American on Dirt Bike Kills Thai Woman Crossing Road in Chiang Mai

[cdemundo]

11 hours ago, JoePai said:

Sorry where does it say the rider was "acting an idiot" ?

"Police have indicated they will charge him with reckless driving causing death."

 

There is an implication here.

[cdemundo]

10 hours ago, fredwiggy said:

If I had a nickel for all the assumptions I hear on this forum I could run against Trump in the next election. He may have been driving straight, at a normal speed, and the woman could have walked across the road without looking, which I see daily here all the years I've lived here. The only evidence that could judge this is CCTV. They're quick to decide against foreigners regarding traffic incidents here, which is prejudiced thinking before any evidence is there.

"all the assumptions I hear on this forum"

 

Reckless driving causing death.

What are you assuming about these charges?

 

"They're quick to decide against foreigners regarding traffic incidents here, which is prejudiced thinking before any evidence is there."

You don't have any information, just generalizing based on your prejudices.

[richard_smith237]

7 minutes ago, Moonlover said:

30 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

If he was not at fault and was simply riding down the road when the woman stepped out,  why would jail time or any compensation be considered at all ????

 

If he was proven to be speeding or riding dangerously, thats a different matter.

 

Thai Traffic Law Section 32 states:

 

'The driver shall be careful not to hit pedestrians and may use the horn if necessary. The driver shall be especially careful with children elderly persons and disabled persons'. 

 

The police will decide, of course whether the above applies. As is often said 'RTP, the finest police force money can buy'.

 

Thats somewhat irrelevant to my point regarding if he was not at fault...    

 

I questioned  - If the American guy was riding 'normally' and the lady simply stepped out in front of him, why would jail time or any compensation be considered at all ???? - the answer of course it that it wouldn't !!... 

 

 

[richard_smith237]

7 minutes ago, cdemundo said:

"Police have indicated they will charge him with reckless driving causing death."

 

There is an implication here.

 

Wrong - there is no implication there at all. 

 

In 100% of road traffic accidents in Thailand involving a road fatality and more than one vehicle, the driver (or rider) of the other vehicle is 'automatically' charged with 'reckless driving causing death' - thats simply SOP for any such incident. 

 

When no fault is founds, the charges are automatically dropped. If fault is found, charges are pursued. 

 

 

---------------

 

For example - IF you are driving carefully, within the speed limit etc... and a drunk motorcyclist rides into the back of you at speed killing himself and you have dash-cam footage to show all that... You will still be initially be charged with 'reckless driving causing death' - the charges will of course very quickly be dropped once processing takes place. 

 

[fredwiggy]

2 minutes ago, cdemundo said:

"all the assumptions I hear on this forum"

 

Reckless driving causing death.

What are you assuming about these charges?

 

"They're quick to decide against foreigners regarding traffic incidents here, which is prejudiced thinking before any evidence is there."

You don't have any information, just generalizing based on your prejudices.

The police assumed he was at fault with no evidence we have yet heard. Yes, there might be something the story hasn't told yet, but we are all going on what's written here. Police are quick to find fault in foreigners involved in accidents. This we all have heard living here for years. I had an accident here that was mostly the other driver's fault. I was turning and so was he. He crossed over into my side. The only thing that made it partly on my side was the fact I was turning, albeit staying in my own lane. The police heard both sides. I had to pay. In the US, they would have investigated more thoroughly and then made a decision, and the insurance companies would decide who pays for what.

 

I have no prejudice against anyone. If you did wrong, you pay for it, period. I just know what goes on here, as do many others, and lived in the US for 62 years, and saw things much differently.

[richard_smith237]

11 minutes ago, BarBoy said:

13 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Then, raise your standards and don’t limit yourself with such thoughtless musings, bigotry, or ignorance.

My 'musings' are based solely on my experiences whilst living in Thailand for many years.

 

As I assume yours are.

 

I can't help/change my own subjective reality, can I rich?...

 

 

Valid point - but you allow your bias to heavily impact your observations rather than intelligently view each situation based on its individual merit. 

 

In this case you use your bias to make wholly inaccurate and outlandish statements - if you were of balanced mind, you'd be capable of making balanced observations. 

[atpeace]

7 hours ago, PB172111 said:

Pedestrians do not have the right of way if they walk on the road

Pedestrians always have the right of way but that doesn't imply it was the cyclists fault.  

[BarBoy]

3 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

In this case you use your bias to make wholly inaccurate and outlandish statements - if you were of balanced mind, you'd be capable of making balanced observations. 

....it's hard to be of balanced mind when one lives in a completely unbalanced country!!!

[richard_smith237]

1 hour ago, GammaGlobulin said:

Why would two bikes be riding ALONGSIDE each other?

 

To chat and become distracted from what is up ahead on the road?

 

Was he also checking his phone?

 

Erm...  some rather bizarre processing going on there GG...    on a quiet road its not uncommon for riders to ride alongside each other. 

 

I'm not sure where your 'phone thing' comes in...   he wasn't a grab rider !

 

1 hour ago, GammaGlobulin said:

How many months had he spent in a country where traffic travels on the opposite side from roads in the US?

 

Whats the relevance of that if a pedestrians steps out ???  Do you think he was on the wrong side of the road ?

 

1 hour ago, GammaGlobulin said:

Did he only have an international license?

 

Whats the relevance of this ?...  Are you accusing him of riding illegally and not having a license ?

 

Also not, an IDP (permit not license) is not required for Americans as the Driving / Riding license is already in English.

 

1 hour ago, GammaGlobulin said:

 

I am looking forward to a LOT more information on this tragedy.

 

Tourists need a month-long course, and a learner's permit, not a license, for the first 6 months, and then...

Hopefully by then, they will be long gone.

 

 

Why ? most riders trained overseas are far better educated to ride safely.

 

Additionally, a rider could have decades of experience here and a pedestrian could step out in front of them at the last second at any time, training is somewhat moot when that happens. 

[fredwiggy]

1 minute ago, atpeace said:

Pedestrians always have the right of way but that doesn't imply it was the cyclists fault.  

This is a general answer that should apply anywhere..........No, pedestrians do not always have the right of way: ..

Pedestrian responsibility

Pedestrians must follow traffic laws and cross safely. They should not jaywalk, cross in the middle of the street, or cross outside of a crosswalk......

Driver responsibility

Drivers have a duty of care to pedestrians and other drivers. They should yield to pedestrians in certain circumstances, such as at crosswalks, intersections with traffic signals, and roundabouts. Drivers should also be aware of pedestrians crossing at unmarked crosswalks or intersections without traffic signals.......

Shared responsibility

Pedestrians and drivers should share responsibility for road safety. Pedestrians should stay alert, make eye contact with drivers, and understand and respect the other's space and rights. 

 

•  

.

[richard_smith237]

21 minutes ago, BarBoy said:

25 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

In this case you use your bias to make wholly inaccurate and outlandish statements - if you were of balanced mind, you'd be capable of making balanced observations. 

....it's hard to be of balanced mind when one lives in a completely unbalanced country!!!

 

At least you accept that your mindset is unbalanced... 

 

It could be argued that your bias is unhealthily distorted and way beyond and disproportionate to the imperfections encountered in Thailand.

 

 

[BarBoy]

1 minute ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

It could be argued that your bias is unhealthily distorted and way beyond and disproportionate to the imperfections encountered in Thailand.

 

 

...I think it's perfectly calibrated!

 

after a recent trip to a relatively 'normal' country, I am now firmly convinced in my observations that Thailand is completely barmy!!!

[cdemundo]

1 minute ago, fredwiggy said:

The police assumed he was at fault with no evidence we have yet heard. Yes, there might be something the story hasn't told yet, but we are all going on what's written here. Police are quick to find fault in foreigners involved in accidents. This we all have heard living here for years. I had an accident here that was mostly the other driver's fault. I was turning and so was he. He crossed over into my side. The only thing that made it partly on my side was the fact I was turning, albeit staying in my own lane. The police heard both sides. I had to pay. In the US, they would have investigated more thoroughly and then made a decision, and the insurance companies would decide who pays for what.

 

I have no prejudice against anyone. If you did wrong, you pay for it, period. I just know what goes on here, as do many others, and lived in the US for 62 years, and saw things much differently.

"The police assumed he was at fault with no evidence we have yet heard."

 

You were no doubt expecting a call where they explained it to you.

 

"I have no prejudice against anyone."

You clearly do, you are concluding that this guy was charged based on no evidence because of your prejudice against Thai law enforcement.

That you lack self-awareness is abundantly clear, that isn't an attack, that is just something you have demonstrated.

 

Here are the facts that have been presented:

An American man riding a motorcycle struck and killed a Thai woman who was a pedestrian.

The Thai police have charged him with reckless driving causing death.

 

But you somehow know that the Thai cops are charging him unfairly.

 

 

 

[atpeace]

2 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

This is a general answer that should apply anywhere..........No, pedestrians do not always have the right of way: ..

Pedestrian responsibility

Pedestrians must follow traffic laws and cross safely. They should not jaywalk, cross in the middle of the street, or cross outside of a crosswalk......

Driver responsibility

Drivers have a duty of care to pedestrians and other drivers. They should yield to pedestrians in certain circumstances, such as at crosswalks, intersections with traffic signals, and roundabouts. Drivers should also be aware of pedestrians crossing at unmarked crosswalks or intersections without traffic signals.......

Shared responsibility

Pedestrians and drivers should share responsibility for road safety. Pedestrians should stay alert, make eye contact with drivers, and understand and respect the other's space and rights. 

 

 

 

•  

.

All the above is true except that pedestrians don't always have the right of way which they always do. 

 

Try running a pedestrian over that was j walking and you could have avoided because you had the right of way.  I could volunteer some of the above posters for this experiment.

[fredwiggy]

Just now, cdemundo said:

"The police assumed he was at fault with no evidence we have yet heard."

 

You were no doubt expecting a call where they explained it to you.

 

"I have no prejudice against anyone."

You clearly do, you are concluding that this guy was charged based on no evidence because of your prejudice against Thai law enforcement.

That you lack self-awareness is abundantly clear, that isn't an attack, that is just something you have demonstrated.

 

Here are the facts that have been presented:

An American man riding a motorcycle struck and killed a Thai woman who was a pedestrian.

The Thai police have charged him with reckless driving causing death.

 

But you somehow know that the Thai cops are charging him unfairly.

 

 

 

Read what Richard said about being charged, and then charges dropped if there isn't any evidence of guilt. I lack self awareness? Do you think you know me? You don't. Don't assume like so many do here. If you had been reading all of what I and others have been saying, instead of skimming, you would see I put the blame nowhere until evidence is shown. I said possibilities, and another criticized that. If this story has more information, which they usually don't, then we would see if there was any evidence to have charges stick on the driver. Read all of what a person says before you judge them. You do notice that my post has quite a few likes and only two sad emojis. That means people agree not only with what I said, but that it makes sense because again, I said it could be either one or the other that's at fault, or maybe both.

[richard_smith237]

22 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

The police assumed he was at fault with no evidence we have yet heard. Yes, there might be something the story hasn't told yet, but we are all going on what's written here.

 

No they have not....  They've followed SOP for any road incident where a death exists. 

 

There has been no clear indication of fault in the reporting or actions of the Thai Police. 

 

 

22 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

Police are quick to find fault in foreigners involved in accidents. This we all have heard living here for years. I had an accident here that was mostly the other driver's fault.

 

I don't think so, not in my experience of over two decades here, my non-Thai (western) friends would argue the same. 

.... there is plenty of first hand anecdote which highlights that the police are simply indifferent. 

 

I have long highlighted that the Police here simply follow the path of least resistance. 

I've been involved in traffic incidents here and have not been treated unfairly or with negative bias. 

 

22 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

I was turning and so was he. He crossed over into my side. The only thing that made it partly on my side was the fact I was turning, albeit staying in my own lane. The police heard both sides. I had to pay. In the US, they would have investigated more thoroughly and then made a decision, and the insurance companies would decide who pays for what.

 

You gave in...  perhaps unfair, but had you pushed it the police would very likely say 50/50.... there is also the 'cultural facet' that the (seemingly) wealthier party pays, especially if the other vehicle has no insurance - its very likely this was the case and the 'arbitration' of the police simply pursued the course that it would have had the incident taken place between two Thai's... This is often handled differently than we are familiar with in the West and the uninitiated will cry 'victimisation' when really, the response is culturally predisposed. 

 

22 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

I have no prejudice against anyone. If you did wrong, you pay for it, period. I just know what goes on here, as do many others, and lived in the US for 62 years, and saw things much differently.

 

This might highlight a lack of understanding of how things work here with regards to cultural disposition in the event of an incident - often the poorer party gets away with a lot of things, that does not automatically mean the foreigner is at fault as some imply - it just means the foreigner does not understand why fault is not allocated in the 'black and white' manner it may be back in our home nations. 

 

 

 

[MalcolmB]

1 hour ago, fredwiggy said:

Seen it personally at my daughter's school more than twice, and had to talk to the supervisor to get her to stop the teacher who was doing it. I wouldn't hit a woman, but if this was a male teacher he would have gone down for the count, and there wouldn't be one thing they could do.

Sure Fred

[richard_smith237]

8 minutes ago, BarBoy said:

...I think it's perfectly calibrated!

 

after a recent trip to a relatively 'normal' country, I am now firmly convinced in my observations that Thailand is completely barmy!!!

 

Admittedly, there are plenty of unusual occurrences in Thailand. However, they are a far cry from the exaggerated, disparaging national mindset you so often attempt to depict with your bigoted sweeping generalisations.

 

 

 

[fredwiggy]

2 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

No they have not....  They've followed SOP for any road incident where a death exists. 

 

Your unfamiliarity with the process has influenced and resulted in flaws in your comments. 

 

 

 

No they are not.... there is plenty of first hand anecdote which highlights that the police are simply indifferent. 

I have long highlighted that they simply follow the path of least resistance. 

I've been involved in traffic incidents here and have not been treated unfairly or with negative bias. 

 

 

You gave in...  perhaps unfair, but had you pushed it the police would very likely say 50/50.... there is also the 'cultiral facet' that the (seemingly) wealthier party pays, especially if the other vehicle has no insurance - its very likely this was the case and the 'arbitration' of the police simply persued the course that it would have had the incident taken place between two Thai's... This is often handled differently than we are familiar with in the West and the uninitiated will cry 'victimisation' when really, the response is culturally predisposed. 

 

 

This might highlight a lack of understanding of how things work here with regards to cultural disposition in the event of an incident - often the poorer party gets away with a lot of things, that does not automatically mean the foreigner is at fault as some imply - it just means they foreigner does not understand why fault is not allocated in the 'black and white' manner it may be back in our home nations. 

 

 

 

I have not taken any side but again offered possibilities. I understand what you've said about SOP, but like you also said, no evidence of guilt, charges are dropped. I have seen prejudice and others have also. I'm not saying this always happens. The same thing also happens in the US, but insurance companies are the ones who decide who pays in the long run anyway. I didn't give in. I told the policeman what happened, translated mostly, and he took the other;s side. In the US it would have ended differently. I thought at first it would be 50/50 because I was turning, although staying in my own lane, which was evident from the debris from the cars in the road.

[MalcolmB]

3 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

You gave in...  perhaps unfair, but had you pushed it the police would very likely say 50/50.... there is also the 'cultiral facet' that the (seemingly) wealthier party pays, especially if the other vehicle has no insurance -

I wouldn’t bother Richard.

Fred always thinks the Thais are against him and thinks he knows everything even though he is effectively illiterate and can’t understand anything but a basic sentence. He makes up what he imagines they are saying.

 

He claims in this incident that the Thais were in the wrong but it is possible since he is an American that he just got mixed up what side of the road he was supposed to be on, didn’t understand how he was wrong because couldn’t understand what they were telling him and now feels like a victim.

 

Quite possible something similar with this incident. The American is sure acting with the family that he knows he was in the wrong.

He might might have been wearing dark tinted shades, with a dark tinted helmet and not have seen the poor lady.

[richard_smith237]

3 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

I have not taken any side but again offered possibilities. I understand what you've said about SOP, but like you also said, no evidence of guilt, charges are dropped. I have seen prejudice and others have also. I'm not saying this always happens. The same thing also happens in the US, but insurance companies are the ones who decide who pays in the long run anyway. I didn't give in. I told the policeman what happened, translated mostly, and he took the other;s side. In the US it would have ended differently. I thought at first it would be 50/50 because I was turning, although staying in my own lane, which was evident from the debris from the cars in the road.

 

I had a similar incident... 

 

I was turning right, shortly after coming off a junction fly-over - a mini-van had travelled the wrong way down a bus-lane to pass all the traffic, instead of driving to the left of the fly-over (where all vehicles had to go)...  

 

 

The other vehicle had no insurance, was operating an illegal mini-van route, I witnessed someone come in and pay the police some money. The Police initially said it was my fault - they were siding with the bribe. 

I was calm, polite, stubborn - refused to accept fault - mainly because the other driver was faking injury and I didn't want to be on the hook for compensation. 

 

I didn't accept the polices decision and they clearly unconvinced themselves (I had lot of scene photos) - ultimately the police got angry with the other driver who kept lying - the issue was nudged up to regional level and we had to go to a different station. I was treated very politely and told: 50/50 - my insurance will pay for my car only and there is no possibility for a compensation claim. 

Job done - an interesting process and I while I could see the police were initially corrupt, I was able to prevent that from impacting me. 

 

 

 

 

[MalcolmB]

20 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

If this story has more information, which they usually don't, then we would see if there was any evidence

Try reading other news sources for more information 

 

https://www.khaosod.co.th/around-thailand/news_9574164

[MalcolmB]

4 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Job done - an interesting process and I while I could see the police were initially corrupt, I was able to prevent that from impacting me. 

Great job Richard.

You are an amazing guy.

Fight police corruption when it is against you and use it for your mates when it is to your advantage.

 

You do seem to get into a lot of incidents.

[TedG]

2 hours ago, khunJam said:

And so many here just are unable to recognize this fact maybe because they’re guilty of the same driving habits.

Never you nor the OP are making posts based facts.   You have people have no idea what happen during this event.  

[richard_smith237]

2 minutes ago, MalcolmB said:

Try reading other news sources for more information 

 

https://www.khaosod.co.th/around-thailand/news_9574164

 

Again more usual rubbish from you - there is nothing in this article (in Thai) that is not already mentioned in the Op.

 

So don't try and pedal a Thai article that most people wont be able to read as if you are some culturally astute phenom when in reality there is no new information at all. 

[richard_smith237]

2 minutes ago, MalcolmB said:

Great job Richard.

You are an amazing guy.

Fight police corruption when it is against you and use it for your mates when it is to your advantage.

 

You do seem to get into a lot of incidents.

 

One road incident in well over two decades Malcy... Take your dumb gaslighting elsewhere or get better at it...  

[2long]

3 hours ago, transam said:

I have noticed a lot of members following this thread, all of you that are, have you noticed how some members here are going overboard to bury this chap, yes......?   

 

Well the same lot will do the same to you if you have a problem, try to hang you..... 🤔

Well said

[atpeace]

3 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

Again more usual rubbish from you - there is nothing in this article (in Thai) that is not already mentioned in the Op.

 

So don't try and pedal a Thai article that most people wont be able to read as if you are some culturally astute phenom when in reality there is no new information at all. 

It is in English but offers no new details 🙂  Better pics though...

[2long]

Without scrolling through 10 pages, has anyone questioned how a motorbike can kill a pedestrian in what appears to be in a built up area?

for my, it would need to be 

- extreme speed

- extreme bad luck

- something else, such as an underlying health issue

 

It's not as if he was driving a truck

[richard_smith237]

3 minutes ago, atpeace said:

7 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

Again more usual rubbish from you - there is nothing in this article (in Thai) that is not already mentioned in the Op.

 

So don't try and pedal a Thai article that most people wont be able to read as if you are some culturally astute phenom when in reality there is no new information at all. 

It is in English but offers no new details 🙂  Better pics though...

 

Its in Thai - your browser might be 'auto-translating' the article.