https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/experts-hate-trump-s-war-on-iran-they-re-making-seven-fatal-errors/ar-AA1ZoAa7?ocid=hpmsn&cvid=69c57c9f1dc242a2a10d661b6da23d5e&ei=19

"What is wrong with the West’s expert class? Do they really believe, as they keep telling us, that the war against Iran is a disaster, the end of days, the final humiliation for Donald Trump? Such defeatism, such catastrophism are not warranted. It is far too soon to conclude how this war will end, regardless of what Iranian propagandists and other appeasers would have us believe."

Again, as with most of the other limited number of opinion pieces I start topics with, no one here will be able to dispute the assertions therein, so expect the usual Iran/China agitprop with the boring old anti american anti trump anti semitic trolling from the usual suspects.

Error 7

Last, why does the bien-pensant Left not care about the human rights of the oppressed Iranian people? Why do they sound almost gleeful that the regime hasn’t fallen?

There was this headline BBC: Total repression and air strikes bring unrelenting dread for Iranians

18 March 2026

Many people are hoping for a more modern regime in Iran -- but the locals are hoping, when it's all over, Tehran doesn't look like Nagasaki

BTW the author is the editor of the right-wing Telegraph who leaked the BBC editing of the Trump doc the subject of Trump's $10 billion lawsuit.

BTW2 the article used the term 'clouding “expert” judgments' -- the word 'lies' as in untruths is courtesy the OP.

Take2 -- Error 4 Iran’s (remaining) leaders are depicted as brilliant strategists,

I am not qualified to dispute either opinion but this via AI Gemini from MiddleEastEye.net:

The depiction of Iran's remaining leadership as "brilliant strategists" has primarily been attributed to Sir Alex Younger, the former head of Britain's MI6.

In a March 2026 interview with The Economist, Younger analyzed the ongoing conflict (Operation Epic Fury/Absolute Resolve), noting that the Iranian regime has proven far more resilient than Western intelligence anticipated.

He specifically highlighted their tactical foresight in dispersing military assets and delegating command authority as early as June 2025—moves that allowed them to maintain operational capability despite the intense U.S.-Israeli air campaign.

84th wave of misisles incoming - what was destroyed again ?

1 hour ago, JerryM said:

Error 7

Last, why does the bien-pensant Left not care about the human rights of the oppressed Iranian people? Why do they sound almost gleeful that the regime hasn’t fallen?

There was this headline BBC: Total repression and air strikes bring unrelenting dread for Iranians

18 March 2026

Many people are hoping for a more modern regime in Iran -- but the locals are hoping, when it's all over, Tehran doesn't look like Nagasaki

BTW the author is the editor of the right-wing Telegraph who leaked the BBC editing of the Trump doc the subject of Trump's $10 billion lawsuit.

BTW2 the article used the term 'clouding “expert” judgments' -- the word 'lies' as in untruths is courtesy the OP.

So one BBC article equals caring? The elite arent magnifying Iranian agitprop either? Oh I got itm its the author thats a wrongthinker

46 minutes ago, JerryM said:

Take2 -- Error 4 Iran’s (remaining) leaders are depicted as brilliant strategists,

I am not qualified to dispute either opinion but this via AI Gemini from MiddleEastEye.net:

The depiction of Iran's remaining leadership as "brilliant strategists" has primarily been attributed to Sir Alex Younger, the former head of Britain's MI6.

In a March 2026 interview with The Economist, Younger analyzed the ongoing conflict (Operation Epic Fury/Absolute Resolve), noting that the Iranian regime has proven far more resilient than Western intelligence anticipated.

He specifically highlighted their tactical foresight in dispersing military assets and delegating command authority as early as June 2025—moves that allowed them to maintain operational capability despite the intense U.S.-Israeli air campaign.

You error is searching for that exact phrase, that isnt what he said.

He meant something like this

https://www.foreignaffairs.com/iran/irans-long-game

11 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

84th wave of misisles incoming - what was destroyed again ?

What did they hit? How many got through? LOL, living in dreamworld I see

5 minutes ago, Yagoda said:

You error is searching for that exact phrase, that isnt what he said.

"brilliant strategists" was the term used by Error 4 in your OP.

20 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

84th wave of misisles incoming - what was destroyed again ?

Nothing important. The US is fighting WW II style. Iran is/will be fighting guerilla style. Didn't the US learn anything in Vietnam?

8 minutes ago, JerryM said:

"brilliant strategists" was the term used by Error 4 in your OP.

Your parsing

2 minutes ago, gargamon said:

The US is fighting WW II style. Iran is/will be fighting guerilla style. Didn't the US learn anything in Vietnam?

Yeah we did. Keep bombing.

We arent going to fight WW2 style. Warfare has changed.

4 minutes ago, Yagoda said:

Your parsing

Yeah we did. Keep bombing.

We arent going to fight WW2 style. Warfare has changed.

Yeah the bombing was so successful in Vietnam. No wonder you lost that one.

3 hours ago, Yagoda said:

Again, as with most of the other limited number of opinion pieces I start topics with, no one here will be able to dispute the assertions therein,

With apologies to Etta James and others:

Dispute me, baby

Dispute me all night long

Dispute me, baby

What more can I say

I know I'm IN-disputable

But knock yourself out anyway

45 minutes ago, gargamon said:

Yeah the bombing was so successful in Vietnam. No wonder you lost that one.

Different war, different technology, different leaders, different enemy, different geography

39 minutes ago, Yagoda said:

Different war, different technology, different leaders, different enemy, different geography

same sh?t, different day

3 hours ago, Yagoda said:

What did they hit? How many got through? LOL, living in dreamworld I see

It's been reported that US bases in several gulf countries are virtually empty,

with soldiers been billeted in local hotels ...

regards worgeordie

10 minutes ago, cdemundo said:

"limited number of opinion pieces I start topics with"

When will the limit be reached?

I, for one, am ready for them to end.

His Dispute This is just a variation on the late Charlie Kirk's Prove Me Wrong that stipulates everything he posts like from VD Hansen or the Telegraph editor is right just because he says so.

5 hours ago, Yagoda said:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/experts-hate-trump-s-war-on-iran-they-re-making-seven-fatal-errors/ar-AA1ZoAa7?ocid=hpmsn&cvid=69c57c9f1dc242a2a10d661b6da23d5e&ei=19

"What is wrong with the West’s expert class? Do they really believe, as they keep telling us, that the war against Iran is a disaster, the end of days, the final humiliation for Donald Trump? Such defeatism, such catastrophism are not warranted. It is far too soon to conclude how this war will end, regardless of what Iranian propagandists and other appeasers would have us believe."

Again, as with most of the other limited number of opinion pieces I start topics with, no one here will be able to dispute the assertions therein, so expect the usual Iran/China agitprop with the boring old anti american anti trump anti semitic trolling from the usual suspects.

"Again, as with most of the other limited number of opinion pieces I start topics with, no one here will be able to dispute the assertions therein ..."

Somewhat misplaced arrogance, old boy. (You really should pick your sources more carefully. Alister Heath is rarely reliable or correct). I will - once again - counter your assertions:

Error 1: Heath contradicts himself. While lauding the US's destruction of Iran, he admits that, "I don’t know how this war will end", so leaving open the possibility that all this destruction and economic turmoil caused by it is all for nothing. What kind of victory is that?

Error 2: Hardly a convincing argument. The author implies that Trump has some sort of Master Plan and that " .. the idea that Iran would move to block the Straits of Hormuz was the best-rehearsed risk in geopolitics". If that is the case then - given the ongoing problems in the Straits - that plan has gone horribly wrong.

Error 3: The degrading - rather than removal - of Iran's military capabilities and of the regime is now counted as success? This is moving the goalposts: Total destruction of Iran's military capabilities and regime change were the original objectives.

Error 4: The error was including this section. Heath's argument amounts to some of Trump's opponents use contradictory arguments against him, therefore Trump must be right: I think that the problem here is obvious.

Error 5: If 'Error 4' was embarrassing, Error 5 plunges even lower depths of logic! The fight against Putin is justified, therefore the fight against the Iranian regime must also be justified!!! Part of this justification seems to depend on the cost of 'net zero'????? .... No, me neither.

Error 6: No doubt anti-semites are against Trump's actions but that, in itself, is obviously and clearly no justification for a war: Heath suggests that Israel will stop this war when Trump says stop. There is little indication that will be the case.

Error 7: An obvious rebuttal comes to mind. Unfortunately, there are no end of countries where human rights are abused. Why isn't military action taken against Myanmar for example? Or China? Or Russia? Obviously, any action against the latter two nations would get very messy but that shows the fragility of trying to play the 'moral' card to justify this war.

5 hours ago, JerryM said:

Error 7

Last, why does the bien-pensant Left not care about the human rights of the oppressed Iranian people? Why do they sound almost gleeful that the regime hasn’t fallen?

This is the typical BS from supporters of the Iran war. Does anyone really believe that the Trump administration actually cares about the human rights of Iranian citizens? Look what happened in Venezuela. I have repeatedly put up posts pointing out how the Trump administration has left the Venezuelan people subject to the same government that has oppressed them all along. Not once have any of the vociferous supporters of the Venezuelan excursion who back when were loudly proclaiming their support of the Venezuelan people, responded to my posts. I think it's safe to assume that once again any tears they are shedding now for the Iranians are crocodilian.

7 hours ago, Yagoda said:

Again, as with most of the other limited number of opinion pieces I start topics with, no one here will be able to dispute the assertions therein, so expect the usual Iran/China agitprop with the boring old anti american anti trump anti semitic trolling from the usual suspects.

There are aseannow members who appoint themselves referees and proclaim that they have won an argument. That's sad enough, but at least a debate has taken place. Yagoda's assertion of victory in advance is just tragic.

3 hours ago, Yagoda said:

Different war, different technology, different leaders, different enemy, different geography

In my view it’s more about the hubris of it…Donnie didn’t build a consensus within our country nore amongst our erstwhile Allie’s he paid absolutely no attention nore care of how it would affect us let alone others….take a look outside and understand the extra burden it’s putting on our foreign friends….no exit strategy the utter absolute amateurish planning 1 effin fleet oiler are you effin kidding me!!!the obvious lack of understanding of the consequences and possible enemy strategies…….It reeks of the demented grandpa playing war leader with toys…….sad and pathetic(on trumps planning)NOT on the professionalism of our military….

7 hours ago, Yagoda said:

Again, as with most of the other limited number of opinion pieces I start topics with, no one here will be able to dispute the assertions therein, so expect the usual Iran/China agitprop with the boring old anti american anti trump anti semitic trolling from the usual suspects.

Again, as with most of the other limited number of opinion pieces you start topics with, no one here will be allowed to dispute your flawed assertions therein, so expect the usual US agitprop with the boring old pro-American pro-MAGA pro-Israel trolling from yourself: Name-calling, accusations of hatred toward people we actually don't hate in the least, ad-hominid attack of our character, and one sentence trolls. But sally forth with the drivel and pabulum.

So no one here is surprised in the least. Oh, and Trump has already lost the Iran War. It's a Thucydides Trap and he stepped in it with both feet.

7 hours ago, Yagoda said:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/experts-hate-trump-s-war-on-iran-they-re-making-seven-fatal-errors/ar-AA1ZoAa7?ocid=hpmsn&cvid=69c57c9f1dc242a2a10d661b6da23d5e&ei=19

"What is wrong with the West’s expert class? Do they really believe, as they keep telling us, that the war against Iran is a disaster, the end of days, the final humiliation for Donald Trump? Such defeatism, such catastrophism are not warranted. It is far too soon to conclude how this war will end, regardless of what Iranian propagandists and other appeasers would have us believe."

Again, as with most of the other limited number of opinion pieces I start topics with, no one here will be able to dispute the assertions therein, so expect the usual Iran/China agitprop with the boring old anti american anti trump anti semitic trolling from the usual suspects.

7 hours ago, Yagoda said:

Again, as with most of the other limited number of opinion pieces I start topics with, no one here will be able to dispute the assertions therein, so expect the usual Iran/China agitprop with the boring old anti american anti trump anti semitic trolling from the usual suspects.

Well, that prediction failed quickly.

9 hours ago, Yagoda said:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/experts-hate-trump-s-war-on-iran-they-re-making-seven-fatal-errors/ar-AA1ZoAa7?ocid=hpmsn&cvid=69c57c9f1dc242a2a10d661b6da23d5e&ei=19

"What is wrong with the West’s expert class? Do they really believe, as they keep telling us, that the war against Iran is a disaster, the end of days, the final humiliation for Donald Trump? Such defeatism, such catastrophism are not warranted. It is far too soon to conclude how this war will end, regardless of what Iranian propagandists and other appeasers would have us believe."

Again, as with most of the other limited number of opinion pieces I start topics with, no one here will be able to dispute the assertions therein, so expect the usual Iran/China agitprop with the boring old anti american anti trump anti semitic trolling from the usual suspects.

The west expert class don't /refuse/ or are incompetent to realize the full extent of a authoritarian regime that mirrors a 1930's style Germany. Since 1984 they have been declared a State sponsor of terror , it wasn't till they bragged they had enough enriched uranium,that peaceful negotiations stopped.

2 hours ago, Alan Zweibel said:

There are aseannow members who appoint themselves referees and proclaim that they have won an argument.

Or with the admonition 'nice try' or the helpful 'try harder'.

10 hours ago, Yagoda said:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/experts-hate-trump-s-war-on-iran-they-re-making-seven-fatal-errors/ar-AA1ZoAa7?ocid=hpmsn&cvid=69c57c9f1dc242a2a10d661b6da23d5e&ei=19

"What is wrong with the West’s expert class? Do they really believe, as they keep telling us, that the war against Iran is a disaster, the end of days, the final humiliation for Donald Trump? Such defeatism, such catastrophism are not warranted. It is far too soon to conclude how this war will end, regardless of what Iranian propagandists and other appeasers would have us believe."

Again, as with most of the other limited number of opinion pieces I start topics with, no one here will be able to dispute the assertions therein, so expect the usual Iran/China agitprop with the boring old anti american anti trump anti semitic trolling from the usual suspects.

You've racked up 13 thumbs down already.

It really makes one wonder who on here is actually supporting a regime that routinely has its officials and crowds chanting "Death to America" and "Death to Israel / Curse the Jews",slogans that have been a core part of their revolutionary identity for decades.

This is the same regime that arms and directs its proxies (Hezbollah, Houthis, Iraqi militias, etc.) to carry out murder and mayhem across the region, while brutally suppressing and killing its own citizens during protests.

And now they're even launching missiles and drones at countries that were trying to stay neutral or had no direct involvement.

3 hours ago, Alan Zweibel said:

I have repeatedly put up posts pointing out how the Trump administration has

It is possible the hundreds of absurd anti Trump/anti America/anti democracy threads started daily have led to severe fatigue, and other than the clique of fellow diehard irrational Trump haters I'd wager most of these nonsensical threads go ignored. So easy to miss any salient points you may have had. Just IMO

7 hours ago, Yagoda said:

What did they hit? How many got through? LOL, living in dreamworld I see

Why dont you do real research to find out what they hit and continue to hit and stop pulling stuff from your butt and claiming something thats not accurate. Oh thats right trump told you whats "really" going on, like the imaginary peace negotiations he claims he's having with himself or his son in law.

8 hours ago, JerryM said:

Take2 -- Error 4 Iran’s (remaining) leaders are depicted as brilliant strategists,

I am not qualified to dispute either opinion but this via AI Gemini from MiddleEastEye.net:

The depiction of Iran's remaining leadership as "brilliant strategists" has primarily been attributed to Sir Alex Younger, the former head of Britain's MI6.

In a March 2026 interview with The Economist, Younger analyzed the ongoing conflict (Operation Epic Fury/Absolute Resolve), noting that the Iranian regime has proven far more resilient than Western intelligence anticipated.

He specifically highlighted their tactical foresight in dispersing military assets and delegating command authority as early as June 2025—moves that allowed them to maintain operational capability despite the intense U.S.-Israeli air campaign.

You don't have to be a brilliant strategist to outfox Trump. Trump is so dumb he actually believes his own lies.

America, thanks to its courage to take risks, achieved the incredible—it became the world leader in just a couple of centuries. Vlad supporters would like to see America take unjustified, reckless risks. Therefore, Vlad is very sympathetic to Trump, knowing that he would bet the Americans' last pants on military roulette.

34 minutes ago, riclag said:

The west expert class don't /refuse/ or are incompetent to realize the full extent of a authoritarian regime that mirrors a 1930's style Germany. Since 1984 they have been declared a State sponsor of terror , it wasn't till they bragged they had enough enriched uranium,that peaceful negotiations stopped.

There have been any number of authoritarian regimes since the 1930s and the US has cherry picked which ones are 'good' (most right-wing South American juntas) and which ones are 'bad' (most left-wing administrations anywhere), so let's not pretend that the US's actions in Iran have much to do with a philosophical dislike of authoritarianism.

The world has managed to live with Iran - albeit uncomfortably at times - since 1984 so what's changed? If as you say, it is the possibility that Iran now has enough enriched uranium to build a nuclear weapon then the question must be asked, 'How did it get to this stage?' Imo a significant contributory factor was Trump withdrawing from JCPOA, an agreement which according to the independent monitoring authority was succeeding in its' objectives e.g. to prevent Iran from developing weapons grade uranium.

This appears to be something that Trump supporters are unwilling and/or unable to acknowledge.

6 hours ago, Yagoda said:

Different war, different technology, different leaders, different enemy, different geography

The biggest difference is what ever you thought of them Kennedy,Johnson,Nixon were competent human beings unlike No More Wars - Israel First Trump and his crime family.

https://history.state.gov/historicaldocuments/frus1969-76v23/d233

I have always supported the State of Israel, as a Congressman, Senator, as Vice President, during the years I was out of office, and as President. My support, however, has in no way been influenced by the Jewish political lobby in the United States. On the contrary, I have made it clear time and time and again to friends in the Jewish community that under no circumstances would I take a position on aid to Israel which I felt would be in conflict with the national security interests of the United States.