5 minutes ago, jas007 said:

Wasn't it Zelenskyy himself who said that half the aid supposedly furnished by the US was never received? To be sure, there was some question as to where the money went, but if Ukraine didn't receive it, where did it go? Who is lying? 

 

What is Zelenskyy's salary?  And if a full and complete audit were conducted of his bank accounts, how much do you think they would uncover?  What about the accounts of his entourage?  And if the money uncovered wasn't stolen, where did it come from?  The tooth fairy? 

 

As for your other assertions.  I refer you to my earlier posts. Apparently, you have a reading comprehension problem and you don't even understand why you think the way you do. 

A Putin lover, who, while arguing on behalf of Putin's invasion, once told me I have a reading comprehension problem, so maybe you can help me out because, you know, I'm just so illiterate:  To be clear, your position is that Zelenskiy himself stole $100 billion dollars which no one noticed until he himself pointed out his own theft?

That's your point?

1 minute ago, ChicagoExpat said:

A Putin lover, who, while arguing on behalf of Putin's invasion, once told me I have a reading comprehension problem, so maybe you can help me out because, you know, I'm just so illiterate:  To be clear, your position is that Zelenskiy himself stole $100 billion dollars which no one noticed until he himself pointed out his own theft?

That's your point?

Did I say Zelenskyy stole $100 billion dollars?  No, I did not.  But I'm pretty sure he doesn't have clean hands.  I'm pretty sure he's not just a good investor, and I'm pretty sure neither are members of his entourage.  But we should just ignore that and allow the grift to continue?  

 

My point was that certain people want a state of continual war for one reason and one reason only:  to make money.  Zelenskyy included. Do you understand that much?  The system needs more and more money. And one way they get that money is through the war machine.  And US taxpayers and the poor people of the world foot the bill.  It's called inflation.  

 

It's a matter of economics as much as anything.  I didn't dream it up.  I'm just an observer trying to stay out of the way of the ensuing mess. 

 

Trump was elected, in part, based on a promise to end the war.  And yet that's not in the cards, apparently.  A bad move on his part, but that's the reality. 

2 hours ago, ChicagoExpat said:

A Putin lover, who, while arguing on behalf of Putin's invasion, once told me I have a reading comprehension problem, so maybe you can help me out because, you know, I'm just so illiterate:  To be clear, your position is that Zelenskiy himself stole $100 billion dollars which no one noticed until he himself pointed out his own theft?

That's your point?

One more thing, although it should go without saying. 

 

In your mind and with your mindset, there are only two kinds of people. "Putin lovers" or people who think Ukraine should continue to have Carte Blanche to fund a war that a rational observe might conclude would be an exercise in futility. 

 

Am I correct?  Two kinds of people with no room for an alternate reality?

 

And yet calling someone a "Putin lover" or a "Russian supporter" is no way to win an argument, without more.  

 

And for what it's worth, I don't know Putin.  I don't even know any Russians, other than the ones I see around my condo complex who to me seem to be regular people. Like you and me. And I'm sure that, among Russians, even they cannot agree about the war.  But, like it or not, the war is happening.  What's the answer?  

 

And for what it's worth, I know people from Ukraine.  One of my great great aunts was from Ukraine. My father had a friend whose wife was from Ukraine.  She was nice.  

 

So, in my mind, two groups of nice people. Russians and Ukrainians. And whatever is going on between those people, it's nothing new. It's been going on for hundreds of years. Drawing some lines on a map to form a new nation state and thinking that should end all discussion about the war is delusional. The Neocons would like everyone to believe that, I'm sure. Ditto for the warmongers.   

 

So far, it's an argument that is losing badly.  

4 hours ago, jas007 said:

Wasn't it Zelenskyy himself who said that half the aid supposedly furnished by the US was never received? To be sure, there was some question as to where the money went, but if Ukraine didn't receive it, where did it go? Who is lying? 

 

What is Zelenskyy's salary?  And if a full and complete audit were conducted of his bank accounts, how much do you think they would uncover?  What about the accounts of his entourage?  And if the money uncovered wasn't stolen, where did it come from?  The tooth fairy? 

 

As for your other assertions.  I refer you to my earlier posts. Apparently, you have a reading comprehension problem and you don't even understand why you think the way you do. 

Quote from your post:

"Wasn't it Zelenskyy himself who said that half the aid supposedly furnished by the US was never received? To be sure, there was some question as to where the money went, but if Ukraine didn't receive it, where did it go? Who is lying?"

 

It seems you are reproducing baseless MAGA propaganda. Zelinski did not claim that $100 billion vanished. Just that Ukraine actually did not receive it.

 

The premise of your whole reasoning is flawed.

 

Several reasons for not receiving, in particular:

- 60% of the money was spent in the U.S, and not only on weapons, also on training, logistics  services etc...

- not all what had been pleged had been actually sent at that time. There had been frequently long delays between decisions and deliveries.

 

Here's the conclusion of a detailed analysis made by the CSIS:

 

"Regardless of how Zelensky did the math, the bottom line is the same: no money is missing. Also important is that most of the money is not delivered directly to Ukraine but handled by trusted agencies, mostly the U.S. military, the Department of State/USAID, and the World Bank. The image of pallets of cash being sent to Ukraine is inaccurate. This doesn't say whether the United States should or should not provide more aid, but it does provide better information for making that decision."

https://www.csis.org/analysis/where-missing-100-billion-us-aid-ukraine

 

14 minutes ago, candide said:

Quote from your post:

"Wasn't it Zelenskyy himself who said that half the aid supposedly furnished by the US was never received? To be sure, there was some question as to where the money went, but if Ukraine didn't receive it, where did it go? Who is lying?"

 

It seems you are reproducing baseless MAGA propaganda. Zelinski did not claim that $100 billion vanished. Just that Ukraine actually did not receive it.

 

The premise of your whole reasoning is flawed.

 

Several reasons for not receiving, in particular:

- 60% of the money was spent in the U.S, and not only on weapons, also on training, logistics  services etc...

- not all what had been pleged had been actually sent at that time. There had been frequently long delays between decisions and deliveries.

 

Here's the conclusion of a detailed analysis made by the CSIS:

 

"Regardless of how Zelensky did the math, the bottom line is the same: no money is missing. Also important is that most of the money is not delivered directly to Ukraine but handled by trusted agencies, mostly the U.S. military, the Department of State/USAID, and the World Bank. The image of pallets of cash being sent to Ukraine is inaccurate. This doesn't say whether the United States should or should not provide more aid, but it does provide better information for making that decision."

https://www.csis.org/analysis/where-missing-100-billion-us-aid-ukraine

 

You're twisting my words.  

 

I did not say that 100 billion dollars vanished. You said that.  I said that it was Zelenskyy himself who said that half the aid was never received. There's a difference. I'm not the one with the flawed premise. 

 

And yes, there are various explanations.  

 

In any event, the entire discussion occurred within the larger context of a discussion about corruption and fraud on the part of some Ukrainians, including Zelenskyy and his buddies.  

 

Is it your contention that no grifting occurred? 

 

 

6 hours ago, jas007 said:

As for your "reminder from before"?  I explained my position. You either can't read or you simply don't want to understand.  Ii think that's called "denial."  To accept reality would conflict with your belief system. You're in denial.

 

As for arguing in "bad faith"? Where is the bad faith? Why would it be unreasonable for the USA to act in its own best interest?  That's an OK way to proceed for Ukraine, but if the USA acts in a similar fashion, that's not acceptable?  Sounds to me like narcissism. Gaslighting others is a common technique. A typical way of manipulating others to get what you want.  And here, Ukraine wants money, weapons, and material or whatever.   And they want the USA to ignore the fact that half the aid previously furnished was stolen. They want the USA to ignore the fact that Ukraine has already lost the war.  And with Trump's latest move, perhaps Zelenskyy succeed in his scam. Sad, but apparently true, unless Trump has some secret plan.  Apparently, the Neocon warmongers now control Trump.  

 

As I've pointed out more than once.  It's not a matter of being a "Russian supporter."  It's not an either/or proposition. I'm sure in your mind you would like that to be the case, but only because you're in denial and can't see the big picture.  

 

3 minutes ago, jas007 said:

You're twisting my words.  

 

I did not say that 100 billion dollars vanished. You said that.  I said that it was Zelenskyy himself who said that half the aid was never received. There's a difference. I'm not the one with the flawed premise. 

 

And yes, there are various explanations.  

 

In any event, the entire discussion occurred within the larger context of a discussion about corruption and fraud on the part of some Ukrainians, including Zelenskyy and his buddies.  

 

Is it your contention that no grifting occurred? 

 

 

I quoted your own words. You repeatedly used Zelinski's statement as a justification for alleging massive corruption, and even corruption by Zelinski himself.

 

Another quote from a previous post (fully quoted above to allow checking the context), in which you claimed the aid was stolen.

 

"And they want the USA to ignore the fact that half the aid previously furnished was stolen. They want the USA to ignore the fact that Ukraine has already lost the war.  And with Trump's latest move, perhaps Zelenskyy succeed in his scam."

53 minutes ago, candide said:

 

I quoted your own words. You repeatedly used Zelinski's statement as a justification for alleging massive corruption, and even corruption by Zelinski himself.

 

Another quote from a previous post (fully quoted above to allow checking the context), in which you claimed the aid was stolen.

 

"And they want the USA to ignore the fact that half the aid previously furnished was stolen. They want the USA to ignore the fact that Ukraine has already lost the war.  And with Trump's latest move, perhaps Zelenskyy succeed in his scam."

There was massive corruption. \What would you call hundreds of millions of dollars, missing?  Pocket change?  Where I come from, if I stole $1000, the police would be knocking at my door.  

 

And I admit, your quote is accurate.  But in the grand scheme of things, it was just hyperbole.  

 

Something is rotten, somewhere. Or do you disagree?  

19 minutes ago, jas007 said:

There was massive corruption. \What would you call hundreds of millions of dollars, missing?  Pocket change?  Where I come from, if I stole $1000, the police would be knocking at my door.  

 

And I admit, your quote is accurate.  But in the grand scheme of things, it was just hyperbole.  

 

Something is rotten, somewhere. Or do you disagree?  

More baseless claims from you! Where is your evidence that hundreds of millions of dollars missing? You have nothing!

3 minutes ago, candide said:

More baseless claims from you! Where is your evidence that hundreds of millions of dollars missing? You have nothing!

And you have nothing to prove it did not go missing. So why argue about it just because you disagree? 

15 minutes ago, candide said:

More baseless claims from you! Where is your evidence that hundreds of millions of dollars missing? You have nothing!

And how do I "prove" my assertion? By way of source that doesn't exist because the media is bought and paid for?   

 

How many mansions does Zelenskyy have around the world?  What about his wife?  His buddies?  What about the Ferrari's and the Lamborghinis and the Bugattis?  Don't tell me those are a fantasy. 

 

Do you seriously want everyone to believe that if an honest audit were conducted, that audit would show that Zelenskyy was penniless?  And if not, did he get the money from the tooth fairy? 

 

 

23 minutes ago, thesetat said:

And you have nothing to prove it did not go missing. So why argue about it just because you disagree? 

Are you kidding? It's not possible to prove a negative. I posted a CSIS analysis showing facts discrediting the claim made by jas007.

May I remind you that it's the person who makes a claim who needs to provide evidence? 🤣

1 minute ago, candide said:

Are you kidding? It's not possible to prove a negative. I posted a CSIS analysis showing facts discrediting the claim made by jas007.

May I remind you that it's the person who makes a claim who needs to provide evidence? 🤣

Correct, but it is also the person being accused to provide proof the accusation is incorrect when it comes to government and money missing. 

Take the old man robbed by a street whore. I am most certain he has no proof but the police are actively searching for the woman to arrest her. 

13 minutes ago, jas007 said:

And how do I "prove" my assertion? By way of source that doesn't exist because the media is bought and paid for?   

 

How many mansions does Zelenskyy have around the world?  What about his wife?  His buddies?  What about the Ferrari's and the Lamborghinis and the Bugattis?  Don't tell me those are a fantasy. 

 

Do you seriously want everyone to believe that if an honest audit were conducted, that audit would show that Zelenskyy was penniless?  And if not, did he get the money from the tooth fairy? 

 

 

As usual you reply with a lame conspiracy theory (the media hide it). It's so convenient! 🤣

36 minutes ago, ThreeCardMonte said:

“You have nothing!”

 

Hey, I thought you kept that phrase exclusively for me.

When people make claims they cannot support with reliable evidence, they "have nothing". That includes you! 

3 hours ago, candide said:

Quote from your post:

"Wasn't it Zelenskyy himself who said that half the aid supposedly furnished by the US was never received? To be sure, there was some question as to where the money went, but if Ukraine didn't receive it, where did it go? Who is lying?"

 

It seems you are reproducing baseless MAGA propaganda. Zelinski did not claim that $100 billion vanished. Just that Ukraine actually did not receive it.

 

The premise of your whole reasoning is flawed.

 

Several reasons for not receiving, in particular:

- 60% of the money was spent in the U.S, and not only on weapons, also on training, logistics  services etc...

- not all what had been pleged had been actually sent at that time. There had been frequently long delays between decisions and deliveries.

 

Here's the conclusion of a detailed analysis made by the CSIS:

 

"Regardless of how Zelensky did the math, the bottom line is the same: no money is missing. Also important is that most of the money is not delivered directly to Ukraine but handled by trusted agencies, mostly the U.S. military, the Department of State/USAID, and the World Bank. The image of pallets of cash being sent to Ukraine is inaccurate. This doesn't say whether the United States should or should not provide more aid, but it does provide better information for making that decision."

https://www.csis.org/analysis/where-missing-100-billion-us-aid-ukraine

 

 

55 minutes ago, thesetat said:

Correct, but it is also the person being accused to provide proof the accusation is incorrect when it comes to government and money missing. 

Take the old man robbed by a street whore. I am most certain he has no proof but the police are actively searching for the woman to arrest her. 

To start with, it's Russian propaganda.

 

I also previously commented and linked a CSIS analysis debunking this claim with facts.

 

But maybe you would trust this one? 🙂

 

"On Feb. 5, 2025, General Keith Kellogg, President Donald Trump's special envoy for Ukraine and Russia, reaffirmed that the $174 billion of U.S. aid to Ukraine is accounted for and being distributed through a transparent process:

“The United States, the American people, the U.S. citizens have given Ukraine over $174 billion. And we have put inspector generals on the ground in Ukraine and here to track that money. So, we have fairly good reporting on where it’s going,” Kellogg said on the Newsmax TV channel.

Kellogg also confirmed that part of the allocated funds has been used to produce weapons in the U.S. before being sent to Ukraine, while other parts were spent on replenishing and expanding U.S. weapons stockpiles."

https://www.voanews.com/a/false-russian-allegations-that-ukraine-stole-100-billion-of-us-funds/7967072.html

28 minutes ago, candide said:

When people make claims they cannot support with reliable evidence, they "have nothing". That includes you! 

I keep trying to respond, but every time I get something typed out, some devious person resets the app and deletes it all.  So I have to find a work around.  It's sad when someone thinks that playing games is the only answer. I guess they can't handle the truth. Anyway, the interference is not a fluke. Just deliberate nonsense. 

16 minutes ago, jas007 said:

I keep trying to respond, but every time I get something typed out, some devious person resets the app and deletes it all.  So I have to find a work around.  It's sad when someone thinks that playing games is the only answer. I guess they can't handle the truth. Anyway, the interference is not a fluke. Just deliberate nonsense. 

Isn't your phone is a bit old so the OS is not updated any more?

Or are you still using the Thaivisa app?

10 minutes ago, candide said:

Isn't your phone is a bit old so the OS is not updated any more?

Or are you still using the Thaivisa app?

I'm on a Mac desktop. The new Mac4 Mini and the desktop app, I believe, if there is such a thing.  It stays on my dock and is separate from the Safari browser.  I always have the latest updates. 

 

Whatever is going on, I'm pretty sure it's deliberate. 

 

And for whoever is running this site:  do you want an active sire with posters?  Or are you OK with a site that pushes a political agenda, only?   It's not as if ASEAN is the only website on the World Wide Web. 

21 minutes ago, jas007 said:

I'm on a Mac desktop. The new Mac4 Mini and the desktop app, I believe, if there is such a thing.  It stays on my dock and is separate from the Safari browser.  I always have the latest updates. 

 

Whatever is going on, I'm pretty sure it's deliberate. 

 

And for whoever is running this site:  do you want an active sire with posters?  Or are you OK with a site that pushes a political agenda, only?   It's not as if ASEAN is the only website on the World Wide Web. 

Maybe simply try to access it on the browser?

 

There are sometimes compatibility issues with AN on specific environments. For example, until recently I was not able to click on any AN banner in the lower part of my Samsung tab's screen.  For example,  I had to reload to see new messages because I couldn't click on "see new messages". It was ok a few months ago, then it did not work, and now it seems to be OK again. Probably related to updates on either AN or my tab.

 

You can report your problem to them.

9 minutes ago, candide said:

Maybe simply try to access it on the browser?

 

There are sometimes compatibility issues with AN on specific environments. For example, until recently I was not able to click on any AN banner in the lower part of my Samsung tab's screen.  For example,  I had to reload to see new messages because I couldn't click on "see new messages". It was ok a few months ago, then it did not work, and now it seems to be OK again. Probably related to updates on either AN or my tab.

 

You can report your problem to them.

If I thought it was a random occurrence, I would do just that. But if I had to bet, I'd say it's deliberate. It mostly happens on controversial issues.  What are the chances of that being random? 

 

Anyway, I think I'm mostly talking to myself on here anyway.  Too many people are brainwashed and only believe in their "agenda."  And the person in the background "randomly" resetting the app thinks they're performing a valued service.  

 

If I'm not back on here, I wish everyone well.  

 

 

1 hour ago, jas007 said:

I keep trying to respond, but every time I get something typed out, some devious person resets the app and deletes it all.  So I have to find a work around.  It's sad when someone thinks that playing games is the only answer. I guess they can't handle the truth. Anyway, the interference is not a fluke. Just deliberate nonsense. 

Where is the confused emoji.

 

Sure mate, moderators are reading with you, don't like what you're writing so reset your app.

11 hours ago, jas007 said:

I keep trying to respond, but every time I get something typed out, some devious person resets the app and deletes it all.  So I have to find a work around.  It's sad when someone thinks that playing games is the only answer. I guess they can't handle the truth. Anyway, the interference is not a fluke. Just deliberate nonsense. 

Wait, you're really claiming someone is interfering with your ability to respond on this site?  Someone wants to silence your making pro-Putin commentary here so they prevent you from posting?

 

I hate to tell you this but it's been Zelenskiy all along, with his "mansions, Ferraris, and yachts" who is out to get you.

 

Wow.  Just wow.

19 minutes ago, ChicagoExpat said:

Wait, you're really claiming someone is interfering with your ability to respond on this site?  Wow. 

Paranoid for sure. resets the app haha... they got him singled out and spend their days and nights watching not what he posts anymore, now they are watching his keystrokes to undermine posting haha..

16 hours ago, jas007 said:

One more thing, although it should go without saying. 

 

In your mind and with your mindset, there are only two kinds of people. "Putin lovers" or people who think Ukraine should continue to have Carte Blanche to fund a war that a rational observe might conclude would be an exercise in futility. 

 

Am I correct?  Two kinds of people with no room for an alternate reality?

 

And yet calling someone a "Putin lover" or a "Russian supporter" is no way to win an argument, without more.  

 

And for what it's worth, I don't know Putin.  I don't even know any Russians, other than the ones I see around my condo complex who to me seem to be regular people. Like you and me. And I'm sure that, among Russians, even they cannot agree about the war.  But, like it or not, the war is happening.  What's the answer?  

 

And for what it's worth, I know people from Ukraine.  One of my great great aunts was from Ukraine. My father had a friend whose wife was from Ukraine.  She was nice.  

 

So, in my mind, two groups of nice people. Russians and Ukrainians. And whatever is going on between those people, it's nothing new. It's been going on for hundreds of years. Drawing some lines on a map to form a new nation state and thinking that should end all discussion about the war is delusional. The Neocons would like everyone to believe that, I'm sure. Ditto for the warmongers.   

 

So far, it's an argument that is losing badly.  

Episode #116 in arguing in bad faith:  In my mind there are NOT only two types of people, and even if I did think that, they wouldn't be the two categories you invented.  This is called a straw man argument.

 

WOW, YOU DON'T KNOW PUTIN?  That really changes everything and I'm glad you stated that clearly.  You won't state your love for him for clearly, but you will argue on his behalf day after day while pretending to be just a neutral guy who wants peace.

 

Thank you for clearing that up, GUY WHO DEFINITELY DOES NOT SUPPORT RUSSIA.