Foreign Business Act Stopped

[nick2k]

man, some of you guys just don't get it. ..the writing is on the wall. their intent is to confiscate whatever they want. to take, take, take. they are showing their true colors. carrefour, lotus, dtac, ibm, ford, etc. they are all going to get taken over.

all the money that foreigners have spent here (not invested) for setting up shop, all the technology that was GIVEN to this country will be TAKEN. the morons who advocated building the factories here will get their just deserves when the stockholders learn of ALL the money lost from the takeovers.

smacks of what chavez is doing.

I dont agree with you !! They could not be that shortsighted

you may consider it shortsighted. but that is your opinion. my guess is the thais who are implementing the law do not.

many people have gone this route to confiscate foreign properties, malaysia did it, castro did it, chavez just did it, china did it back in 1949. do you think they are shortsighted?

when thailand does it, guess who will be left holding the bag? ..not me. maybe you.

you need to re-analyze the implications of the law being discussed to truly understand what it is doing.

when you controll more than 50%, you can sell it and take all the money. you don't have to give any of it to the partner who has 49%.

[percy2]

Some people may not be too unhappy with it.

543 User(s) are reading this topic (411 Guests and 2 Anonymous Users)

Cheers

[Arkady]

Foreign Business Act stopped

At face value, revision of the law stemmed from probes into Thaksin's business dealings, most notably his family's $1.9 billion sale of its controlling stake in the Shin Corp telecoms empire to Singapore.

However, it is also about Bangkok's old business elite -- many of whom supported the September coup against Thaksin -- getting payback for having to sell their family firms to foreigners after the 1997 Asian financial crisis, analysts say.

--Agencies 2007-08-09

This just about hits the nail on the head. The ostensible reason was the Kularb Kaew fiasco but the real reason was to right the wrongs perceived from the Asian crisis in which many Thais feel that too much was given away to foreigners. Somchai Sakulsurarat, one of the vocal proponents of the NLA's more stringent version was president of Bangkok Metropolitan Bank in those days. He managed to run the bank into the ground through imprudent lending policies, so that the Techapaibul family lost the bank and most of their other businesses. On the strength of this track record he later became CEO of Thai Military Bank. Guys like this still believe that the Democrat Party should have let the country tough it out with a collapsing currency rather than bring in the IMF which insisted on tougher bankruptcy laws and waivers of foreign ownership limits to let foreigners bail out distressed companies. But we should not forget that Thaksin also road this wave of anti-foreign sentiment and then sparked off this whole FBA mess through his sale of Shin Corp.

Going forward we can only hope that the situation is now so mired that the FBA amendments will get shelved by this government. It looks as if it would be a collosal job to revise the whole FBA to create something that the Ministry of Commerce can accept along with the NLA's revisions.

The most shameful thing is that while the government is motivated by vague nationalism and the NLA is motivated by vested interests, neither side gives a monkeys about the potential effects on the Thai economy and ordinary Thai people. Neither has bothered even to mention this aspect.

[happyinthailand]

It is obvious to me that it should be the duty of an elected government to decide if they want foreigners/foreign investment or not. This government has no such mandate and its only real duty should be to establish a constitution which will then enable the electorate to decide on whether they wish to shaft foreigners or not.

I find it interesting also that there seems to be an almost direct correalation between the wealth of Asian economies and their attitude towards foreign investment. Look at Hong Kong, Malaysia, Singapore and China (open to foreign investment) then look at Burma, Philippines, North Korea (relatively closed to foreign investment). Maybe a democratically elected government would see this and not choose relative poverty for their constituents.

An elected government can still choose a sufficiency economy without making foreign investment difficult.

[midas]

Vietnam must be thinking how much better this can get

Thailand you are a country of complete buffoons ….just like the Pratt (Army Guy) yesterday who said Thais can no longer be bought ???????? (Bangkok post)

Looks like the baht could up to 50 to the $ yet

same goes for Cambodia ? YES Cambodia has MANY problems

and disadvantages still BUT when the cards will be so stacked against

you as an investor ( a.k.a. as MUG ) as in LOS - these other countries

are starting to look like fairer game.

[Ned]

I just don't get all you people pinning your hopes for change on a future elected Thai govt. If the constitution goes through on the 19th and elections are held on schedule later in the year, the resulting parliament will be controlled by the Constitutional Court and the bureaucrats who in turn will be at the mercy of the junta who will be following orders from....well I won't say from whom.

The old business and feudal elite got rid of Thaksin alright and now want back what they lost in 1997.

Expats who plan to stay here longterm ought to be grateful that the country will remain economically stunted and cheap to live in.

[wintermute]

Expats who plan to stay here longterm ought to be grateful that the country will remain economically stunted and cheap to live in.

Precisely. Expats whose livelihoods don't depend on the Thai economy or business interests should jump for joy. It means that the price of things will remain low and the girlies will be aplenty for the foreseeable future. Thailand is just shooting itself in the foot with both barrels. An uncompetitive stagnant thai economy means that moneyed expats and those who derive wealth from overseas will have a great time here.

[midas]

but that is your opinion. my guess is the thais who are implementing the law do not.

many people have gone this route to confiscate foreign properties, malaysia did it, castro did it, chavez just did it, china did it back in 1949. do you think they are shortsighted?

when thailand does it, guess who will be left holding the bag? ..not me. maybe you.

you need to re-analyze the implications of the law being discussed to truly understand what it is doing.

when you controll more than 50%, you can sell it and take all the money. you don't have to give any of it to the partner who has 49%.

Actually I was just being cynical ! Fortunately I have nothing

to lose here even though I have lived here for four years.

I have plenty of capital to invest but I didn't even like the existing laws

never mind this new crap - I always felt uneasy about investing

my money in a country in which it has never felt

as if you would get a fair deal as a foreigner entrepreneur.

If this goes through - now you definitely wouldn't

[pointofview]

Didnt Thaksin promote NATIONALISM by naming his party "Thai Love Thai"

When would the elite ever care about the great unwashed: in Thailand there are no left or right or centre parties only populist. Nationalism seems pretty popular in thailand at the moment - ALAS

[Tilapia]

Vietnam must be thinking how much better this can get

Thailand you are a country of complete buffoons ….just like the Pratt (Army Guy) yesterday who said Thais can no longer be bought ???????? (Bangkok post)

Looks like the baht could up to 50 to the $ yet

50baht to th $ !!!!! I would say 60 to the $ this time, history is repeating itself, again !!!

Will they ever learn, and Thais can be bought I guess that I paid of a Cambodian cop this morning......who happens to be a little out of his district

[ChiangMaiAmerican]

My wife read an article in the Thai language newspaper The Manager which contained quotes from some of those pushing for the more restrictive FBA. Among those gems of wisdom, “No country on earth will let a foreigner come in and set up a business and take that country's nationality (citizenship).” Apparently he never studied the economies of other countries. Apparently he isn't aware that Thai nationals have immigrated to the US and other countries and opened businesses.

Thai nationals have also immigrated to many Western countries. Canada will even welcome foreign nationals nationals including Thais who have no job waiting for them if they score high enough on Canada's immigration point system. Canada's population is a little more than half the population of Thailand. Yet, unlike the xenophobes in Thailand, the Canadian government doesn't fear that these new immigrants will dilute Canada's sovereignty or diminish opportunity for native born Canadians.

The US has long allowed foreign nationals to immigrate and become US citizens. Thais are included in this immigrant population. In one part of the US, East Hollywood, California, the government has honored the business development by these Thai “foreigners” by officially renaming the business district they revitalized “Thai Town”. The government is also providing grants to help the community attract more business. That would never happen to foreigners in Thailand!

Thais are not the only immigrants who open businesses in the US. Citizens of every country on earth have come and continue to come to the US to open business. Most remain small but help the country when their owners employ Americans either directly or by purchasing goods and services from other firms owned by native born Americans. The businesses also pay taxes which support schools, the building and maintenance of roads, police and fire services to name a few. Some firms founded by immigrants grow into giant enterprises. Computer Associates, Google and Yahoo are some that readily come to mind. Charles Wang, an immigrant from Shanghai, China Was a co-founder of Computer Associates. Sergey Brin one of the co-founders of Google was born in Moscow, Russia and immigrated to the US with his parents. Jerry Yang (Chih-Yuan), one of the two founders of Yahoo and Yahoo's current CEO was born in Taipei, Taiwan and immigrated to the US with his widowed mother. Under the law being pushed by the enlightened members of the NLA, a business like Yahoo were it to develop in Thailand would be classified as foreign since the odds would be greatly against a foreign national like Jerry Yang becoming a Thai citizen or even being allowed to remain in Thailand during the business development phase.

All of the self made, foreign born, wealthy Americans mentioned have given back to the country that gave them their opportunity. They made gifts such as donations to Universities, Children's foundations and Civic centers. The two founders of Google of which Sergey Brin is one, have actually hired a someone to manage their ongoing and sizable charitable donations.

Foreign born business owners have contributed in a major way to America's economic growth through the years too. Igor Sikorsky, inventor of the first successful helicopters and founder of Sikorsky Aero Engineering Company now part of United Technologies was born in the Ukraine and immigrated to the US as a adult. Alexander Graham Bell, inventor of the telephone was born in Scotland and immigrated to the US. Werner Von Braun, who led the US in the development of the space program was born in Germany. At great risk to himself and the engineers who joined him, he fled through the battle lines in order to surrender to the Americans at the end of the second world war. He chose to remain in America and to take American citizenship. Albert Einstein, who needs no introduction immigrated to America and adopted that country as his home. Imagine trying to do that in Thailand. Edwards Teller known as the father of the atom bomb was born in Hungary. He too chose to make America his home. I could write a book on all the American Nobel laureates who immigrated to the US and adopted the country as their won.

Thailand's xenophobia is exactly what is holding Thailand back though the chief proponents would have you believe otherwise. Vietnam was recently recognized by the World Bank for its success in reducing poverty. In 1990 two thirds of Vietnam's citizens were living in poverty. Today the number has been reduced to less than one third which is far better than Thailand's track record. Instead of restricting foreign investment Vietnam embraced it by removing restrictions on foreign investment and management. Vietnam also provided educational opportunity for its poorest citizens that has enabled that country to make a quantum lead ahead of Thailand in high technology services. While Vietnam progresses, Thailand regresses. Will the powers that be in Thailand wake up and move to help the country develop? Thus far that appears doubtful.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breaking_news/b...s.php?id=120686

http://www.vietnamembassy-usa.org/news/sto...=20031119172848

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-th...=la-home-center

[Bruce1]

I seem to remember the Europeans piling up mountains of butter which they couldn't sell, so mountains of rice is about the same nonsense.

The strong baht is at least partly caused by falling investment, and by the restrictions on baht being invested overseas. Countries with open economic policies don't have such a problem because their currencies can flow out as well as in, to balance their economies. For instance, Australian has more money invested overseas than it has debt.

In Thailand's case, its the industries where foreigners are active which are doing well, particularly vehicle exports and some other exports, including tourism. The sectors doing badly are generally those closed to foreigners, such as the housing market. This suggests that the way to revive the economy is to have more foreign investment, not less.

This talk about Thais being in charge of their own country etc is just the same rubbish we used to hear in Australia before it opened up to the world. What do they think the foreigners are going to do, pick up a chunk of land and export it? Garbage.

The real problem is not foreign ownership, its corrupt Thai administrators allowing people to break the law. The foreigners come in and ask, "What are the rules we have to obey?" The Thais then break the rules to get rich personally at the expense of the country. Every time you see a scandal, ask yourself - who allowed this to happen? Answer - corrupt officials. But, of course, that's not a lesson the corrupt want to hear. Nobody likes pointing the finger at themselves. Its much easier to blame those nasty foreigners than to admit your own failures. I predict they'll soon cause a border scuffle, probably with Burma, to take attention away from their domestic incompetence. That's the usual trick for desperate governments.

[nod]

After having Thailand as my second home for 28 years and investing here heavily, I finally found a way of really scaring myself on this issue of land ownership etc. by coming across a translation of the Thai National Anthem. (which I have always loved and hummed along to). The second line, losely translated reads. "Every inch of Thailand belongs to the Thai people". Combine this with strong Nationalist feelings and you start to get a feel for some of the sentiments involved. I have watched my own country gradually become "owned by foreigners",and I finally decided to comfort myself with the thought that "own" it as they may, they can't put it in a suitcase and take it home! However to coin a phrase, TIT and the second line of the hugely loved Thai National anthem does nothing to comfort me, and I wish I had had the sense to get it translated years ago!

Cheers!

[theseveredhead]

any smart investor will still yank their money - the attitude, the writing on the wall, harbinger of things to come...

how stupid is this? we are not even talking about protecting a market? the thais are afraid someone is going to come in and build a plant -where thais would (not) and steal -what?? oppty for export that only benefits the country and creates jobs which the same competition is created by other nations internationally - like errr.... CHINA

lets not forget that mfg is zero sum - its built here or there (china). thailand long since lost out on hi tech, high mfg, enginering jobs... the country is ill educated to support it. they chose to be a nation of low services and tourism. looks like now they are shooting the last goose with the golden egg. honestly, i dont know why anyone would invest here when you have china.

bruce you are quite right: the real enemy of that thai people and nation is the institutionalized corruption. the top 25% benefit and the bottom 75% are its slaves. its that simple.

Edited August 9, 2007 by theseveredhead

[Hobox]

"I will not focus on GDP as the previous governments, but I will adhere to the sufficiency economy advocated by the King. I will focus on the happiness of the people rather than the GDP."

Most people would argue that there is a connection between GDP growth and happiness, especially for poor people. The poorer people are, the more utility from money. More money comes from economic development that can be proxied by GDP growth.

So we have to add another economic system.

Capitalism - Communism - Socialism - Fascism - Sanookism?

Edited August 9, 2007 by Hobox

[Galong]

I've got my butt covered. Almost all of my company's business comes from MY five websites. They are in MY name in the US... screw me and you might as well close the doors. That, coupled with the fact that I'm the only person in the company who knows how both marketing and operations work should make me irreplaceable.

If something stupid happens, I've always enjoyed Malaysia. But hopefully, I'm just airing my distrust and nothing really harmful will every happen. If it does, you won't see me jumping off of a high-rise.

[wintermute]

any smart investor will still yank their money - the attitude, the writing on the wall, harbinger of things to come...

how stupid is this? we are not even talking about protecting a market? the thais are afraid someone is going to come in and build a plant -where thais would (not) and steal -what?? oppty for export that only benefits the country and creates jobs which the same competition is created by other nations internationally - like errr.... CHINA

Yes, at this point any small or medium sized foreign business investor has to really consider the implications of these new laws. Big businesses are relatively well protected because they pay graft money to the policymakers thus ensuring special favors and exclusions from the very top. However, those down the chain will most likely get massively screwed if the FBA laws really do come into play.

Edited August 9, 2007 by wintermute

[theseveredhead]

dont be so quick to run to malaysia - its a pretty moderate country but its also pulling similar crap with the 'national religion' law and that hoopla around tat poor woman who married a hindu and converted.

[jumnien]

Looks like we've woken up the "henny, penny, the sky is falling" crowd. They weren't sleeping for long...

To me it looks like just another happy day in the Kingdom with the usual strange and bizarre attempts at daily journalism that are best not taken too seriously, too quickly.

[Gnarpjohan]

"I will not focus on GDP as the previous governments, but I will adhere to the sufficiency economy advocated by the King. I will focus on the happiness of the people rather than the GDP."

Most people would argue that there is a connection between GDP growth and happiness, especially for poor people. The poorer people are, the more utility from money. More money comes from economic development that can be proxied by GDP growth.

So we have to add another economic system.

Capitalism - Communism - Socialism - Fascism - Sanookism?

Not really, I think plain old utility theory from economics might capture the "happiness aspect". Some folks think utility is often too narrowly defined as a function of consumption and such, hence new inventions like the "happiness index". I suppose the economic system is not directly related to the problem of how to measure utility or happiness. But personally I believe that the largest aggregate utility and happiness is derived under an open capitalist system with some decent basic social security. Thailand seems to be moving towards something...else, not sure what it is.

[theseveredhead]

Looks like we've woken up the "henny, penny, the sky is falling" crowd. They weren't sleeping for long...

To me it looks like just another happy day in the Kingdom with the usual strange and bizarre attempts at daily journalism that are best not taken too seriously, too quickly.

how insane is that? i could swear i read in the bkk post (on the stand) the law actually passed (post already printed?). so it sounds like it was retracted. so if true - it was however fleeting, law. and as i stated - it certainly covers the sentiment of the ruling class oligarchs and mafia.

[Prakanong]

If it was not so daft it would be hilarious ;-)

As someone said - Vietnam and others must be jumping with joy - they were already taking investment but now Thailand manages again to shoot itself in the foot.

Yes its pulled for now but do you really think the investment decisions are going to wait till this tinpot little country makes its mind up?

Funny as F$%^&

I see Samui was also specifically mentioned by advocates of the bill - they must have their eyes on all that nice land down their to ake back???

[theseveredhead]

many years ago - mayor of philippines (lim, chines of course) drove out all the bars out of the red zone in manila. the place went raidly into decay. he and his buddies bought it all up.

you can bet that there are some very wealthy thais waiting to swoop on assets. visa laws to drive foreigners from housing, this law to drive us from business opptys.

its all been done b4

nothing to see folks, MOVE ALONG....

Edited August 9, 2007 by theseveredhead

[Canadianvisitor]

Maybe they just don't want Wallmart and McDonalds taking over Thailand.

Did you ever think of that?

[Prakanong]

Maybe they just don't want Wallmart and McDonalds taking over Thailand.

Did you ever think of that?

Is Walmart here?

Is MickeyD Thailand not owned by a Thai?

While they are at it why not reject western healthcare and the like too?

I am sure they will all give up their foreign cars too like the honda's and Benz - oh so subsitence?

[Odysseus221]

Why don't they pretend they are intelligent and make laws that benefit their social contract with the nation instead of drag in into the 19th century? They really don't like the idea of an economy in Thailand do they? Their laws seemed to be backwards--although they are a delightful people.

[pavina]

Why don't they pretend they are intelligent and make laws that benefit their social contract with the nation instead of drag in into the 19th century? They really don't like the idea of an economy in Thailand do they? Their laws seemed to be backwards--although they are a delightful people.

[midas]

Looks like we've woken up the "henny, penny, the sky is falling" crowd. They weren't sleeping for long...

To me it looks like just another happy day in the Kingdom with the usual strange and bizarre attempts at daily journalism that are best not taken too seriously, too quickly.

You have got to love mdeland - when they have squeezed all the enthusiasm from

the last investor in LOS mdeland will still be here putting a positive spin

on things - and still shopping for orchids no doubt

[mouse]

I've got my butt covered. Almost all of my company's business comes from MY five websites. They are in MY name in the US... screw me and you might as well close the doors. That, coupled with the fact that I'm the only person in the company who knows how both marketing and operations work should make me irreplaceable.

If something stupid happens, I've always enjoyed Malaysia. But hopefully, I'm just airing my distrust and nothing really harmful will every happen. If it does, you won't see me jumping off of a high-rise.

I too am in a position to relocate and be up and running again within 72 hours should it come to that, but, I hope it does not. My employees are good people that can however be replaced worldwide. My products are not made in Thailand but merely designed here, the product is not sold in Thailand, we do not have any Thai customers, nor do the profits enter into Thailand, unless I deem it so. But, I do pay sunstantial taxes (by Thai standards), based on the fact that I live here and they are a pittance of what I was used to in Italy.

[MarcHolt]

This is clearly evidence that people ARE getting stupider!

Fancy being more concerned about protecting the power of a business elite than in the good of your country. I mean, this place already has pretty much the lowest growth rate in Asia, and they want to discourage foreign investors? How stupid is that.

Bring on the elections ASAP. Meanwhile, the govt. should do nothing on this issue.

Actually, the government should remember that it is a "Caretaker" government and stop trying to do things it is not qualified for. All we have seen since they came to power is one stupid blunder after the other. It would be funny if it weren't so pathetic.

When will these army people realize they are only qualified for guard duty...not for running a country? Sheesh!

This issue is far from settled, but while it is now in limbo we have some breathing space. But if the new government (if we ever get one!) revives this crazy legislation Thailand will continue to slide to the bottom of the heap. What a shame. Before the coup the economy was in good shape. It didn't take the men in green long to destroy that, did it?