Thai tax tangle: Expats warned of new rules on overseas income

[The Cyclist]

6 minutes ago, JimGant said:

Are you serious? Nobody can tell you anything.

 

Another load of coins 

 

 

 

Best phone Dhanabol, Tax Consultant at Siam Legal, and tell him that  he is also wrong.

[Badrabbit]

Went to my tax office again, explained to them I get pensions from the UK, pay tax in the UK.

Thay yet again said "due to the double taxation agreement you won't pay tax here"

If Immigration should mention it I just show them proof of my tax payments.

 

[oldcpu]

6 minutes ago, Badrabbit said:

Went to my tax office again, explained to them I get pensions from the UK, pay tax in the UK.

Thay yet again said "due to the double taxation agreement you won't pay tax here"

If Immigration should mention it I just show them proof of my tax payments.

 

Thankyou for sharing your experience. 

 

I assume that your pension is a civil servant or military pension.

 

I suspect there are some on the forum who won't believe you.

 

I appreciate your sharing in spite of the disbelievers.

 

[Raindancer]

6 minutes ago, Badrabbit said:

Went to my tax office again, explained to them I get pensions from the UK, pay tax in the UK.

Thay yet again said "due to the double taxation agreement you won't pay tax here"

If Immigration should mention it I just show them proof of my tax payments.

 

Why do people keep mentioning immigration in conjunction with tax returns?

 

The TRD have no clue as to whether immigration  will at any stage require this proof.

 

Why not wait out until if and when it happens.

 

 

[rocketboy2]

Anyone know how.

pre 2024,  uk rental income, that was taxed in the uk.

( that's tax on anything over the uk personal allowance of 12,750 )

is treated, if say 20,000 GBP of it  was remitted to Thailand this year.

is it  taxable  income or not.

Thanks,  rocketboy2.

[SHA 2 BKK]

Just now, rocketboy2 said:

Anyone know how.

pre 2024,  uk rental income, that was taxed in the uk.

( that's tax on anything over the uk personal allowance of 12,750 )

is treated, if say 20,000 GBP of it  was remitted to Thailand this year.

is it  taxable  income or not.

Thanks,  rocketboy2.

IMHO no as it’s pre 2024.  But I’m not local Thai Tax advisor.   Also your UK Thai DTA should I imagine cover double taxation for future remittances.    Though I am unsure of the exact wording. 
 

As with all this tax issue there is no one shoe fits all.  

[rocketboy2]

1 minute ago, SHA 2 BKK said:

IMHO no as it’s pre 2024.  But I’m not local Thai Tax advisor.   Also your UK Thai DTA should I imagine cover double taxation for future remittances.    Though I am unsure of the exact wording. 
 

As with all this tax issue there is no one shoe fits all.  

 

Thanks for your reply.

yes tricky.

I have no idea how the DTA is going to play out and what paper work is required as proof down the road.

I still may side step this year as I did last year and spend down some cash in the bank here.

[Badrabbit]

22 minutes ago, Raindancer said:

Why do people keep mentioning immigration in conjunction with tax returns?

 

The TRD have no clue as to whether immigration  will at any stage require this proof.

 

Why not wait out until if and when it happens.

 

 

Yes I am but it's good to get a heads up.

[The Cyclist]

16 minutes ago, rocketboy2 said:

Anyone know how.

pre 2024,  uk rental income, that was taxed in the uk.

( that's tax on anything over the uk personal allowance of 12,750 )

is treated, if say 20,000 GBP of it  was remitted to Thailand this year.

is it  taxable  income or not.

Thanks,  rocketboy2.

 

My understanding, and not fact, and neither is it tax advice.

 

Assuming this money is currently sat in a UK Bank. A UK Bank statement from the end of December 2023, will allow you to remit the amount of money on that statement into Thailand, free of tax.

 

Classed as Pre January  2024 savings.

[Raindancer]

14 minutes ago, Badrabbit said:

Yes I am but it's good to get a heads up.

I'll think about it when and if it happens.  But I would not take any statement from TRD on immigration  with any credibility. 

 

 According to a previous statement by the Superintdent of Chonburi and yesterday Superintendent of CM, there are no plans to introduce the requirement to provide proof of income tax payments, in order to be granted a renewal of visas.

 

But.....this is Thailand....so who knows 😄

 

[rocketboy2]

1 minute ago, The Cyclist said:

 

My understanding, and not fact, and neither is it tax advice.

 

Assuming this money is currently sat in a UK Bank. A UK Bank statement from the end of December 2023, will allow you to remit the amount of money on that statement into Thailand, free of tax.

 

Classed as Pre January  2024 savings.

 

Ok thanks for your reply.

It does seam that way.

It's in an offshore isleman bank. but funds were of uk  origin.  

But does foreign rental income ever become savings in the eyes of the Thai revenue department.

 

 

[jayboy]

51 minutes ago, Badrabbit said:

If Immigration should mention it I just show them proof of my tax payments.

 

Some people are clearly driving themselves crazy.

[The Cyclist]

8 minutes ago, rocketboy2 said:

It's in an offshore isleman bank. but funds were of uk  origin.  

But does foreign rental income ever become savings in the eyes of the Thai revenue department.

 

Again, only my understanding.

 

I doesn't matter what those Pre 01 Jan 2024 money came from, it is classed as savings.

 

Any Rental income after 01 Jan 2024, remitted to Thailand, would become assessable income and liable for thai tax, depending on the amount and tax already paid in the UK.

[rocketboy2]

2 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

 

Again, only my understanding.

 

I doesn't matter what those Pre 01 Jan 2024 money came from, it is classed as savings.

 

Any Rental income after 01 Jan 2024, remitted to Thailand, would become assessable income and liable for thai tax, depending on the amount and tax already paid in the UK.

 

Ok thanks for the reply.

That's good news, that the pre 2024 money is all classed as savings. 

 

[The Cyclist]

1 minute ago, rocketboy2 said:

 

Ok thanks for the reply.

That's good news, that the pre 2024 money is all classed as savings. 

 

 

Just make sure your paperwork is squeaky clean and backs up what you are claiming.

[NoDisplayName]

1 hour ago, rocketboy2 said:

Anyone know how.

pre 2024,  uk rental income, that was taxed in the uk.

( that's tax on anything over the uk personal allowance of 12,750 )

is treated, if say 20,000 GBP of it  was remitted to Thailand this year.

is it  taxable  income or not.

Thanks,  rocketboy2.

 

It's not rocket science!

 

If a foreigner derives income from sources outside Thailand, such income is subject to income tax if the two following conditions are met:
such income has been earned in any tax year starting from 1 January 2024 onward by a foreigner who stays in Thailand for 180 days or more in a tax (calendar) year, and;
such income earned has been remitted to Thailand (wholly or partially), even if that remittance occurs in a later tax year

 

FOREIGN-SOURCED INCOME NOT SUBJECT TO THAI TAX
Foreign sourced income derived before 1st January 2024 and remitted into Thailand in a later tax year 1 January 2024
is not subject to Thai Tax.

 

https://www.rd.go.th/fileadmin/user_upload/lorkhor/newspr/2024/FOREIGNERS_PAY_TAX2024.pdf

 

[rocketboy2]

2 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

If a foreigner derives income from sources outside Thailand, such income is subject to income tax if the two following conditions are met:
such income has been earned in any tax year starting from 1 January
2024 onward by a foreigner who stays in Thailand for 180 days or more in a tax (calendar) year, and;
such income earned has been remitted to Thailand (wholly or partially), even if that remittance occurs in a later tax year

 

FOREIGN-SOURCED INCOME NOT SUBJECT TO THAI TAX
Foreign sourced income derived before 1st January 2024 and remitted into Thailand in a later tax year 1 January 2024
is not subject to Thai Tax.

 

https://www.rd.go.th/fileadmin/user_upload/lorkhor/newspr/2024/FOREIGNERS_PAY_TAX2024.pdf

 

 

Thanks for that. 

 

[KhunHeineken]

17 hours ago, Wyabcp said:

This is a good point, never thought of keeping the investment in home country (UK) for me, invested correctly would help a lot. Could you let me know which agent you used please?  and if possible cost ? thanks

Yes, I am getting over 5% on my 800k left back in Australia, but even at 5%, that 800,000 x 5% = 40,000 baht. 

 

Kasikorn Bank is paying 1.5% on a 12 month term deposit.  That 800,000 x 1.5% = 12,000 baht. 

 

Agents fees vary, but it's reasonably cheap when all you need is the 800k baht bank document, but I get them to throw in re-entry permit and 90 day reporting as well. 

 

Can you see why I laugh at people who say their extension ONLY costs them 1,900 baht?  What about all the lost interest on the donation to a Thai bank?    

 

Also, let's not forget, for any new retirees, that 800k transferred in may be taxed the following year also. 

 

They have to gather all the documents, go to immigration, wait in a queue etc, and they think they are saving money. 

 

I'm in Pattaya.  There are many visa agents in Pattaya.  The below link is not my visa agent, but one from the first page of a Google search. 

 

https://www.keyvisathailand.com

 

People argue the legality of it, yet, it's widely advertised and been going on for decades.  

[Badrabbit]

On 1/21/2025 at 8:23 AM, Badrabbit said:

My tax office said no so who the fuffing hell is right.

What a ridiculous country this is, no one seems to know what is going  on.

I'm doing nothing as I've been told by the Revenue office that I cant be taxed due to the DTA that's good enough for me.

I mentioned Immigration not the office, my extension is next October.

[Badrabbit]

3 hours ago, oldcpu said:

Thankyou for sharing your experience. 

 

I assume that your pension is a civil servant or military pension.

 

I suspect there are some on the forum who won't believe you.

 

I appreciate your sharing in spite of the disbelievers.

 

I have 3 pensions, UK government state pension, London Fire Brigade pension(local government via government) Tesco UK 

[Badrabbit]

3 hours ago, oldcpu said:

Thankyou for sharing your experience. 

 

I assume that your pension is a civil servant or military pension.

 

I suspect there are some on the forum who won't believe you.

 

I appreciate your sharing in spite of the disbelievers.

 

Could not give a to#× if people don't believe, up to them.

[KhunHeineken]

7 hours ago, lordgrinz said:

I am so glad I didn't make a single remittance in 2024, and will try hard not to do so in 2025 either. I figure by spring of next year (2026), this should have all been sorted, with more than enough anecdotal cases to study.

You could always remit a rather large amount in calendar year that you plan on leaving Thailand for 6 months, thus, not a resident for tax purposes. 

 

Such an amount might see you through the following tax year, and beyond.  

[The Cyclist]

3 minutes ago, Badrabbit said:

I have 3 pensions, UK government state pension, London Fire Brigade pension(local government via government) Tesco UK 

 

Badrabbit

 

Your State & Tesco Pensions are potentially taxable in Thailand. The State Pension is not a Government Pension.

 

Your Fire Brigade Pension is a Government Pension and only taxable in the UK.

[Wyabcp]

I've just read the whole of this thread... omg lol. However there were large chunks I ignored based on particularly salty entries from some...

I'm interested to see what the crowd of YouTubers have to say about this once they've filed their returns for 2024. My guess is that they'll keep quiet and keep under the radar, as I expect most will be impacted... shame really, as we'd get a better insight.

[KhunHeineken]

13 minutes ago, Badrabbit said:

I have 3 pensions, UK government state pension, London Fire Brigade pension(local government via government) Tesco UK 

I'm not British, nor am I overly familiar with the UK / Thailand DTA.

 

I believe this is the UK / Thai DTA. 

 

Article 19. 

 

Governmental Services

 

(1) (a) Remuneration, other than a pension, paid by a Contracting State or a political subdivision or a local authority thereof to any individual in respect of services of a governmental nature rendered to that State or subdivision or local authority thereof shall be taxable only in that State.

 

(b) However, such remuneration shall be taxable only in the other Contracting State if the services are rendered in that State and the recipient is a resident of that other Contracting State who:

 

(i) is a national of that State; or

 

(ii) did not become a resident of that State solely for the purpose of performing the services.

 

(2) (a) Any pension paid by the Contracting State or a political subdivision or a local authority thereof to any individual in respect of services of a governmental nature rendered to that State or subdivision or local authority thereof shall be taxable only in that State.

 

(b) However, such pension shall be taxable only in the other contracting State if the recipient is a national of and a resident of that State.

 

I can understand your Fire Brigade pension being covered by the DTA,  Australia's DTA with Thailand is similar.  It covers government service pensions, but the old age pension is not a government service pension.  

 

Where do your other two pension fit in with the UK / Thailand DTA?

[Badrabbit]

27 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

 

Badrabbit

 

Your State & Tesco Pensions are potentially taxable in Thailand. The State Pension is not a Government Pension.

 

Your Fire Brigade Pension is a Government Pension and only taxable in the UK.

No point in me worrying then, my State and Tesco pensions come to approx 25,000bht per month.

 

[JimGant]

3 hours ago, rocketboy2 said:

But does foreign rental income ever become savings in the eyes of the Thai revenue department.

That's the best question asked on this forum in ages. Say your rental income from 2024 rests in your bank account until 2030, when you, as a Thai tax resident, finally remit it to Thailand. How will it be treated? Bounce that off of the following:

Quote

such income has been earned in any tax year starting from 1 January 2024 onward by a foreigner who stays in Thailand for 180 days or more in a tax (calendar) year, and;
such income earned has been remitted to Thailand (wholly or partially), even if that remittance occurs in a later tax year

 

This says, yeah, when remitted to Thailand in 2030, it has to be declared as income. That's bonkers! How about remitted in 2045? At some point income transitions into savings. And I would suggest that point is when subject income has gone through your home country tax process, either to be taxed, to not be taxed, or to be determined as tax exempt. After which, it is no longer income. Would TRD buy that? Dunno.

 

Of course, the same logic could be applied to: 2024 rental income being declared when you file your home country taxes in 2025. Then, after it's gone through this home country tax process, it becomes savings. And, as such, if you then remit it to Thailand after doing your home country taxes, it is, as savings, no longer taxable by Thailand.

 

This might be a stretch, as far as TRD is concerned. But what exactly is the difference in this scenario between after tax rental income in home country bank account, after home country tax return accomplished in 2025 -- and same scenario, but now in 2045?

 

So, yeah -- big question -- when does income transform into savings? Hmmmm.

[The Cyclist]

2 minutes ago, Badrabbit said:

No point in me worrying then, my State and Tesco pensions come to approx 25,000bht per month.

 

 

In theory you should file, but will have nothing to pay on 25,000 Baht a month.

[Badrabbit]

8 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

 

In theory you should file, but will have nothing to pay on 25,000 Baht a month.

Maybe, I've been told I don't have to so I wont,

What will they do send me to prison for 30 years.

[The Cyclist]

1 minute ago, Badrabbit said:

Maybe, I've been told I don't have to so so I wont,

What will they do send me to prison for 30 years.

 

Fair enough, go with what your RD Office says.