New house - a few questions for the electrical system

[CLW]

We are currently building a new house and the architect has only specified the number and position of switches, lights and other consumers. She said it's up to the technician or engineer to make detailed electrical plans. 

 

While I have a basic understanding of electricity, I still have a few questions.

 

1.) I want the electric outlets all grounded. I guess this is the current standard in European countries anyways???

2.) safety has a high priority. I don't understand the differences between RCD, RCCB and so on. Which system is the standard at the moment and how does it look on a wiring diagram or the breaker box / MDB.

3.) for connecting the wires in the junction boxes I don't want them to be just twisted together Thai style. I want them to use quick connectors. Am I overreacting? I guess the use of connectors is standard in Europe for a few decades already....

4.) I've read that some A/C companies refuse to install inverter units on a RCD (or similar layout). Is this true? Or must that circuit(s) from the A/C just be excluded from the RCD wiring.

 

Thank you for your help 🙏🏻

[sometimewoodworker]

3 hours ago, CLW said:

1.) I want the electric outlets all grounded. I guess this is the current standard in European countries anyways???

You decide, but if you are sensible you will insist they are.

3 hours ago, CLW said:

2.) safety has a high priority. I don't understand the differences between RCD, RCCB and so on. Which system is the standard at the moment and how does it look on a wiring diagram or the breaker box / MDB.

Again you decide, however the standard PEA installation requires at least 1 RCCB it is specified for the whole house.

Current U.K. practice is that each circuit has its own RCCB this is good practice. However it is sensible to have the freezer and fridge on an unprotected circuit so you don’t loose the whole lot if 1 circuit trips. @Crossy will probably be persuaded to draw a custom installation wiring diagram but you need to know much more detail as to exactly what you want.

a typical Thai double story house may have just 4 circuits, we have an over kill and it maybe 30 😉 

we also have double outlets at 50cm intervals in the house and groups of 5 outlets at similar spacing in the workshop, even so I still need a few extension cables

 

 

3 hours ago, CLW said:

3.) for connecting the wires in the junction boxes I don't want them to be just twisted together Thai style. I want them to use quick connectors. Am I overreacting? I guess the use of connectors is standard in Europe for a few decades already....

Again you have to decide, but twisted wires + wire nuts is not always bad.

Wago connectors are good but you will have to insist and watch like a hawk and buy a few hundred of various versions. Few if any installers have them or know where to get them

3 hours ago, CLW said:

4.) I've read that some A/C companies refuse to install inverter units on a RCD (or similar layout). Is this true? Or must that circuit(s) from the A/C just be excluded from the RCD wiring.

If they refuse get a different installer. There is no reason I know of to exclude AC from RCCB protection.

all our AC units are behind an RCCB

[Clapped out]

( I know nothing about PEA norms & standards )  in Euroland each outlet tends to be wired directly back to 'its own' breaker however in UK land outlets tend to be wired so that a group of outlets is on a single circuit ( "a ring" ). 

 

OP, if I were in your shoes I woulld hunt around for an experienced design engineer and see if you could persuade him to design ( with scope for changes & expansion )  a distribution system layout. 

FWIW I wouldn't be expecting this same guy to implement the design....I would expect him to be sufficiently involved that he could sign off that what was implemented was what he designed.

With all the electricial stuff that is around these days ( solar panels, batteries, electric gates, water pumps etc etc )  the design is not necessarily trivial

[Crossy]

There's very little available in English, however the Thai requirements are very similar to the Aussie regs AS/NZ3000, if you wire to that you'll be good to go.

 

The only point where you may go adrift is the Thai method for implementing MEN (providing a neutral-earth bond) the incoming neutral is routed via the ground bar. See the diagram below (my translations).

 

The original PEA document is here it may be worth printing it out for your sparks. Groundwire Mk2 book-Manual.pdf that's a Onedrive link, let me know if it doesn't work for you.

 

 

 

Real and "pattern" Wago connectors are much more available than when we built our place but many Thais haven't seen them and will require instruction in their use.

 

[sometimewoodworker]

3 hours ago, Clapped out said:

in Euroland each outlet tends to be wired directly back to 'its own' breaker

That is absolutely incorrect.

it is certainly the case that high demand outlets are directly connected to the main consumer unit, one example would be a cooker.
However groups of sockets are connected as a radial and each radial has its own breaker.

4 hours ago, Clapped out said:

UK land outlets tend to be wired so that a group of outlets is on a single circuit ( "a ring" ). 

While partially correct, that groups of outlets can (quite often are) connected as a ring final, this wiring pattern is being superseded by groups of outlets as a radial.

 

broadly speaking a ring final has 2 connections (ends) to the breaker while a radial has one.

 

Very few countries use ring finals, in most it is prohibited. Thailand has nothing stopping you from using ring finals but no Thai electriction or electrical fitter is trained on them. The testing of ring finals is not that difficult but is completely unnecessary to learn for Thailand.

[Peterw42]

13 hours ago, CLW said:

1.) I want the electric outlets all grounded.

If you have the opportunity to earth all outlets then great idea. But keep in mind you can have very few appliances that are earthed nowadays. I literally have 3 earthed appliances in my whole house, washing machine, microwave and storage hot water system. Hot water system is on its own circuit, and all other appliances are in one room, the kitchen.

[Crossy]

10 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

If you have the opportunity to earth all outlets then great idea. But keep in mind you can have very few appliances that are earthed nowadays. I literally have 3 earthed appliances in my whole house, washing machine, microwave and storage hot water system. Hot water system is on its own circuit, and all other appliances are in one room, the kitchen.

 

Whilst this is undoubtable the case, our OP is a new build and he won't pass the PEA inspection for a permanent meter with ungrounded/2-pin outlets.

 

You can safely plug 2-pin appliances into 3-pin outlets, the reverse is not the case.

 

The additional cost for a properly wired system is insignificant in the overall scheme of things.

 

I would also recommend running a neutral to light switches, you won't actually need it until you do, and it's a pain to retro-fit.

 

[sometimewoodworker]

2 hours ago, Crossy said:

The additional cost for a properly wired system is insignificant in the overall scheme of things.

This is so true. It is also a really good idea to install many more sockets than you can imagine that you will need, you are likely to find that your needs are going to multiple exponentially and the cost when building is trivial, probably less than 200 baht per fitting.