Thai tax tangle: Expats warned of new rules on overseas income

[oldcpu]

11 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

 

 

Yes, I would. The important date is written in 161 / 162 and that important date is 01 Jan 2024.

 

So to take your education a step further POR 161 says

 

 

Any foreign sourced in brought in from 01 Jan 2024 onwards would be subject to Thai personal Income Tax

 

Por 162 says

 

 

So savings prior to 01 Jan 2024 would not be subject to Thai personal income tax 

 

Everything else, earned from 01 Jan 2024, remitted in 2024, would be subject to Thai personal income tax.

 

And that is where your bank statements, DTA's, Tax Credits, fancy Visa's come into play

 

Yes ... but being subject to... does not mean assessable.  It means it is subject to consideration for assessability. You are reading things into these documents that are not there.

[oldcpu]

1 minute ago, SHA 2 BKK said:

 

That's not true and even says so in the video YOU posted yesterday - hell even the RD says if you buy and sell a watch in 2024 overseas and remit funds it's not taxable.   As Bob Hawke said - you can't legislate for "Stupid".

 

Wow. You really did misunderstand that video.

 

And again - you resort to insults.  You have lost the discussion.

[SHA 2 BKK]

2 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

 

And there we go, the where does it go on the tax form strawman makes an appearance.

 

Perhaps on the form that has not been updated / uploaded yet.

 

As I have said previously, I would not be surprised if PND 91 / 92 do not get updated and a whole new form covering overseas income, taxes paid, DTA's is forthcoming.

 

Something similar to a UK SA 106.

 

No it's logic - no strawman to be seen - pure and simple. 

 

There are about 70 days to go until lodgement needs to be completed for most and as you have just highlighted there is no update form and no new form to cover exempt remittance.  Your words - nothing, nadda, crickets.

 

No form currently exists and about 70 days to go.

 

Is that why you have not lodged yet?

[oldcpu]

13 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

 

Let me explain something to you

 

The past is gone. 01 Jan is ground zero day, when everything changed.

 

What was done in the past illustrates Thai RD policy.  And if nothing has changed in a certain area, then nothing has changed.

 

I wrote a lot of text to show you where nothing has changed in the aspect of DTAs being exempt income and hence not to be considered assessable. That has not changed in regards to the income remitted in the year of earning.

[SHA 2 BKK]

2 minutes ago, oldcpu said:

 

Wow. You really did misunderstand that video.

 

And again - you resort to insults.  You have lost the discussion.

 

Hey mate I'm agreeing with you - trust a Septic to have a go with friendly fire!   I think you mean The Cylclist - not this little Black Duck.

[The Cyclist]

21 minutes ago, SHA 2 BKK said:

But in the video you posted yesterday just after the 30 minute mark if my memory serves me correct the chap from the Revenue Department said if you have no assessable income (Carl Turner paraphrased that after) no need to get a TIN and no need lodge a return.

 

Rewatch it.

 

The answer given is still need to file and potentially taxable.

 

* A DTA will make not subject to Thai Tax

 

* Using the Tax Credit system, no tax, or very little tax will be payable.

 

Makes you wonder why they are saying need to file, when they are potentially going to gain very little to nothing in tax revenue.

 

Perhaps, it really is, very little to do with monies raised ( or not ) through tax.

[NoDisplayName]

19 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

The past is gone. 01 Jan is ground zero day, when everything changed.

 

The only thing that changed is that hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions, of Thai citizens and foreign tax-residents have filed their 2024 tax returns omitting declaration of NON-assessable remittances.

 

How 'bout you, hmm?

 

 

[The Cyclist]

6 minutes ago, oldcpu said:

What was done in the past illustrates Thai RD policy.  And if nothing has changed in a certain area, then nothing has changed.

 

Keep believing that nothing has changed

 

POR 161 / 162 are figments of the imagination.

 

The head of the RD Legal Department is talking out his ****

 

It's all a massive wind up.

[The Cyclist]

2 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

The only thing that changed is that hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions, of Thai citizens and foreign tax-residents have filed their 2024 tax returns omitting declaration of NON-assessable remittances.

 

You work for the Revenue Department?

 

Or are you talking out the wrong orifice ?

[NoDisplayName]

16 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

And there we go, the where does it go on the tax form strawman makes an appearance.

 

Strawman?

 

[oldcpu]

7 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

 

Keep believing that nothing has changed

 

POR 161 / 162 are figments of the imagination.

 

The head of the RD Legal Department is talking out his ****

 

It's all a massive wind up.

 

Who is stating that?

 

Again - fabricating the views of others.  Another sign of a lost argument.

 

I type a long post detailing some of what changed and some of what didn't.

 

Again - I ask you. Are you just arguing for the sake of arguing?  Or are you interested in learning the actual situation re: taxation?

[oldcpu]

9 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

 

You work for the Revenue Department?

 

Or are you talking out the wrong orifice ?

 

Keep that up ... and I will ask moderators delete this entire thread (not that they will listen to me) but that is simply uncalled for.

[SHA 2 BKK]

8 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

 

Rewatch it.

 

The answer given is still need to file and potentially taxable.

 

* A DTA will make not subject to Thai Tax

 

* Using the Tax Credit system, no tax, or very little tax will be payable.

 

Makes you wonder why they are saying need to file, when they are potentially going to gain very little to nothing in tax revenue.

 

Perhaps, it really is, very little to do with monies raised ( or not ) through tax.

Ok matey.  I’ve had a gander at another of Carl Turner’s videos.   In it he had a specific case study (Pension Case Study 2) of someone who remits (Non-Assessable Income).  At the 25.20 minute marks he states clearly if your income is Non Assessable 

 

“Don’t need to add these to a Thai tax return. No TIN needed if only source “if” income”.   
 

I’ve attached a screenshot FYI.  
 

 

 

 

[The Cyclist]

8 minutes ago, SHA 2 BKK said:

Ok matey.  I’ve had a gander at another of Carl Turner’s videos.

 

Whats the date on that video.

 

Matey, Ive heard it all before, and just do that you are aware, I was previously informed that I did not have to file my Government Pension.

 

3 weeks ago I was told different by the RD Office.

 

The Head of the RD Legal Department also said differently, in a video posted yesterday.

 

POR 162 also says differently.

 

As does KPMG

 

As does Siam Legal.

 

And here is an Aus specific one for you

 

https://www.austchamthailand.com/new-rule-for-taxation-of-foreign-income-from-1-jan-2024/

[NoDisplayName]

17 minutes ago, oldcpu said:

 

Keep that up ... and I will ask moderators delete this entire thread (not that they will listen to me) but that is simply uncalled for.

 

Not necessary.

I'm shirley, not offended.

[SHA 2 BKK]

3 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

 

Whats the date on that video.

 

Matey, Ive heard it all before, and just do that you are aware, I was previously informed that I did not have to file my Government Pension.

 

3 weeks ago I was told different by the RD Office.

 

The Head of the RD Legal Department also said differently, in a video posted yesterday.

 

POR 162 also says differently.

 

As does KPMG

 

As does Siam Legal.

 

And here is an Aus specific one for you

 

https://www.austchamthailand.com/new-rule-for-taxation-of-foreign-income-from-1-jan-2024/

October 1 2024. 
 

 

[The Cyclist]

19 minutes ago, oldcpu said:

 

Keep that up ... and I will ask moderators delete this entire thread (not that they will listen to me) but that is simply uncalled for.

 

 Catch yourself on.

[NoDisplayName]

4 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

I was previously informed that I did not have to file my Government Pension.

 

3 weeks ago I was told different by the RD Office.

 

And tell us the results of your tax filing that includes non-assessable income in your PIT calculation, m'kay?

[The Cyclist]

3 minutes ago, SHA 2 BKK said:

October 1 2024. 
 

 

 

Yesterday 
 

Watch the 1st 10 minutes.

 

Tax Resident - Check

 

Earn and remit income in 2024 - Check

 

It is assessable income for tax purposes.

 

Head of the RD Legal Department.

[oldcpu]

7 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

 

3 weeks ago I was told different by the RD Office.

 

and they made a mistake.  There was no place on the official tax return form to claim your tax exempt income as being tax exempt.

 

If they filled in a form for you showing that, please post that here (again - if you already posted such previous).

 

 

7 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

The Head of the RD Legal Department also said differently, in a video posted yesterday.

 

No he did not.  In fact as i have already pointed out, and RD official stated in Thai (which the translator failed to translate) when considering assesable income , some income is exetmp.

 

 

7 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

POR 162 also says differently.

 

No it does not.  I already pointed this out.

 

7 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

As does KPMG

 

As does Siam Legal.

 

No they do not. They skirt around this very specific topic of some exempt income being not to be considered as assessable.

 

[oldcpu]

2 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

 

 Catch yourself on.

 

Say what?    I don't use that expression.

 

I will repeat - if you need to resort to insults (as seen in other posts) I will follow up on this.  I have no issues with seeing this entire thread containing what I see as your misinformation and scaremongering deleted.

[The Cyclist]

3 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

And tell us the results of your tax filing that includes non-assessable income in your PIT calculation, m'kay?

 

Why do you keep having to repeat this ?

 

I have already told you, I am awaiting updated tax Form. If it does not appear by the 28 Feb, I will go at the start of March, with all my paperwork, my trusty interuptor, and the Revenue Office can file for me, or tell me to go away.

 

Either way, I couldn't care less.

[SHA 2 BKK]

7 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

 

Whats the date on that video.

 

Matey, Ive heard it all before, and just do that you are aware, I was previously informed that I did not have to file my Government Pension.

 

3 weeks ago I was told different by the RD Office.

 

The Head of the RD Legal Department also said differently, in a video posted yesterday.

 

POR 162 also says differently.

 

As does KPMG

 

As does Siam Legal.

 

And here is an Aus specific one for you

 

https://www.austchamthailand.com/new-rule-for-taxation-of-foreign-income-from-1-jan-2024/

And since you suggest we have a look at the Austcham Site re this topic here is what they say:

 

“The instruction, dated 15 September 2023, states that a tax resident of Thailand who derives assessable income from an employment or business carried on abroad, or from a property situated abroad shall, upon bringing such assessable income into Thailand, pay tax on such income.”

 

Note the word “assessable”.  Your UK Pension which you claim is not subject to taxation via the UK Thai DTA means logically it’s not assessable.  And as you’ve said previously there is currently NO Thai Tax form capable of recognizing this remittance.  

But as you keep saying in the next 70 or so days perhaps we will be ordained by one of these forms from the powers that be.  

[The Cyclist]

5 minutes ago, oldcpu said:

and they made a mistake.

 

Sure, just like the Head of the RD Legal Department was also mistaken in the video yesterday.

 

I Must listen to @oldcpu and ignore people who actually work for the Revenue Department.

[The Cyclist]

1 minute ago, SHA 2 BKK said:

Note the word “assessable”.  Your UK Pension which you claim is not subject to taxation via the UK Thai DTA means logically it’s not assessable.  And as you’ve said previously there is currently NO Thai Tax form capable of recognizing this remittance.  

 

Income earned and remitted in 2024 is assessable income.

 

Argue your point with the Head of the RD Legal Department.

 

I would say " Not taxable " due to DTA, just like some pensions are taxable but subject to tax credits.

[oldcpu]

3 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

 

Sure, just like the Head of the RD Legal Department was also mistaken in the video yesterday.

 

I Must listen to @oldcpu and ignore people who actually work for the Revenue Department.

 

Actually you should listen to the RD department, where , as i have stated multiple times, as recorded in the video that YOU linked to, stated that when evaluating assessable income, that some income is exempt.

 

But you chose not to listen the the RD official.  Why do you chose not to listen to them?

[oldcpu]

1 hour ago, SHA 2 BKK said:

 

Hey mate I'm agreeing with you - trust a Septic to have a go with friendly fire!   I think you mean The Cylclist - not this little Black Duck.

Yes you are right.

 

I'm bad.

[The Cyclist]

2 minutes ago, oldcpu said:

Actually you should listen to the RD department, where , as i have stated multiple times, as recorded in the video that YOU linked to, stated that when evaluating assessable income, that some income is exempt.

 

POR 161 / 162 appears to eliminate individuals evaluating what is assessable income

 

Quote

Residency and Taxation

Under these orders, individuals who reside in Thailand for 180 days or more in a tax year are considered residents and are liable for personal income tax on their foreign-sourced income brought into Thailand. This applies even if the income is brought into the country in a subsequent tax year. This clarification eliminates any ambiguity about the timing of repatriation and ensures consistent tax treatment.

 

Quite clear ? Good.

 

What is assessable income ?
 

Quote

Thai taxpayers must file a Personal Income Tax return and make payments to the Revenue Department by the last day of March following the relevant fiscal year. Assessable income includes various types of earnings under Sections 40(1) to 40(8) of the Thai Revenue Code,

 

Thai taxpayer includes anyone who is a Thai Tax Resident.

 

It tells you, Assessable income is any income that falls into Section 40 ( 1 ) to 40 ( 8 ) of the Revenue Code.

 

Now we all know that not all income is taxable, which is why we have

 

Quote

Thailand has double taxation agreements (DTAs) with various countries, allowing taxpayers to credit the tax paid in the source country against their Thai tax liabilities. This provision helps prevent double taxation and encourages compliance by ensuring that foreign income isn’t taxed twice, once in the country of origin and once in Thailand.

 

But all these people are all wrong, and you are correct.

[oldcpu]

18 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

 

POR 161 / 162 appears to eliminate individuals evaluating what is assessable income
 

Quote

 

 Residency and Taxation

Under these orders, individuals who reside in Thailand for 180 days or more in a tax year are considered residents and are liable for personal income tax on their foreign-sourced income brought into Thailand. This applies even if the income is brought into the country in a subsequent tax year. This clarification eliminates any ambiguity about the timing of repatriation and ensures consistent tax treatment.

 

Quite clear ? Good.

 

POR 161.162 does no such thing. 

 

It does not eliminate individuals evaluating what is assessable income,  It does provide some guidance in a very specific area.    That is all .  OK?

 

 

18 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

 

What is assessable income ?
 

Quote

Thai taxpayers must file a Personal Income Tax return and make payments to the Revenue Department by the last day of March following the relevant fiscal year. Assessable income includes various types of earnings under Sections 40(1) to 40(8) of the Thai Revenue Code,

Thai taxpayer includes anyone who is a Thai Tax Resident.

 

It tells you, Assessable income is any income that falls into Section 40 ( 1 ) to 40 ( 8 ) of the Revenue Code.

 

Yes ... and further to that are Ministerial instructions (such as por.161.162) , Royal Decrees (18 and 743)  where RD-18 notes some foreign income is exempt taxation (where you even initially denied the words 'exempt' in the context of not taxable, until RD-18 was pointed out to you).

 

 

 

18 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

 

Now we all know that not all income is taxable, which is why we have

Quote

Thailand has double taxation agreements (DTAs) with various countries, allowing taxpayers to credit the tax paid in the source country against their Thai tax liabilities. This provision helps prevent double taxation and encourages compliance by ensuring that foreign income isn’t taxed twice, once in the country of origin and once in Thailand.

 

You are off on a tangent.  The discussion is whether exempt foreign income (per DTA & RD-18) is or is not included in assessable income.  I have proven it is 'not included' by past references to Thailand Revenue department practice and taxation forms , and you are throwing up non-sequitur videos and quotes.

 

 

18 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

But all these people are all wrong, and you are correct.

 

I don't disagree with anything they note.  I fully agree with those - but NOT with you.. 

 

Its you I disagree with as you are imagining them stating things which they do not, and you are ignoring clarifications/amplifications to what they note which is in RD-18 (as it calls up DTAs) and in Ministerial instructions.

.

[The Cyclist]

33 minutes ago, oldcpu said:

Its you I disagree with as you are imagining them stating things which they do not,

 

I'm making things up.

 

I am posting things that are black and white, not my words, so I cannot be making anything up.

 

What does the 1st part of this latest video say ?
 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGvznkNy398

 

Does it not say, if you are a tax resident, earn income in 2024 remit it into Thailand in 2024, it is assessable income ?
 

Am I hearing things ?
 

Am I making it up ?
 

For someone who supposedly on an LTR Visa, you appear to be rather vexxed, for something that should not really concern you.

 

Do you file a PND 95 for your fancy visa ? Why would you be arguing that others on a lesser visa have no need to file anything ?
 

Do you think that makes sense ?