3 minutes ago, thesetat said:

So, i replied you and you refuse to google yourself. Then you twist the words into something else. I sent facts found in google about campaign promises kept. You instead twist it now into something else. End of discussion. 

No credit can be given to Trump, they cannot do it regardless.

Just now, CallumWK said:

 

Indeed, because it would mean, Trump didn't get a chance for a second term

 

The Dems already tried everthing to stop Trump, even assassination. If there had been sonthing there they'd have stopped him, time to let it go. You're embarrassing yourself

I was actually referring to politicians in general, worldwide,  but you seem to only be able to foucs on Trump due to your frothy derangement.

9 minutes ago, thesetat said:

So, i replied you and you refuse to google yourself. Then you twist the words into something else. I sent facts found in google about campaign promises kept. You instead twist it now into something else. End of discussion. 

 

I googled it myself, and his is my Google result. In short, you are delusional and have nothing.

 

https://apnews.com/projects/trump-campaign-promise-tracker/

 

 

1 minute ago, frank83628 said:

The Dems already tried everthing to stop Trump, even assassination.

 

You have any evidence of that?

 

2 minutes ago, frank83628 said:

I was actually referring to politicians in general, worldwide,  but you seem to only be able to foucs on Trump due to your frothy derangement.

 

Maybe because the topic in this case is Trump, and not politicians worldwide.

 

3 minutes ago, frank83628 said:

You're embarrassing yourself

 

I agree, you are doing that all the time

18 minutes ago, ChicagoExpat said:

Russia hasn't won the war.  Repeating it over and over again doesn't make it so.  I get that this is what you want, but it's simply not true in any sense.

Do you really believe that?  Anyway, what I believe doesn't matter. What you believe doesn't matter.

 

The reality will be played out in realtime, on the ground.  And in reality, and after three years of support from the USA and the EU, where is Ukraine now?  Begging for more help, with large parts of Ukraine already lost.  A nonsensical deal between Trump and Zelenskyy won't change that.  Thousands more young people might die for no good reason, but that's about it.  It's too bad.  Young people in the prime of their life, gone, because some people can't accept reality. 

19 minutes ago, CallumWK said:

 

You have any evidence of that?

 

 

Maybe because the topic in this case is Trump, and not politicians worldwide.

 

 

I agree, you are doing that all the time

The fact that the whole thing has been buried speaks volumes. 

 

It was generalisation, but I know you cannot let the Trump thing go.... he lives rent free in you head.

 

 

On 5/1/2025 at 7:49 AM, hotsun said:

You provided no links. I dont care about your opinion on anything

He's gone very quiet, should we get the police to do a welfare check.?

35 minutes ago, jas007 said:

Do you really believe that?  Anyway, what I believe doesn't matter. What you believe doesn't matter.

 

The reality will be played out in realtime, on the ground.  And in reality, and after three years of support from the USA and the EU, where is Ukraine now?  Begging for more help, with large parts of Ukraine already lost.  A nonsensical deal between Trump and Zelenskyy won't change that.  Thousands more young people might die for no good reason, but that's about it.  It's too bad.  Young people in the prime of their life, gone, because some people can't accept reality. 

Yes, I do.  Your interpretation of events is so bizarre, and reflects the continual redefining down of "victory" that Russia and its supporters have had to do to cope with reality.  Can you name a single war prior to this one where three years of grinding warfare (subsequent to two prior invasions) with marginal gains and ENORMOUS losses would be considered a war already won?  The original goal was to take all of Ukraine.  That didn't work out.  How is that de-Nazification going?  Well, turns out Ukraine wasn't a Nazi state after all, so that one is gone.  Another war aim as a corollary to the failure in 2014 -- keep Ukraine as a Russian vassal state, if it's not destroyed outright.  Another failure.

 

By any measure, Russians should be storming the Kremlin to hang Putin from a lamppost Mussolini-style.  3 invasions, a trillion dollars wasted, hundreds of thousands of lives, much of their navy/air force/armored forces.  Humiliating reliance on North Korea, China, and Iran.  For 20% of a country that had a fraction of their strength -- and nearly all of which they already held prior to the third invasion.

 

WINNING

On 5/1/2025 at 7:00 AM, Jingthing said:

The only good news I suppose is that Trump can sell this as a big win for him.

Without that any hope of continued U.S. -- Ukraine good relations would be finished.

In Trump's perverted view of the world, there are no mutually beneficial agreements, there needs to be a winner and a loser.

 

 

Or, to express it in the Games Theory terminology, it's a "Zero Sum Game".

1 hour ago, ChicagoExpat said:

Yes, I do.  Your interpretation of events is so bizarre, and reflects the continual redefining down of "victory" that Russia and its supporters have had to do to cope with reality.  Can you name a single war prior to this one where three years of grinding warfare (subsequent to two prior invasions) with marginal gains and ENORMOUS losses would be considered a war already won?  The original goal was to take all of Ukraine.  That didn't work out.  How is that de-Nazification going?  Well, turns out Ukraine wasn't a Nazi state after all, so that one is gone.  Another war aim as a corollary to the failure in 2014 -- keep Ukraine as a Russian vassal state, if it's not destroyed outright.  Another failure.

 

By any measure, Russians should be storming the Kremlin to hang Putin from a lamppost Mussolini-style.  3 invasions, a trillion dollars wasted, hundreds of thousands of lives, much of their navy/air force/armored forces.  Humiliating reliance on North Korea, China, and Iran.  For 20% of a country that had a fraction of their strength -- and nearly all of which they already held prior to the third invasion.

 

WINNING

"Marginal gains."  No Nazis in Ukraine?  LOL

 

What surprises me is how anyone who actually supports Ukraine is OK with a US proxy war in which Ukrainians die to the last Ukrainian for a bunch of Neocon nutcases who couldn't care less about Ukraine, Ukrainians, or Ukrainian "democracy." 

 

What you're going to end up with is no Ukraine at all and thousands of more dead Ukrainian kids.  

3 minutes ago, ThreeCardMonte said:

Was unaware your a Russian linguist.  I was correct in my assessment.

Waste of time.

Bye.

1 hour ago, jas007 said:

"Marginal gains."  No Nazis in Ukraine?  LOL

 

What surprises me is how anyone who actually supports Ukraine is OK with a US proxy war in which Ukrainians die to the last Ukrainian for a bunch of Neocon nutcases who couldn't care less about Ukraine, Ukrainians, or Ukrainian "democracy." 

 

What you're going to end up with is no Ukraine at all and thousands of more dead Ukrainian kids.  

Yes, marginal gains -- you must be unfamiliar with the battlefield map.  At this rate Ukraine will fall by 2060.  LOL

 

I said "Nazi state"  -- dishonesty is an ugly look, even for a Putinite.  Yes, there are those who use Nazi symbolism in Ukraine, but those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.  Clean up Rusich and Wagner and then preen and prance.  You know Russia's claim of a Nazi state was a lie so you, in turn lie about what I said.

 

Again -- more Kremlin agitprop.  It's not a "US proxy war."  It's Russia's third invasion of Ukraine, and Ukraine is fighting back.  Its allies assist.  Was World War 2 a "US proxy war" when the U.S. was giving Russia (and others) enormous amounts of war material?

And, finally, I'm glad you admit Russia intentionally targets not only civilians but kids.

 

Tell me more about how this war not only will be won by Russia but ALREADY HAS BEEN WON by Russia.

 

If you'd like to turn down the sarcasm, we can return to a more serious conversation.  Tell me what "winning" means for Russia, and why you think Russia has already won.  I'll argue with you, but if you use actual fact-based arguments maybe we'll respect your effort.  And I'm always willing to take into account something I didn't already know.

1 hour ago, ThreeCardMonte said:

Was referring to Jinthing .  
 

Reading comprehension not a priority in Chicago public schools?

 

I’ll give Mayor Richard Daily credit where credit is due.

Hilarious -- you start insulting him for getting a commenter wrong and then you do the same.  He's Callum, not me.

2 minutes ago, ChicagoExpat said:

Yes, marginal gains -- you must be unfamiliar with the battlefield map.  At this rate Ukraine will fall by 2060.  LOL

 

I said "Nazi state"  -- dishonesty is an ugly look, even for a Putinite.  Yes, there are those who use Nazi symbolism in Ukraine, but those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.  Clean up Rusich and Wagner and then preen and prance.  You know Russia's claim of a Nazi state was a lie so you, in turn lie about what I said.

 

Again -- more Kremlin agitprop.  It's not a "US proxy war."  It's Russia's third invasion of Ukraine, and Ukraine is fighting back.  Its allies assist.  Was World War 2 a "US proxy war" when the U.S. was giving Russia (and others) enormous amounts of war material?

And, finally, I'm glad you admit Russia intentionally targets not only civilians but kids.

 

Tell me more about how this war not only will be won by Russia but ALREADY HAS BEEN WON by Russia.

 

If you'd like to turn down the sarcasm, we can return to a more serious conversation.  Tell me what "winning" means for Russia, and why you think Russia has already won.  I'll argue with you, but if you use actual fact-based arguments maybe we'll respect your effort.  And I'm always willing to take into account something I didn't already know.

I'm not Ukrainian. I've never lived in Ukraine. I've never even visited Ukraine.  But I'm pretty sure Russia could overrun the entire country if that's what they wanted to do.  But they don't.  To think they do is silly.  Nor do they want to continue on and re-establish the old Soviet Union or occupy all of Europe.  The old Soviet Union went bankrupt trying to hold it all together.  They won't try that again. 

 

As I understand it, Russia's primary concern is to establish a situation whereby they have a neutral buffer zone with no possibility of NATO missiles and no possibility of any other kind of foreign missiles on the Russian border.  Putin has been saying that for years.  And it makes sense.  Short and intermediate range missiles give their enemy an advantage, as  parts of Russia's strategic defense systems would be compromised. 

 

So that's one of their objectives.

 

In addition, they want a "de-Nazification" of Ukraine.  I guess they've had enough of those people over the years.  They still remember Hitler.  They won't let that happen again.  Makes sense to me. 

 

And they want the international community to recognize the fact that parts of what used to be Ukraine are now Russian.  Reality.  Ukraine won't get that territory back. 

 

Give them that, stop the war, and stop the killing.  That's the best Ukraine can expect, I'm afraid.  

 

Or do you think we should have to have WW III because Russia won and the world isn't fair? 

5 hours ago, thesetat said:

President Zelenskyy said any mineral exploitation by the US would need to be tied to security guarantees for Ukraine that would deter future Russian aggression. He wanted the guarantees about it to be included in the deal on paper. Trump refused. Then, Trump threw Zelenski when he came to sign the deal, out of the WH because he came to the WH to sign the deal but instead used the publicly displayed meeting to sign as his own shouting match with Trump shouting with Trump and arguing with him rather than signing the deal which was his reason for being there. 

Funny how the trumpeteers can put different spins on the same scenario.

The first deal was nothing more than a manipulated surrender.

Another win for Zelenski (breaking news)

23 minutes ago, jas007 said:

I'm not Ukrainian. I've never lived in Ukraine. I've never even visited Ukraine.  But I'm pretty sure Russia could overrun the entire country if that's what they wanted to do.  But they don't.  To think they do is silly.  Nor do they want to continue on and re-establish the old Soviet Union or occupy all of Europe.  The old Soviet Union went bankrupt trying to hold it all together.  They won't try that again. 

 

As I understand it, Russia's primary concern is to establish a situation whereby they have a neutral buffer zone with no possibility of NATO missiles and no possibility of any other kind of foreign missiles on the Russian border.  Putin has been saying that for years.  And it makes sense.  Short and intermediate range missiles give their enemy an advantage, as  parts of Russia's strategic defense systems would be compromised. 

 

So that's one of their objectives.

 

In addition, they want a "de-Nazification" of Ukraine.  I guess they've had enough of those people over the years.  They still remember Hitler.  They won't let that happen again.  Makes sense to me. 

 

And they want the international community to recognize the fact that parts of what used to be Ukraine are now Russian.  Reality.  Ukraine won't get that territory back. 

 

Give them that, stop the war, and stop the killing.  That's the best Ukraine can expect, I'm afraid.  

 

Or do you think we should have to have WW III because Russia won and the world isn't fair? 

I'd refer you to the start of the war, where Russia poured in over the entire Russian and Belarusian border in an attempt to take Kyiv.  It seems you're not familiar with the war's first year or so -- it might be a good thing to study as you're obviously very interested in the topic.  Yes, Russia DOES (or did) want to take the entire country and the current disaster is what they have to settle for.  No one denies this was Russia's original goal, including Russia.  And you're claiming they COULD overrun all of Ukraine... but are settling for a costly stalemate?  Sorry, that doesn't make sense.

 

I know you think Russia is entitled to use other countries as buffer zones -- same as the Soviets -- even if against their will, but those same countries have the right NOT to be Russian vassal states.

 

Again, the Nazi thing is a silly and transparently false pretext.  Everyone knows that some unit did use some Nazi symbolism, a few still do.  But that's entirely different than a "Nazi state", which is the claim.  And just as important -- as I mentioned, Russia has even more of this stuff than Ukraine does.  I already mentioned Rusich and Wagner.

 

It might be that Ukraine won't eventually get its territory back.  But that would be part of a negotiated settlement in which Russia gives up some of its claims.

 

Finally, the only people that claim this might become WW3 are Russia and their supporters.  The threat -- both implicit and explicit -- don't resist us because who knows where this might end up.  It's nonsense.  If WW34 starts from this, the fault will be entirely Russia's -- and those in the West who carried their water for them.

33 minutes ago, ThreeCardMonte said:

True.  Lefties all look and sound alike.

Love it!  Hey everyone look at me, I'm a LEFTY!!!!!  🤡🤣🏆

5 hours ago, frank83628 said:

Regardless of the 24hours, he is still trying to end the war, which would not have happened had the warmongers puppet Harris won, I think the situation would have escalated rapidly. 

Zman got all gobby in the WH the first time and ruined that deal, then brought Crimea into the mix which is a big 'no' for Russia, so it seems Z man is purposely prolonging things, probably under fear of death

The Trump mentality,  "a big 'no' for Russia," equates to surrender for Ukraine.

 

If countries have a dispute over territorial rights there are pathways to resolution, occupation by force should not be one of them.

Of course it is no surprise the US is in favour of taking what it wants by force.

Remind us, what was said about Greenland.

5 minutes ago, sandyf said:

The Trump mentality,  "a big 'no' for Russia," equates to surrender for Ukraine.

 

If countries have a dispute over territorial rights there are pathways to resolution, occupation by force should not be one of them.

Of course it is no surprise the US is in favour of taking what it wants by force.

Remind us, what was said about Greenland.

Good idea, but how far back to go,

India back to the Raj

USA back to the native Americans 

Australia back to the aborigines 

NZ back to the Maori 

Israel back to the Palestinians 

And many more that don't immediately come to mind.

 

Give us a date and then justify your choice!

44 minutes ago, jas007 said:

As I understand it, Russia's primary concern is to establish a situation whereby they have a neutral buffer zone with no possibility of NATO missiles and no possibility of any other kind of foreign missiles on the Russian border.

So you are saying that policy will be extended to Finland and it will also be invaded by Russia.

3 minutes ago, sandyf said:

The Trump mentality,  "a big 'no' for Russia," equates to surrender for Ukraine.

 

If countries have a dispute over territorial rights there are pathways to resolution, occupation by force should not be one of them.

Of course it is no surprise the US is in favour of taking what it wants by force.

Remind us, what was said about Greenland.

 The war has been lost for Ukraine for a long time, but you only found out since trump and cannot process that fact, the only thing propping them up was the backing of the USA and military aid.

They have realised they cannot win, youre  calling it surrender because you have cold war, Hollywood movie mind set, its called being realistic, continue and more Ukrainians perish, and Ukraine has more debt.

 

7 minutes ago, sandyf said:

The Trump mentality,  "a big 'no' for Russia," equates to surrender for Ukraine.

 

If countries have a dispute over territorial rights there are pathways to resolution, occupation by force should not be one of them.

Of course it is no surprise the US is in favour of taking what it wants by force.

Remind us, what was said about Greenland.

Of course, pretty much every territorial nation state on Planet Earth was established by way of force.  You  might be able to find one or two that weren't, but that's not the way the world works.  

4 minutes ago, sandyf said:

So you are saying that policy will be extended to Finland and it will also be invaded by Russia.

Right now, Finland is not a focus for Russia.  And for what it's worth, Finland probably knows better than to allow missiles to be installed on its territory.  Like it or not, they're probably neutral territory. 

4 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Good idea, but how far back to go,

India back to the Raj

USA back to the native Americans 

Australia back to the aborigines 

NZ back to the Maori 

Israel back to the Palestinians 

You have highlighted how over the years indiginous peoples were beaten into submission to such an extent they do not have any say. Some should remember where they came from when running down Europe.

Ukraine however does have a voice which should be heard.

There is something like 63 countries that have negotiated severence from dominence by Westminster over the years.

 

2 minutes ago, sandyf said:

You have highlighted how over the years indiginous peoples were beaten into submission to such an extent they do not have any say. Some should remember where they came from when running down Europe.

Ukraine however does have a voice which should be heard.

There is something like 63 countries that have negotiated severence from dominence by Westminster over the years.

 

Severance from Westminster does not equate to returning land to its original owners.

19 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

 

Israel back to the Palestinians 

 

 

  Judea/West bank and Gaza back to the Jews

13 minutes ago, jas007 said:

Of course, pretty much every territorial nation state on Planet Earth was established by way of force.  You  might be able to find one or two that weren't, but that's not the way the world works.  

It is a sad state of affairs when countries that claim to be civilised are not prepared to move away from that.

But then Americans have never really seen the cost of war on their own soil.

1 minute ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

  Judea/West bank and Gaza back to the Jews

Ok, so you choose Roman times as the date.

Which would mean returning most of northern Europe to the descendents of the Germanic tribes. I'd be happy to support that idea, as I am one of those people.

Just now, sandyf said:

It is a sad state of affairs when countries that claim to be civilised are not prepared to move away from that.

But then Americans have never really seen the cost of war on their own soil.

Tell that to the native Americans!