US Social Security

[jas007]

12 hours ago, placeholder said:

So better to directly tax the poor? Or the middle class? Or maybe the corporation will just have to make do with less profit.

I guess they run around naked too so they don''t need clothing or footware. Or any kind of appliance to prepare their food.

Tariffs Hit Poor Americans Hardest

https://www.piie.com/blogs/trade-and-investment-policy-watch/2014/tariffs-hit-poor-americans-hardest

 No matter how you look at it, inflation hits poor people the hardest. The rich have first access to the money and are therefore in a better position to adjust.  Not so with the poor.  

 

Anyway, like it or not, Trump is now President.  He has a plan and we had all better hope it works. Otherwise, there will be no America. Just chaos. I'm not sure people realize just how fragile the system is. Nobody will receive pensions. Nobody will receive Social Security. And your "money" will be worthless. Why would anyone support such a scenario?  Only people intent on destroying America. 

[Presnock]

On 3/23/2025 at 8:29 AM, jas007 said:

Of course it's about the "value" of the dollar.  People aren't totally stupid.  But even you must admit, if you're honest, that the "value" of the dollar has decreased over time.  Nothing goes in a straight line, but that's the unmistakeable trend.  In recent memory, depending on how old people are, I'm sure there are people here who remember the America they grew up in.  The Post-WWII America and the great middle class that once was but that has now mostly disappeared, thanks to the politicians, the debt based banking system, and the Fed.  Before long, they'll own it all. That's the plan.  "You'll own nothing and you'll be happy."  Was that Klaus Schwab at the WEF? 

 

In the Post WWII US economy, A single man could graduate from high school, find a factory job in one day, and with the pay from that one job, buy a house in the suburbs, buy a car for the family, support a wife and a couple of kids, send those kids to college, and have money left over to save for retirement.  Try telling that to a kid today.  ""Work hard kid. Get a Job in a factory, save your money, and you too can live the American Dream." 

 

And yet there are problems with that scenario, no?  The factory jobs have largely disappeared. Saving money is a fools game because of inflation, and even if such a job could be found, it wouldn't pay enough to support a wife and a few kids, the kids could not afford to go to school, and, if they did get an education, they wouldn't be able to find a job when they graduated, and if they did find jobs, those jobs would pay peanuts.  

 

What happened to the value of the dollar? 

Folks continued to be educated to graduate from college, go to a manufacturing job or computer startups but manufacturing moved overseas and the computer wizzards created machines that did their job much better, faster and cheaper so those folks are now out too competing for any job.  House prices have skyrocketed while large cities have citizens packing up and moving to state tax free environments.  Ugly situation and re-manufacturing ala Japan will not work in the US either IMHO.

[Presnock]

1 minute ago, jas007 said:

 No matter how you look at it, inflation hits poor people the hardest. The rich have first access to the money and are therefore in a better position to adjust.  Not so with the poor.  

 

Anyway, like it or not, Trump is now President.  He has a plan and we had all better hope it works. Otherwise, there will be no America. Just chaos. I'm not sure people realize just how fragile the system is. Nobody will receive pensions. Nobody will receive Social Security. And your "money" will be worthless. Why would anyone support such a scenario?  Only people intent on destroying America. 

Maybe Trump if he is a puppet of Putin is doing exactly what they want?  I don't know but his language when talking about Putin and other autocrats seems to be enamored of that evil person.

[jas007]

5 minutes ago, Presnock said:

Yes hat is what the DTA says so the Thai's agree that if taxed already by US law then they don't have to pay in Thailand but my questions if you read it says if no taxes are taken out by the US, then could Thailand tax it.  I am not saying they will, as a matter of fact I sent a note for those in congress talking about cutting the tax on SS seniors or SS altogether.  I asked if those writing the bill have even read the DTA agreements or will they advise ambassadors that SS still whether taxed in the US or not cannot be taxed by a foreign government.

The tax treaty means exactly what it says.  I think you get mixed up by focusing on the "double taxation" idea.  

 

Bottom line: government pensions and Social Security are taxable in the country of origin, ONLY. 

[Presnock]

15 hours ago, bunnydrops said:

I don't see it being closed down, but I could see a change where you need to be in the US to receive it. It is not very "America First" to spend it in another country. Not many would stand up for us Americans who don't want to live there.

I could see that happening - sorta like the UK and their whatever the fund is called.  Unless you live in a particular country, you get no COLA and possibly the NHS will greatly alter how they do business.  We'll see...

[jas007]

2 minutes ago, Presnock said:

Maybe Trump if he is a puppet of Putin is doing exactly what they want?  I don't know but his language when talking about Putin and other autocrats seems to be enamored of that evil person.

I don't believe for a second that Trump is in any way a puppet of Putin. I do believe that Trump is a realist and knows the war has been won by Russia. And he sees no reason why another million young men need to be fed into the meat grinder. Ukraine has been all but ruined by the proxy war. Trump wants the killing to stop. There's no point to it. If that means agreeing to some of Putin's demands, that's the way it is. Wars have an end. This one ends sooner, rather than later, and the result is the same. 

[Presnock]

5 minutes ago, jas007 said:

The tax treaty means exactly what it says.  I think you get mixed up by focusing on the "double taxation" idea.  

 

Bottom line: government pensions and Social Security are taxable in the country of origin, ONLY. 

Just

 

5 minutes ago, jas007 said:

The tax treaty means exactly what it says.  I think you get mixed up by focusing on the "double taxation" idea.  

 

Bottom line: government pensions and Social Security are taxable in the country of origin, ONLY. 

I do hope that continues but with the current leadership ignoring legal means to do things,anything goes, the same with medicaide for VETs and in many cases are for a particular state.  If they go after medicaide then I wonder what the vets will do?

[Presnock]

1 minute ago, jas007 said:

I don't believe for a second that Trump is in any way a puppet of Putin. I do believe that Trump is a realist and knows the war has been won by Russia. And he sees no reason why another million young men need to be fed into the meat grinder. Ukraine has been all but ruined by the proxy war. Trump wants the killing to stop. There's no point to it. If that means agreeing to some of Putin's demands, that's the way it is. Wars have an end. This one ends sooner, rather than later, and the result is the same. 

just like this forum, we alll have an opinion, that is based on our own life experiences and ages.  I do not believe that Trump cares one iota for the US but only for himself.  This is my opinion and I basically have stated it many times, even long before this latest election of Trump.  You have you opinion, I respect that and we both will just have to sit back and see what happens.  Good luck to you.

[jas007]

4 minutes ago, Presnock said:

Just

 

I do hope that continues but with the current leadership ignoring legal means to do things,anything goes, the same with medicaide for VETs and in many cases are for a particular state.  If they go after medicaide then I wonder what the vets will do?

I'm pretty sure Medicaid can't be collected overseas by anyone.  Vets in need of care while overseas can apply for benefits administered by the VA. I forget what it's called, but they are covered if they qualify.  If they're in the states, then they can always collect Medicaid if they qualify.  Some states supplement the federal benefit amount. 

[lou norman]

A reading of the Heritage Foundation's Project 2025 suggests that the Right knows they can't eliminate Social Security. Instead, they seem to advocate for privatization. This raises the question: who do you trust? I've paid my contributions faithfully, and while it isn't a lot, what it provides helps keep the alligators at bay. I'm not sure I trust private-sector CEOs with their multimillion-dollar salaries to truly understand that.

[jas007]

6 minutes ago, Presnock said:

just like this forum, we alll have an opinion, that is based on our own life experiences and ages.  I do not believe that Trump cares one iota for the US but only for himself.  This is my opinion and I basically have stated it many times, even long before this latest election of Trump.  You have you opinion, I respect that and we both will just have to sit back and see what happens.  Good luck to you.

The problem is this: even if you're 100% correct, Trump is still the President.  And he's going to do something, like it or not.  But, the alternative is much much worse.   So it's a bad situation and we hope for the best outcome.

[Hawaiian]

1 hour ago, JAG said:

What is the essential difference between VAT which is levied on many (but not all) purchases throughout Europe including imported goods, and Sales Tax which is levied on purchases in the US, including imported goods?

VAT and sales taxes are levied on all goods, with few exceptions, on both domestic and imported.

[jas007]

4 minutes ago, lou norman said:

A reading of the Heritage Foundation's Project 2025 suggests that the Right knows they can't eliminate Social Security. Instead, they seem to advocate for privatization. This raises the question: who do you trust? I've paid my contributions faithfully, and while it isn't a lot, what it provides helps keep the alligators at bay. I'm not sure I trust private-sector CEOs with their multimillion-dollar salaries to truly understand that.

 I think the name of the game is inflation.  The currency will continue to be destroyed, so much so that there will be no need to "eliminate" Social Security.  You'll still get a check, and with that check you might be able to buy a cup of coffee.  It looks like they wand to eventually move to a Central Bank Digital Currency.  Of course, the powers that be will control the CBDC, which is not good if you value your freedom.  They'll be able to control how and where your money is spent.  They'll be able to track every penny.  

[lou norman]

7 minutes ago, jas007 said:

 I think the name of the game is inflation.  The currency will continue to be destroyed, so much so that there will be no need to "eliminate" Social Security.  You'll still get a check, and with that check you might be able to buy a cup of coffee.  It looks like they wand to eventually move to a Central Bank Digital Currency.  Of course, the powers that be will control the CBDC, which is not good if you value your freedom.  They'll be able to control how and where your money is spent.  They'll be able to track every penny.  

Im curious to know who you think the Powers That Be are?

[radiochaser]

On 3/22/2025 at 7:45 PM, Jingthing said:

Nobody is against that but the question is the storm trooper smash it all tactics of DOGE. 

Also why did you paste all that with NO LINK?

Very suspect "facts" if you don't bother to do that.

Took 10-15 seconds to get the link.  It has taken longer to respond and post the link.  

 

You too, can do this. 

 

https://www.whitehouse.gov/articles/2025/03/fact-check-president-trump-will-always-protect-social-security-medicare/

[Wydahoan]

Giving Social Security to expats is like foreign aid. Google says 700,000 expats on Social Security. 

[placeholder]

2 hours ago, JAG said:

What is the essential difference between VAT which is levied on many (but not all) purchases throughout Europe including imported goods, and Sales Tax which is levied on purchases in the US, including imported goods?

There isn't any. Both are sales taxes. Just executed differentlly.

[placeholder]

57 minutes ago, jas007 said:

 No matter how you look at it, inflation hits poor people the hardest. The rich have first access to the money and are therefore in a better position to adjust.  Not so with the poor.  

 

Anyway, like it or not, Trump is now President.  He has a plan and we had all better hope it works. Otherwise, there will be no America. Just chaos. I'm not sure people realize just how fragile the system is. Nobody will receive pensions. Nobody will receive Social Security. And your "money" will be worthless. Why would anyone support such a scenario?  Only people intent on destroying America. 

Trump has a plan? Is that why he keeps on changing it?

[jas007]

27 minutes ago, lou norman said:

Im curious to know who you think the Powers That Be are?

The US government, if you're an American and that's the kind of "money" you have.  So, you never know who has control, right?  And that's the problem, in a nutshell.  You no longer control your life. Someone else does.  

 

Look what Trudeau did in Canada. It's a bad idea to give anyone that kind of control. 

[Nid_Noi]

On 3/23/2025 at 7:09 AM, BritManToo said:

Good point,

In 1913 how much would a 2 week holiday trip to Thailand cost you?

Or how much for a new EV?

In 1913 you could not make a 2 week holiday trip to Thailand unless you lived in one of the neighbouring countries in S.E Asia.

You cannot compare the cost of living of an average household during the last 150 years (since the Industrial Revolution).

Wealth exploded during the Industrial Revolution. There were no corporate taxes, wage taxes, income taxes and very little municipal taxes (mostly tolls, fees and levies).

For example West European countries were booming and the infrastructure in roads, railways and canals made it possible to take the train from London to Istanbul or Moscow.

After the defeat of France in 1870, Von Bismarck requested from the French government as war damages the payment of 5 billion Gold French francs.

He knew France would not be able to pay and put other harsh conditions in case the French defaulted.

In less that 2 years the total amount was paid. There were not enough workers in Western Europe to work in the steel industry so a huge immigration was coming from Eastern Europe. If there was poverty it was not the fact of unemployment but lack of health, education, skills or wars.

Still in 1950 the average American yearly wage was $3,300 and the average price for a 2 bedroom house was $7,700. The house was worth 2.3 times the yearly wage.
Today the average yearly salary is $62,000 and the home median price is $430,000, almost 7 times the average salary.

If you put in consideration the amount of taxes taken away by municipalities, sales taxes, state taxes and federal taxes, the effective salary is only $49,900.

Why the average household becomes poorer is because the burden of taxes and fees. Before 1954 most European countries did not have VAT but by 1968 the whole economy was “covered by the VAT (goods and services) and other collective social benefits paid by the taxpayers to the enjoyment of non-taxpayers.

[Yellowtail]

15 hours ago, placeholder said:

Did you stop to think that maybe the reason that many of them are expats is that they can't afford to live in the United States?

I do not believe that. 

[placeholder]

1 minute ago, Yellowtail said:

I do not believe that. 

Boomers are leaving America to retire abroad in droves because the U.S. is just too expensive

"Some move abroad because they simply cannot comfortably live on a fixed retirement income in the U.S., where the costs of housing and healthcare, especially, are becoming increasingly unaffordable. A substantial number of retirees rely almost completely on Social Security payments to make ends meet in the U.S., which average around $1,900 per month. A growing portion of elderly Americans live in poverty, with social services few and far between, if they are accessible at all."

https://archive.ph/DKb4y#selection-993.0-1001.74

 

[Yellowtail]

13 hours ago, placeholder said:

So better to directly tax the poor? Or the middle class? Or maybe the corporation will just have to make do with less profit.

I guess they run around naked too so they don''t need clothing or footware. Or any kind of appliance to prepare their food.

Tariffs Hit Poor Americans Hardest

https://www.piie.com/blogs/trade-and-investment-policy-watch/2014/tariffs-hit-poor-americans-hardest

Lame.

 

Poor people buy used clothes or get them free from the sally or whatnot. And they are buying new applicants for their HUD housing? 

 

You're a hoot. 

[Yellowtail]

7 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Boomers are leaving America to retire abroad in droves because the U.S. is just too expensive

"Some move abroad because they simply cannot comfortably live on a fixed retirement income in the U.S., where the costs of housing and healthcare, especially, are becoming increasingly unaffordable. A substantial number of retirees rely almost completely on Social Security payments to make ends meet in the U.S., which average around $1,900 per month. A growing portion of elderly Americans live in poverty, with social services few and far between, if they are accessible at all."

https://archive.ph/DKb4y#selection-993.0-1001.74

 

So? If retirees were not able to afford to live in the US they would all move. How many are moving? And clearly, it's not the poorest that are moving. 

 

I think it more likely those that move, think they can live better on the same dough somewhere else. 

[placeholder]

On 3/23/2025 at 7:53 AM, hotsun said:

Alternate universe is the future, yes

I keep on asking these time travelers if they have any good betting tips for upcoming sports events. So far, no joy.

[Yellowtail]

35 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Trump has a plan? Is that why he keeps on changing it?

How do you know he's changing it? 

[hotsun]

Just now, placeholder said:

I keep on asking these time travelers if they have any good betting tips for upcoming sports events. So far, no joy.

Im betting that they wont stop printing money. The reason why lefties are clueless, is that biden printed the most without any pushback. People with only dollars will be poor.

[Presnock]

1 hour ago, jas007 said:

I'm pretty sure Medicaid can't be collected overseas by anyone.  Vets in need of care while overseas can apply for benefits administered by the VA. I forget what it's called, but they are covered if they qualify.  If they're in the states, then they can always collect Medicaid if they qualify.  Some states supplement the federal benefit amount. 

yeah but many of the vets still must have that aid.  I have HS friends, went to VN too, wounded/suffering from Agent Orange cancers and other problems which also affected at least one child.  These guys draw their income from medicaid and are on disability due to their wounds/AO exposure.  I am sure that there are thousands like these, now add the burn pit vets who have finally been granted by the VA for funding.  On top of that, 30% of federal workers are government employees - I too am a VN vet and retired civil servent so if anything, if many of those vets lose their jobs, I begin to wonder how long before they get together as a fighting force with experience.  Trump's disdain for American vets, particularly those wounded/killed he seems to feel that their sacrifices were dumb.  I know how I feel about him and what a real loser he is though he may be rich, but to me he is still a loser. Missed the draft due to heel spurs but they didn't stop him from playing all the sports in college - I too had and have had heel spurs during that time but it sure didn't keep me out of the military or VN.

[Hawaiian]

27 minutes ago, Nid_Noi said:

In 1913 you could not make a 2 week holiday trip to Thailand unless you lived in one of the neighbouring countries in S.E Asia.

You cannot compare the cost of living of an average household during the last 150 years (since the Industrial Revolution).

Wealth exploded during the Industrial Revolution. There were no corporate taxes, wage taxes, income taxes and very little municipal taxes (mostly tolls, fees and levies).

For example West European countries were booming and the infrastructure in roads, railways and canals made it possible to take the train from London to Istanbul or Moscow.

After the defeat of France in 1870, Von Bismarck requested from the French government as war damages the payment of 5 billion Gold French francs.

He knew France would not be able to pay and put other harsh conditions in case the French defaulted.

In less that 2 years the total amount was paid. There were not enough workers in Western Europe to work in the steel industry so a huge immigration was coming from Eastern Europe. If there was poverty it was not the fact of unemployment but lack of health, education, skills or wars.

Still in 1950 the average American yearly wage was $3,300 and the average price for a 2 bedroom house was $7,700. The house was worth 2.3 times the yearly wage.
Today the average yearly salary is $62,000 and the home median price is $430,000, almost 7 times the average salary.

If you put in consideration the amount of taxes taken away by municipalities, sales taxes, state taxes and federal taxes, the effective salary is only $49,900.

Why the average household becomes poorer is because the burden of taxes and fees. Before 1954 most European countries did not have VAT but by 1968 the whole economy was “covered by the VAT (goods and services) and other collective social benefits paid by the taxpayers to the enjoyment of non-taxpayers.

The price ratio of a 2 bedroom house to average annual income has changed drastically not only because of inflation, but because all of the added costs of complying with ever changing building codes.  Wages have not kept up with inflation. To keep the same ratio as in 1950, the average salary would have to be over $200,000.

[Wrwest]

On 3/22/2025 at 8:21 AM, pchansmorn said:

Are any American Expats worried Trump will stop there retirement income?  He’s headed for that next step.  He will destroy the SS system and Americans won’t have money to live on anymore.  We have our savings but it won’t last forever.  A reverse mortgage may be in our future.

No worries. They are going to "privatize" the system and you will be making. oney hand over fist ... at least that is what they are saying. Current reality, Ttup and his ilk are backing off, stating that current recipients will continue. They have been faced with the reality of the number who will vote against any future Republicans. Now to address their kids and Grandchildren. Please note, no addressing the very real issue with raising the contribution income caps. That would hit the wealthy and their employers hardest ... even though it would preserve the system. I do love the irony ... working middle class income kept low and now the power brokers are faced with how the same will eat in retirement, since they were not paid enough to save enough in their working years.