Today's experience trying to obtain my tax refund

[tandor]

1 hour ago, Presnock said:

You need to check your country's DTA carefully - my US DTA says specifically that my civil service pension can ONLY be taxed by the US govt.  Same with social security and if too low, the ss might below taxable income in US but still by virtue of the wording in the DTA it still is not taxable by Thailand, only the US.

..once again, this Topic is about Australian Pensions not US.

[jojothai]

16 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Pensions clearly pay out income.

It may not be income currently earned, but it is still income.

Thailand differentiates between ACCESSABLE pension income and EXCLUDED pension income (if remitted).

U.S. social security is EXCLUDED. 

That said, my current understanding is that Thailand classifies U.S. retirement account withdrawals (IRAs, 401ks) as accessable pension income when in no way does the U.S. consider them as pensions (but withdrawals can be taxable income (Roth vs. Traditional IRAs). 

A classic pension has defined payments.

A person could have an IRA and take out zero one year, 100K another year, at their choosing. How is that a pension?

In that case you are only referring to a US consideration. Not for anybody else.

So if that is the case then it clarifies.

[TigerandDog]

17 hours ago, jojothai said:

? Please clarify where this is stated

 

In thailand pension is classed as income.

Its something that i see on the tax, legal advice and investment sites , and they all seem to state the same.

According to my Provincial TRD their definition of pension is PRIVATE pension, NOT Govt pensions. They also deem the Australian Old Age pension to be a social security payment not a pension payment, and under Thai tax law social security is not assessable, therefore tax free.

It's feasible that TRD's in other provinces may interpret the OZ/Thai DTA differently, but everyone who is commenting negatively is ignoring the fact that this was what I actually experienced and the information I was given when lodging my tax return for 2024.

 

Would appreciate it if Administrators closed this post, as there are too many making comments that are irrelevant to what I posted.

[TigerandDog]

17 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Pensions clearly pay out income.

It may not be income currently earned, but it is still income.

Thailand differentiates between ACCESSABLE pension income and EXCLUDED pension income (if remitted).

U.S. social security is EXCLUDED. 

That said, my current understanding is that Thailand classifies U.S. retirement account withdrawals (IRAs, 401ks) as accessable pension income when in no way does the U.S. consider them as pensions (but withdrawals can be taxable income (Roth vs. Traditional IRAs). 

A classic pension has defined payments.

A person could have an IRA and take out zero one year, 100K another year, at their choosing. How is that a pension?

WHY are you posting about the US situation on a post that is ONLY relevant to the Australia/Thai DTA? Your comments are totally irrelevant to the original post.

[Jingthing]

43 minutes ago, jojothai said:

In that case you are only referring to a US consideration. Not for anybody else.

So if that is the case then it clarifies.

Just one example.

You need to check the dta if any for your country. 

 

[Jingthing]

16 minutes ago, TigerandDog said:

WHY are you posting about the US situation on a post that is ONLY relevant to the Australia/Thai DTA? Your comments are totally irrelevant to the original post.

 

I wad replying to members speaking off Australia specific.

 

[TigerandDog]

Just now, Jingthing said:

Resd the thread!

I wad replying to saulbundy post which was not country specific.

 

you missed the point completely. The original post WAS ONLY relevant to the Australia/Thai DTA, and that was clarified in the very first sentence of the original post.

Everybody, including yourself, that posted comments that had nothing to do with the OZ/Thai DTA were all off topic and therefore irrelevant. It doesn't matter whether you were replying to someone else or not. It WAS off topic and irrelevant.

[Jingthing]

3 minutes ago, TigerandDog said:

you missed the point completely. The original post WAS ONLY relevant to the Australia/Thai DTA, and that was clarified in the very first sentence of the original post.

Everybody, including yourself, that posted comments that had nothing to do with the OZ/Thai DTA were all off topic and therefore irrelevant. It doesn't matter whether you were replying to someone else or not. It WAS off topic and irrelevant.

Threads take turns. Like herding cats.

[jesimps]

On 1/14/2025 at 8:31 AM, TigerandDog said:

Your initial comment re the tax office not knowing what a DTA is is INCORRECT. It was an individual that didn't know, the manager was aware of the DTA and ascertained from the Provincial Revenue Office whether her interpretation of the DTA was correct.

Apart from that I'm not really sure why you posted a comment about your German situation. This information was ONLY relevant to Australians. Other nationalities will need to do their own investigating relevant to their specific DTA's if they have one.

I think it's the height of incompetence that an officer of the TRD dealing with the taxing of foreigners, isn't aware of the DTA. Surely that is an integral part of a farang's tax calculations. I can see a lot of good-intentioned foreigners being burned because of the TRD's ineptitude.

[Briggsy]

The decision as to what is exempt and what is assessable under Thai Income Tax legislation is first and foremost laid out in the Thai tax legislation NOT the DTA.

 

Revenue Code (Official English Translation)

Chapter 3 Income Tax

Section 42 Exempt Income

Paragraph 25 Compensatory benefit received by the taxpayer from the social security fund under the law governing social security.

 

That is why the Revenue Department officer stated your Australian Age Pension is exempt.

 

Use the Thai tax legislation to guide you.

 

@TigerandDog

[black tabby12345]

The end result being that my tax return comprised of only the interest earned and the tax deducted, thus meaning I will receive a 100% tax refund.

 

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Thank you for your post.

Is the Interest you mentioned here means  the interest   from Thai bank account(Term Deposit)?

 

And can I understand that the 15% withholding tax applied previously , will eventually come back to you, as that amount is less than the Taxable Amount?

 

I am not a pensioner, but felt the whole of your experience very interesting.

Thank you again for your input.

 

 

[TigerandDog]

21 hours ago, black tabby12345 said:

The end result being that my tax return comprised of only the interest earned and the tax deducted, thus meaning I will receive a 100% tax refund.

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Thank you for your post.

Is the Interest you mentioned here means  the interest   from Thai bank account(Term Deposit)?

 

And can I understand that the 15% withholding tax applied previously , will eventually come back to you, as that amount is less than the Taxable Amount?

 

I am not a pensioner, but felt the whole of your experience very interesting.

Thank you again for your input.

 

 

the tax deducted was on the interest earned in my Thai bank account. I closed all my home country bank accounts when I moved here in 2014, and yes 100% of the tax deducted will be refunded as the interest earned was well below the taxable amount.

[black tabby12345]

1 hour ago, TigerandDog said:

the tax deducted was on the interest earned in my Thai bank account. I closed all my home country bank accounts when I moved here in 2014, and yes 100% of the tax deducted will be refunded as the interest earned was well below the taxable amount.

 

Hello, thank you very much for your kind reply.

Hope you continue to live a happy life in this kingdom.

Have a good day.