Are Farangs Who Marriages Failed Lucky?

[kat]

Stop banging on about the sun rising as if you are somehow introducing precision and definition into the topic...........It doesn't rise, just goes to show you can't even define your terms correctly. Your pseudo scientific analysis is exactly that..... pseudo. Its the mark of a patronising man too when you talk of women and children as the saviours of the world. They are like us, we are like them. You dont marry old ladies and why should a woman who is young want an older man? I can accpet that you are a nice guy and no doubt love your wife dearly as she probably loves you, but as a rational man you must concede that the average falang protests too much. None of our wives are hookers, if they were they are all reformed. They all married for love despite their background. We all know lots of bad relationships, perhaps the majority, but its never ours. We concede that the young girls are often out to get what they can, given the inequality they face they have little option but its never our wife always someone else. As long as there's a failure to face facts theres a danger of it all falling apart. When it does its catastrophic. take the blinkers off see what the real dynamics of relations ships between old and young are........security for sex, youth for money. Falang men steal their youth and they take our money for it. Though of course you and I are exceptions.

Wow. On fire!

I am just suggesting I am a bigot who thinks people with 20+ years age gap should not be together. If they do, they should be looked down at.

There is a certain irony how your sides circumnavigates around several issues here in this thread, and especially the OP's post topic.

You're all up in arms defending the right of those poor old men in "love" (lust?), while completely ignoring and/or simplifying socio-economic factors that in most cases facilitate these lopsided relationships.

I asked you a clear question that directly relates to the thread topic, and to your statement regarding the weight of women: Is it perfectly alright to dump you wife and look for a younger model in an economically challenged society as soon as the wife crossed her sell by date, because your financial position makes it possible?

I have a few posts ago asked another question that was so far conveniently ignored: How many of you have tried to bridge the enormous gap by learning the language of your wife, and have adapted to her culture beyond what is communicated in a tourist brochure?

Another poster has asked another unanswered question: How would you feel when a 58 year old bloke appears suddenly as your daughter's date?

So far, in this thread, i am missing any honest self examination by your side of the debate. You follow a rather shallow, self indulgent and simplistic pattern of debate - all is kushti coz they in lurve, and any question that might lead to some uncomfortable thoughts is countered with attacks such as us being "bigots" or "prissy".

You guys were brilliant. Great posts. It's so refreshing to get back up from the men for a change! You get it.

[WaiWai]

Another poster has asked another unanswered question: How would you feel when a 58 year old bloke appears suddenly as your 17 year old daughter's date?

Right; how do such couples negotiate these meetings ? ?

What if the 17 y.o. girl starts to take an interest in her date's 38 y.o. son, or 18 y.o. grandsdon ?

What kind of relationship does the 17 y.o. form with a daughter or grand-daughter of the 58 y.o ?

Edited August 24, 2007 by WaiWai

[meemiathai]

I am just suggesting I am a bigot who thinks people with 20+ years age gap should not be together. If they do, they should be looked down at.

There is a certain irony how your sides circumnavigates around several issues here in this thread, and especially the OP's post topic.

You're all up in arms defending the right of those poor old men in "love" (lust?), while completely ignoring and/or simplifying socio-economic factors that in most cases facilitate these lopsided relationships.

I asked you a clear question that directly relates to the thread topic, and to your statement regarding the weight of women: Is it perfectly alright to dump you wife and look for a younger model in an economically challenged society as soon as the wife crossed her sell by date, because your financial position makes it possible?

I have a few posts ago asked another question that was so far conveniently ignored: How many of you have tried to bridge the enormous gap by learning the language of your wife, and have adapted to her culture beyond what is communicated in a tourist brochure?

Another poster has asked another unanswered question: How would you feel when a 58 year old bloke appears suddenly as your 17 year old daughter's date?

So far, in this thread, i am missing any honest self examination by your side of the debate. You follow a rather shallow, self indulgent and simplistic pattern of debate - all is kushti coz they in lurve, and any question that might lead to some uncomfortable thoughts is countered with attacks such as us being "bigots" or "prissy".

So are you saying you are in love with your wife but they are in lust with theirs? In love, in lust, how do people clearly differentiate? Anyway it is not important. You seem not to notice that even without the age gap, a lot of relationships are not very much different from what you described as "socio-economic factors that in most cases facilitate these lopsided relationships." How do we judge? Do we look down on men who are ugly, fat, stupid....etc when they have a partner who has

a better outlook than they should seem to deserve, and automatically think it must be because of money, even if we do not know them?

Having a sense of justice is good! I wish more people on earth could have it! But to pick someone out in a society and make him guilty when you don't know anything about him is just as bad and unfair as to use the power of money to force these women into relationships. You are just trying to fulfill your psychological needs by sitting on a high horse.

These relationships are different in every cases. I do not doubt that most involves money. But I think it is more important if the man treats the woman nice or not. If the attitude of the man is he treats the woman badly coz he thinks he is paying, I will be the first to bash this idiot. But if not, the girl has entered this relationship willingly, then who are we to judge?

How many of you have tried to bridge the enormous gap by learning the language of your wife, and have adapted to her culture beyond what is communicated in a tourist brochure?

Again this is not for us to judge, perhaps they have found a way to communicate without having to learn the language? It is none of our business.

Another poster has asked another unanswered question: How would you feel when a 58 year old bloke appears suddenly as your 17 year old daughter's date?

If I really have a daughter and that happens? If that is what she chooses then it is none of my business! What if your daughter fell in love with a 58 year old man? Are you going stop them?

[ColPyat]

Another poster has asked another unanswered question: How would you feel when a 58 year old bloke appears suddenly as your 17 year old daughter's date?

If I really have a daughter and that happens? If that is what she chooses then it is none of my business! What if your daughter fell in love with a 58 year old man? Are you going stop them?

If that would happen to me - the first thing i would ask myself what terrible mistake i have made in the education of my daughter.

Would i try to stop it? Yes, most likely i would. A lot of it depends on that man as well - if he would be a rich bloke on the search of a non-feminist wifey, trying to impress her with lots of money, and not being able to communicate with my daughter - he would be in serious shit with me. There would be consequences.

See - that is how you answer a direct question. Would you mind answering mine, please?

[meemiathai]

Another poster has asked another unanswered question: How would you feel when a 58 year old bloke appears suddenly as your 17 year old daughter's date?

If I really have a daughter and that happens? If that is what she chooses then it is none of my business! What if your daughter fell in love with a 58 year old man? Are you going stop them?

If that would happen to me - the first thing i would ask myself what terrible mistake i have made in the education of my daughter.

Would i try to stop it? Yes, most likely i would. A lot of it depends on that man as well - if he would be a rich bloke on the search of a non-feminist wifey, trying to impress her with lots of money, and not being able to communicate with my daughter - he would be in serious shit with me. There would be consequences.

See - that is how you answer a direct question. Would you mind answering mine, please?

I thought I answered you already. Did I not?

I'll do it again. If that was my daughter, she would be free to choose a criminal, a person with AIDS, a drug addict, anyone as long as it is her choice, I will be there only to voice my opinion and help. Have I made myself clear?

Edited August 24, 2007 by meemiathai

[ColPyat]

I thought I answered you already. Did I not?

I'll do it again. If that is my daughter, she would be free to choose a criminal, a person with AIDS, a drug addict, anyone as long as it is her choice, I will be there only to voice my opinion and help. Have I made myself clear?

No, you did not.

Go and read my posts again.

Weight of wifes - dumping?

Communication? And no, maybe they have different forms of communication is no answer, unless we move into gaga-land and start theorizing about telepathy.

And yes, with your answer you made yourself clear. It serves your line of argument very well though.

[meemiathai]

i'll come back later tonite.

[SiamSquare123]

You guys have it all wrong. The majority of the time, it is the parents of the girl who introduce the older gentlemen 50-60 to their teenage daughter. These are good hard working people, and for you to say differently is to spit in their face. Sure, some of them are bad like my wifes uncle, but 99.9% of them are good people.

And let me make this CLEAR for the last time, these teenage girls ARE NOT sleeping with other men behind their husbands back. Such a claim is both insulting to these fine men and to their wifes.

Shakespeare said it best

"Love hath no age, for tis eternal" my friend actually has this tattoo across his arm. he had it done in patters last month. his wife is 19 and he is 58.

Why dont you visit the isaan region and see what poverty these girls in and then tell me that they will not love a 62 year old man who can care for them and give them anything they want. stop being so elitest. not everyone can marry a bangkok chinese thai.

Edited August 24, 2007 by SiamSquare123

[ColPyat]

And let me make this CLEAR for the last time, these teenage girls ARE NOT sleeping with other men behind their husbands back. Such a claim is both insulting to these fine men and to their wifes.

Like in the thread where young SiamSquare123's neighbor's wife offered him a freebie and he had to boast about it?

Edited August 24, 2007 by ColPyat

[ColPyat]

Wasn't that young SiamSquare123's post?

Quote:

i have a farang neighbor in my building who is not very friendly. i dont think he works in thailand and he is probably about 55, not very well kept or attractive. Our only interaction was as follows "YOU live here?, I mean YOU pay YOUR own rent", our apartment is fairly upscale at 100K baht/month. I just said "Yeah, I am John. I --" at which point he nodded, openned his door and shut it.

Well, there is a Thai women who told me that she is his wife, and today she asked me if she could borrow some milk. I went to get it for her and she came inside my condo uninvited and then walked around looking at everything. At first this was a little bit strange because I didnt think she would actually make a pass at someone living ten feet from her husband. I do feel however that she made her intentions obvious when she asked me if my bed was comfortable but I ushered her out of my room. (I am only 19 years old, but Ive seen enough television to know what she was after).

Now I am wondering, this guy is atleast 55 years old so maybe he has a mutual understanding with her that she is allowed to satisfy herself on her own time. I dont know the guy, but this would seem pretty reasonable since she is very young and attractive and he is as I described. On the other hand, if he isnt this opened minded and is more delussional about his abilities to satisfy her, then I might be stepping on toes if I take it any furthor with her.

Edited August 24, 2007 by ColPyat

[SiamSquare123]

And let me make this CLEAR for the last time, these teenage girls ARE NOT sleeping with other men behind their husbands back. Such a claim is both insulting to these fine men and to their wifes.

Like in the thread where young SiamSquare123's neighbor's wife offered him a freebie and he had to boast about it?

this couple is quite different. they had an understanding. and i have to be honest, i work out often and have done some modeling. its not as though these girls are going to be running into guys like me up in Roi Et. Yes, some of these girls might be cheating but most of them certainly arent, you are just jealous of these happy 60 year old guys so you try to paint them all with the same brush.

[ColPyat]

this couple is quite different. they had an understanding. and i have to be honest, i work out often and have done some modeling. its not as though these girls are going to be running into guys like me up in Roi Et. Yes, some of these girls might be cheating but most of them certainly arent, you are just jealous of these happy 60 year old guys so you try to paint them all with the same brush.

You mean, a guy that speaks insufficient Thai, dryhumps their uncles after spitting Chili in the uncles face. How could they miss out on such a catch?

Nah, up in Roi Et they are running into young and because of hard work well built Thai blokes who speak their language, understand their humor, and to whom these girls can relate to.

Roi Et is actually a brilliant example - there is the world famous village lovingly called "little Switzerland". I am slightly familiar with that village - it is a perfect case study that supports my points of view in such extremes that one would hardly believe that it could be real.

Edited August 24, 2007 by ColPyat

[qwertz]

And let me make this CLEAR for the last time, these teenage girls ARE NOT sleeping with other men behind their husbands back. Such a claim is both insulting to these fine men and to their wifes.

Like in the thread where young SiamSquare123's neighbor's wife offered him a freebie and he had to boast about it?

this couple is quite different. they had an understanding. and i have to be honest, i work out often and have done some modeling. its not as though these girls are going to be running into guys like me up in Roi Et. Yes, some of these girls might be cheating but most of them certainly arent, you are just jealous of these happy 60 year old guys so you try to paint them all with the same brush.

Whoopee, the son of Raleigh returns.

[Dustoff]

So are you saying you are in love with your wife but they are in lust with theirs? In love, in lust, how do people clearly differentiate? Anyway it is not important. You seem not to notice that even without the age gap, a lot of relationships are not very much different from what you described as "socio-economic factors that in most cases facilitate these lopsided relationships." How do we judge? Do we look down on men who are ugly, fat, stupid....etc when they have a partner who has

a better outlook than they should seem to deserve, and automatically think it must be because of money, even if we do not know them?

Having a sense of justice is good! I wish more people on earth could have it! But to pick someone out in a society and make him guilty when you don't know anything about him is just as bad and unfair as to use the power of money to force these women into relationships. You are just trying to fulfill your psychological needs by sitting on a high horse.

These relationships are different in every cases. I do not doubt that most involves money. But I think it is more important if the man treats the woman nice or not. If the attitude of the man is he treats the woman badly coz he thinks he is paying, I will be the first to bash this idiot. But if not, the girl has entered this relationship willingly, then who are we to judge?

Well said, Meemaithai. Most of us on these forums are westerners and our upbringing trains us almost from birth (through religion, sports, politics, et al.) to take sides and demonize/objectify any who disagree with us. Those who take a more compassionate 'middle of the road' view (the only position from which we can see both sides) are few and far between as we see in this very thread.

Hence my use of the word bigot which simply means, "One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ."

Bigots are of course the first to complain about the use of the word, even if not aimed at them directly and I think they do so because deep inside they know, if not consciously, that they are extremely biased in their judgments of others who they do not, nor wish to, understand.

And yes, right on, having a sense of justice is indeed good, but only when it appropriately targets those who truly deserve it such as criminals in our, or any other, society.

Thank you for pointing this out but don't expect your wisdom to be widely appreciated.

[meom]

You guys have it all wrong. The majority of the time, it is the parents of the girl who introduce the older gentlemen 50-60 to their teenage daughter. These are good hard working people, and for you to say differently is to spit in their face. Sure, some of them are bad like my wifes uncle, but 99.9% of them are good people.

Sure Siam you got it all right. So what's the going rate these days for a 17 yr old (virgin?) being married of to a 50-60 year old.

[meemiathai]

A soldier with not many experience in battlefields walks into a town in a warzone with a heavy machine gun, sees ugly deaths everywhere and starts thinking, "oh shit, this is he11! People here must be devils!", and starts trembling onwards. A tab on his shoulder, and he went out of control shooting all the bullets out from his machine towards all directions killing every bloody person including his own fellow country men.

Came to my mind.

[meemiathai]

I thought I answered you already. Did I not?

I'll do it again. If that is my daughter, she would be free to choose a criminal, a person with AIDS, a drug addict, anyone as long as it is her choice, I will be there only to voice my opinion and help. Have I made myself clear?

No, you did not.

Go and read my posts again.

Weight of wifes - dumping?

Communication? And no, maybe they have different forms of communication is no answer, unless we move into gaga-land and start theorizing about telepathy.

And yes, with your answer you made yourself clear. It serves your line of argument very well though.

Sorry I was at work. So did not carefully answer.

Weight of wives - dumping? If you get my point here I am sure you should know what my answers are. I will not dump my wife no matter what she becomes. I could lick her all over even if she has just been pulled up from a sewage. And for others, it is none of my business as long as no one is looking for help from me.

And for Communication, again how do we know exactly? You or me might think they cannot communicate but maybe they can!

Communication is not only by language, how do you think animals communicate? I spoke the same language as my ex-gf but I communicate much better with my now wife even when we did not speak a common language.

I understand you peoples' concern. And I don't think I am any different. But you just don't treat every bloody case the same and treat them unfairly. It is like saying my father has a moustarche then justifies saying the ones who have moustarche is my father.

[a2396]

Wow, this thing at 28 pages!! Must be close to a record. I guess I should make a couple of stirs to the hornets nest. Seems like some people on here are getting rabid about age differences. If the couple are truly in love with each other, happy amd compatible and it is not a "for money" deal, then more power to them. For the "straight & narrows" in the crowd, some "Good Christian" churches frown on unions with major age differences. One told me their "guideline" was no more than 5 years difference. So, if you are looking for a ticket to heaven, best you conform. Otherwise, get out of Dodge & pick up your coal shovel on the way.

[Dustoff]

I am just suggesting I am a bigot who thinks people with 20+ years age gap should not be together. If they do, they should be looked down at.

Okay MMT (lol), I don't think I agree with this one but have to admit that were I as young as I suspect you are, I would agree wholeheartedly.

My wife is 30 years younger but when we met, she was/is an intelligent, self-educated adult woman who was 30-years of age so I really don't think that I could be accused of 'robbing the cradle'. Nor am I some fat (6'2", 180 lbs), gimping old drunken geezer as many on this forum would paint us. We motorcycle together, engage in mountain trekking, skydiving, ultralight flying, traveling the world and my avatar is a pic of myself taken just a couple of years ago. Yup, ugly as sin but as energetic as many of my male friends who are decades younger and I don't even know what a Viagra pill looks like.

Now, had I been 45 and she was 15, someone should have, if not put me in prison for much of the rest of my life, removed my gonads. And, obviously, a few in this thread would perhaps like to do that today...

[meom]

For the "straight & narrows" in the crowd, some "Good Christian" churches frown on unions with major age differences. One told me their "guideline" was no more than 5 years difference. So, if you are looking for a ticket to heaven, best you conform. Otherwise, get out of Dodge & pick up your coal shovel on the way.

Saved the day a2396. Mrs Meom is exactly 5 years older than me and the Mia is exactly 5 years younger than me. Do I get two tickets

[meemiathai]

I am just suggesting I am a bigot who thinks people with 20+ years age gap should not be together. If they do, they should be looked down at.

Okay MMT (lol), I don't think I agree with this one but have to admit that were I as young as I suspect you are, I would agree wholeheartedly.

My wife is 30 years younger but when we met, she was/is an intelligent, self-educated adult woman who was 30-years of age so I really don't think that I could be accused of 'robbing the cradle'. Nor am I some fat (6'2", 180 lbs), gimping old drunken geezer as many on this forum would paint us. We motorcycle together, engage in mountain trekking, skydiving, ultralight flying, traveling the world and my avatar is a pic of myself taken just a couple of years ago. Yup, ugly as sin but as energetic as many of my male friends who are decades younger and I don't even know what a Viagra pill looks like.

Now, had I been 45 and she was 15, someone should have, if not put me in prison for much of the rest of my life, removed my gonads. And, obviously, a few in this thread would perhaps like to do that today...

I hope you do realize I was just being sarcastic with that sentence.

Wow! Sky-diving? You should feel lucky that I am not the one in control! Or else you would be disallowed to leave home at your age!

BTW, I am 38, wife 30.

[lazeeboy]

people do tend to look down there noses at spring and winter relationships on this thread ,but in hollywood it has been going on for years and everyone excepts it ,i cant see the difference ...........

Edited August 25, 2007 by sbk
deleted inflammatory posts in quotes removed

[Dustoff]

Stop banging on about the sun rising as if you are somehow introducing precision and definition into the topic...........It doesn't rise, just goes to show you can't even define your terms correctly. Your pseudo scientific analysis is exactly that..... pseudo. Its the mark of a patronising man too when you talk of women and children as the saviours of the world. They are like us, we are like them. You dont marry old ladies and why should a woman who is young want an older man? I can accpet that you are a nice guy and no doubt love your wife dearly as she probably loves you, but as a rational man you must concede that the average falang protests too much. None of our wives are hookers, if they were they are all reformed. They all married for love despite their background. We all know lots of bad relationships, perhaps the majority, but its never ours. We concede that the young girls are often out to get what they can, given the inequality they face they have little option but its never our wife always someone else. As long as there's a failure to face facts theres a danger of it all falling apart. When it does its catastrophic. take the blinkers off see what the real dynamics of relations ships between old and young are........security for sex, youth for money. Falang men steal their youth and they take our money for it. Though of course you and I are exceptions.

You continue to be very lucid and eloquent, ratchabuild.

Umm, okay.. lucid and eloquent..

Geez, CG, did you actually read that post or do you just like that it agrees with your own position..?

Whew...

[ColPyat]

Sorry I was at work. So did not carefully answer.

Weight of wives - dumping? If you get my point here I am sure you should know what my answers are. I will not dump my wife no matter what she becomes. I could lick her all over even if she has just been pulled up from a sewage. And for others, it is none of my business as long as no one is looking for help from me.

And for Communication, again how do we know exactly? You or me might think they cannot communicate but maybe they can!

Communication is not only by language, how do you think animals communicate? I spoke the same language as my ex-gf but I communicate much better with my now wife even when we did not speak a common language.

I understand you peoples' concern. And I don't think I am any different. But you just don't treat every bloody case the same and treat them unfairly. It is like saying my father has a moustarche then justifies saying the ones who have moustarche is my father.

Well, wasn't that the OP was about, and what i and others argued so vehemently against? The OP brought up these gross comments about men with fat western wifes being "the looser" against a westerner with a young Thai wife, while your side of the coin came in defending the right of personal pursuit of happiness, as some argued, and the right of the white man, as another argued, and your side of the debate than trying to stop the discussion by lashing out against us "bigots and "femnazis"?

Eh, yes, animals communicate. It appears that some men are content that the communication with their wifes stays at the same level.

And no, neither do i treat every case as the same. That is why we have the usage of the terms such as 'some', 'most', 'many', which i have consistently used throughout this thread, and also pointing out that there are exception of whom i do know several.

But that you don't read.

[meemiathai]

Wow, this thing at 28 pages!! Must be close to a record. I guess I should make a couple of stirs to the hornets nest. Seems like some people on here are getting rabid about age differences. If the couple are truly in love with each other, happy amd compatible and it is not a "for money" deal, then more power to them. For the "straight & narrows" in the crowd, some "Good Christian" churches frown on unions with major age differences. One told me their "guideline" was no more than 5 years difference. So, if you are looking for a ticket to heaven, best you conform. Otherwise, get out of Dodge & pick up your coal shovel on the way.

I am in Heaven already. What I post here are God's words!

[ColPyat]

people do tend to look down there noses at spring and winter relationships on this thread ,but in hollywood it has been going on for years and everyone excepts it ,i cant see the difference ...........

Well, entirely up to you to model your values at rather dysfunctional and uncultured celebrities. I don't.

[meemiathai]

What is your view on this particular case of a 17 year old girl introduced by her dad to a 58 year old wealthy westerner. Is that perfectly alright, or is there some slight problem? Are you able to make a moral judgment in such a case, or do you evade it? Doesn't this scenario make you feel uncomfortable as well?

If the girl does not want it, that is absolutely not alright for me! If the father forces her to do so, it is disgusting for me!

However, if the girl likes the idea, it would be perfectly ok for me.

[ColPyat]

What is your view on this particular case of a 17 year old girl introduced by her dad to a 58 year old wealthy westerner. Is that perfectly alright, or is there some slight problem? Are you able to make a moral judgment in such a case, or do you evade it? Doesn't this scenario make you feel uncomfortable as well?

If the girl does not want it, that is absolutely not alright for me! If the father forces her to do so, it is disgusting for me!

However, if the girl likes the idea, it would be perfectly ok for me.

...and in the real world things are unfortunately rarely that clearcut. Family pressures and perverted tradition of filial duty here puts this into a real greyzone where such easy judgments are rarely applicable. That, and that a bloke from a society where such is not acceptable takes advantage of such a greyzone case because he can, makes me very uncomfortable.

[meemiathai]

Sorry I was at work. So did not carefully answer.

Weight of wives - dumping? If you get my point here I am sure you should know what my answers are. I will not dump my wife no matter what she becomes. I could lick her all over even if she has just been pulled up from a sewage. And for others, it is none of my business as long as no one is looking for help from me.

And for Communication, again how do we know exactly? You or me might think they cannot communicate but maybe they can!

Communication is not only by language, how do you think animals communicate? I spoke the same language as my ex-gf but I communicate much better with my now wife even when we did not speak a common language.

I understand you peoples' concern. And I don't think I am any different. But you just don't treat every bloody case the same and treat them unfairly. It is like saying my father has a moustarche then justifies saying the ones who have moustarche is my father.

Well, wasn't that the OP was about, and what i and others argued so vehemently against? The OP brought up these gross comments about men with fat western wifes being "the looser" against a westerner with a young Thai wife, while your side of the coin came in defending the right of personal pursuit of happiness, as some argued, and the right of the white man, as another argued, and your side of the debate than trying to stop the discussion by lashing out against us "bigots and "femnazis"?

Eh, yes, animals communicate. It appears that some men are content that the communication with their wifes stays at the same level.

And no, neither do i treat every case as the same. That is why we have the usage of the terms such as 'some', 'most', 'many', which i have consistently used throughout this thread, and also pointing out that there are exception of whom i do know several.

But that you don't read.

So communication is the responsibilities of men only?

No need to get impatient CP, it is true I didn't read. I didn't read the entire thread which I have difficulties in understand what the whole point is about with this thread. I only posted in response to some parts of the posts here which I want to clarify.

Forgive my reading skills.

[Cobalt60]

Yes yes yes, never mind all that, where can we find this Father with the 17 year old he is trying to get rid of.

Anyway, dont forget to nip over and say Hi if you spot in me in MBK