Revenue Department boss calls on tax residents in Thailand to file 2024 returns by March 31

[InlandSea]

Maybe this is a bit off topic, but last year I did the less than 180 days in Thailand so that I wouldn't have to figure this all out. I planned to do the same this year, but now that I'm looking at it I just can't do it. Going from Malaysia to the Philippines to Vietnam last year was interesting but it was also tiring. I really couldn't maintain a long term relationship and it wasn't that great for my physical health either. American banking kyc requires a permanent residence somewhere and as I don't have anything back in the States for that, the Airbnb/hotel route opened up a risk if I'd been found out. It also upended what to that point was my otherwise smooth transition into living here by dropping everything to hop on a plane and leave for 6 months.

 

So, anyway, this year I just decided to give that up for 2025. It sucks, but I'll deal with it if I have to. I've tried to structure investments at end of last year so that there are not much in the way of dividends or sales that will trigger capital gains. I already transferred my retirement visa deposit plus extra last year as a <180 day non-resident. Just putting this out there as one guy's perspective and to see if others are coming to a similar conclusion.

[NoDisplayName]

2 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

Do you think that the updated thai tax return could have something similar, or is that ' unpossible ' ?

 

We're two weeks into tax filing season.

Thousands have already filed.

So..............uhmmm.........what updated forms?

 

Regardless, requiring declaration of all remittances will be more than just a shift in interpretation.  Legislation will be needed.

[The Cyclist]

1 minute ago, NoDisplayName said:

We're two weeks into tax filing season.

Thousands have already filed.

So..............uhmmm.........what updated forms?

 

The ones that the TRD said would be forthcoming and the ones I just said have probably not been posted yet as the I's are still being dotted and the T's being crossed.

 

2 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

Regardless, requiring declaration of all remittances will be more than just a shift in interpretation.  Legislation will be needed.

 

Why would legislation be needed. Foreign tax residents can comply with whats on the tax forms or leave.

 

No legislation required.

[NoDisplayName]

1 minute ago, The Cyclist said:

Why would legislation be needed.

 

Legislation would be needed to require (foreign) tax-residents declare non-assessable exempt remittances, with a total redesign of tax forms.

 

The only change we've had for this year is the interpretation of how current year/prior year income is handled.  We don't need new forms for that.  The system is still self-determination by the tax-filer.

 

This is a major overhaul, not just a quick underpants snatch-n-grab.

 

7 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

Foreign tax residents can comply with whats on the tax forms or leave.

 

I do comply with the law and forms as currently extant.  I declare all remitted foreign assessable income.

 

When they decide to tax global income, then I will no longer be willing to comply.  At that point I'll leave, or at least become legally NON resident.

[Will B Good]

2 hours ago, JAS21 said:

I gifted money from the UK  to MrsJ … She records on a spread sheet exactly what she spends it on … I now make her pay from that account for everything she consumes …her share of food, her golf, her cloths, her car insurance, presents she buys etc. etc It’s amazing how low my credit card bill is now. In fact if they want me to pay an annual fee next year I’ll cancel it.

 

And she can prove her spending as it’s noted on her banking App.

 

Just started doing the same...for other reasons.....but I can see the benfit of nailing everything down should the tax man come after me.

[The Cyclist]

5 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

Legislation would be needed to require (foreign) tax-residents declare non-assessable exempt remittances, with a total redesign of tax forms.

 

A redesign of tax forms - Yes.

 

Legislation - No

 

The reason this page has not been updated yet, awaiting the redesigned / updated forms

 

https://www.rd.go.th/english/65308.html

[NoDisplayName]

38 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

The reason this page has not been updated yet, awaiting the redesigned / updated forms

 

15% of tax-filing season has already passed us by.

 

Those new forms aren't coming.  This is like waiting for daddy to return from going out for cigarettes............6 years ago.  Any day now, just wait.

 

No major redesign is coming this year.  At most, they'll give us an English version of the 2567 forms already available.  What they won't do is make major revisions to the English forms, but not the Thai forms.

[KhunHeineken]

After 35 pages of posts, just to refocus, the heading of the OP is this:  "Revenue Department boss calls on tax residents in Thailand to file 2024 returns by March 31." 

 

It's the boss of the revenue department telling you to file. 

 

We all know about "face" in Thailand. 

 

He might get nasty if foreigners don't do what he says. 

[NoDisplayName]

English tax forms available online:

https://www.rd.go.th/english/65308.html

 

Last updated: 17.12.2024

 

This is convenient.  Saves the expense of white-out.

Top line of the 2023 forms leaves the year blank.

Tax Year ........

[NoDisplayName]

1 hour ago, KhunHeineken said:

After 35 pages of posts, just to refocus, the heading of the OP is this:  "Revenue Department boss calls on tax residents in Thailand to file 2024 returns by March 31." 

 

It's the boss of the revenue department telling you to file. 

 

We all know about "face" in Thailand. 

 

He might get nasty if foreigners don't do what he says. 

 

The big guy never mentioned foreigners, that was added by the journalist.

 

He did (allegedly) say "New tax rules require filing electronically, with possible refunds for early submissions."

 

We know both of those to be incorrect.  Paper submissions are still possible, and refunds are not related to timing of submission.  I got three refunds for three years, all filed late.

 

According to the linked article "The Director-General of the Revenue Department on Thursday revealed that tax returns for 2024 can now be filed online. Mr. Pinsai Suraswadi, in particular, specified the annual return forms PND 90 and PND 91, which are due to be returned by March 31, 2025."

 

No 2024 English forms are available, so the big guy was definitively speaking to his domestic clientele, advising them to file.....IF they are required to.

 

[KhunHeineken]

13 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

The big guy never mentioned foreigners, that was added by the journalist.

Maybe the The Big Guy said to the journalist, "Can you add foreigners in there?" 

 

13 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

No 2024 English forms are available, so the big guy was definitively speaking to his domestic clientele, advising them to file.....IF they are required to.

I'm quite sure The Big Guy was talking to ALL tax residents of Thailand, and doesn't care about the Thai / English forms, because that's farang's problem.  Why should farang get a break, right? 

 

He just wants the money that he said to his bosses he could deliver on, so as to ensure his position.  I'm sure he'll get it, one way or another, and no votes lost screwing farang. 

[redwood1]

11 hours ago, The Cyclist said:

 

The ones that the TRD said would be forthcoming and the ones I just said have probably not been posted yet as the I's are still being dotted and the T's being crossed.

 

 

Why would legislation be needed. Foreign tax residents can comply with whats on the tax forms or leave.

 

No legislation required.

Why would legislation be needed. Foreign tax residents can comply with whats on the tax forms or leave.

 

 

 

Hey...Since your so Gung-Ho on paying taxes,I think it would be great if you paid all our taxes, so we did not have to leave...

[The Cyclist]

11 hours ago, NoDisplayName said:

15% of tax-filing season has already passed us by.

 

And ?
 

It takes a single day to print off a document, fill it in and take it to a tax office. There is still 85% of tax filing season left to do this.

 

10 hours ago, NoDisplayName said:

English tax forms available online:

https://www.rd.go.th/english/65308.html

 

Last updated: 17.12.2024

 

Although I cannot vouch for the dates that the 2017 - 23 tax forms were uploaded to the above link. It would be fair to say that they were uploaded in time to prinf off, fill in and file at a tax office.

 

What is staring me in the face, is that new updated forms as promised by the RD, have not yet been uploaded. Which potentially tells me that there is significant changes over the 2023 forms.

 

There is enough information by KPMG, Mazars, PwC and various others that are all saying the same thing, from 01 Jan 2024, things have changed with regards to taxation.

 

So what happened, or more importantly, did not happen, in the past is of no consequence, What matters is what happens going forward.

 

And just like the UK, I am siding towards reporting foreign income on a tax return.

 

@oldcpu  is familiar with the Canadian and German taxation system, perhaps he would be kind enough to dig into the latest tax forms from those Countries and tell us all what they say about Foreign income.

 

Ditto anyone else from other EOCD / CRS countries.

 

And I think it will be a safe bet that they all have sections for reporting Foreign Income.

 

Just to reiterate, this is International. Thailand agreed to it by signing up to CRS. It goes beyond Thai Domestic Tax Policy.

[oldcpu]

25 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

 

@oldcpu  is familiar with the Canadian and German taxation system, perhaps he would be kind enough to dig into the latest tax forms from those Countries and tell us all what they say about Foreign income.

 

 

I am out of date with regard to German tax forms.  The 1st year I moved to Thailand from Germany, I filed a tax return to Germany. In response I received a letter from the German government advising me that Thailand had exclusive rights on taxing my German pension and that since I was a resident of Thailand, unless my tax situation changed, I was advised by the German government that I was not required to file a German tax return.  Needless to say, I have kept that letter (I did not 'frame' it and hang it on a wall, although I was tempted 🙂 ).

 

As for Canada, I file a tax return to Canada every year for my Canadian pension (CPP) and my Canadian Old Age Security (OAS) and soon to also include my Canadian annual RRIF (Registered Retirement Income Fund) payments. Canada taxes those (and indeed only Canada has exclusive taxation rights on those according to Thai-Canada DTA).  Further, for Canada to select the tax rate under which I pay Canadian taxes, I am required to state on my Canadian tax return my total global income on my Canadian tax form, and also state the name & Canadian social insurance # (ie Canadian tax #) of my wife, if she were to have one.  

 

Edit : i am not required thou to provide supporting documents for the Global income (although I keep such in case I am ever audited).

 

Fortunately, since I am not a resident of Canada, I do not have to pay Canadian tax on all of my global income (rather my global income only affects my Canadian sourced income taxation rate).  I do thou, as noted, have to pay tax on all my Canadian income (and I pay at a higher rate than nominal due to size of my Global Income).

[The Cyclist]

6 minutes ago, oldcpu said:

I am out of date with regard to German tax forms

 

You mistook my meaning 😀

 

Here is the latest UK tax filing doc. Page 2, Item 5, you have to report Foreign Income.

 

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/6613fc8a213873b991031b88/SA100_2024.pdf

 

I have a sneaking suspicion that the latest tax forms, pertaining to CRS Countries, most likely, all have sections for reporting Foreign Income.

 

Does the latest Canadian Tax form, have a section for declaring Foreign Income, like the latest UK tax form ?

[oldcpu]

10 hours ago, NoDisplayName said:

According to the linked article "The Director-General of the Revenue Department on Thursday revealed that tax returns for 2024 can now be filed online. Mr. Pinsai Suraswadi, in particular, specified the annual return forms PND 90 and PND 91, which are due to be returned by March 31, 2025."

 

No 2024 English forms are available, so the big guy was definitively speaking to his domestic clientele, advising them to file.....IF they are required to.

 

 

A couple of additional points that I have been pondering ...

 

The Thai tax forms can only be filed online IF one already has a Thai TIN.  How many expats already have a TIN.  I don't know the statistics , but if I had to guess, I would guess much less than 50% of expats have a Thai TIN.

 

As noted as well, the Thai 2023 tax return form, while it has the 'year field' blank on the first page, does have the year 2023 hard printed on the exemption page.  That exemption page (and also other pages) don't have fields (that I could spot) for tax exemptions for items under DTAs, nor for paw-161/162, nor for LTR-WP, LTR-WGC, LTR-WFHP.  That suggests to me that either (1)  a new English language 2024 tax from is still coming, or (2) income from  items  covered under DTA exclusions, &  paw-161/162 exclusions, & LTR-WP, LTR-WGC, LTR-WFHP income exclusions are not to be reported. For if reported, there is no place to then list them as deductions.

 

I find this all a bit confusing.

 

I wish all expats in Thailand the very best wishes in choosing a proper legal way forward in regards to filing a Thaliand 2024 tax return (or not filing such a tax return if determined it is not legally required -....  just be certain to be legally accurate there).

[oldcpu]

2 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

 

Does the latest Canadian Tax form, have a section for declaring Foreign Income, like the latest UK tax form ?

 

i think you missed that in my previous reply.  I already stated on the Canadian tax form one is required to list their total Global Income (although supporting documents are not required when listing such).

.

[The Cyclist]

4 minutes ago, oldcpu said:

 

i think you missed that in my previous reply.  I already stated on the Canadian tax form one is required to list their total Global Income (although supporting documents are not required when listing such).

.

 

My apologies, I certainly did miss it.

 

And I'll go a step further and suggest ( because I haven't looked, or even care to look ) that most, if not all, other CRS Countries, also have a Section for Listing / Reporting  their Overseas Income.

 

So why people on this thread would think Thailand ( A CRS Country ) would be any different, is quite beyond me.

[Yumthai]

30 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

So what happened, or more importantly, did not happen, in the past is of no consequence, What matters is what happens going forward.

Nobody has a clue about what's gonna happen forward. You keep repeating, with few other legalists and doomsters, that Thailand will start strict tax collection is inevitable. Fair enough. Now, just accept that others think that such tax crackdowns somehow won't happen (for many valid reasons) and have made their decisions accordingly.

[The Cyclist]

4 minutes ago, Yumthai said:

Nobody has a clue about what's gonna happen forward. You keep repeating, with few other legalists and doomsters, that Thailand will start strict tax collection is inevitable.

 

No I haven't, so you might want to take your blinkers off and understand what I am actually saying.

 

Stricter Reporting, does not mean stricter tax collection. DTA's will determine what tax can, or cannot be collected.

 

Try and understand the difference, before hitting the keyboard.

[oldcpu]

5 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

So why people on this thread would think Thailand ( A CRS Country ) would be any different, is quite beyond me.

 

I suspect you have an idea as to the response:  TiT (This is Thailand).  🙂

 

But on a more serious note, to be the 'devils advocate',  Thailand is in some respects different. 

 

In the case of Canada and Germany, if one is a resident of those countries, one is required to report all global income and pay tax on all global income to those countries (which ever one that one is a resident).  It does not matter for those 2 countries whether one leaves the money outside of the country or brings the money in to those countries. One still MUST pay tax to those countries on such (again only if one is a tax resident).

 

However as of yet, Thailand does not tax foreign income if the money is not remitted to Thailand (even thou one is a tax resident of Thailand).

 

So Thailand is different there.  And if different there - why can Thailand not be different elsewhere?

 

[Yumthai]

7 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

Stricter Reporting, does not mean stricter tax collection. DTA's will determine what tax can, or cannot be collected.

What's the point of stricter reporting if it's not to eventually collect more tax? DTA's certainly do not cover all remitted money and countries. You're confused.

[The Cyclist]

7 minutes ago, oldcpu said:

I suspect you have an idea as to the response:  TiT (This is Thailand).  🙂

 

Sure 😀😀

 

And you have, perhaps unwittingly, encapsulates it.

 

8 minutes ago, oldcpu said:

However as of yet, Thailand does not tax foreign income if the money is not remitted to Thailand (even thou one is a tax resident of Thailand).

 

It is not necessarily about the taxation of Foreign Income, but the Reporting of Foreign Income.

[topt]

30 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

 

You mistook my meaning 😀

 

Here is the latest UK tax filing doc. Page 2, Item 5, you have to report Foreign Income.

 

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/6613fc8a213873b991031b88/SA100_2024.pdf

 

I have a sneaking suspicion that the latest tax forms, pertaining to CRS Countries, most likely, all have sections for reporting Foreign Income.

 

Does the latest Canadian Tax form, have a section for declaring Foreign Income, like the latest UK tax form ?

Not sure how relevant but for the UK you have, as far as I know, always had to report foreign income. It was certainly on the tax forms going back to 2015 and I am guessing before that as well.

[The Cyclist]

2 minutes ago, Yumthai said:

What's the point of stricter reporting if it's not to eventually collect more tax?

 

The detection and elimination of tax evasion. The core purpose of CRS.

 

Not much point in a Country joining CRS, if it is not  going to participate in its core function/ purpose.

[The Cyclist]

1 minute ago, topt said:

Not sure how relevant but for the UK you have, as far as I know, always had to report foreign income. It was certainly on the tax forms going back to 2015 and I am guessing before that as well.

 

It wasn't required prior to 2010. I cannot say when it actually started.

 

There was changes made about 2012, it could have happened then, I was already pretty much gone full time from the UK by then.

[The Cyclist]

Latest rant from Mr Hart

 

 

 

I fully understand why he is ranting, and it will also tell you the direction of travel, which is being steered from outside Thailand.

 

The First step in the process has been undertaken, by Thailand signing up to the OECD's CRS.

 

So Mr Hartnis correct by stating that no new domestic laws have been implimented, they dont need to be when you join an International agreement. Which is normally then folded into domestic law, or left as a stand alone agreement.

[NoDisplayName]

4 hours ago, The Cyclist said:

And ?
 

It takes a single day to print off a document, fill it in and take it to a tax office. There is still 85% of tax filing season left to do this.

 

15% of the tax season has passed us by, and thousands, soon to be millions will have filed their tax returns, with no new English forms provided.

 

The new 2567 Thai forms are available online.

 

And you think sometime in the middle of tax season, or heck maybe even on the last day 'cause it only takes a day to file, possibly millions of taxpayers will become obligated to re-file their tax returns?

 

Or do you expect major changes requiring declaration of all foreign remittances, including those non-assessable and exempt and non-taxable, will ONLY be required on English language forms?  Berry pickers returned from Finland get a free pass?

 

In that case, I'll just file Thai tax forms, as legally permitted, and not declare that which must not be declared.

 

Even better, when Thailand moves to global taxation (on English forms only), me and the Russian and Chinese non-English speaking tax residents won't have to comply.

 

Genius!

[The Cyclist]

4 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

15% of the tax season has passed us by, and thousands, soon to be millions will have filed their tax returns, with no new English forms provided.

 

5 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

And you think sometime in the middle of tax season, or heck maybe even on the last day 'cause it only takes a day to file, possibly millions of taxpayers will become obligated to re-file their tax returns?

 

Who, and where are these millions of retiree tax residents that you speak of ?
 

hyperbole much.

[redwood1]

9 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

15% of the tax season has passed us by, and thousands, soon to be millions will have filed their tax returns, with no new English forms provided.

 

The new 2567 Thai forms are available online.

 

And you think sometime in the middle of tax season, or heck maybe even on the last day 'cause it only takes a day to file, possibly millions of taxpayers will become obligated to re-file their tax returns?

 

Or do you expect major changes requiring declaration of all foreign remittances, including those non-assessable and exempt and non-taxable, will ONLY be required on English language forms?  Berry pickers returned from Finland get a free pass?

 

In that case, I'll just file Thai tax forms, as legally permitted, and not declare that which must not be declared.

 

Even better, when Thailand moves to global taxation (on English forms only), me and the Russian and Chinese non-English speaking tax residents won't have to comply.

 

Genius!

 

Even better, when Thailand moves to global taxation (on English forms only), me and the Russian and Chinese non-English speaking tax residents won't have to comply.

 

 

 

Well if the Tax forms are in UK  English  instead of American English then I for sure will not need to file because UK English sounds funny to me and I cant understand it.......