1 hour ago, jas007 said:

That's all well and good, except for the fact that Ukraine doesn't have any minerals that Russia doesn't also have.  Aren't the valuable minerals in the territory currently occupied by Russia?

 

I'm not sure what Trump is thinking, other than he's got some scheme to get Zelenskyy talking to Russia while the US exists, stage left.  

Where are Ukraine's critical mineral deposits?

Ukraine has at least thirty seven crtiical mineral deposits across the country, with Lithium, Titanium and Graphite being the most abundant.
Approximately 19% (seven) of Ukraine's main critical mineral deposits are currently held in Russian-occupied territory, according to the latest frontline data from ISW in February 2025.

What are Ukraine’s rare earth minerals, where are they and what does this deal with Trump involve? | The Independent

17 hours ago, jas007 said:

So, how is a continuing involvement in the war in the "best interest" of the US?  You say that as if it's self evident.  It's not. That's your boogeyman, not mine. Please explain.  

 

I really don't care what Ukraine does in its own self interest, so long as it doesn't require my tax dollars, half of which go down the drain for some sort of kickback scheme to corrupt politicians and the war machine. I just paid some taxes not too long ago, and it wasn't much fun.

 

And let's not forget about the inflation that results when the USA borrows money it doesn't have to fund the continuing war and the continuing corruption schemes. And because of the way the world economy works, it isn't just the USA middle class that funds the nonsense.  The USA inflation is primarily exported to the rest of the world, in case you didn't know that. 

Still waiting for your explanation for what I asked you -- here's a reminder:  Feel free to show where I created a boogeyman out of Putin, or argued that he is going to go on to conquer all of Europe, and then the U.S.  And that I'm consciously arguing on behalf of "Anything to sway public opinion and continue the flow of money to the military complex and to those profiting from the corruption."  Because you can't just make sh!t up, and when called out on it, make up more sh!t.

25 minutes ago, ChicagoExpat said:

Still waiting for your explanation for what I asked you -- here's a reminder:  Feel free to show where I created a boogeyman out of Putin, or argued that he is going to go on to conquer all of Europe, and then the U.S.  And that I'm consciously arguing on behalf of "Anything to sway public opinion and continue the flow of money to the military complex and to those profiting from the corruption."  Because you can't just make sh!t up, and when called out on it, make up more sh!t.

Go back and look at some of your earlier posts.  You state that Putin's original intent was to take all of Ukraine, but that's a questionable assertion. That's why the original incursion was called a "Special Military Operation" and not a war. The objectives were limited. You say "no one denies" that Russia's original goal was to take all of Ukraine, but again, just because that assertion fits your narrative doesn't make it true.  Finally, you assert that countries have a right not to be Russia vassal states. By implication, the gist of that assertion is that Putin could continue the war from Ukraine into other countries.  

 

And finally, you have stated that it's in the "best interest:" of the US to continue its involvement in the war, but nowhere do you explain why. In reality, the US has no strategic interest in Central Europe in today's world.  It's no longer 1939 and, in case you're not aware, the USA is just about bankrupt. Wasting billions on an exercise in futility in Central Europe is probably the last thing that should happen, bth for the country as a whole and the people who will pay the price via inflation and destruction of the dollar. 

 

In any event, the reality is that the war is now lost. It's over. Russia will continue the war and continue to move West until Zelenskyy comes to his senses.  And perhaps Trump will also come to his senses and withdraw all American support.

 

 I'd refer you to the start of the war, where Russia poured in over the entire Russian and Belarusian border in an attempt to take Kyiv.  It seems you're not familiar with the war's first year or so -- it might be a good thing to study as you're obviously very interested in the topic.  Yes, Russia DOES (or did) want to take the entire country and the current disaster is what they have to settle for.  No one denies this was Russia's original goal, including Russia.  And you're claiming they COULD overrun all of Ukraine... but are settling for a costly stalemate?  Sorry, that doesn't make sense.

I know you think Russia is entitled to use other countries as buffer zones -- same as the Soviets -- even if against their will, but those same countries have the right NOT to be Russian vassal states.

 

6 minutes ago, jas007 said:

Go back and look at some of your earlier posts.  You state that Putin's original intent was to take all of Ukraine, but that's a questionable assertion. That's why the original incursion was called a "Special Military Operation" and not a war. The objectives were limited. You say "no one denies" that Russia's original goal was to take all of Ukraine, but again, just because that assertion fits your narrative doesn't make it true.  Finally, you assert that countries have a right not to be Russia vassal states. By implication, the gist of that assertion is that Putin could continue the war from Ukraine into other countries.  

 

And finally, you have stated that it's in the "best interest:" of the US to continue its involvement in the war, but nowhere do you explain why. In reality, the US has no strategic interest in Central Europe in today's world.  It's no longer 1939 and, in case you're not aware, the USA is just about bankrupt. Wasting billions on an exercise in futility in Central Europe is probably the last thing that should happen, bth for the country as a whole and the people who will pay the price via inflation and destruction of the dollar. 

 

In any event, the reality is that the war is now lost. It's over. Russia will continue the war and continue to move West until Zelenskyy comes to his senses.  And perhaps Trump will also come to his senses and withdraw all American support.

 

 I'd refer you to the start of the war, where Russia poured in over the entire Russian and Belarusian border in an attempt to take Kyiv.  It seems you're not familiar with the war's first year or so -- it might be a good thing to study as you're obviously very interested in the topic.  Yes, Russia DOES (or did) want to take the entire country and the current disaster is what they have to settle for.  No one denies this was Russia's original goal, including Russia.  And you're claiming they COULD overrun all of Ukraine... but are settling for a costly stalemate?  Sorry, that doesn't make sense.

I know you think Russia is entitled to use other countries as buffer zones -- same as the Soviets -- even if against their will, but those same countries have the right NOT to be Russian vassal states.

 

It's not questionable at all.  When you invade a country across every border possible and intend to take the capital, that's trying to conquer an entire country.

 

Here's a little story for you -- a parable, even.  I wonder if you'll recognize who is who.  Hint:  You're in there!

 

One day a thug started stabbing someone, in broad daylight, where everyone could see.  As people prepared to try and stop the thug from killing the victim, an observer claimed "He's not really trying to kill him!  It's a just Special Stabbing Operation!  The victim obviously deserves to die -- don't try to stop the dignified gentleman from completing his noble work.  Oh, and I DEFINITELY DO NOT SUPPORT THE DIGNIFIED GENTLEMAN.  I just want peace in the neighborhood and am tired of my tax dollars going to persecute dignified gentlemen.  Who are the rest of you to judge the dignified gentleman?"

 

You know, the lengths to which you'll go to justify Russia's actions to us, all while DEFINITELY NOT SUPPORTING RUSSIA, is remarkable.

27 minutes ago, ChicagoExpat said:

It's not questionable at all.  When you invade a country across every border possible and intend to take the capital, that's trying to conquer an entire country.

 

Here's a little story for you -- a parable, even.  I wonder if you'll recognize who is who.  Hint:  You're in there!

 

One day a thug started stabbing someone, in broad daylight, where everyone could see.  As people prepared to try and stop the thug from killing the victim, an observer claimed "He's not really trying to kill him!  It's a just Special Stabbing Operation!  The victim obviously deserves to die -- don't try to stop the dignified gentleman from completing his noble work.  Oh, and I DEFINITELY DO NOT SUPPORT THE DIGNIFIED GENTLEMAN.  I just want peace in the neighborhood and am tired of my tax dollars going to persecute dignified gentlemen.  Who are the rest of you to judge the dignified gentleman?"

 

You know, the lengths to which you'll go to justify Russia's actions to us, all while DEFINITELY NOT SUPPORTING RUSSIA, is remarkable.

Here's the problem: your view of the war, how it started and why, and how it's now progressing does not comport with reality.  In fact, it's all more or less wishful thinking.  I've outlined why.

 

Ukraine cannot win the war at this point. For them, it's over and the best they can hope for is a deal with Russia. The sooner the better. Maybe, they can keep what's left of their country. Consider the past three or four years.  Ukraine had ample support from the US and from certain EU countries. Apparently, more support than they really could use, as half the money and equipment was stolen or sold on the black market.  And now they want more?  I don't think so.

 

How can you possibly be so callous as to think thousands more dead kids is no big deal?  

 

And I'm not "supporting" Russia.  I'm just not in favor of endless wars that enrich only bankers and the military complex and the politicians who profit from the corruption.  And, most importantly, I'd rather not see WW III. 

1 hour ago, jas007 said:

Here's the problem: your view of the war, how it started and why, and how it's now progressing does not comport with reality.  In fact, it's all more or less wishful thinking.  I've outlined why.

 

Ukraine cannot win the war at this point. For them, it's over and the best they can hope for is a deal with Russia. The sooner the better. Maybe, they can keep what's left of their country. Consider the past three or four years.  Ukraine had ample support from the US and from certain EU countries. Apparently, more support than they really could use, as half the money and equipment was stolen or sold on the black market.  And now they want more?  I don't think so.

 

How can you possibly be so callous as to think thousands more dead kids is no big deal?  

 

And I'm not "supporting" Russia.  I'm just not in favor of endless wars that enrich only bankers and the military complex and the politicians who profit from the corruption.  And, most importantly, I'd rather not see WW III. 

More like it doesn't comport with Z fascist and Maga fascist talking points about the war which are weirdly exactly the same.

3 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

More like it doesn't comport with Z fascist and Maga fascist talking points about the war which are weirdly exactly the same.

Just because something is a "talking point" doesn't make it untrue.

 

I have yet to see a persuasive argument that details how, exactly, Zelenskyy's fantasies could ever come to fruition.  Russia isn't going to stop and say "sorry."  They aren't giving back Crimea, and they aren't giving back the parts of the Donbas that are now part of Russia.  It's a war and they won. 

 

And yet people like you repeat the left wing narrative that anyone who sees reality and opposes a continuation of the war for no good reason must be "fascist."  

 

What do you say to the families of the hundreds of thousands of kids who will no doubt be slaughtered for no good reason?   It's a meat grinder for those kids, and there's no point to it.

 

And there would certainly be no value to the world if WW III were to break out simply because the war mongers  have good propaganda and people like you believe it.  It's called brainwashing for a reason.  

3 minutes ago, jas007 said:

Just because something is a "talking point" doesn't make it untrue.

 

I have yet to see a persuasive argument that details how, exactly, Zelenskyy's fantasies could ever come to fruition.  Russia isn't going to stop and say "sorry."  They aren't giving back Crimea, and they aren't giving back the parts of the Donbas that are now part of Russia.  It's a war and they won. 

 

And yet people like you repeat the left wing narrative that anyone who sees reality and opposes a continuation of the war for no good reason must be "fascist."  

 

What do you say to the families of the hundreds of thousands of kids who will no doubt be slaughtered for no good reason?   It's a meat grinder for those kids, and there's no point to it.

 

And there would certainly be no value to the world if WW III were to break out simply because the war mongers  have good propaganda and people like you believe it.  It's called brainwashing for a reason.  

No doubt that you are familiar with brainwashing. 

4 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

No doubt that you are familiar with brainwashing. 

I am. You are the perfect example.  Anyone buying into your nonsense would have to deny a lot of reality.

 

You'd have to believe that Russia would stop, apologize, and return all captured territories to Ukraine, including Crimea. 

 

You'd have to believe that, despite massive help over the past few years from the US and from the EU, none of which was successful in stopping Russia, that somehow, more aid is necessary and would result in a Ukrainian victory.

 

You'd have to believe that kids won't be slaughtered by the thousands. And that even if they are, "so what"? 

 

And you'd have to be indifferent to the consequences of WW IIII breaking out and possibly escalating to a nuclear armageddon. 

 

So tell me, who's brainwashed? 

49 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

No doubt that you are familiar with brainwashing. 

I am familiar with it. Zelenski has been doing it for some time now. Including his own people. He uses hope and desperation as his tactics. But nonetheless, his people are beginning to see him for what he is. Stubborn only to continue being fed money to keep his people dying without any real hope to win back what was taken. 

2 hours ago, jas007 said:

How can you possibly be so callous as to think thousands more dead kids is no big deal?  

Setting aside the other nonsense in your post, let's focus on this little gem.  The corpses of thousands more dead kids lie at the feet of Russia.  Period.  For all three invasions of Ukraine.

 

Still waiting for your explanation for what I asked you -- here's a reminder:  Feel free to show where I created a boogeyman out of Putin, or argued that he is going to go on to conquer all of Europe, and then the U.S.  And that I'm consciously arguing on behalf of "Anything to sway public opinion and continue the flow of money to the military complex and to those profiting from the corruption." 

 

You never argue in good faith, Jas (James?).  Including the endless claim that you are not a Russia supporter -- the one cheering on "the thousands more dead kids" is you.  You are indeed a Russia supporter, and all of this is what you cheer on.  Of course, you can solve this dilemma but condemning Russia's invasion -- but in all the scores of online arguments I've had with guys like you, not a single one has EVER clarified his position as a lover of peace by simply condemning Russia.  Not a single one.  And the silence speaks louder than all the Kremlin agitprop stuff you say.

 

P.S. I'm a little hurt you didn't at least acknowledge how funny my last post was.  Admit it, it WAS funny!   Trying to keep things light.

18 minutes ago, thesetat said:

I am familiar with it. Zelenski has been doing it for some time now. Including his own people. He uses hope and desperation as his tactics. But nonetheless, his people are beginning to see him for what he is. Stubborn only to continue being fed money to keep his people dying without any real hope to win back what was taken. 

I don't know about the media in Ukraine, but if it's anything like the media in the Western world, it's pretty much all propaganda. Over and over, the people who consume the media are fed the same lies. And eventually, those lies become the "truth."  It's almost humorous. And once people are brainwashed, they're beyond salvation. 

 

Look at the COVID scam. They had most of the world believing that a deadly virus was circulating that could somehow be stopped by flimsy masks and plastic partitions between booths in restaurants.  One-way isles in grocery stores and six feet of distance between people in public spaces. And god help you if you were caught outside enjoying life without a mask and a vaccine passport. And if you didn't wish to partake in their "vaccinations," you were an agent of death, a killer of grandmothers, on the loose. 

 

Fast forward to today, and you're a "fascist" if you don't subscribe to Zelenskyy's fantasies.  And again, people believe the nonsense because that was how they were programmed. 

42 minutes ago, thesetat said:

I am familiar with it. Zelenski has been doing it for some time now. Including his own people. He uses hope and desperation as his tactics. But nonetheless, his people are beginning to see him for what he is. Stubborn only to continue being fed money to keep his people dying without any real hope to win back what was taken. 

Disgraceful lies.

7 minutes ago, jas007 said:

I don't know about the media in Ukraine, but if it's anything like the media in the Western world, it's pretty much all propaganda. Over and over, the people who consume the media are fed the same lies. And eventually, those lies become the "truth."  It's almost humorous. And once people are brainwashed, they're beyond salvation. 

 

Look at the COVID scam. They had most of the world believing that a deadly virus was circulating that could somehow be stopped by flimsy masks and plastic partitions between booths in restaurants.  One-way isles in grocery stores and six feet of distance between people in public spaces. And god help you if you were caught outside enjoying life without a mask and a vaccine passport. And if you didn't wish to partake in their "vaccinations," you were an agent of death, a killer of grandmothers, on the loose. 

 

Fast forward to today, and you're a "fascist" if you don't subscribe to Zelenskyy's fantasies.  And again, people believe the nonsense because that was how they were programmed. 

And yet, in a discussion about the Russia/Ukraine issue, it's somehow irrelevant that far worse than Western media, far far worse than Ukrainian media, is the Russian media.  In terms of credibility, independence, and integrity.  Propaganda?  World class.  COVID scam?  They had that, and add in the "Sputnik V" injection that they foisted on a captive audience... with no lab testing!  And if you don't subscribe to Putin's fantasies, you're not only a fascist, you're in jail or dead.

 

Just thought I'd add some perspective FOR THE GUYS WHO DEFINITELY DON'T SUPPORT RUSSIA.

Putin doesn’t want peace.

He wants all of Ukraine. 

He wants to erase everything about Ukrainian identity including the people that refuse to be Slavic slaves of Russ.

Putin is a genocidal mass murdering war criminal. 

His soldiers are raping thieving and  child stealing and murdering.

To get him to ever negotiate you need to force him.

Of course Ukrainians will continue to fight.

It's their only hope of national survival.

They have no choice.

It's much more about people than land.

Ukraine would be willing to.give up some land for real security guarantees 

None are currently forthcoming.

 

Zelenski doesn't want peace. He wants more money and weapons and supplies. Next he will be asking foreign forces to join him in keeping the war at a stale mate. Jeez, as soon as the war is over there can be elections and Zelenski will be out in the cold. 

1 minute ago, thesetat said:

Zelenski doesn't want peace. He wants more money and weapons and supplies. Next he will be asking foreign forces to join him in keeping the war at a stale mate. Jeez, as soon as the war is over there can be elections and Zelenski will be out in the cold. 

Vile lies.

1 hour ago, ChicagoExpat said:

Setting aside the other nonsense in your post, let's focus on this little gem.  The corpses of thousands more dead kids lie at the feet of Russia.  Period.  For all three invasions of Ukraine.

 

Once again, you miss the point.  You're not seeing the big picture.

 

It's not a matter of dead kids lying "at the feet of" Russia, as if the resolution of the issue of fault settles anything. Even if you're right about the fault issue, so what?  No one ever said the world is a fair place. It's not. And in this case, being "right" and continuing a losing battle is simply asking for more grief.  

 

"I'm right and it's all Russia's fault" does not justify killing more kids and endangering the world.  I guess if Zelenskyy wants to take that position and gets away with selling that nonsense to the Ukrainian people, that's what will happen, but why should the USA be involved?  Trump should know better.  

16 hours ago, jas007 said:

Once again, you miss the point.  You're not seeing the big picture.

 

It's not a matter of dead kids lying "at the feet of" Russia, as if the resolution of the issue of fault settles anything. Even if you're right about the fault issue, so what?  No one ever said the world is a fair place. It's not. And in this case, being "right" and continuing a losing battle is simply asking for more grief.  

 

"I'm right and it's all Russia's fault" does not justify killing more kids and endangering the world.  I guess if Zelenskyy wants to take that position and gets away with selling that nonsense to the Ukrainian people, that's what will happen, but why should the USA be involved?  Trump should know better.  

I just reject your Putin-love narrative (even though YOU'RE DEFINITELY NOT A RUSSIA SUPPORTER).  You're not right about anything, from your deluded Kremlin take on Zelenskiy to the hopelessness of the situation to the Western MIC driving all this.  Literally every "point" you try to make and every "big picture" you try to paint is a Kremlin lie.

 

Assigning blame is a really important part of settling any conflict and preventing a future conflict.  If a gang of thugs begins to take over your property, and kills your family, and you call for help -- I'm certain you won't be satisfied with your prescription for Ukraine: "let them keep what they took, in the future you can't call for help, and no one is at fault here."

 

A reminder from before:  Feel free to show where I created a boogeyman out of Putin, or argued that he is going to go on to conquer all of Europe, and then the U.S.  And that I'm consciously arguing on behalf of "Anything to sway public opinion and continue the flow of money to the military complex and to those profiting from the corruption."  Because arguing in bad faith and making sh!t up is the norm for SOMEONE WHO IS DEFINITELY NOT A RUSSIA SUPPORTER, but I'll keep pointing it out.

16 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Vile lies.

Because you know, it's just absolutely impossible that the President of a country might want to do all he can to prevent the destruction of that same country.  The only explanation for Slavaboos is CoCaInE!  YaChTs!  WESTERN MSM!  WESTERN MIC!  BIIIIIIIIDEN!!!!!!!

 

And literally every single thing they say 1) originates in Kremlin agitprop and 2) is either false or is 1000x worse for the country of their allegiance, Russia.

17 hours ago, thesetat said:

Zelenski doesn't want peace. He wants more money and weapons and supplies. Next he will be asking foreign forces to join him in keeping the war at a stale mate. Jeez, as soon as the war is over there can be elections and Zelenski will be out in the cold. 

You're literally painting it as a bad thing that a country's president might ask for "money, weapons, supplies, foreign help" in trying to stave off the destruction of his country at the hands of a brutal, much more powerful invader.  🤣  Do you even realize how dumb that looks?  Your country of allegiance did the same thing when invaded by the 1940s version of themselves.  Was Stalin wrong in asking for help?

Translation:  WHY WON'T UKRAINE SURRENDER?

19 minutes ago, ChicagoExpat said:

You're literally painting it as a bad thing that a country's president might ask for "money, weapons, supplies, foreign help" is trying to stave off the destruction of his country at the hands of a brutal, much more powerful invader.  🤣  Do you even realize how dumb that looks?  Your country of allegiance, Russia, did the same thing when invaded by the 1940s version of themselves.  Was Stalin wrong in asking for help?

Translation:  WHY WON'T UKRAINE SURRENDER?

Let's assume it's only natural for Zelenskyy to ask for help. More money weapons, and supplies. That's totally understandable. Scam money out of whoever you can. That seems to be the game in that part of the world. But,  just because Zelenskyy asks for help doesn't mean the USA should be stupid enough to give it to him. Why waste money on a war that that can't be won?  What's the end game?

 

Let Ukraine deal with Russia however they want.  But the USA and its money and war materials need not be involved. The USA can no longer afford to be the world's policeman.  

1 minute ago, jas007 said:

Let's assume it's only natural for Zelenskyy to ask for help. More money weapons, and supplies. That's totally understandable. Scam money out of whoever you can. That seems to be the game in that part of the world. But,  just because Zelenskyy asks for help doesn't mean the USA should be stupid enough to give it to him. Why waste money on a war that that can't be won?  What's the end game?

 

Let Ukraine deal with Russia however they want.  But the USA and its money and war materials need not be involved. The USA can no longer afford to be the world's policeman.  

So let's point out the arguing in bad faith before the ink dries on this one.  You agree that it's natural for a President to try and prevent the destruction of his country at the hands of a brutal, fascist, more powerful invader but then go right to calling that a scam.

 

Always arguing in bad faith.  And a key part of your arguing in bad faith:  YOU'RE DEFINITELY NOT A RUSSIA SUPPORTER.

 

A reminder from before:  Feel free to show where I created a boogeyman out of Putin, or argued that he is going to go on to conquer all of Europe, and then the U.S.  And that I'm consciously arguing on behalf of "Anything to sway public opinion and continue the flow of money to the military complex and to those profiting from the corruption."  Because arguing in bad faith and making sh!t up is the norm for SOMEONE WHO IS DEFINITELY NOT A RUSSIA SUPPORTER, but I'll keep pointing it out.

 

 

17 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Putin doesn’t want peace.

He wants all of Ukraine. 

He wants to erase everything about Ukrainian identity including the people that refuse to be Slavic slaves of Russ.

Putin is a genocidal mass murdering war criminal. 

His soldiers are raping thieving and  child stealing and murdering.

To get him to ever negotiate you need to force him.

Of course Ukrainians will continue to fight.

It's their only hope of national survival.

They have no choice.

It's much more about people than land.

Ukraine would be willing to.give up some land for real security guarantees 

None are currently forthcoming.

 

 

TRUMP MUST STOP UKRAINE AID, if he wants PEACE

 

 

3 minutes ago, ChicagoExpat said:

So let's point out the arguing in bad faith before the ink dries on this one.  You agree that it's natural for a President to try and prevent the destruction of his country at the hands of a brutal, fascist, more powerful invader but then go right to calling that a scam.

 

Always arguing in bad faith.  And a key part of your arguing in bad faith:  YOU'RE DEFINITELY NOT A RUSSIA SUPPORTER.

 

A reminder from before:  Feel free to show where I created a boogeyman out of Putin, or argued that he is going to go on to conquer all of Europe, and then the U.S.  And that I'm consciously arguing on behalf of "Anything to sway public opinion and continue the flow of money to the military complex and to those profiting from the corruption."  Because arguing in bad faith and making sh!t up is the norm for SOMEONE WHO IS DEFINITELY NOT A RUSSIA SUPPORTER, but I'll keep pointing it out.

 

 

As for your "reminder from before"?  I explained my position. You either can't read or you simply don't want to understand.  Ii think that's called "denial."  To accept reality would conflict with your belief system. You're in denial.

 

As for arguing in "bad faith"? Where is the bad faith? Why would it be unreasonable for the USA to act in its own best interest?  That's an OK way to proceed for Ukraine, but if the USA acts in a similar fashion, that's not acceptable?  Sounds to me like narcissism. Gaslighting others is a common technique. A typical way of manipulating others to get what you want.  And here, Ukraine wants money, weapons, and material or whatever.   And they want the USA to ignore the fact that half the aid previously furnished was stolen. They want the USA to ignore the fact that Ukraine has already lost the war.  And with Trump's latest move, perhaps Zelenskyy succeed in his scam. Sad, but apparently true, unless Trump has some secret plan.  Apparently, the Neocon warmongers now control Trump.  

 

As I've pointed out more than once.  It's not a matter of being a "Russian supporter."  It's not an either/or proposition. I'm sure in your mind you would like that to be the case, but only because you're in denial and can't see the big picture.  

19 minutes ago, jas007 said:

As for your "reminder from before"?  I explained my position. You either can't read or you simply don't want to understand.  Ii think that's called "denial."  To accept reality would conflict with your belief system. You're in denial.

 

As for arguing in "bad faith"? Where is the bad faith? Why would it be unreasonable for the USA to act in its own best interest?  That's an OK way to proceed for Ukraine, but if the USA acts in a similar fashion, that's not acceptable?  Sounds to me like narcissism. Gaslighting others is a common technique. A typical way of manipulating others to get what you want.  And here, Ukraine wants money, weapons, and material or whatever.   And they want the USA to ignore the fact that half the aid previously furnished was stolen. They want the USA to ignore the fact that Ukraine has already lost the war.  And with Trump's latest move, perhaps Zelenskyy succeed in his scam. Sad, but apparently true, unless Trump has some secret plan.  Apparently, the Neocon warmongers now control Trump.  

 

As I've pointed out more than once.  It's not a matter of being a "Russian supporter."  It's not an either/or proposition. I'm sure in your mind you would like that to be the case, but only because you're in denial and can't see the big picture.  

You never explained why you attributed those positions to me that I have never advocated for.  That's arguing in bad faith.  Feel free to just admit you overreached.

 

More evidence of arguing in bad faith?  Accusing me of narcissism, gaslighting, and manipulation.  Sorry you don't like getting called out in a public forum by someone who knows much more about the subject, but the easy solution is to stop trying to defend the indefensible.

 

More arguing in bad faith?  Disguising the position from which you argue -- an extremely common tactic among Western Putin lovers.  Because to be seen as arguing from neutral position -- "just a regular guy calling it as I see it" -- rather than as someone who argues SOLELY from the exact lines Russia and its proxies use -- is an attempt to gain credibility you don't deserve.  So, yes, your dishonesty is completely relevant.

 

OK, let's move on with the claim that "Half the aid was stolen."  Go ahead and back that up -- specifically because you're claiming Zelenskiy stole it (you know how tricky those JOOOOS are...).

6 minutes ago, ChicagoExpat said:

OK, let's move on with the claim that "Half the aid was stolen."  Go ahead and back that up -- specifically because you're claiming Zelenskiy stole it (you know how tricky those JOOOOS are...).

Wasn't it Zelenskyy himself who said that half the aid supposedly furnished by the US was never received? To be sure, there was some question as to where the money went, but if Ukraine didn't receive it, where did it go? Who is lying? 

 

What is Zelenskyy's salary?  And if a full and complete audit were conducted of his bank accounts, how much do you think they would uncover?  What about the accounts of his entourage?  And if the money uncovered wasn't stolen, where did it come from?  The tooth fairy? 

 

As for your other assertions.  I refer you to my earlier posts. Apparently, you have a reading comprehension problem and you don't even understand why you think the way you do. 

54 minutes ago, Hakuna Matata said:

 

TRUMP MUST STOP UKRAINE AID, if he wants PEACE

 

 

Ridiculous. 

 

 

KRISTEN WELKER:

So you think you’re close to a deal? What will Russia have to give up? Because Ukraine, there’s been discussions they will have to give up some of the land that Russia’s illegally claimed. 

PRES. DONALD TRUMP:

Russia will have to give up all of Ukraine. Because that’s what they want. 

KRISTEN WELKER:

All of Ukraine? Meaning they wouldn’t keep any of the land that they have claimed? 

PRES. DONALD TRUMP:

No, no. Russia would have to give up all of Ukraine. Because what Russia wants is all of Ukraine. And if I didn’t get involved, they would be fighting right now for all of Ukraine. Russia doesn’t want the strip that they have now; Russia wants all of Ukraine. And if it weren’t me, they would keep going. Do you know that the European Union leaders have asked me to call Putin so many times? Because he doesn’t return their phone call. 

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/trump-administration/read-full-transcript-president-donald-trump-interviewed-meet-press-mod-rcna203514

5 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Ridiculous. 

And why is it ridiculous?  Because it doesn't comport with the narrative you want to be true?  

 

You should probably spend some time listening to seasoned military people, people with years of foreign policy experience, and to former CIA analysts. You might learn a thing or two.  

 

The war is a mess and there's no easy fix, at least for the USA. Of course, if the only objective is to enrich the military complex and the corrupt people who profit from more war, then by all means, let's have more war.  It's all a great game except for the thousands of kids will be killed for no good reason.