Thaksin And His Wife Issued Arrest Warrants Over Ratchadapisek Land Case

[Samuian]

...and the charade goes on...upside down, downside up... "honest lies"..

[steveromagnino]

In 2002, still nobody was interested, so the FIDF had it reappraised and the value was put at THB 870 million, but still no buyers in sight. In 2003, as was normal for the FIDF, this property was put out to auction. At that time, the property was reappraised, and was valued in the low THB 700 million range. Now, at this price people were interested. There were three bidders, Noble Development, Land & Houses and a company controlled by Pojamon. Pojamon had the highest bid at THB 772 million, hence, the FIDF sold it to her for this amount. Testimony by those that controlled the FIDF (not Thaksin's friends) have said if they had to do it all over again, they would sell it to her again. This was the best offer they had.

According to the people i work with (similar family to L&H) the auction was clearly not meant to be won by anyone else, so they never bid. Whatever they bid they expected to be overbid by SWMBO (to use a spot of Rumpole of the Bailey).

The idea of bidding and going head to head with the PM hasn't worked for many, survivors know which deals to chase. Then again, one might wonder why a psuedo government NPL property would be sold right before the biggest property boom of the last 8 years caused as the result totally of government policy.

The idea that then BOT governor is in some way neutral is a bit of an odd idea. After all, this is the guy that basically declared war on Sonthi via the KTB scandal (and this wasn't some neutral going against the government, without the inside story we simply don't know why), also the guy that caused the biggest sharemarket crash in a day and also who turned down the idea of being PM when asked - whether he is super pro or anti Thaksin is probably not the right question; more like which side does he favour. At best he was inept in some of his moves, at worst some wonder whether he basically deliberately rooted the economy as much as possible then quit. Not so different from the di*khead moves of planting bombs in the heart of BKK on new years eve.

His son is a total twit and is probably the governor of choice for the PPP crowd as I doubt they can afford to risk running their own candidate and will run a proxy in case they lose as they did last time with the socialite activist twit Paveena. You gotta wonder how far the apple falls from the tree when we compare one of life's all time whingers K Pleum with his dad.

At the end of the day, the PM cannot be selling stuff to themselves. If they didn't like it, they should have concealed it a bit better; similar to the whole Khunying part of the tax dodge; if you are going to cheat at least do it with a bit of care dammit!

Ah well, Leea dee can help Herr Thaksin feel better she love him long time.

Edited August 18, 2008 by steveromagnino

[Old Man River]

In 2002, still nobody was interested, so the FIDF had it reappraised and the value was put at THB 870 million, but still no buyers in sight. In 2003, as was normal for the FIDF, this property was put out to auction. At that time, the property was reappraised, and was valued in the low THB 700 million range. Now, at this price people were interested. There were three bidders, Noble Development, Land & Houses and a company controlled by Pojamon. Pojamon had the highest bid at THB 772 million, hence, the FIDF sold it to her for this amount. Testimony by those that controlled the FIDF (not Thaksin's friends) have said if they had to do it all over again, they would sell it to her again. This was the best offer they had.

According to the people i work with (similar family to L&H) the auction was clearly not meant to be won by anyone else, so they never bid. Whatever they bid they expected to be overbid by SWMBO (to use a spot of Rumpole of the Bailey).

The idea of bidding and going head to head with the PM hasn't worked for many, survivors know which deals to chase. Then again, one might wonder why a psuedo government NPL property would be sold right before the biggest property boom of the last 8 years caused as the result totally of government policy.

The idea that then BOT governor is in some way neutral is a bit of an odd idea. After all, this is the guy that basically declared war on Sonthi via the KTB scandal (and this wasn't some neutral going against the government, without the inside story we simply don't know why), also the guy that caused the biggest sharemarket crash in a day and also who turned down the idea of being PM when asked - whether he is super pro or anti Thaksin is probably not the right question; more like which side does he favour. At best he was inept in some of his moves, at worst some wonder whether he basically deliberately rooted the economy as much as possible then quit. Not so different from the di*khead moves of planting bombs in the heart of BKK on new years eve.

His son is a total twit and is probably the governor of choice for the PPP crowd as I doubt they can afford to risk running their own candidate and will run a proxy in case they lose as they did last time with the socialite activist twit Paveena. You gotta wonder how far the apple falls from the tree when we compare one of life's all time whingers K Pleum with his dad.

At the end of the day, the PM cannot be selling stuff to themselves. If they didn't like it, they should have concealed it a bit better; similar to the whole Khunying part of the tax dodge; if you are going to cheat at least do it with a bit of care dammit!

Ah well, Leea dee can help Herr Thaksin feel better she love him long time.

Separate from the three bidders, there were 5 others that expressed interest, but backed off (probably for the reasons you mention). Still, there has never been any proof that the bidding was rigged.

[Tony Clifton]

The simple fact that they got busted with the Khunying title on a piece of paper dated for when she hadn't yet received the title explains a lot about the case and the family involved.

Personally, I ll cheer when they officially strip her of that Khunying title.

[Old Man River]

The simple fact that they got busted with the Khunying title on a piece of paper dated for when she hadn't yet received the title explains a lot about the case and the family involved.

That is very interesting. I missed it. Please show me where it is in print.

[Tony Clifton]

The simple fact that they got busted with the Khunying title on a piece of paper dated for when she hadn't yet received the title explains a lot about the case and the family involved.

That is very interesting. I missed it. Please show me where it is in print.

Banaphot's promissory notes, issued to purchase the Shin Corp stocks from Pojaman in March 1999, named "Khunying Pojaman" as the beneficiary, but at that time, Pojaman had not received the khunying title, implying that the promissory notes were issued retroactively as a cover-up.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/topstory/r...newsid=30077925

[steveromagnino]

The simple fact that they got busted with the Khunying title on a piece of paper dated for when she hadn't yet received the title explains a lot about the case and the family involved.

That is very interesting. I missed it. Please show me where it is in print.

this was one of the key pieces of evidence that nailed her because it showed clear fraud; read the judgement fairly sure they address it in there.

Certainly in Thai this was one of the major issues that all channels and commentators had to recognise, the pro Shinawatra channels basically chose to try to ignore it completely, but it was the nail in the coffin so to speak because it showed intent to create a false papertrail. This is a mistake not a single Thai person would ever make (unlike say, cheating in university, mis-stating asset declarations, forgetting conversations, etc etc)

Edited August 19, 2008 by steveromagnino

[ratcatcher]

The simple fact that they got busted with the Khunying title on a piece of paper dated for when she hadn't yet received the title explains a lot about the case and the family involved.

That is very interesting. I missed it. Please show me where it is in print.

Banaphot's promissory notes, issued to purchase the Shin Corp stocks from Pojaman in March 1999, named "Khunying Pojaman" as the beneficiary, but at that time, Pojaman had not received the khunying title, implying that the promissory notes were issued retroactively as a cover-up.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/topstory/r...newsid=30077925

I am curious to know whether the honorific "Khunying" bestowed upon Potjaman Shinawatra can be rescinded.

Since she is married to a criminal and is herself a convicted criminal, surely such a title in front of her name demeans the other high society ladies who have in some way done some good for this country.

Potjaman has shamed herself and Thailand and thus the person who gave her the title?

Is "Khunying" the same as "Dame" or "Lady" in the U.K., an honor bestowed by H.M. the Queen?

[ratcatcher]

Protect Thaksin's dignity, Yaowapha pleads

Yaowapha Wongsawat, the sister of former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra, called on Premier Samak Sundaravej to protect Thaksin's dignity and honour, as a former national leader, despite his being put on a police wanted list.

Yaowapa

Yaowapha, who holds no official executive post in the ruling People Power Party, still has good connections with many of its MPs, who come from the disฌbanded Thai Rak Thai Party, in which Yaowapha served as an executive.

Before a meeting of the ruling party, Yaowapha met with many People Power MPs who are still loyal to former TRT leader Thaksin, PPP executive Suthin Klangsang said.

Some 200 party MPs and election candidates sent a letter asking Samak to explain the police move in putting Thaksin on the wanted list.

Yaowapha said the politicians were not pressuring the PM but simply acted on concerns by people in their elecฌtorates.

"People were really upset when an arrest warrant was issued for Thaksin. They asked the MPs, who simply relayed this concern to the party leader," Suthin quoted Yaowapha as saying.

"The MPs just want to ask the party leader to protect Thaksin's human dignity and his status as a former prime minister - it is not for Thaksin himself," she was quoted saying.

Thaksin's sister said he did not deserve such "humiliating" treatment from the police, as there had been no court ruling condemning him.

Samak, who is also People Power leader, declined to comment on the matter on Tuesday.

THE NATION 19-08-200

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well The Whopper is still flogging a dead horse. All dignity and honor went out the window when Thailand's Most Wanted fled the scene.

Protecting Thaksin's "dignity" should be left to the families of the people killed in the drug wars a few years ago.

[Old Man River]

The simple fact that they got busted with the Khunying title on a piece of paper dated for when she hadn't yet received the title explains a lot about the case and the family involved.

That is very interesting. I missed it. Please show me where it is in print.

Banaphot's promissory notes, issued to purchase the Shin Corp stocks from Pojaman in March 1999, named "Khunying Pojaman" as the beneficiary, but at that time, Pojaman had not received the khunying title, implying that the promissory notes were issued retroactively as a cover-up.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/topstory/r...newsid=30077925

Thanks. I thought you were referring to the purchase of the Ratchadapisek land. On the tax issue, there is no question whatsoever (in my mind) that it was fraud.

[Old Man River]

The simple fact that they got busted with the Khunying title on a piece of paper dated for when she hadn't yet received the title explains a lot about the case and the family involved.

That is very interesting. I missed it. Please show me where it is in print.

this was one of the key pieces of evidence that nailed her because it showed clear fraud; read the judgement fairly sure they address it in there.

Certainly in Thai this was one of the major issues that all channels and commentators had to recognise, the pro Shinawatra channels basically chose to try to ignore it completely, but it was the nail in the coffin so to speak because it showed intent to create a false papertrail. This is a mistake not a single Thai person would ever make (unlike say, cheating in university, mis-stating asset declarations, forgetting conversations, etc etc)

As explained, I thought the reference being made was to paper trail on the Ratchadapisek land purchase.

Make no mistake about it, I am strongly in the opinion that Thaksin ran this country just like he ran his company (i.e. as if he owned it). I just think the Ratchadapisek land case is not the one which proves it and proving it without a shadow of a doubt is what is needed to show the people of the northeast what a mistake they made. Otherwise, they will continue to elect Thaksin incarnates again and again and again.

[sriracha john]

Thaksin regime falling due to court verdicts

With his key lieutenants losing major cases, the former PM's own future is anything but assured

Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej added salt to Thailand's political wounds by saying in an interview in China that he would be detained at the airport upon his return to Bangkok. He was implying that there might be a coup against his government. Since he is now safe and free in Bangkok, we can conclude that Samak no longer has any credibility left.

Don't ever mention a coup again. It is outmoded. The Thai military learnt a dear lesson with the November 2006 coup. It is not a solution for the political future of this country.

The current deep-running political conflict can only be resolved by the rule of law. Now the judicial review is under way. A number of high profile cases are going to be tried by the Thai courts. Once the courts hand down their verdicts, Thai politics will move forward for the better, no matter whether we like the verdicts or not.

All eyes are now zooming onto the Ratchadaphisek land deal, in which Thaksin Shinawatra and his wife Pojaman have been charged with abusing their power. Pojaman purchased a prime land plot from the Financial Institutions Development Fund, a financial arm of the Bank of Thailand, with Thaksin's consent. Thai law prohibits public officeholders from directly engaging in financial transactions with the state.

Thaksin's case will go to trial today. The court verdict should be handed down some time in September of this year. Thaksin might have a tough time prevailing in this corruption case. If he were to lose in this high-profile corruption case, his political future would come to an end.

Suriyasai Katasila, one of the core leaders of the People's Alliance for Democracy, said over the weekend that friends of Thaksin in the military might stage a coup to help him escape from the court's verdict. Suriyasai's comment was highly speculative. It is not easy for the military - either friends or foes of Thaksin - to stage a coup under the present circumstances.

Thaksin must have some sleepless nights if he looks at the fates of his top lieutenants. Yongyuth Tiyapairat, the former House Speaker, will be facing a verdict from the Supreme Court's Office of Political Holders today in an election fraud case. He has already been given a red card from the Election Commission. If the Supreme Court finds him guilty, it would have negative consequences for the People Power Party, which might face dissolution, as Yongyuth is the party's Deputy Leader.

Three of Thaksin's lawyers - Pichit Chuenban, Supasri Srisawat and Thana Tansiri - have been sentenced to six months in jail for contempt of court. The contempt of court charge relates to 2 Million Baht stacked in a snack bag that was handed to Supreme Court officials. A bribery case is being launched against them. The three represented Thaksin and Pojaman in the Ratchadaphisek land deal.

Jakrapob Penkair, a Thaksin favourite, is now facing a lese majeste probe over remarks he made. Jakrapob lost his Cabinet job as PM's Office Minister.

Foreign Minister Noppadon Pattama, Thaksin's former personal lawyer, is also in hot water over Preah Vihear Temple. He is accused of conceding Thailand's sovereignty by allowing Cambodia to go ahead and file a sole application - rather than a joint application - for the Khmer temple to be on the World Heritage List. The Constitution Court will rule today whether his signing of a joint communiqu้ with his Cambodian counterpart on Preah Vihear violates the Constitution or not. Noppadon's political future is also very bleak.

If the fate of Thaksin's top lieutenants provides any clue, we are more inclined to believe that Thaksin would have an uphill battle winning the numerous corruption cases against him in the courts.

- The Nation

Khun Pichit was back involved in the case.... I'm sure it was a nice break from his cell....

Court summons convicted lawyer of Thaksin

The Supreme Court issued a summons on for a former defence lawyer, of ex-premier Thaksin Shinawatra, who is serving a six-month jail term for contempt to testify as a witness in the Ratchadapisek land case.

Presiding judge Thonglor Chomngam exercised his judicial discretion to hear the testimony of Pichit Chuenban on his involvement to defend former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra and his wife Pojaman, both co-defendants and fugitives living in exile in London.

- The Nation / 20-08-08

Edited August 20, 2008 by sriracha john

[jumnien]

Thaksin regime falling due to court verdicts

With his key lieutenants losing major cases, the former PM's own future is anything but assured

Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej added salt to Thailand's political wounds by saying in an interview in China that he would be detained at the airport upon his return to Bangkok. He was implying that there might be a coup against his government. Since he is now safe and free in Bangkok, we can conclude that Samak no longer has any credibility left.

Don't ever mention a coup again. It is outmoded. The Thai military learnt a dear lesson with the November 2006 coup. It is not a solution for the political future of this country.

The current deep-running political conflict can only be resolved by the rule of law. Now the judicial review is under way. A number of high profile cases are going to be tried by the Thai courts. Once the courts hand down their verdicts, Thai politics will move forward for the better, no matter whether we like the verdicts or not.

All eyes are now zooming onto the Ratchadaphisek land deal, in which Thaksin Shinawatra and his wife Pojaman have been charged with abusing their power. Pojaman purchased a prime land plot from the Financial Institutions Development Fund, a financial arm of the Bank of Thailand, with Thaksin's consent. Thai law prohibits public officeholders from directly engaging in financial transactions with the state.

Thaksin's case will go to trial today. The court verdict should be handed down some time in September of this year. Thaksin might have a tough time prevailing in this corruption case. If he were to lose in this high-profile corruption case, his political future would come to an end.

Suriyasai Katasila, one of the core leaders of the People's Alliance for Democracy, said over the weekend that friends of Thaksin in the military might stage a coup to help him escape from the court's verdict. Suriyasai's comment was highly speculative. It is not easy for the military - either friends or foes of Thaksin - to stage a coup under the present circumstances.

Thaksin must have some sleepless nights if he looks at the fates of his top lieutenants. Yongyuth Tiyapairat, the former House Speaker, will be facing a verdict from the Supreme Court's Office of Political Holders today in an election fraud case. He has already been given a red card from the Election Commission. If the Supreme Court finds him guilty, it would have negative consequences for the People Power Party, which might face dissolution, as Yongyuth is the party's Deputy Leader.

Three of Thaksin's lawyers - Pichit Chuenban, Supasri Srisawat and Thana Tansiri - have been sentenced to six months in jail for contempt of court. The contempt of court charge relates to 2 Million Baht stacked in a snack bag that was handed to Supreme Court officials. A bribery case is being launched against them. The three represented Thaksin and Pojaman in the Ratchadaphisek land deal.

Jakrapob Penkair, a Thaksin favourite, is now facing a lese majeste probe over remarks he made. Jakrapob lost his Cabinet job as PM's Office Minister.

Foreign Minister Noppadon Pattama, Thaksin's former personal lawyer, is also in hot water over Preah Vihear Temple. He is accused of conceding Thailand's sovereignty by allowing Cambodia to go ahead and file a sole application - rather than a joint application - for the Khmer temple to be on the World Heritage List. The Constitution Court will rule today whether his signing of a joint communiqu้ with his Cambodian counterpart on Preah Vihear violates the Constitution or not. Noppadon's political future is also very bleak.

If the fate of Thaksin's top lieutenants provides any clue, we are more inclined to believe that Thaksin would have an uphill battle winning the numerous corruption cases against him in the courts.

- The Nation

Khun Pichit was back involved in the case.... I'm sure it was nice break from his cell....

Court summons convicted lawyer of Thaksin

The Supreme Court issued a summons on for a former defence lawyer, of ex-premier Thaksin Shinawatra, who is serving a six-month jail term for contempt to testify as a witness in the Ratchadapisek land case.

Presiding judge Thonglor Chomngam exercised his judicial discretion to hear the testimony of Pichit Chuenban on his involvement to defend former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra and his wife Pojaman, both co-defendants and fugitives living in exile in London.

- The Nation / 20-08-08

This PAD-controlled kangaroo court just doesn't know when to stop! Ah, well, that's where it stands today. Tomorrow's another day. At least they are causing the baht to weaken!

[sriracha john]

Make no mistake about it, I am strongly in the opinion that Thaksin ran this country just like he ran his company (i.e. as if he owned it). I just think the Ratchadapisek land case is not the one

Which begs the question... if it was so weak, why Pastrygate? Is this just another situation like TRT when they got busted buying votes even in constituencies where they were shoe-ins for victory anyway without it? Or dissolving Parliament even when TRT had an over-whelming majority? Is this just another of that brazen run-rough-shod- over-everything attitude that Thaksin is famous for?

Edited August 21, 2008 by sriracha john

[Tony Clifton]

Thaksin regime falling due to court verdicts

With his key lieutenants losing major cases, the former PM's own future is anything but assured

Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej added salt to Thailand's political wounds by saying in an interview in China that he would be detained at the airport upon his return to Bangkok. He was implying that there might be a coup against his government. Since he is now safe and free in Bangkok, we can conclude that Samak no longer has any credibility left.

Don't ever mention a coup again. It is outmoded. The Thai military learnt a dear lesson with the November 2006 coup. It is not a solution for the political future of this country.

The current deep-running political conflict can only be resolved by the rule of law. Now the judicial review is under way. A number of high profile cases are going to be tried by the Thai courts. Once the courts hand down their verdicts, Thai politics will move forward for the better, no matter whether we like the verdicts or not.

All eyes are now zooming onto the Ratchadaphisek land deal, in which Thaksin Shinawatra and his wife Pojaman have been charged with abusing their power. Pojaman purchased a prime land plot from the Financial Institutions Development Fund, a financial arm of the Bank of Thailand, with Thaksin's consent. Thai law prohibits public officeholders from directly engaging in financial transactions with the state.

Thaksin's case will go to trial today. The court verdict should be handed down some time in September of this year. Thaksin might have a tough time prevailing in this corruption case. If he were to lose in this high-profile corruption case, his political future would come to an end.

Suriyasai Katasila, one of the core leaders of the People's Alliance for Democracy, said over the weekend that friends of Thaksin in the military might stage a coup to help him escape from the court's verdict. Suriyasai's comment was highly speculative. It is not easy for the military - either friends or foes of Thaksin - to stage a coup under the present circumstances.

Thaksin must have some sleepless nights if he looks at the fates of his top lieutenants. Yongyuth Tiyapairat, the former House Speaker, will be facing a verdict from the Supreme Court's Office of Political Holders today in an election fraud case. He has already been given a red card from the Election Commission. If the Supreme Court finds him guilty, it would have negative consequences for the People Power Party, which might face dissolution, as Yongyuth is the party's Deputy Leader.

Three of Thaksin's lawyers - Pichit Chuenban, Supasri Srisawat and Thana Tansiri - have been sentenced to six months in jail for contempt of court. The contempt of court charge relates to 2 Million Baht stacked in a snack bag that was handed to Supreme Court officials. A bribery case is being launched against them. The three represented Thaksin and Pojaman in the Ratchadaphisek land deal.

Jakrapob Penkair, a Thaksin favourite, is now facing a lese majeste probe over remarks he made. Jakrapob lost his Cabinet job as PM's Office Minister.

Foreign Minister Noppadon Pattama, Thaksin's former personal lawyer, is also in hot water over Preah Vihear Temple. He is accused of conceding Thailand's sovereignty by allowing Cambodia to go ahead and file a sole application - rather than a joint application - for the Khmer temple to be on the World Heritage List. The Constitution Court will rule today whether his signing of a joint communiqu้ with his Cambodian counterpart on Preah Vihear violates the Constitution or not. Noppadon's political future is also very bleak.

If the fate of Thaksin's top lieutenants provides any clue, we are more inclined to believe that Thaksin would have an uphill battle winning the numerous corruption cases against him in the courts.

- The Nation

Khun Pichit was back involved in the case.... I'm sure it was nice break from his cell....

Court summons convicted lawyer of Thaksin

The Supreme Court issued a summons on for a former defence lawyer, of ex-premier Thaksin Shinawatra, who is serving a six-month jail term for contempt to testify as a witness in the Ratchadapisek land case.

Presiding judge Thonglor Chomngam exercised his judicial discretion to hear the testimony of Pichit Chuenban on his involvement to defend former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra and his wife Pojaman, both co-defendants and fugitives living in exile in London.

- The Nation / 20-08-08

This PAD-controlled kangaroo court just doesn't know when to stop! Ah, well, that's where it stands today. Tomorrow's another day. At least they are causing the baht to weaken!

I clearly remember a person of great stature and intelligence talking to dozens of judges all at once on television, many times over with different groups of them, asking them to do what is right for the country and to forget about under-the table mighty baht offers or any other form of outside influence or even threats. The fall of the US dollar must be PADs fault as well huh?

Thanks for the daily morning laughter.,

[Old Man River]

Make no mistake about it, I am strongly in the opinion that Thaksin ran this country just like he ran his company (i.e. as if he owned it). I just think the Ratchadapisek land case is not the one

Which begs the question... if it was so weak, why Pastrygate? Is this just another situation like TRT when they got busted buying votes even in constituencies where they were shoe-ins for victory anyway without it? Or dissolving Parliament even when TRT had an over-whelming majority? Is this just another of that brazen run-rough-shod- over-everything attitude that Thaksin is famous for?

This doesn't really beg the question. If the bribe was accepted, then Thaksin et all would know if the judges can be reached for subsequent trials. The potential bribe really had little to do with this trial.

SJ, I make my comments on his trial based on what is publicly known. If, somehow, other proof comes to light showing clear cut fraud in the bid, then all bets are off. However, based on the facts publicly known, the courts will have to opine that the PM has direct control over the FIDF and reported testimony by former PM's and the BOT Governor at that time say it just isn't so.

[hammered]

There will be a certain irony if as reported Thaksin seeks asylum and then is cleared in thsicase, whcih is possible. That would put Thaksin in a lot harder place than if he were found guilty in many ways.

[Old Man River]

There will be a certain irony if as reported Thaksin seeks asylum and then is cleared in thsicase, whcih is possible. That would put Thaksin in a lot harder place than if he were found guilty in many ways.

That was my exact point a few days ago. A not guilty in this case would cut him right off at the knees. How do you grant asylum to someone claiming they can't get a fair trial and then they are found not guilty? Then, the courts can nail him with all the rest.

[sriracha john]

Make no mistake about it, I am strongly in the opinion that Thaksin ran this country just like he ran his company (i.e. as if he owned it). I just think the Ratchadapisek land case is not the one

Which begs the question... if it was so weak, why Pastrygate? Is this just another situation like TRT when they got busted buying votes even in constituencies where they were shoe-ins for victory anyway without it? Or dissolving Parliament even when TRT had an over-whelming majority? Is this just another of that brazen run-rough-shod- over-everything attitude that Thaksin is famous for?

This doesn't really beg the question. If the bribe was accepted, then Thaksin et all would know if the judges can be reached for subsequent trials. The potential bribe really had little to do with this trial.

SJ, I make my comments on his trial based on what is publicly known. If, somehow, other proof comes to light showing clear cut fraud in the bid, then all bets are off. However, based on the facts publicly known, the courts will have to opine that the PM has direct control over the FIDF and reported testimony by former PM's and the BOT Governor at that time say it just isn't so.

I realize that, OMR, and that's why your opinion and points are valued. I apologize if my words were interpreted as antagonistic in the slightest or that they sought to contradict your assessment.

It's just that Pastrygate was so sloppily conducted and apparently unnecessary in this case... and that reminded me of other times when Thaksin could have had his own way with things without committing a crime/stupid act/regrettable action... and yet, has on those referenced occasions, did so anyway. He's like some perverse thrill-seeker in that manner... it's akin to the actress Winona Ryder who gets busted shoplifting in a dress store, while easily being able to afford them.

Thaksin would be a psychoanalyst's award-winning case study.

Edited August 21, 2008 by sriracha john

[sriracha john]

There will be a certain irony if as reported Thaksin seeks asylum and then is cleared in this case, which is possible. That would put Thaksin in a lot harder place than if he were found guilty in many ways.

That was my exact point a few days ago. A not guilty in this case would cut him right off at the knees. How do you grant asylum to someone claiming they can't get a fair trial and then they are found not guilty? Then, the courts can nail him with all the rest.

I hadn't considered that aspect..... it's actually humorously crazy.

[Siripon]

There will be a certain irony if as reported Thaksin seeks asylum and then is cleared in thsicase, whcih is possible. That would put Thaksin in a lot harder place than if he were found guilty in many ways.

That was my exact point a few days ago. A not guilty in this case would cut him right off at the knees. How do you grant asylum to someone claiming they can't get a fair trial and then they are found not guilty? Then, the courts can nail him with all the rest.

A very intersting scenario, and as mentioned the Ratchada case seems to depend on who oversaw the FIDF, but that may not mean the same as having direct control.

I read somewhere the British decide on asylum cases within a month, which I think will mean we will hear that verdict before the Ratchada one.

[sriracha john]

Supreme Court to rule on Thaksin case on Sept 17

The Supreme Court's Criminal Division for Political Office Holders will rule on the Ratchadaphisek land case against ousted PM Thaksin and his wife Potjaman on September 17, a judge said Friday. Friday is the last day of the hearing as the last defence witness was scheduled to testify, and the couple were scheduled to defend themselves in the case. The pair, however, skipped bail in the case and flew to London from Beijing, instead of returning to Bangkok as required by their bail conditions. Their lawyer Anek Khamchum appeared at the Supreme Court, saying they have not contacted Thaksin.

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breaking_news/b...s.php?id=129844

[Siripon]

If guilty of the white collar charges I think the benchmark will be more than fines, Rakkiart got several years for the medical drugs price scams and Wattana's just been sentenced to 10 years for the Klong Dan land scandal.

I think the populist policies took the elite by surprise but I don't think they hated them, rather they came to the realisation that Thaksin had designs of his own for political and personal domination- the votes from the masses were a convenient democratic cloak to legitimise and hide his intentions.

The so called looming big change that various pundits like to refer to may not be as momentous as some think, preparations for changes are probably already in place, whilst the so called controversial book that some like to hint at, is really not that revelational- sometimes in life one has no choice, it's either the devil or the deep blue sea.

[Insight]

^ Last paragraph is poetic Siripon - I believe the same also. Well said.

[Thai at Heart]

If guilty of the white collar charges I think the benchmark will be more than fines, Rakkiart got several years for the medical drugs price scams and Wattana's just been sentenced to 10 years for the Klong Dan land scandal.

I think the populist policies took the elite by surprise but I don't think they hated them, rather they came to the realisation that Thaksin had designs of his own for political and personal domination- the votes from the masses were a convenient democratic cloak to legitimise and hide his intentions.

The so called looming big change that various pundits like to refer to may not be as momentous as some think, preparations for changes are probably already in place, whilst the so called controversial book that some like to hint at, is really not that revelational- sometimes in life one has no choice, it's either the devil or the deep blue sea.

Precisely. They were scared at how popular he had become and with whom he was popular. He noticed that votes from the poor alone were enough to gain an absolute majority and this was a big big problem. That is just not how it is done old boy. Gaining the affections of the poor and rural was his biggest success and the cause of his (shorterm) downfall.

He made the rural population believe someone else cared about them too.

[Plus]

It wasn't his popularity that was the problem but rather how he abused it to enrich himself and his cronies. THAT was unacceptable, not his popularity.

[sriracha john]

Supreme Court holds last witness hearing for Ratchada land case

The Supreme Court's Division for Crimes of Political Position Holders has called a hearing for witnesses of the Ratcahda land purchase case of former Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra and his wife Potjaman.

Today's hearing will be the final interrogation of witnesses and both the defendants are obligated to attend. However, neither have given any clarification as to their actions and have not been able to be reached.

Previously, on the 20th of August, Senior Judge Thonglor Chomngam called on the defendant's former lawyer Pichit Chuenbaan who is also being tried on charges of bribery to take the stand as a witness.

Once the witness interrogations end today a court order will later be issued as to the verdict on the case and further proceedings.

- ThaiNews / today

[hammered]

It wasn't his popularity that was the problem but rather how he abused it to enrich himself and his cronies. THAT was unacceptable, not his popularity.

I think it was also his attempts to meddle in things that "didnt concern him" and to at one point actually make a statement of how well connected and able to influence things up there that also assisted in his downfall.

[younghusband]

It wasn't his popularity that was the problem but rather how he abused it to enrich himself and his cronies. THAT was unacceptable, not his popularity.

I think it was also his attempts to meddle in things that "didnt concern him" and to at one point actually make a statement of how well connected and able to influence things up there that also assisted in his downfall.

This perfectly intelligent exchange is an example of how political discussion on this forum will always be shrouded.For multi dimensional views one has to look elsewhere.

[Plus]

There's a code of conduct for Thai leaders stemming from old Buddhist/Hindu texts, there are twelve rules, and Thaksin just didn't fit in.

He was just a new face among thousands of thieves who pass themselves as leaders here but he aspired for the "real thing", he wasn't content with stuffing his pockets like everyone else. What exactly brough his downfall and how it played out is immaterial, it was bound to happen one way or another - he was clearly out of his place.

The list itself, btw, makes a good reading, the most consise form I could found:

http://www.buddhanet.net/cmdsg/econ6.htm

The twelve duties of a universal emperor (cakkavatti-vatta), D.III.61

1. Rule by righteousness

Provision of ward and protection to

2. Those in the emperor's immediate circle

3. The armed forces

4. Governors and administrative officers

5. Royal dependents, civil servants

6. Brahmins, householders, craftsmen, traders

7. Town and country dwellers

8. Religious devotees

9. Beasts and birds

10. Prevention of wrongdoing in the Kingdom

11. Distribution of wealth to the poor

12. Seeking advice from sages, aspiring to greater virtue

Thaksin failed more than half.