be a case in hand

Posted

OK, one last try....

Your statements underscore an important principle in road safety: focusing on blame based on drivers, nationality or identity is counterproductive. Effective road safety improvements come from understanding systemic factors, such as infrastructure design, legislation, driver behavior, and cultural norms, rather than attributing issues to a specific group.

By prioritizing evidence-based approaches—like studying crash data, human error patterns, vehicle safety standards, and urban planning—societies can better address the root causes of accidents. Blame detracts from collaboration and the pursuit of shared solutions, which are essential for reducing road-related injuries and fatalities globally

Posted
1 minute ago, kwilco said:

Still there? Come back when you you've educated yourself 

 

PS the first rule of road safety is you can't fix people....that's how it works...you would be a case in hand

 

Still at it...    Simple question - Is a road accident ever a persons fault ??? or is it always the roads fault ? (through lack of road engineering ?)

 

You are so locked into your binary rhetoric you fail to see any other picture. 

 

I understand your angle of road engineering, I think its valid in many cases... But you completely fail to identify that it doesn't matter how good the 'road engineering' is....  there are idiots out there who will still mess up through no other reason than they were doing something stupid...   

 

 

So... I agree... You can't fix people... That comment pretty much agrees that people are stupid and will get into accidents when they do something stupid... its the persons fault not the roads fault !!!..

 

If you we are going to discuss stupid, then we can clearly see how you've locked yourself into text-book theory have doubled down and now have no intelligent response without contradicting yourself. 

  

 

 

Posted
7 minutes ago, kwilco said:

Your statements underscore an important principle in road safety: focusing on blame based on drivers, nationality or identity is counterproductive. Effective road safety improvements come from understanding systemic factors, such as infrastructure design, legislation, driver behavior, and cultural norms, rather than attributing issues to a specific group.

 

I don't see how can you can say this given who we're talking about. The driving here is so uncivilized and nonsensical it supersedes everything else. We're talking about people that have problems controlling their emotions and seem to not have any regard for other people using the roads (basically children).

 

Even if you make them the most straight perfect road they will still find ways to crash and kill each other. This is obvious isn't it?

Posted
4 minutes ago, kwilco said:

OK, one last try....

Your statements underscore an important principle in road safety: focusing on blame based on drivers, nationality or identity is counterproductive. Effective road safety improvements come from understanding systemic factors, such as infrastructure design, legislation, driver behavior, and cultural norms, rather than attributing issues to a specific group.

By prioritizing evidence-based approaches—like studying crash data, human error patterns, vehicle safety standards, and urban planning—societies can better address the root causes of accidents. Blame detracts from collaboration and the pursuit of shared solutions, which are essential for reducing road-related injuries and fatalities globally

 

Agreed....  but all of the above will conclude specific groups are more prone to accidents than others - thats why there are insurance bands. 

 

Its a cultural norm here for men to ride drunk on motorcycles, many crash, a lot die...   Thats evidence based.

 

The human error patterns you want to highlight...   thats stupidity - dumb people speeding on narrow roads while drunk and hitting something hard... If someone did the same thing in the UK, I'd blame their stupidity.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Posted
6 minutes ago, NorthernRyland said:

don't see how can you can say this given who we're talking about.

That's yor problem.there stupid stupider and racist .

I've been driving here longer and further than most Thai people. It's only foreigners whao vant drive that don't understand driving here.

If you are in a 4 wheeled vehicle, you are in fact less likely to doe than you are in the USA 

Posted
4 minutes ago, NorthernRyland said:

I don't see how can you can say this given who we're talking about. The driving here is so uncivilized and nonsensical it supersedes everything else. We're talking about people that have problems controlling their emotions and seem to not have any regard for other people using the roads (basically children).

 

Even if you make them the most straight perfect road they will still find ways to crash and kill each other. This is obvious isn't it?

 

The issue Kwilco has, is that we as outside observers to all these tragedies can make the clear observation that we see so many people doing so many stupid things on the roads... He really does not like that word and wants to shoe-horn in accusations racism into the discussion....  

 

He thinks you can engineer problems out of a roads to make them safer, and he is of course right...  But he completely fails on the understanding that it doesn't matter how safe something is made, how well educated people are and trained... People will do stupid things... he said it himself "you can't fix people" - because stupid people do stupid things...

 

..... and men get on motorcycles while drunk or drive cars, while drunk and fail to navigate perfectly safe roads that the rest of society have no issue with...   Thats stupid people doing stupid things. 

 

IF this area truly were an accident blackspot, sober people would be having accidents at 7pm...   

 

This is not a 120kmh road that crests a hill into blind bend....  its a normal road, with a normal bend, nothing dangerous for most people when they are not blind drunk speeding, in which case everything becomes dangerous and that can't be engineered for. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

  • Like 1
Posted
4 minutes ago, kwilco said:

That's yor problem.there stupid stupider and racist .

I've been driving here longer and further than most Thai people. It's only foreigners whao vant drive that don't understand driving here.

 

The "I've been here longer than most"  argument is a clutch at straws....   

 

I've been driving here for 25 years and riding motorcycles here for 15 years...    that means nothing in this debate. 

 

And... as you have been driving here for that long then you have surely shaken your head at the many outrageous and stupid things you see....   Or, when you see something really stupid do you honestly think... "its the roads fault" ???

 

I know, I know...   you'll now argue that with road design the impact of the stupidity is less, because the 'road engineering'  protects people when an accident happens, i.e. removing power poles from the road, adding armco barriers etc...      

... people doing stupid things will still die on the roads.

 

 

4 minutes ago, kwilco said:

If you are in a 4 wheeled vehicle, you are in fact less likely to doe than you are in the USA 

 

I've presented that statistic plenty of times - but have also highlighted that as with all statistics the data is incomplete as it only accounts for population basis not per vehicle basis and does not include mileage covered per vehicle - so the result is potentially distorted. 

 

That said: for 4 wheeled vehicles - the Thai stat is 4x higher than the equivalent UK stat.

Posted
27 minutes ago, kwilco said:

That's yor problem.there stupid stupider and racist .

I've been driving here longer and further than most Thai people. It's only foreigners whao vant drive that don't understand driving here.

If you are in a 4 wheeled vehicle, you are in fact less likely to doe than you are in the USA 

 

ok so this is what we're dealing with. Thai drivers are the same as any others, it's just those pesky roads and farangs that's don't understand how we do things 'round here.. Next you'll be telling us the earth flat...

  • Agree 1
Posted
26 minutes ago, NorthernRyland said:

 

ok so this is what we're dealing with. Thai drivers are the same as any others, it's just those pesky roads and farangs that's don't understand how we do things 'round here.. Next you'll be telling us the earth flat...

I'd say that is more likely to come from you judging by your thinking on this thread. Pure prejudice and assumption.

Posted
19 minutes ago, kwilco said:

I'd say that is more likely to come from you judging by your thinking on this thread. Pure prejudice and assumption.

 

You're throwing prejudice to try and point score now, when its not prejudice, its basic observation. 

 

Is it prejudice when the Thai's I know make the same observations, that there are more people who do stupid things on the roads in Thailand than they do in the UK or Japan ???

 

 

 

 

Posted
4 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

You're throwing prejudice to try and point score now, when its not prejudice, its basic observation. 

 

Is it prejudice when the Thai's I know make the same observations, that there are more people who do stupid things on the roads in Thailand than they do in the UK or Japan ???

 

 

 

 

Why would Thai oeople make different observations...they know no more about road safety than you.

Hence the total lack of properly trained traffic engineers.

Posted
3 minutes ago, kwilco said:

Why would Thai oeople make different observations...they know no more about road safety than you.

Hence the total lack of properly trained traffic engineers.

 

 

Yawn...   This idea of yours that road engineers will stop stupid people from doing stupid things on the roads is completely delusional...    

 

You've failed at your attempts to shimmy in a prejudice and racist argument and your now failing a some basic common sense. 

 

Of course, engineering the roads for greater safety will bring improvement, reduce accidents, and fatalities... but it won't stop them all because there are still stupid people doing stupid things...    

 

Road design would not have stopped this accident... Education and effective policing may have, a cultural shift towards one that sees 'drink driving' as anti-social may have...   

 

But, none of this will prevent the consequences of stupidity....   if someone is intent on doing something as stupid as getting blind drunk, then trying to ride home and speed while doing so, losing control on a very mild bend, then there is no other cause for that accident than their stupidity. 

 

If more than one person does the same thing, that does not automatically mean that bend is poorly engineered, its just means that there are more than one drunk idiot driving too fast at that bend...   if they made that bend, they'd have an accident at the next, or perhaps the straight, or perhaps they'd get lucky and not have an accidence because they were drunk and fell asleep on a straight road...    

... but the stupidity of such actions means they are an accident waiting to happen and road engineering can't help that unless you are going to remove every possible obstacle from the road.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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