Foreign Business Act Stopped

[JR Texas]

There is good reason for that second line in the National Anthem, and for Thailand having a tough FBA.

I recommend the reading of "National Identity and its defenders" (ISBN 974 7551 88 8) for details. But, in essence, Siam could not forge a national identity easily, at the time that nation states came into vogue. There were lots of Tai-speaking people beyond what were to be the rather-arbitrary borders ofSiam.

And Tai people everywhere are wedded to being stay-at-home growers of rice on lowlands. They don't have the commercial aggression that is typical of those who venture forth from China, or the territorial and material aggression of those who ventured, or were despatched, from Britain, Portugal, Holland, and France.

The rulers of Siam, and then Thailand, had a duty, as part of their duty to provide security to those Tai subjects, to guard against the infiltrations from abroad.

To organise their commerce, they had to hire in some Chinese and, later, try to assimilate them. But Thaksin Shinawatra's actions in gathering to himself a part of the country's infrastructure and then trying to flog it to the (mainly Chinese) Singaporeans can be seen as evidence that the assimilation was not successful, and as an example of "Servants become Masters, given half a chance".

In view of the the fact that food supplies are getting more difficult, China is getting more urban mouths to feed and less farmers to grow food, and India is following suit, I would expect the Thailand government to toughen its FBA.

The way that China is using its new, huge, sovereign wealth to take over big food-growing areas of South America (that lacked that 'second line in the anthem' and a tough FBA) will not have been lost on the Thai bureaucratic polity.

Turn out the lights.......the party is over. :D

[LaoPo]

There is good reason for that second line in the National Anthem, and for Thailand having a tough FBA.

I recommend the reading of "National Identity and its defenders" (ISBN 974 7551 88 8) for details. But, in essence, Siam could not forge a national identity easily, at the time that nation states came into vogue. There were lots of Tai-speaking people beyond what were to be the rather-arbitrary borders ofSiam.

And Tai people everywhere are wedded to being stay-at-home growers of rice on lowlands. They don't have the commercial aggression that is typical of those who venture forth from China, or the territorial and material aggression of those who ventured, or were despatched, from Britain, Portugal, Holland, and France.

The rulers of Siam, and then Thailand, had a duty, as part of their duty to provide security to those Tai subjects, to guard against the infiltrations from abroad.

To organise their commerce, they had to hire in some Chinese and, later, try to assimilate them. But Thaksin Shinawatra's actions in gathering to himself a part of the country's infrastructure and then trying to flog it to the (mainly Chinese) Singaporeans can be seen as evidence that the assimilation was not successful, and as an example of "Servants become Masters, given half a chance".

In view of the the fact that food supplies are getting more difficult, China is getting more urban mouths to feed and less farmers to grow food, and India is following suit, I would expect the Thailand government to toughen its FBA.

The way that China is using its new, huge, sovereign wealth to take over big food-growing areas of South America (that lacked that 'second line in the anthem' and a tough FBA) will not have been lost on the Thai bureaucratic polity.

Turn out the lights.......the party is over. :D

..and close the Thai doors, for everybody, non-Thai...

Who's doing the countdown, waiting for Thailand to collapse ?

YOU Martin ?

LaoPo

[nick2k]

There is good reason for that second line in the National Anthem, and for Thailand having a tough FBA.

I recommend the reading of "National Identity and its defenders" (ISBN 974 7551 88 8) for details. But, in essence, Siam could not forge a national identity easily, at the time that nation states came into vogue. There were lots of Tai-speaking people beyond what were to be the rather-arbitrary borders ofSiam.

And Tai people everywhere are wedded to being stay-at-home growers of rice on lowlands. They don't have the commercial aggression that is typical of those who venture forth from China, or the territorial and material aggression of those who ventured, or were despatched, from Britain, Portugal, Holland, and France.

The rulers of Siam, and then Thailand, had a duty, as part of their duty to provide security to those Tai subjects, to guard against the infiltrations from abroad.

To organise their commerce, they had to hire in some Chinese and, later, try to assimilate them. But Thaksin Shinawatra's actions in gathering to himself a part of the country's infrastructure and then trying to flog it to the (mainly Chinese) Singaporeans can be seen as evidence that the assimilation was not successful, and as an example of "Servants become Masters, given half a chance".

In view of the the fact that food supplies are getting more difficult, China is getting more urban mouths to feed and less farmers to grow food, and India is following suit, I would expect the Thailand government to toughen its FBA.

The way that China is using its new, huge, sovereign wealth to take over big food-growing areas of South America (that lacked that 'second line in the anthem' and a tough FBA) will not have been lost on the Thai bureaucratic polity.

Turn out the lights.......the party is over. :D

..and close the Thai doors, for everybody, non-Thai...

Who's doing the countdown, waiting for Thailand to collapse ?

YOU Martin ?

LaoPo

I do not know why you think thailand would collapse if they confiscate all foreign properties?

the fact is - they won't.

do you think the thais who are pushing to confiscate all foreign properties think their country will collapse? of course not.

they are greedily rubbing their hands laughingly waiting for the day when they can "take" your properties. it'll be like

christmas day for them.

do you think chavez was worried about his country collapsing when he took over the oil wells? how about china in 1949? or cuba when castro took over? look at malaysia. look how well they are doing after confiscating all foreign properties way back when. people have already forgotten what happened. and they look at mathidir as some kind of hero who brought malaysia

into wealth. like he didn't "steal" it. people have such short memories, it is pitiful. malaysia even has this new "second home" scam going on. and many foreigners are eating it up. short memories.

what goes around comes around.

when america finally does it by changing their currency and in by doing so erase ALL debt like so many countless other countries have done in the last century including china, do you think they will be worried about what other countries will think?

china did it 3 times in the last century. and look at them now. people look up to them so much, you wonder what could be

going through their minds.

my grandfather was a wealthy man in china back in the early part of the last century. and the communist confiscated everything he had back in 1949. do you think they give a sh#t if I said they should pay my family back for the all the

properties that they STOLE from my family back then? fat chance. my guess is they would just say - he deserved having all his properties taken, he was a capitalist.

ironic and hypocritical wouldn't you say?

[Martin]

IMO there is no reason for Thailand to collapse, provided it plays its cards carefully (as it has, historically, a good record of doing).

Look at Thailand's employment figures: 60% in agriculture, 30% in manufacturing (for export and the home market), 10% in tourism.

The big changes of the present and foreseeable future are only going to reduce the last two of those figures.

And Thailand has climate and the land (that will grow crops without addition of ever-more-expensive inorganic fertiliser) to absorb the change and, over the next decade, to go to, say, 85% in agriculture, 12% in manufacture (for the home market) and 3% in tourism.

The one sure market that will be wanting exports is food. And Thailand's surplus over home consumption will be most valuable to earn gold abroad that will be exchangeable for those things that Thailand will need from abroad.

Now compare that with poor old Britain.

In twenty years time there will be nothing that Britain can provide, or offer to do, for overseas countries that some third country won't be offering to do cheaper.

So Britain will have to manage with only its dwindling output of North Sea oil and what it can grow for itself.

That will be a massive change. (I am one of the very small proportion left who can remember the nitty-gritty of how Britain managed to, more-or-less, feed itself in WWII, thanks to the populace poulling together in the "Dig For Victory" campaign.)

But I am quite optimistic that even that massive change will be managed by the Brits.

And even more optimistic that the Thais will have got a governance system that mitigates the tendency of some of the strong to be exploitive of the weak (in physique, character, or material wealth).

Admittedly, although the overall change for Thailand won't be all that massive, and some large areas stand to benefit, there will be some small areas (such as Phuket, Samui, and Rayong) and Greater Bangkok that will experience quite big changes. But even they won't collapse: just re-orientate.

[monty]

I do not know why you think thailand would collapse if they confiscate all foreign properties?

the fact is - they won't.

Very true!

However, I would not want to be too low on the social ladder in the Thai society!

Thailand as a whole will not collapse, but the majority of the lower middle class will find themselves to be farmers again, they won't be able to make payments on their little Honda City's. Not that there will be any Honda City's be assembled in Thailand when Honda pulls out after having lost control over their multi billion Baht investments. And GM. And Isuzu.

All the sub 8000 Baht salaried people working in the service/tourism sector suddenly will not have any cash to send home to take care of parents and children!

But for sure the Thai/Chinese elite will re-establish their coveted position comfortably high above the proletariat!

[Bruce1]

I was just looking at a class of my Thai students, lovely kids with huge potential, and thinking how sad it is that their potential is going to be stunted by this rich elite stealing their futures and leaving them with only low-quality jobs.

It doesn't matter if its old money (military-bureaucrats) or new money (Thaksin and cronies) that's doing the stealing, the result is the same.

Its no wonder so many of these kids dream of marrying farangs and getting out to somewhere where they have a chance to make a better life.

One thing is for sure, give this generation a chance and they'll be out of the villages quick smart and into the cities chasing middle class jobs. And why not? That's no different to what happens in any other country.

Having half your population working in agriculture is a recipe for national poverty. Sufficiency economy just means half the population gets a pittance for feeding the other half. My students joke about people herding buffalos and growing rice - they see education as a way out of that backwater.

I wouldn't trust anyone in the current government - they're either schemers or lackeys. As soon as a politician starts appealing to nationalistic patriotism, you know he's trying to trick you into agreeing to something which is good for him and bad for you.

Its very sad for the ordinary people of this country.

[Martin]

'Bruce1' said (and there's a lot of truth in it):

"One thing is for sure, give this generation a chance and they'll be out of the villages quick smart and into the cities chasing middle class jobs. And why not? That's no different to what happens in any other country.

Having half your population working in agriculture is a recipe for national poverty. Sufficiency economy just means half the population gets a pittance for feeding the other half. My students joke about people herding buffalos and growing rice - they see education as a way out of that backwater."

There have always been some attracted to those middle class jobs in the city. I remember, from my youth, the saying that: "Mid-Wales biggest product for export is young teachers".

And there will always be the need for the cities to exist, albeit smaller, to channel the import-export trading.

What will change, though, is that there will be far less manufacture. Manufacture requires raw materials, particularly ores and fuels, that are getting increasingly hard to come by. As far as the exosomatics (things that come from the body of the earth) are concerned, those that were easily available have been consumed. Much remains, but it is all getting harder and harder to get.

Of course, those students joke about buffalos and rice. That has always been part of the one-upmanship game played between those who preferred the urban to the rural. Its counterpart was the pitying by those who were eating home-grown produce of those who only had "shop-bought" food.

But I wouldn't call having adequate water, food, shelter and time to have fun, a "pittance".

We can expect the villages of the future to be better than the villages of the past, since nothing is going to be uninvented.

Villagers, including a bigger middle-class section within them, will have still have their radio, tv, internet, mobile phones and little motorbikes, as well as all that was described by Prince Damrong in 1906. He wrote:

"Since entering monthon Udon, I have visited many villages along the way. Some places have large villages established for a long time over many generations. I went down to ask about the social customs of these villagers. From the villagers’ replies, I found one surprising fact. Each village household has a house with enough space for living and a granary to store enough rice for one year. In the yard of the house they plant chili, eggplant, galangal, and lemongrass for making curry. Outside the house they have a garden for fruits such as banana, sugarcane, betel and coconut. And between the garden and the paddy field, there is a place to plant mulberry for raising silkworms. Each household has enough paddy fields and cattle to grow enough rice for the whole household. In the rice-growing season, everyone helps—man and woman, child and adult. After the season, men travel to find things to sell. Women stay at home, raise silk and weave cloth. Leftover food is used to raise chicken and pigs for sale. Villagers around here make all their own food and scarcely have to buy a single thing. The things they have to buy are metal articles like hoes, spades and knives; and crockery. Sometimes they buy yarn for weaving, or cloth and other attractive things brought by traders. They have just enough cash for these purchases because their cattle have surplus young, and they raise extra pigs and chickens with surplus food from each meal. These animals can be sold for cash to buy what they want.

Each family is independent. Nobody is slave and nobody master.

Family members are under the guardianship of the head of their family, and in addition there is a phuyaiban (village headman) and kamnan (sub-district head) to oversee. They administer themselves easily. But in the whole tambon (sub-district) it is impossible to find one rich man with 200 baht or more stored away. Yet you cannot find a single person who is poor to the point of being another’s servant. They must have been like this for a hundred years. Because the villagers can farm to feed themselves without resorting to cash, the feeling that they need cash is not strong. Money does not have the same power as in the city which is called “civilized”. So nobody accumulates but you cannot call them poor because they feed themselves happily and contentedly."

That quotation is taken from:

Chattip Nartsupha “The Thai Village Economy In The Past” ( Translation (with added Afterword) by Chris Baker and Pasuk Phongphaichit of original {in Thai, 1984}). Silkworm Books, Chiang Mai 1999.

In all the above, about Thailand's cities, as well as its villages, in the future, there is nothing that makes it advantageous to have a lax FBA, and much that indicates the sense in having a tough one.

[thaigene2]

These xenophobic sentiments cut across all political divides. This law was only pulled at the last minute because so many of the NLA wanted MORE restrictions. Any future compromise with the junta is likely to add these! The vast majority of the voting population will not understand the implication of these measures, but will certainly be susceptible to the time honoured election tradition of "blame the foreigner". Because of this, I think it is very unlikely that any future election will change the direction on these matters. If things do not improve economically, anti-foreign policies may become even more prevalent. Certainly a time to look at company assets and be ready for changes!

As most have discovered by now the Thai public education system is extremely poor (a Thai from a good international school can easily get into even Chula or Thammasat at 16, so what does that tell you about the rest of it?). Even supposedly well educated Thais readily believe the jingoist bs spouted by the nationalists. They are taught in their lousy schools that foreign domination is incredibly evil and it is something that their system saved them from in the 19th and 20th centuries (but the Thammasat massacre of 1976 is missed out of the history textbooks and most younger Thais are genuinely shocked to learn what happened there). They also readily believe that allowing foreign ownership of land and businesses will definitely make them beggars in their own country. Ordinary Thais can't see that they already are as their country is now owned by ethnic Chinese who despise them and want to keep them down.

100%

Brainwashing is an art form here.

Rich

Absolutely. A friend of mine (who's half chinese and half Brit) said it's a case of the Chinese-Thais trying to close the door on everyone else - ironically including other Chinese - who isn't already here. Everything from the FBA to prorepty ownership to business partnerships, the lot. The oligarchic Chinses-Thai families have carved things up nicely among themselves (guangxi, etc) - you can bet they are behind this "Thai" nationalism, just like you can bet it was the same rich elites who sponsored the coup to stop Thaksin from messing up their little inter-elite deals with his international 'big business' approach (IMHO the corruption stuff - as true as itmay have been - was just a smokescreen to pounce when the opportunity arose).

They have really masterfully brainwashed the rest of Thailand into believing the threat is without rather than within..

I agree with others above that the Chinese-Thai oligarchs are so much in control now that I shudder to think what would happen if there is a global financial depression - who do you suppose would be blamed in Thailand if that happened?? Hmm? And the Thais would buy the story hook-line-and-sinker.

[Martin]

"...I agree with others above that the Chinese-Thai oligarchs are so much in control now..."

Agreed.

But the limitations to just how extensive and strong that 'control' are cannot be discussed here, as any discussion of limiting factors would soon bring the moderators down on us.

And, for once, I won't recommend any books that discuss such matters, as I don't admit to owning any.

However, there is one aspect of 'now' that can be discussed (though many can't).

And that is whether the majority of the scions of the present Chinese-Thai oligarchs want to be as 'controlling' as their parents have been.

Obviously, being just an Isaan rice-farmer (though, like most who are now greatgrandparents, my wife and I get the back-bending parts done for us), I am not sufficiently closely in touch with those parts of Thai society that would enable me to make any quantitative judgement.

However, when I did a stint of teaching in a Bangkok 'posh international school' (very 'posh', but minimally 'international', and not that much of a 'school'), I got the impression that quite a few of the next generation of those oligarchic families want to be more Thai and less Chinese than their parents would wish.

I also got the impression that some of the oligarchs who send their scions (particularly their daughters) off to secondary schools in the West do so, at least partly, to make them less likely to 'go native'. But secondary effects happen.

We live in interesting times.

[chinthee]

This is clearly evidence that people ARE getting stupider!

Fancy being more concerned about protecting the power of a business elite than in the good of your country. I mean, this place already has pretty much the lowest growth rate in Asia, and they want to discourage foreign investors? How stupid is that.

Bring on the elections ASAP. Meanwhile, the govt. should do nothing on this issue.

Actually, the government should remember that it is a "Caretaker" government and stop trying to do things it is not qualified for. All we have seen since they came to power is one stupid blunder after the other. It would be funny if it weren't so pathetic.

When will these army people realize they are only qualified for guard duty...not for running a country? Sheesh!

This issue is far from settled, but while it is now in limbo we have some breathing space. But if the new government (if we ever get one!) revives this crazy legislation Thailand will continue to slide to the bottom of the heap. What a shame. Before the coup the economy was in good shape. It didn't take the men in green long to destroy that, did it?

Yes, elected lawmakers are usually idiots enough in any country to barely get the business of legislating correctly. Even in the best of civilian times, Thailand has trouble getting it right, and this type of crazy legislation is always circling just under the surface. These guys should finish out their guard duty quietly before they continue to tarnish the reputation of Thailand as an investment destination.

[Bruce1]

Wy do I keep thinking, "Alice in Wonderland"?

[nick2k]

I do not know why you think thailand would collapse if they confiscate all foreign properties?

the fact is - they won't.

Very true!

However, I would not want to be too low on the social ladder in the Thai society!

Thailand as a whole will not collapse, but the majority of the lower middle class will find themselves to be farmers again, they won't be able to make payments on their little Honda City's. Not that there will be any Honda City's be assembled in Thailand when Honda pulls out after having lost control over their multi billion Baht investments. And GM. And Isuzu.

All the sub 8000 Baht salaried people working in the service/tourism sector suddenly will not have any cash to send home to take care of parents and children!

But for sure the Thai/Chinese elite will re-establish their coveted position comfortably high above the proletariat!

I have this feeling that china will come in to help thailand. and for some odd reason, thailand will accept. actually, it may not be "odd". if you know what I mean. whether it is the same old "communist" vs. "capitalist" theme, I don't know.

[wintermute]

I do not know why you think thailand would collapse if they confiscate all foreign properties?

the fact is - they won't.

Very true!

However, I would not want to be too low on the social ladder in the Thai society!

Thailand as a whole will not collapse, but the majority of the lower middle class will find themselves to be farmers again, they won't be able to make payments on their little Honda City's. Not that there will be any Honda City's be assembled in Thailand when Honda pulls out after having lost control over their multi billion Baht investments. And GM. And Isuzu.

All the sub 8000 Baht salaried people working in the service/tourism sector suddenly will not have any cash to send home to take care of parents and children!

But for sure the Thai/Chinese elite will re-establish their coveted position comfortably high above the proletariat!

I have this feeling that china will come in to help thailand. and for some odd reason, thailand will accept. actually, it may not be "odd". if you know what I mean. whether it is the same old "communist" vs. "capitalist" theme, I don't know.

If China did bail Thailand out in the event of a crisis then they will owe China big time after that. China is one country Thailand can't afford to screw over without serious future reprecussions.

[Martin]

China could take over Thailand (and Malaysia) very easily, if it comes to Resource Wars over fertile areas.

But, as yet, the Chinese have never shown themselves to be military aggressors in pursuit of what they want.

Thailand can but hope that that continues.

The FBA is Thailand's defence against commercial aggression, only.

[LaoPo]

Some interesting comments

About Thai -self- protectionism and nationalism:

If Thailand close the doors with the Foreign Business Act it will only hurt themselves in the long run and shoot in their own feet.

Other countries and investors don't like those protectionistic kind of Acts and it will, sooner or later, bounce back heavily on Thailand.

Protectionism and nationalism doesn't work (anymore).

We are living in a global world and if someone thinks that any given country could survive without the others...it's a dream, or better: a nightmare.

Maybe they could for a short while but the consequences for the people of that country would be devastating.

Some previous posters made comparisons with situations in the past century but we do NOT have the same situation anymore.

Just think of the communications we have nowadays.....the world didn't have those just some 3, 4 or 5 decades ago.

I guarantee you Gents that this new FBA will NOT work...for instance, do you think one of the largest investors in this country, Japan, would accept this stricter FBA....do you REALLY think that ?

Give me little break; we are talking many Billions US$'s here that they are investing. Do you really think they will sit down and let it happen that their money, hard work and profits would end up in the hands of the Thai ? (voting rights).

Martin's last sentence: "The FBA is Thailand's defence against commercial aggression, only." shows he doesn't understand the global rules of investment and doing business in foreign countries.

The -stricter- FBA does NOT and WILL NOT WORK.

Thailand is just a small 'province' with some 65 million people (of which the majority is very poor) in an Ocean -called the Far East- of more than 3 Billion people....and also very poor with the exception of Hong Kong and Singapore, but they're city-countries not real countries.

Regional countries are lining up to take over the role of Thailand....watch them!

With the -stricter- FBA, the Investors, in the end, would just walk away and take their money/investments to those countries. Investors are just interested to make profits and they invest with intelligence and ratio; they really don't care in WHICH country they do that as long as the Governments of those countries offer them the right incentives.

Coming to an end: and I said it before, it's a shame that the present Old Elite/CNS/Government and all the others think they can run the country with their protectionistic Laws.

It WILL bounce back on them, sooner or later!

LaoPo

[Maxi101]

I read and read and ask myself, is this for real?!?!

Where is Thaigoon for prep up my mood.

Are the pieces of the country blowing up already and I miss something.

Never believed that everything is rose here, but is it really so bad ?!

How depressing ......

[lost_in_space]

It seems to me that the FBA expresses a common "zero-sum" attitude in Thailand. If you make money, then I lose...and vice-versa.

There aren't enough folks who see a win/win situation in foreign investment.

I am oversimplifying, to be sure, but doesn't that seem a reasonable generalization?

[wintermute]

It seems to me that the FBA expresses a common "zero-sum" attitude in Thailand. If you make money, then I lose...and vice-versa.

There aren't enough folks who see a win/win situation in foreign investment.

I am oversimplifying, to be sure, but doesn't that seem a reasonable generalization?

That's a pretty accurate assessment. The people creating these policies aren't what you call the educated members of thai society. They are mostly military men, descendants from "elite" families, and business tycoons who have virtual monopolies. They use the nationalism thing as a convenient excuse to tighten their grip on thai society so they can continue to plunder at will. The biggest losers in all of this are really the poor majority and the very tiny middle class.

[LaoPo]

That's a pretty accurate assessment. The people creating these policies aren't what you call the educated members of thai society. They are mostly military men, descendants from "elite" families, and business tycoons who have virtual monopolies. They use the nationalism thing as a convenient excuse to tighten their grip on thai society so they can continue to plunder at will. The biggest losers in all of this are really the poor majority and the very tiny middle class.

Seconded, apart from the educational part.

I suppose quite a few of them are educated, whether in Thailand or the US/UK, but intelligent, educated people can also use their intelligence to protect their 'old roots', power and wealth...

But, indeed: the biggest losers are the poor, like always.

LaoPo

[wintermute]

That's a pretty accurate assessment. The people creating these policies aren't what you call the educated members of thai society. They are mostly military men, descendants from "elite" families, and business tycoons who have virtual monopolies. They use the nationalism thing as a convenient excuse to tighten their grip on thai society so they can continue to plunder at will. The biggest losers in all of this are really the poor majority and the very tiny middle class.

Seconded, apart from the educational part.

I suppose quite a few of them are educated, whether in Thailand or the US/UK, but intelligent, educated people can also use their intelligence to protect their 'old roots', power and wealth...

But, indeed: the biggest losers are the poor, like always.

LaoPo

You're correct. I should have used the term progressive because none of these guys are the least bit socially or economically progressive in their methodology or thinking. They are all about maintaining an entrenched status quo that the outside world is not privy to.

[thaigene2]

"...I agree with others above that the Chinese-Thai oligarchs are so much in control now..."

Agreed.

But the limitations to just how extensive and strong that 'control' are cannot be discussed here, as any discussion of limiting factors would soon bring the moderators down on us.

And, for once, I won't recommend any books that discuss such matters, as I don't admit to owning any.

However, there is one aspect of 'now' that can be discussed (though many can't).

And that is whether the majority of the scions of the present Chinese-Thai oligarchs want to be as 'controlling' as their parents have been.

Yes, you may be right about the 'younger' generations not being so caught up in guanxi but then again, I saw that growing up - 2nd generation Chinese - and at the end of the day when they DID grow up, the family powerplays still mattered when marrying. So maybe, or maybe not - don't know whether you're right.

We also know that some of the most powerful people in this country look down on their kids marrying 'farangs' (unless it's a Thai-Chin 'boy' of course, then they just shake their heads, assuming he's in for years of nusance -- maybe their right actually).

And as for other 'limiting factors' you mentioned, If I follow your thoughts, I don't think it's out of line to mention the issue of "power broker" published in Ji Ungaporn's book. That publication is not banned to best of my knowledge and is quite widely recognised as correct and actually complimentary. But I'll leave it there. Mods can decide.

[thaigene2]

I do not know why you think thailand would collapse if they confiscate all foreign properties?

the fact is - they won't.

Very true!

However, I would not want to be too low on the social ladder in the Thai society!

Thailand as a whole will not collapse, but the majority of the lower middle class will find themselves to be farmers again, they won't be able to make payments on their little Honda City's. Not that there will be any Honda City's be assembled in Thailand when Honda pulls out after having lost control over their multi billion Baht investments. And GM. And Isuzu.

All the sub 8000 Baht salaried people working in the service/tourism sector suddenly will not have any cash to send home to take care of parents and children!

But for sure the Thai/Chinese elite will re-establish their coveted position comfortably high above the proletariat!

Yes Monty, I wonder if there is anybody reading these forums who still believes this 'putsch' was about getting rid of a corrupt administration..(and for sure it was corrupt).

Does anybody here really NOT believe this was REALLY about (and still is - as the powerplay continues to unfold) about returning the establishment to their 'rightful' place as influence-peddlers and grubby little guanxi practitioners? And banishing any party/individual in the future from the silly notion that they can run a populist party if it will harm the establishment's financial/power influences?

Oh go on...tell me I'm wrong.

[Solosiam]

Should I be wearing my tinfoil hat when reading these posts?

[highdiver]

Should I be wearing my tinfoil hat when reading these posts?

[thaigene2]

Should I be wearing my tinfoil hat when reading these posts?

Sure if it keeps the sh+t off your ears..

[present]

They don't mind the economy nor the people. Important is to keep the absolute power,because in their opinion they are Thailand.The regime gets paranoide, nothing new but not good news

This is clearly evidence that people ARE getting stupider!

Fancy being more concerned about protecting the power of a business elite than in the good of your country. I mean, this place already has pretty much the lowest growth rate in Asia, and they want to discourage foreign investors? How stupid is that.

Bring on the elections ASAP. Meanwhile, the govt. should do nothing on this issue.

[Martin]

'LaoPo' said, in post #105:

"Martin's last sentence: "The FBA is Thailand's defence against commercial aggression, only." shows he doesn't understand the global rules of investment and doing business in foreign countries."

Actually, Martin thinks that he has a reasonable grasp of 'the global rules of investment'.

He doesn't, however, believe that it is appropriate to go along with them in Thailand's case.

They were formulated by those countries for whom they were advantageous, and to work to the disadvantage of other countries.

In fact, Martin thinks that a Thai who reads this thread might be forgiven for muttering something about rapists who whinge that their victims won't lie back and enjoy it.

Also, Martin doesn't think that those 'rules' have all that much mileage left in them.

He thinks that the historians of the future may well look back and mark the turning of the tide of economic globalization as having occurred in the very last years of the twentieth century.

(Though communications globalization does have quite a way to run still.)

Sooner or later, all countries will have to hack out an economic regime for themselves that is sustainable. Foreign control of any economic activity won't help Thailand with that.

As of this decade, Thailand will help itself forward by keeping, and even strengthening, its FBA as its bulwark of having those Western-industrial 'rules' imposed on it.

It came late to the industrialism party, but had an active forty years of it. Now it will serve itself best by being one of the earliest of the leavers.

How Thailand's success is carved up will be interesting to see. The point that there are powerful vested interests who will try to manipulate the situation to continue their previous privileged access to money and power is a true one, but belongs to a separate debate from the consideration of changes to the FBA.

[JR Texas]

Should I be wearing my tinfoil hat when reading these posts?

Yes..........tinfoil is a good idea. And while you are at it, sing this tune I just wrote (with the help of Bob Dylan):

BROKEN LOS

Broken glasses, broken bones

Broken hearts, made of stone

Broken bottles, broken beds

Broken heartaches, broken heads

No use jivin', no use jokin'

Five stars on the shoulder........LOS is broken

Broken statues, broken dreams

Broken contracts, broken schemes

Broken love, broken deals

Broken paradise, nothin's real

No use jivin' no use jokin'

Five stars on the shoulder.......LOS is broken

Ain't no use in standing around..........another farang hits the ground.....

Broken promises, gettin' xenophobic mean

Broken businesses, down the drain

Broken badges, corruption's cool

Broken temples, broken schools

No use jivin', no use jokin'

Five stars on the shoulder........LOS is broken

Broken bodies, broken bones

Broken families, broken homes

Broken courage, broken banks

Broken love.....mai pen ry, thanks

No use jivin', no use jokin'

The Land of Smiles ........is truly broken

Ain't n use in standing around..........another farang is leavin' town................

[baboon]

I was talking to some well educated, thoughtful students in Bangkok a few days ago. They are awre that what they see/experience for themselves is a far cry from what they are told but are too frightened to try and do something about it. I felt really sorry for them.

Sorry to go off topic here, but has anyone else noticed a sharp increase in looking over the shoulders and whispering when discussing political matters, or is it just me?

[chownah]

I had the idea today that this foreign business act thing is the gov't's latest move in their winner takes all poker match with the foreign exchange speculators. Also it is sort of like the "poison pill" strategy sometimes used by US corporations when trying to avoid a hostile takeover......if you try to take over our company we will automatically inact this policy change which will detroy our value as a takeover target.....so....its like the gov't saying to the foreign exchange speculators....keep this up and we'll destroy the economy which will hurt you alot more than it will hurt us because we have been on top here for generations and we will still be on top when the dust settles and where will you be?

What do you think?