23 hours ago, Yagoda said:

English is not your first language

So what's your excuse?

3 minutes ago, BLMFem said:

So what's your excuse?

Awesome. You managed to reinforce that you are a troll, stalker and flamer  in one stupid playground post.

2 minutes ago, Yagoda said:

Really? Which one do you dispute? Hey do you dispute that Odessa was a Russian city?

 

Oh how cute. Hey, you know anything about the history of Crimea?

 

Im into the truth, you are into invective. 

 

Looks like you are a stalker too. Want to follow me in IG?

I really love your diatribes Genrikh. You're into truth like a cockroach is into дерьмо.

 

And yes, in fact I know a lot of history of Ukraine. Did you know that Kiev was established by Swedish Vikings and Rus has no connotation to Russia. It is the name given to the Vikings at that time. Meaning Sweden in Finnish (derived from the word Ruotsi), or rowing as the Vikings mostly rowed their ships on the river. And Crimea was an independent kingdom, later forcibly annexed by the imperialistic Russia.

Did you know that northern Ukraine (Lviv) was part of Poland before the WW2. 

Did you know that Paris was actually German for a couple of years. And the Palestine part of the Ottoman Empire, later British Empire?

Your country didn't belong to anybody until you colonized. 

 

Wanna slug it at world history? Go ahead, make my millennium.

 

I have said it before. When Kiev Rus was a thriving trading kingdom on the Dnieper, Moscow was just a pigsty and four huts...

34 minutes ago, Yagoda said:

Hi troll, spinning your inability to debate LOL. Keep spewing, its worth it for the fact that it shows what a troll you are.

 

 

You're nothing if not predictable. Now, predictability is good if you're a public bus but not if you're debating. As I've said before, when cornered you invariable start crying "stalker", "troll", "deflection", "irrelevant", "flamer". That's when we know that you know you've been beaten.

So, so predictable.😄

2 minutes ago, BLMFem said:

You're nothing if not predictable. Now, predictability is good if you're a public bus but not if you're debating. As I've said before, when cornered you invariable start crying "stalker", "troll", "deflection", "irrelevant". That's when we know that you know you've been beaten.

So, so predictable.😄

Still nothing to contest the facts set forth hahahahahahahah. What a true loser you are 

10 minutes ago, SpaceKadet said:

When Kiev Rus was a thriving trading kingdom on the Dnieper,

But the Kievan Rus wasnt Ukraine was it? 

 

PS dont be like others here and spew an AI answer. They lack nuance.

4 minutes ago, Yagoda said:

Still nothing to contest the facts set forth hahahahahahahah. What a true loser you are 

ukraine history timeline - Search

34 minutes ago, Yagoda said:

Still nothing to contest the facts set forth hahahahahahahah. What a true loser you are 

Give it a rest, buddy. You've been well and truly beaten so your best course of action is probably to go somewhere private and "de-eggyfy".

And ease up on the name calling, okay? Because a person in your position should really not cast any stones at all, if you know what I mean.😉

1 minute ago, BLMFem said:

Because a person in your position should really not cast any stones at all, if you know what I mean.😉

No, I dont. Tell us stalker troll, or add cowardice to the words we describe you with

1 minute ago, Yagoda said:

No, I dont. Tell us stalker troll, or add cowardice to the words we describe you with

We? How many voices are there in your head?

34 minutes ago, Yagoda said:

But the Kievan Rus wasnt Ukraine was it? 

 

PS dont be like others here and spew an AI answer. They lack nuance.

Just a thousand year old verified history that your propaganda source disputes.

 

Honestly Genrikh, as much fun as it's been to rattle your cage, I don't really give a big F what you believe in and where your disinformation comes from.

For all I know, you might be one of the Flat Earthers that has been molested as a young child by the visiting aliens and that scrambled your two neurons. How's that for Ad Hominem?

 

You are just way above by boredom threshold by now. No need to discuss more.

 

 

3 minutes ago, SpaceKadet said:

Just a thousand year old verified history that your propaganda source disputes.

 

What does he get wrong, you never have told us

 

4 minutes ago, SpaceKadet said:

Honestly Genrikh, as much fun as it's been to rattle your cage, I don't really give a big F what you believe in and where your disinformation comes from.

Yet you will just continue to spew, thereby demonstrating your ignorance.

 

5 minutes ago, SpaceKadet said:

For all I know, you might be one of the Flat Earthers that has been molested as a young child by the visiting aliens and that scrambled your two neurons. How's that for Ad Hominem?

 

Interesting commentabout child molestation. Projection? Are you in favour of the transgender agenda?

 

6 minutes ago, SpaceKadet said:

You are just way above by boredom threshold by now. No need to discuss more.

Fair enough, You have never addressed the issues anyway. Bye, loser.

In this heated debate, something got lost. In the Crimea as well as in currently occupied Eastern Ukraine people speak Russian, not Ukrainian.

 

Many things that keep a Nation together, but it's mainly the language. For the Eastern Ukraine, it might be a "coming-home event", of course not approved by Kiev.

 

1 hour ago, swissie said:

In this heated debate, something got lost. In the Crimea as well as in currently occupied Eastern Ukraine people speak Russian, not Ukrainian.

 

Many things that keep a Nation together, but it's mainly the language. For the Eastern Ukraine, it might be a "coming-home event", of course not approved by Kiev.

 

You have never considered that when Soviet took over Ukraine after WW2, they immediately force resettled many Russian families. That's their modus operandi. Just like they did in the Baltic Republics. Gives them a pretext to deploy military to "protect the native Russian population". Just watch what they are gonna do in the Baltics in a few years. And, of course, Kaliningrad that was German until Soviets took it over, is fully Russian now.

Putin apologists out in force, usual names defending mass murder. Back in the day, they'd be called Quislings. Quisling and Joyce were dealt with.

On 6/29/2025 at 9:33 AM, swissie said:

In this heated debate, something got lost. In the Crimea as well as in currently occupied Eastern Ukraine people speak Russian, not Ukrainian.

And the Polish speaking areas?

 

16 hours ago, MicroB said:

Putin apologists out in force, usual names defending mass murder.

Historical truth sucks some time, huh?

 

Anyone manly enough to debate the issues in the OP LOL?

6 hours ago, Yagoda said:

Anyone manly enough to debate the issues in the OP LOL?

 

Ok, I will bite. I would of course expect a similar well arguedessay from yourself as to why you believe Dr Markovsky, ie evidence that you have independantly verified his claims and interpretations. If you don't, I will conclude that you are not "manly", and therefore are effeminate (since this is how you view the world).

 

Markovsky basically attempts to question the legitimacy of Ukraine as a sovereign nation, contending that Ukraine was artificially constructed, largely due to the actions of Lenin, Stalin, Hitler and others, and suggests that its future is uncertain, possibly destined to fragment and be subsumed by its neighbouring powers.

 

But he overlooks key historical facts and the profound realities of Ukraine’s identity, sovereignty, and resilience. His argument is deeply reductionist, because he brazenly ignores a 1000 years of history  in order to fit his Russophile world view (your academic hero is a 81 year old Professor of Marxism, who contends that America has adopted Bolshevik principles and never defeated Communism, and has frequently defended Putin).

 

Ukraine’s history can be traced back to the Kievan Rus, which emerged in the 9th century, which laid the foundation for the modern Ukrainian identity. To decry that is to question the legitimacy of the United Kingdom, because Boudica was a long time ago.

 

The Ukrainian people have long inhabited the lands that make up today’s Ukraine, with a distinct language, culture, and identity that predates both Soviet and Nazi interventions. The idea that Ukraine’s sovereignty is merely the result of 20th-century political machinations disregards this long history of Ukrainian statehood, language, and culture.

 

Your Marxist hero's critique hinges heavily on the Soviet legacy, particularly the role of Lenin and Stalin in the formation of the Ukrainian SSR. Ukraine's post-Soviet independence was not a mere continuation of Soviet designs. Many Ukrainians have long resisted Soviet domination, particularly during the Holodomor, a man-made famine orchestrated by Stalin that killed millions of Ukrainians, and during the mass purges that targeted Ukrainian intellectuals and nationalists.

 

Ukraine's aspirations for independence existed long before the collapse of the Soviet Union. The Ukrainian People's Republic is evidence enough of  early effort toward independence in the moden era, even if that movement was ultimately crushed by your Hero's Bolshevik forces. The persistent desire for sovereignty persisted throughout the Soviet era, culminating in the 1991 independence referendum, where over 90% of Ukrainians voted in favor of independence, a clear rejection of Soviet rule. Your own country rejected British Rule; are you saying the United States of America is not a legitimate country? Are you now suggesting the Republic of Ireland has no legitimacy? Taiwan has no legitmacy? Israel has no legitimacy. I hadn't taken you as someone who was anti-Jewish. Well well.

 

Markovsky’s inclusion of Hitler in the formation of Ukraine’s national identity is both misleading and problematic. The Ukrainian Insurgent Army fought against both Nazi and Soviet forces in a quest for Ukrainian independence. The idea that Ukraine owes its existence to Nazi Germany ignores the fact that the Ukrainian people, like many others in Eastern Europe, were victims of Nazi imperialism.

 

Further, after the war, the Soviet Union effectively reasserted its control over Ukraine, quashing any attempts at full autonomy. To suggest that Ukraine’s modern identity owes anything to the Nazis is not only historically inaccurate but offensive to the millions of Ukrainians who suffered under Nazi occupation and later under Soviet rule.

 

One of the key flaws in the effing Commie's argument is the suggestion that Ukraine’s sovereignty is fragile and destined to fragment into neighboring countries. Your Bolshevik Best Friend overlooks the 2014 EuroMaiden and the subsequent Revolution of Dignity. 

 

These protests were not orchestrated by foreign powers but were a direct expression of the will of the Ukrainian people to forge their own path. Commies try and say otherwise. When did you stop being a Commie?

 

Moreover, Ukraine has faced unprecedented challenges in recent years, particularly with Russia’s annexation of Crimea and its ongoing military aggression in eastern Ukraine. Yet, despite the ongoing conflict, Ukraine has not only preserved its sovereignty but has also strengthened its identity as a nation. Far from fragmenting, Ukraine has exhibited remarkable unity and a strong sense of national identity. Thus this Markovsky tosser is a loser.

 

Markovsky’s claim that Ukraine will eventually fragment and be absorbed by neighboring countries neglects the powerful dynamics of national identity and the geopolitical landscape. The people of Ukraine have decisively rejected Russian attempts at subjugation, and the country’s strong desire for integration into the broader European community, not to fragment or regress into a subordinate state.

 

Your Commie loving hero's aarticle offers a narrow and historically inaccurate interpretation of Ukraine’s formation and future. Ukraine is not merely a creation of 20th-century authoritarian regimes; it is a nation with deep historical roots and a strong, resilient identity.

 

So, go ahead. Why do you think a Commie is correct? Why are you reading Commie articles? Who is sending you obscure commie articles? When did you stop believing in Bolshevism?

 

I predict you are a melt.

38 minutes ago, MicroB said:

Markovsky basically attempts to question the legitimacy of Ukraine as a sovereign nation, contending that Ukraine was artificially constructed, largely due to the actions of Lenin, Stalin, Hitler and others,

Who constructed Ukraine then?

 

38 minutes ago, MicroB said:

Ukraine’s history can be traced back to the Kievan Rus,

So can Russias. Show us a distinct independent Ukraine. 

 

38 minutes ago, MicroB said:

he idea that Ukraine’s sovereignty is merely the result of 20th-century political machinations disregards this long history of Ukrainian statehood, language, and culture.

Facts. where are the facts. Thats a conclusion. Show us the long history of Ukrainian statehood.

 

 

38 minutes ago, MicroB said:

Markovsky’s inclusion of Hitler in the formation of Ukraine’s national identity is both misleading and problematic. The Ukrainian Insurgent Army fought against both Nazi and Soviet forces in a quest for Ukrainian independence. The idea that Ukraine owes its existence to Nazi Germany ignores the fact that the Ukrainian people, like many others in Eastern Europe, were victims of Nazi imperialism.

Baba Yar. 

 

38 minutes ago, MicroB said:

Many Ukrainians have long resisted Soviet domination, particularly during the Holodomor, a man-made famine orchestrated by Stalin that killed millions of Ukrainians, and during the mass purges that targeted Ukrainian intellectuals and nationalists.

Kruschev was Ukrainian, so was Kaganovich...oh thats right he was Jewish they dont count

 

38 minutes ago, MicroB said:

To suggest that Ukraine’s modern identity owes anything to the Nazis is not only historically inaccurate but offensive to the millions of Ukrainians who suffered under Nazi occupation and later under Soviet rule.

Got it. Conclusions that ignores facts.

 

Your diatribe sets forth no facts to dispute the OP

On 6/28/2025 at 3:41 PM, SpaceKadet said:

Ukraine is not a country, just like Israel and Kuwait is not a country.

Well, Israel and Kuwait did exist as a result of the last world war. Ukraine did not. This is the difference.

2 hours ago, zmisha said:

Well, Israel and Kuwait did exist as a result of the last world war. Ukraine did not. This is the difference.

I think you should just read my following posts.

Basically, I'm saying that if Ukraine is not a country and by definition an autonomous state, it's the same as saying, that, by the same token, Israel or Kuwait is not a country, which they are.

 

I know that I confused many, especially non native English speakers with my use of sarcasm and irony in one short sentence. Apologies to all for using proper English.

 

But, to be honest, Israel did not exist as a country and an autonomous state prior to 1948.... and the land that it exists on was given to the Jews by the allied powers as a kind of retribution for all their "sufferings" during the WW2 , and belonged to Palestine. Let's face it, the victors make the rules....

43 minutes ago, SpaceKadet said:

But, to be honest, Israel did not exist as a country and an autonomous state prior to 1948.... and the land that it exists on was given to the Jews by the allied powers as a kind of retribution for all their "sufferings" during the WW2 , and belonged to Palestine. Let's face it, the victors make the rules....

Israel was allowed to exist as a result of the last WW. It does not matter what happened with this land before the last WW.

Similarly, when you buy a car or a house, only the last owner matters. If someone say to you that he owned this car 20 years ago and so he want to use it now - you should simply ignore this.

50 minutes ago, SpaceKadet said:

Let's face it, the victors make the rules....

Exactly! The victors of the last WW

On 6/27/2025 at 9:58 AM, Yagoda said:

According to this historian, who makes a compelling case for the same, although I think he minimizes the existence of the Kingdom of Galicia and Lodomercia as a dominated entity.

 

https://www.realcleardefense.com/articles/2025/06/27/ukraine__a_nation_established_by_lenin_stalin_and_hitler_1119235.html

 

Putin is scum, but is his cause just?

Putin's cause is not just, it's criminal.  The USSR dissolved in 1991, and Ukraine became an independent country recognized by the rest of the world. 

10 minutes ago, zmisha said:

Israel was allowed to exist as a result of the last WW. It does not matter what happened with this land before the last WW.

Similarly, when you buy a car or a house, only the last owner matters. If someone say to you that he owned this car 20 years ago and so he want to use it now - you should simply ignore this.

Well, I have to disagree with you on that. 

And you're contradicting yourself. If only the last owner matters, then Ukraine is a legitimate country and an autonomous state. Russia doesn't have a claim there.

5 minutes ago, SpaceKadet said:

Well, I have to disagree with you on that. 

And you're contradicting yourself. If only the last owner matters, then Ukraine is a legitimate country and an autonomous state. Russia doesn't have a claim there.

The last owner explained to Ukraine that the ownership was on condition of neutrality. The condition was violated - therefore the ownership was cancelled. And the rightful owner - the brave guy Vlad came to take his own.

1 hour ago, zmisha said:

The last owner explained to Ukraine that the ownership was on condition of neutrality.

I don't believe I'm reading this... "owner"? How can anybody own a country? And do you seriously believe that Putin can "own" or has any right to own Ukraine? Go and read up on your history and Budapest accord of 1994.

Well, all the worlds countries apart from one recognize Ukraine as a country. But 28 world countries do not recognize Israel.

So, tell me Misha, who owns Israel?

 

52 minutes ago, SpaceKadet said:

I don't believe I'm reading this... "owner"? How can anybody own a country?

You are right - nobody can own a country. Ownership is about land. So, Vlad has come for the land which belongs to Russians according to the results of the last WW.

21 minutes ago, zmisha said:

You are right - nobody can own a country. Ownership is about land. So, Vlad has come for the land which belongs to Russians according to the results of the last WW.

Not much to discuss with you.... would you like to know the list of the countries that changed their borders because of WW2?

Are you, by any chance, a Russian 5 cent blogger?

Just now, SpaceKadet said:

Not much to discuss with you.... would you like to know the list of the countries that changed their borders because of WW2?

Are, by any chance, a Russian 5 cent blogger?

Ukraine was independent for about 70 years if I'm not mistaken. With 0 territory. Because all the land belonged to the winner of the Second World War, Russia, which was then called the USSR. In the early 1990s, Ukraine, which had been an independent country in the UN for about 50 years, once again declared its independence. Journalists around the world for some reason began to tell their citizens that this meant leaving the Soviet Union. Why did they decide this? Nobody knows. If, for example, France declares tomorrow that it is independent, does this mean leaving NATO? Obviously not.

3 hours ago, TedG said:

The USSR dissolved in 1991, 

Well, Vlad supporters strongly disagree with you. Who decided to dissolve USSR? Was this person authorized to do so according to the law?
Btw, the renamed USSR still exists in the UN security council.