What Percent Of Long Term Farang Can Speak/read Thai

[bangkoksingapore]

what do you think are the %'s for farang in thailand for

3 yrs

5 yrs

7 yrs

10 yrs

that can speak thai / read thai

[simon43]

I suppose it really depends on how proficient you mean. I can speak Thai OK, can write it fine and can read Thai slowly with occasional hiatuses (hiatii?) - as I meet a word that I havn't used before and have to apply the rules of pronounciation in real-time...

I personally cannot understand why a 1-year visa extension application does not require proof of ability to (at least), speak passable Thai. After all, a visa extension application implies that one wishes to remain in Thailand for a reasonable length of time. Integration into Thai society, (if that's what we 'farang' should be doing) - implies knowledge of the local language and culture.

Simon

[bangkoksingapore]

i feel kind of silly because i am hear three years and have no made real effort to learn to read thai. i dont work here and it seems like everything is also written in english.

[simon43]

After my first 5 months in Thailand, I decided that I wanted to stay longer. The first action I took was to attend language classes. Maybe it depends where your priorities are. But I think it very important to try to integrate into the country that you are iving in. Learning the language makes a huge difference in LoS to the way in which you are viewed and treated by Thais.

Simon

[TAWP]

I personally cannot understand why a 1-year visa extension application does not require proof of ability to (at least), speak passable Thai. After all, a visa extension application implies that one wishes to remain in Thailand for a reasonable length of time. Integration into Thai society, (if that's what we 'farang' should be doing) - implies knowledge of the local language and culture.

No, a VISA extension doesn't indicate that someone wants to integrate themselfs, it's just a wish to remain in place longer, be it for family or job. An expat relocated here to guide a regional office for 2 years shouldn't be demanded to learn the language to get his VISA since it has no true bearing on his job. If it had, he would already handle this with the company he is employed by.

[rak sa_ngop]

I personally cannot understand why a 1-year visa extension application does not require proof of ability to (at least), speak passable Thai. After all, a visa extension application implies that one wishes to remain in Thailand for a reasonable length of time. Integration into Thai society, (if that's what we 'farang' should be doing) - implies knowledge of the local language and culture.

No, a VISA extension doesn't indicate that someone wants to integrate themselfs, it's just a wish to remain in place longer, be it for family or job. An expat relocated here to guide a regional office for 2 years shouldn't be demanded to learn the language to get his VISA since it has no true bearing on his job. If it had, he would already handle this with the company he is employed by.

....and don't forget that a lot of Thais don't want or like farangs speaking THEIR language!

[gburns57au]

I personally cannot understand why a 1-year visa extension application does not require proof of ability to (at least), speak passable Thai. After all, a visa extension application implies that one wishes to remain in Thailand for a reasonable length of time. Integration into Thai society, (if that's what we 'farang' should be doing) - implies knowledge of the local language and culture.

No, a VISA extension doesn't indicate that someone wants to integrate themselfs, it's just a wish to remain in place longer, be it for family or job. An expat relocated here to guide a regional office for 2 years shouldn't be demanded to learn the language to get his VISA since it has no true bearing on his job. If it had, he would already handle this with the company he is employed by.

Why long term live in Thailand.....I have been visiting for 14 years and speak read and write fine

[bangkoksingapore]

can someone tell me the difference between reading and writing thai? can some people write but not read, do others read but not write?

[garro]

Some people have no real interest in learning Thai no mater how long they stay in Thailand while others are really enthusiastic in the beginning but this enthusiasm wears off. Some people reach a level of Thai profiency they are happy with and stop progressing while others like to continuosly improve. It is up to the individual and a lot depends on where they live and what their reason for being in Thailand is.

I personally don't think I could cope with not being able to speak Thai because where I live is very remote but I do know that there are others in the same situation that don't feel the same need. I have also needed to learn the local dialect.

I think the main thing for me is that I enjoy speaking it and especially reading it. I love books and as my ability to read has progressed it has opened a whole new world of books to me. I have been interested in Buddhism since my teens and I now have access to thosands of Thai Buddhist books which havent been translated into English yet. Another bonus is that books are far cheaper in Thai

I have also tried to avoid speaking English at home and find I only tend to speak English now if I am in a bad mood

This will now change though as we have a newborn who we want to be bilingual so I will go back to speaking English at home.

During my five years in Thailand I have tried to spend at least an hour studying every day. I have no gift for languages but persistence does pay off. In my opinion it is very important to learn the tones correctly from the begining and learn to read and write as soon as possible; although there are a small percentage of fairly fluent speakers who can't read Thai. I just think the ability to read makes things a hel_l of a lot simpler.

Edited August 17, 2007 by garro

[Suszzy]

After my first 5 months in Thailand, I decided that I wanted to stay longer. The first action I took was to attend language classes. Maybe it depends where your priorities are. But I think it very important to try to integrate into the country that you are iving in. Learning the language makes a huge difference in LoS to the way in which you are viewed and treated by Thais.

Simon

i agree.

you would feel uncomfortable if you don't understand thai because

you woudn't know what's going on around you.it's easy language to learn and it's

not so difficult like the english language.( for me anyway)

[bangkoksingapore]

why did someone give this thread 1 star?

[thai_narak]

why did someone give this thread 1 star?

it means you're in trouble... 4 more stars and your thread is closed.

kidding....

Well, I'm in Thailand for aournd 11 years on and off and I still speak like a five year old kid.

[garro]

One of the things I have noticed is that many farang over-estimate their ability to speak Thai and this is especially true for native English speakers. I think that this is because many of us have no real experience of what fluency in another language means.

In my opinion fluent means being able to communicate about any subject effortlessly and flawlessly. If somebody claimed to speak English fluently at the level of many self-rated fluent Thai speakers they would be ridiculed.

I have a way to go before reaching becoming fluent but I am motivated to one day reach this stage. If I don't it won't be from lack of effort.

[spot]

I don't spend all my time in Thailand, and I'm mostly busy (lame excuse I know), but I've decided to make an effort to learn Thai.

My wifes family have always tried to speak English around me, and her father has gone from no English to good conversational in the last year. I thought it was really nice of him to make the effort, although it doesn't help me learn Thai.

I think it's only right that I should learn Thai if I'm married to a Thai. Even though when my son is born, I will only speak in English around him.

I'm stuck in front of a computer most of the day, so I have a white board in front of me with a few words written on to learn. I'll go through the words a few times a day and my wife quickly tests me every night....and it works.

[Murf]

One of the things I have noticed is that many farang over-estimate their ability to speak Thai and this is especially true for native English speakers. I think that this is because many of us have no real experience of what fluency in another language means.

In my opinion fluent means being able to communicate about any subject effortlessly and flawlessly. If somebody claimed to speak English fluently at the level of many self-rated fluent Thai speakers they would be ridiculed.

I have to agree with you here.

The amount of times i have heard the 'fluent' remark...

Or even the 'perfect' one.

I'm sorry, but i dont think so... I'm not saying that some people cant speak/read/write Thai very well, but fluent??

[Sanpatong]

I think of the people who can speak and read relatively proficiently they will have made a good start prior to the third year. So I think the group who's proficient in their 7th or 10th years were also doing rather well in their third year.

...and don't forget that a lot of Thais don't want or like farangs speaking THEIR language!

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Bull<CAUGH>sh1t!

[geronimo]

what do you think are the %'s for farang in thailand for

3 yrs

5 yrs

7 yrs

10 yrs

that can speak thai / read thai

Been here 22 years, a fluent speaker and never bothered to learn to read. I suppose it's all about what language skills you need in order to facilitate what you want to do. I'm fluent as I work with Thais on a professional level and also have to interpret very often. Personally I don't understand how some long term expats cannot make themselves understood in the language of the country they have chosen to live in! Each to his own I guess.

[lazeeboy]

I think of the people who can speak and read relatively proficiently they will have made a good start prior to the third year. So I think the group who's proficient in their 7th or 10th years were also doing rather well in their third year.

...and don't forget that a lot of Thais don't want or like farangs speaking THEIR language!

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Bull<CAUGH>sh1t!

13 years and my thai is ok ,understand most ,speak 50% but thais have a problem understanding me with my cockney accent ,as for reading forget

[stiggy]

How long before this thread gets highjacked by the you spell somtam this way brigade

Incidentally after a while here I can speak adequate Thai to ensure i dont get lost and can raise a giggle with Thai mates.

[Murf]

ลมทัม ???

[canuckamuck]

I work with farangs and English speaking Thais, so my immersion into Thai isn’t very complete. However I understand a lot and carry on many low level conversations.

I just finished reading a book in Thai. It’s about a big cat and a little cat that go fishing. The big cat only wants to catch big fish but the little cat isn’t fussy. The climax comes at the end of the day when the little cat decides to share his fish after the big cat realizes he acted foolishly out of pride. Quite an extraordinary account really, I had no idea cats could fish let alone understands complex issues like pride and mercy. My world is opening up.

The book was 8 pages and it took me half an hour to read it. The big pictures were helpful.

[LookSaMoon]

After my first 5 months in Thailand, I decided that I wanted to stay longer. The first action I took was to attend language classes. Maybe it depends where your priorities are. But I think it very important to try to integrate into the country that you are iving in. Learning the language makes a huge difference in LoS to the way in which you are viewed and treated by Thais.

Simon

i agree.

you would feel uncomfortable if you don't understand thai because

you woudn't know what's going on around you.it's easy language to learn and it's

not so difficult like the english language.( for me anyway)

agree

[garro]

I work with farangs and English speaking Thais, so my immersion into Thai isn't very complete. However I understand a lot and carry on many low level conversations.

I just finished reading a book in Thai. It's about a big cat and a little cat that go fishing. The big cat only wants to catch big fish but the little cat isn't fussy. The climax comes at the end of the day when the little cat decides to share his fish after the big cat realizes he acted foolishly out of pride. Quite an extraordinary account really, I had no idea cats could fish let alone understands complex issues like pride and mercy. My world is opening up.

The book was 8 pages and it took me half an hour to read it. The big pictures were helpful.

I bought a load of children's books for the wife and I to read to my newborn. They are only 15 bath each and are in both Thai & English. I am currently reading แมวกับคนใจคด ' The cat and the disloyal person' and I am sure you would love it canuckamuck, but I think it is a bit advanced for my one week old son as he failed all the comprehension questions I asked him at the end

[steveromagnino]

I have yet to see any company here in Thailand with Thai employees where speaking Thai would not be a help, in terms of understanding, leading, executing, building morale - the usual stuff that makes someone a good manager and delivers value to shareholders and stakeholders. Sure there are some expat companies here that can get by just fine with english only as there are no Thais or no Thais that are not 100% fluent in english; e.g. the world's leading mgt consultancy is probably in this boat; however the FACT is that the company I am referring to is kind of lame here for a variety of reasons, at least IMHO one being that they meet clients and lo and behold, the clients actually may have a degree from Oxford, but some of them like speaking Thai. The inability of the two principals that have led the operation here to deviate from the way they present stuff in Germany/Uk/USA as also not helped them either.

Becoming at least proficient at basic conversational Thai is a major start; becoming completely fluent is far beyond most; hel_l i consider it to be beyond me and I am part Thai! It takes like 3 months to get a basic understanding of Thai, and a lifetime to get beyond that unless you learned it as a kid.

I've met one, exactly one, farang who IMHO spoke perfect Thai that didn't appear to have grown up here. But I've met countless numbers who would have fluency in excess of what would be needed in all but the most unusual situations (making a plea in court, a requirement to address members of the royal family, succinctly presenting scientific concepts, etc). It all comes down to life, and need and desire. Simon43 made a conscious decision to learn. Many do not, and as it stands now, you can get by in Thailand of sorts, almost anywhere, not knowing how to speak or read.

I can understand laziness to some degree (although do support the idea that anyone wanting to stay longer than say 3 years should start getting tested in Thai - for smatr expats it should be a walk in the park to learn some basic Thai). I cannot really understand a few people I know who appear to actively try not to learn Thai.

Spot - you should speak to your kid in both languages - so many people get obsessed with their kid speaking english; they are like sponges and will do just fine hearing your wife's butchered english (perhaps) and your butchered Thai (;-)) - just speak lots to them and teach them lots of stuff instead of plonking them in front of TV is a massive head start :_)

Reading is a lot easier than writing, due to the intracies in knowing which S to use for instance (3 with the same sound) and adding on the extra letters for words coming across from Pali. I can read a lot faster than i can write for instance. I think one of the main reasons why my mother and others on her side of the family butcher the Thai language is because they never learned to read. Same issue with their CHinese. It sounds like pants.

3 yrs: less than 10%

5 yrs: less than 10%

7 yrs : less than 10%

10 yrs: less than 10%

that can speak thai / read thai

I don't see anyone improving much between 3 and 10+ years; if they are going to learn at all, most already have some pretty ok Thai within 3, and then it just gets infinitely better thereafter; anyone that has managed to stay here 3 years speaking like a kid, tends to stay at that level the rest of their life.

Edited August 17, 2007 by steveromagnino

[PeaceBlondie]

I've lived in expat enclaves in Thailand for over four years straight. I'm older than dirt and tone deaf. I know from learning a lot of Spanish that it's extremely unlikely that I'd ever become truly fluent in Thai. Besides, they only let me stay for a year at a time, so why should I invest money, time and effort in a language I may never use after the next cold November rain? One year extensions do not last forever.

Added: as for the actual numbers of expats who are fluent after given periods of time, that is unknowable.

[chinthee]

As someone who's lived as an expat in a number of countries where English is not commonly spoken I've always found it's useful to develop a love interest as the quickest way to learn a language.

[steveromagnino]

I've lived in expat enclaves in Thailand for over four years straight. I'm older than dirt and tone deaf. I know from learning a lot of Spanish that it's extremely unlikely that I'd ever become truly fluent in Thai. Besides, they only let me stay for a year at a time, so why should I invest money, time and effort in a language I may never use after the next cold November rain? One year extensions do not last forever.

Added: as for the actual numbers of expats who are fluent after given periods of time, that is unknowable.

Each person has to make their own decision. At 62, my mother has become somewhat of an expert on statistics after having never studied maths beyond age 15 (where she learned about to the level of what an average is). She is now invited to attend stat conferences for medical and other academic research, and proofs non native NZ PhD students (non stats ones) regarding their use of stats for the local university.

I don't think the idea that she wouldn't be allowed to continue doing this work or attend the conferences anymore has had any great bearing on her decision to simply dedicate hours and hours reading and learning this stuff, so that (IMHO) she can rubbish my own use of stats :-) It is all down to how much you want to learn it and whether you see any value to it. I cannot see how she can possibly get satisfaction out of wasting so much time learning maths, but there you have it.

She also has an interest in one specific area of law that escapes me, and attends and grills speakers for that area of commercial law as well - this is a little more understandable as she did learn some law working as a judge's associate. And yet she insists on never attempting to improve her terrible Thai and Chinese - she sees nil value to that.

Based on my limited experience meeting a LOT of people, I would say less than 1% of expats in any of those categories are anything close to native speaker level, and less than 10% have a decent comprehension of Thai. Total guess.

[GuestHouse]

I started to learn Thai on my first day in Thailand (count to ten, say please and thank you), I'm now fluent, spoken, reading and writing and I also studied Thai language and culture at a Thai university.

I believe on every level of life in Thailand, Thai language ability is the key to understanding and integrating.

I also don't buy this argument that people can't learn a language - They already have learned at least one language - we as humans are hard wired to learn langauge - the proof of that is that all of us learn at least some Thai, even if it is only enough to order a meal or a beer - Some people learn more, some people do not. I think the key to that is personality and attitude.

One thing is for sure - Thais love to hear foreigners learning their language and delight in hearing a foreigner speak polite well pronounced Thai. (If you are mixing with Thais who think you 'know too much - because you speak Thai' then I advise you could be doing better in choosing your company)

Absolutely Thai language ability does help with any official business - at Thai government offices, with the police, banks or in any situation where you are dealing with Thais who can give you the kind of Yes/No answer that can make or break your day.

--- And remember - It's important to speak the right Thai - Very important!

[Neeranam]

Based on my limited experience meeting a LOT of people, I would say less than 1% of expats in any of those categories are anything close to native speaker level, and less than 10% have a decent comprehension of Thai. Total guess.

I agree with that.

Get of your arse and learn!

ANYONE can learn one or two words a day unless they're retarded.

Check out this thread to help you - http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=49903

[qualtrough]

....and don't forget that a lot of Thais don't want or like farangs speaking THEIR language!

I truly have no idea what you are referring to above. In 17+ years here I have never met a Thai that that had that attitude, and in fact most seem delighted when someone makes the effort to speak Thai. I have read here of some jealous Thai wives/GFs that were worried about their farang husband knowing too much, but that says more about those particular women than it does Thais in general.