Thai tax tangle: Expats warned of new rules on overseas income

[NoDisplayName]

3 hours ago, The Cyclist said:

Sure, just watch this

 

Again with the "tax expert" who claims that US social security is assessable?

 

You should go back to CRS fearmongering. 

Oh, wait, you just did!

 

26 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

As I said back in Nov / Dec 2023, these changes are coming about because Thailand joined CRS, and whilst " Its all Kosher Gov, honest " might apply to Thailands domestic tax rules, it does not apply to the rules of an International Treaty.

 

Wasn't that back when you claimed even Kenya had signed up to CRS, and mentioned Singapore as an example of how CRS will affect us?  (Don't make me look through all these posts, please!)

 

I recall I posted the Singapore tax authority's CRS explanation, along with a lovely downloadable brochure, detailing that CRS responsibilities for individuals consist solely of identifying themselves to a financial institution as subject to other tax jurisdictions when opening new accounts.  They even stated directly that non-assessable, non-taxable remittances are not to be declared on tax filings.

 

But permit me to repeat:  You.....haven't.....filed.

 

Why don't you actually put your claims into practice, video the process, take notes, teach us all how to:

 

-include all foreign remittances on a tax form

-declare non-taxable, exempt, income that is not assessable

-deduct income deemed non-assessable from the PIT calculation

-claim a tax credit paid to a foreign revenue service on the form

 

Make a lil' booklet for us to download.  Show us silly rabbits just how it's done!

 

Don't just spend your days Dunning-Krügering us all to death.

[NoDisplayName]

3 hours ago, anchadian said:

I have now decided to file a tax return even if my assessable pensions fall below the required threshold

 

Who know what the future may bring, more so especially with regard to visa extensions.

It's better to be safe than sorry.  

 

Not a bad plan.

 

I filed three years late returns, and this year's.  No assessable remittances to declare, so zero foreign income to claim, AND I got bank/dividend withholding refunded.

 

Now I have a four-year history of accepted and approved tax forms omitting non-assessable foreign remittances.

 

It's no real bother.  It's just another facet of expat life in Thailand.  Once a year, spend half a day at immigration getting an extension.  Three or four times a year, take five minutes to file an online 90-day report.  And now the first weekend in January, spend ten minutes to file my annual FBAR, then 20-30 minutes filing my Thai PN90.

 

When I start to collect that juicy social security, I'll have it deposited in a dedicated bank account, and Wise it to Thailand monthly.  That, in addition to my TEDA amount of remittances (all will be non-assessable, but worst case scenario, they are somehow considered taxable), I'll have more than I can ever spend here, and never have to pay Thai tax.

 

All is well, until Thailand moves to global taxation. 

 

Then it's time for Plan B.

[NoDisplayName]

21 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

 

The updated video from last week with the Professor and the Legal Eagle from the RD needs to be watched.

 

I posted it on here.

 

3 times Carl Turner asked about about this, especially the so called non assessable income like US SS, and 3 times it was given a stiff ignoring, by the Professor and the RD Legal guy.

 

Never directly answered once.

 

Ummmm...................yes, it was directly answered.

 

At 10:30 in the video, we were told we assess our remittances ourselves.

 

Around 17:30 your experts said expats potentially had to file, but that depended on their DTA's.

 

Then the money shot came at 28:00, where the actors clearly informed us that if remitted income was non-assessable, we don't need a TIN and we don't need to file, and that we file ONLY if assessable remitted income is over the 60/120 threshold.

 

 

[NoDisplayName]

23 minutes ago, oldcpu said:

 

And a MORE recent video has now since clarified that.

 

The video he referenced clarified that.

 

He just chose to ignore it.

[delphi]

If you have nothing to hide just get the tax number it is very easy it takes less than 5 minutes to apply although the form is only in thai at the moment. Espcially if you are american with only social security for income. I don't think we have a choice not to file. how long do you think it will be before a tax id will be part of the  long stay visa application?

[oldcpu]

5 minutes ago, delphi said:

If you have nothing to hide just get the tax number it is very easy it takes less than 5 minutes to apply although the form is only in thai at the moment. Espcially if you are american with only social security for income. I don't think we have a choice not to file. how long do you think it will be before a tax id will be part of the  long stay visa application?

 

Its not always that simple. 

 

My Thai wife applied for a Thai TIN for me online (it took about 15 minutes by time all documents were uploaded) ... application went to Bangkok main RD office.  They forwarded the application to the Phuket RD office.  An official of the Phuket RD office phoned my wife and myself (talking only in Thai language to my wife) and after a chat (more than 15 minutes) advised he would not give me a tax ID given my financial situation.

 

He advised I should not file a 2024 tax return form.

 

So it does not take less than 5 minutes for myself (it takes longer) - and I understand others also have had their TIN application rejected.  It really depends on each person's financial situation.

.

[NoDisplayName]

7 minutes ago, delphi said:

If you have nothing to hide just get the tax number it is very easy it takes less than 5 minutes to apply although the form is only in thai at the moment. Espcially if you are american with only social security for income. I don't think we have a choice not to file. how long do you think it will be before a tax id will be part of the  long stay visa application?

 

US social security is excluded by DTA.

It is not taxable, not assessable, not to be included in PIT calculations.

 

If that is your only income remitted, you do not need a TIN, you do not need to file.

 

Tax ID, or completed return, or tax clearance certificate required at immigration for extension purposes is all speculation at this point.

 

Possibly for extension some day, under some specific situations, but certainly not for visa application. 

[NoDisplayName]

4 hours ago, The Cyclist said:

Sure, just watch this

 

Just noticed..........this video is 5 months old.

 

Well, okay then!

[TheAppletons]

Never in my wildest imagination did I think watching someone with intellectual disabilities taking a beating could be so much fun.  

[ukrules]

2 hours ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

Just noticed..........this video is 5 months old.

 

Well, okay then!

 

Nothing changed during the last 5 months.

 

[The Cyclist]

3 hours ago, oldcpu said:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEpTYIjXCqE

 

Hollllleee Christ

 

This is the video posted above, that was posted on youtube a month ago.

 

Since then, about 5 Days ago, I posted another ExpatThai video that featured a tax Professor and a Legal Eagle from the Revenue Department.

 

A Day later I posted another video from Siam Legal.

 

I suggest you watch them in sequence.

 

But since I am here.

 

Did Thailand join CRS by Royal Decree on 31 March 2023 ?
 

How then does Thailand ensure that monies remitted into Thailand are both Tax Compliant ( and by extension, not from illegal activities ) and not engaged in Tax Evasion.

 

If Individuals have no need to report their remitted income, by filing a tax return, showing that it is tax Compliant, not from illegal activity or involved in Tax Evasion ? How does Thailand comply with its reporting under CRS .

 

Bearng in mind, That International Agreements, take precedence over Domestic Policy.

 

Cannot be done, unless Tax Residents file a tax return and show their paperwork / Evidence that the money is legal, Tax Compliant and is not subject to Thai Tax

[The Cyclist]

22 minutes ago, ukrules said:

 

Nothing changed during the last 5 months.

 

 

Apart from the desperation in clutching straws as to why someone should not file a tax return.

[The Cyclist]

3 hours ago, NoDisplayName said:

Again with the "tax expert" who claims that US social security is assessable?

 

Do I have to say this slowly, so that you understand it ?
 

I am not an expert, I don't claim to be an expert, but I did post this video from A Thai Citizen, who is a Tax Consultant.

 

 

 

And as far as I am aware, it it the most up to date video that has been posted.

 

If you have another Tax Consultant that contradicts the above Tax Consultant, feel free to post it.

 

As long as it is more up to date than 3 days ago.

[oldcpu]

28 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

 

Did Thailand join CRS by Royal Decree on 31 March 2023 ?

 

 

You already had your views on CRS over reach destroyed. Fabricating new falacious ideas with no grounds in CRS requirements won't change that fact of your views previous destruction.

[oldcpu]

7 hours ago, The Cyclist said:

 

.. , my day will be spent here, not worrying about tax filing.

 

 

So that which I quoted of your post is a joke, given you are still posting here and still failing to admit your mistakes re exempt income. Why bother post here if not worried?

 

You can't be here to help others as your views are wrong.

 

You still won't admit you posted wrong information when you stated that other than pre 1 Jan 2024 there is no foreign remitted exempt income. 

 

You still can't explain why there is no place on Thai tax forms for tax exempt foreign income to be deducted.

 

You till refuse to understand that tax exempt foreign income is not to be considered assessable income and hence not to be used in calculating whether a Thailand tax return is required. 

[traveller101]

21 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

 

Do I have to say this slowly, so that you understand it ?
 

I am not an expert, I don't claim to be an expert, but I did post this video from A Thai Citizen, who is a Tax Consultant.

 

 

 

And as far as I am aware, it it the most up to date video that has been posted.

 

If you have another Tax Consultant that contradicts the above Tax Consultant, feel free to post it.

 

As long as it is more up to date than 3 days ago.

The above video lists the various cases which require you to obtain a TIN. It includes the transfer of Income abroad into Thailand.

 

The Siam Legal expert did not explain whether or not a TIN is required if the funds transferred are NOT Income, but for example are taken out from a savings account.

 

It seems to me, that the Revenue Department automatically regards funds transferred from abroad as Income. 

Correct me if I'm wrong - the actual Tax Declaration Forms seem to be void of a field where you could put corresponding data in (indicating amount as NOT income).

[The Cyclist]

15 minutes ago, oldcpu said:

You till refuse to understand that tax exempt foreign income is not to be considered assessable income and hence not to be used in calculating whether a Thailand tax return is required. 

 

Why should I, when this Thai Tax Consultant says otherwise

 

US SS ( US has exclusive taxing rights ) It is assessable income, if you are a Tax Resident, and you remit it in the year that it is earned.

 

We all know what we should do with assessable income, don't we boys and girls.

 

However it is not taxable due to the DTA and the US having exclusive taxing rights.

 

Extrapolate that across every type of Income where the source Country has exclusive taxing rights.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mNdXpvY1GQ

 

 

If you have an issue with what the Thai Tax Consultant is saying, you best take it up with the appropriate authorities.

 

And just so that you aware, the strawclutchers who are terrified of tax filing, have not debunked anything I have said.

[The Cyclist]

And yet again the howls of " but what about the tax forms not having X, Y or Z "

 

I'm fairly certain that the RD said amended or updated paperwork would be making an appearance at some stage.

[The Cyclist]

7 minutes ago, traveller101 said:

The Siam Legal expert did not explain whether or not a TIN is required if the funds transferred are NOT Income, but for example are taken out from a savings account.

 

He explained why it was assessable income. If you have assessable income, you require a TIN, and you should file.

 

That does not mean that the assessable income will be taxed.

 

Again, if you are unhappy with explanation given, best phone him, tell him he is wrong and that you are going to report him to the relevant authorities.

[The Cyclist]

Nice rant by Benjamin Hart

 

 

 

Has he caught wind of Tax Clearance Certificates making a comeback ?
 

Posed as a question, for the people that think I am dishing out tax advice.

[Yumthai]

1 hour ago, The Cyclist said:

How then does Thailand ensure that monies remitted into Thailand are both Tax Compliant ( and by extension, not from illegal activities ) and not engaged in Tax Evasion.

Who's gonna check how Thailand, within its borders, complies and the data accuracy/exhaustivity they'll provide?

[oldcpu]

37 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

And yet again the howls of " but what about the tax forms not having X, Y or Z "

 

I'm fairly certain that the RD said amended or updated paperwork would be making an appearance at some stage.

 

Royal Decree 18 came out over 1/2 century ago noting selected DTA income is tax exempt.  For over 1/2 century there has been no location to list such DTA exempt income as tax exempt in any Thai tax return ( why? ...  because it is not to be considered assessable income). 

 

Such a DTA tax  exemption in an exemption section is not in the Thai language 2024 Thai tax form. The English language forms typically do not deviate much from the Thai language. So the 2024 English language won't likely deviate much.

 

And you still believe the Engish language 2024 Thai tax form will save your opinion in a discussion you lost? 

 

Good luck there. 

[KhunHeineken]

41 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

Nice rant by Benjamin Hart

 

 

 

Has he caught wind of Tax Clearance Certificates making a comeback ?
 

Posed as a question, for the people that think I am dishing out tax advice.

Mmmm.  Interesting.

 

He must be sailing close to defamation. 

[NoDisplayName]

2 hours ago, The Cyclist said:

f you have another Tax Consultant that contradicts the above Tax Consultant, feel free to post it.

 

Sweetheart, 'twas YOU that posted the legal beagle video where the experts agreed US sociable security is non-assessable, and if that is the only remittance, then no TIN needed, no need to file.

[NoDisplayName]

1 hour ago, The Cyclist said:

this Thai Tax Consultant

 

Is this the one with the clickbait website masquerading as the Thai Embassy?

 

 

[NoDisplayName]

2 hours ago, The Cyclist said:

If Individuals have no need to report their remitted income, by filing a tax return, showing that it is tax Compliant, not from illegal activity or involved in Tax Evasion ? How does Thailand comply with its reporting under CRS .

 

Bearng in mind, That International Agreements, take precedence over Domestic Policy.

 

Do you remember this from page 20?

On 1/18/2025 at 9:43 AM, The Cyclist said:

If they do remit foreign income into Singapore, some of it is taxable and some of it is not. I think you would have to declare it, to be on the safe side of what is taxable and what is not taxable.

 

 

 

So just how does squeaky-clean Singapore comply with (geeze, not this again!) CRS?

 

Generally, you do not need to pay tax or report overseas income received in Singapore, including income deposited into a Singapore bank account. However, you would need to pay tax on overseas income for the scenarios below.

 

Overseas income that you pay tax on

1. You receive it through partnerships based in Singapore.

2. Your overseas employment is related to your Singapore employment (e.g. you need to travel abroad as part of your job).

 

https://www.iras.gov.sg/taxes/individual-income-tax/basics-of-individual-income-tax/what-is-taxable-what-is-not/income-received-from-overseas

 

How dues CRS (and FATCAT) affect individuals?

 

"your financial institution will ask you for information on your jurisdiction of residence for tax purposes,".

 

https://www.iras.gov.sg/taxes/international-tax/common-reporting-standard-(crs)/basic-information-for-account-holders-of-financial-institutions

 

I understand reading past the headlines is difficult, so try this official pictograph.

 

https://www.iras.gov.sg/media/docs/default-source/uploadedfiles/pdf/iras-crs-brochure-(1pg).pdf?

[anchadian]

A further video, approx 1 hour ago:

 

 

[The Cyclist]

14 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

Mmmm.  Interesting.

 

He must be sailing close to defamation. 

 

Even more interesting 

 

Are Officials from the Revenue Department lying 

 

 

 

About an hour old and simple to understand.

 

And I think that now backs up everything that I have previously said.

 

Think that now leaves us with the last strawman standing " Where do you put this on the Tax Forms "

[Antti]

23 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

 

Even more interesting 

 

Are Officials from the Revenue Department lying 

 

 

 

About an hour old and simple to understand.

 

And I think that now backs up everything that I have previously said.

 

Think that now leaves us with the last strawman standing " Where do you put this on the Tax Forms "

 

At around 29:23 the guy says that if assessable income reaches certain threshold you need to file. So this seems to confirm the fact that if you have no assessable income then no need to file.

[The Cyclist]

1 minute ago, Antti said:

 

At around 29:23 the guy says that if assessable income reaches certain threshold you need to file. So this seems to confirm the fact that if you have no assessable income then no need to file.

 

Sure

 

That threshold is 60 / 120 / 220k baht a year. The same amount for Thais and written in black and white in the revenue code.

 

So if you are a Tax Resident of Thailand, remit over those figures after 01 Jan 2024, you need to file a tax return.

 

Take your documentary evidence with you, to show how it is not taxable, or subject to a Tax Credit.