51 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

When you teach your children the US, Israel, Iraq, England, Germany, etc suck and need to be destroyed, a child grows up thinking it's a good thing to kill others. Brainwashing goes a long way and stays a long time until they see the light.When you teach your children the US, Israel, Iraq, England, Germany, etc suck and need to be destroyed, a child grows up thinking it's a good thing to kill others. Brainwashing goes a long way and stays a long time until they see the light.

Brainwashing works both ways.

2 minutes ago, Hummin said:

You are wrong in pretending the only choices are extermination or surrender. The real question is whether methods that kill civilians, destroy societies, and create more enemies actually create peace. When the peacekeeper becomes the terrorist, the moral argument collapses.

And that is the pattern: the U.S. and Israel encourage resistance in the name of freedom, but civilians and protesters end up paying the price. Thousands are killed, thousands more are jailed, and the support that comes is too often bombs, fear, and destruction rather than protection. Then their bigotry is turned into yet another reason to ‘liberate’ them from the brutal regime. That is not peacekeeping. It is power dressed up as morality.

Like I said, terrorists are created daily in the homes. How do you stop this? Education can help some, but people get to a point where they will not change their thinking, as they've also been brainwashed into thinking terror is an okay option. I'm still asking what other choices are there, as no one seems to have any other ideas. There are people right now who are planning hurting of many others, by bombs, guns, knives, molestations, rapes, theft, scams, manipulations, cheating, beatings and other ways. How do you stop this?

Most everyone wants peace but like all relationships on earth, it takes two. If one side says death to the US, do you say, okay, you can keep on killing and we won't do anything about it, or do you strike before they do? Negotiation works when both sides can benefit with money or goods, which is what should happen as everyone wins. When you have people plotting killing, they aren't looking at negotiation but elimination, and it's better they go than us.

Again, how do you have peace when others don't? Democracy works, and is what Iran needs, but it's up to them to get it. Iran's regime was a threat to many countries and not only a few neighbors. Killing innocents isn't what anyone wants besides the terrorists. The US doesn't want to kill innocents but it happens because they have homes and businesses next to military places, which is not our fault. This is what they do, and because they don't care. What else can be done to stop them and not hurt innocents?

13 minutes ago, Hummin said:

You are wrong in pretending the only choices are extermination or surrender. The real question is whether methods that kill civilians, destroy societies, and create more enemies actually create peace. When the peacekeeper becomes the terrorist, the moral argument collapses.

And that is the pattern: the U.S. and Israel encourage resistance in the name of freedom, but civilians and protesters end up paying the price. Thousands are killed, thousands more are jailed, and the support that comes is too often bombs, fear, and destruction rather than protection. Then their bigotry is turned into yet another reason to ‘liberate’ them from the brutal regime. That is not peacekeeping. It is power dressed up as morality.

This has nothing to do with freedom. Brainwashing goes a long way.

1 minute ago, stevenl said:

Brainwashing works both ways.

1 minute ago, stevenl said:

Actually only one way but any side, meaning a government or other power, or opposing sides, can use it as a form of control. When it's done with children, it's to control their thinking to one side, to have them follow, hopefully blindly, doing what the controlling side wants.

4 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

Like I said, terrorists are created daily in the homes. How do you stop this? Education can help some, but people get to a point where they will not change their thinking, as they've also been brainwashed into thinking terror is an okay option. I'm still asking what other choices are there, as no one seems to have any other ideas. There are people right now who are planning hurting of many others, by bombs, guns, knives, molestations, rapes, theft, scams, manipulations, cheating, beatings and other ways. How do you stop this?

Most everyone wants peace but like all relationships on earth, it takes two. If one side says death to the US, do you say, okay, you can keep on killing and we won't do anything about it, or do you strike before they do? Negotiation works when both sides can benefit with money or goods, which is what should happen as everyone wins. When you have people plotting killing, they aren't looking at negotiation but elimination, and it's better they go than us.

Again, how do you have peace when others don't? Democracy works, and is what Iran needs, but it's up to them to get it. Iran's regime was a threat to many countries and not only a few neighbors. Killing innocents isn't what anyone wants besides the terrorists. The US doesn't want to kill innocents but it happens because they have homes and businesses next to military places, which is not our fault. This is what they do, and because they don't care. What else can be done to stop them and not hurt innocents?

Your whole argument assumes that state violence is legitimate by default. That is exactly where the debate ends, and where we start going in circles.

Just now, Hummin said:

Your whole argument assumes that state violence is legitimate by default. That is exactly where the debate ends, and where we start going in circles.

Just now, Hummin said:

This new article here is more like a plan I think would work. I don't like violence but it sometimes works, especially when the other side doesn't believe in negotiations but death............."Beat Iran without boots on the ground: America's smarter war plan."

15 minutes ago, stevenl said:

This has nothing to do with freedom. Brainwashing goes a long way.

That is exactly my point. It has very little to do with freedom. Freedom is the slogan; power is the reality. Brainwashing just makes the violence easier to justify and easier for people to digest, while creating emotional distance from the reality of what is actually going on.

Thank you for saying that, because it proves my point.

4 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

This new article here is more like a plan I think would work. I don't like violence but it sometimes works, especially when the other side doesn't believe in negotiations but death............."Beat Iran without boots on the ground: America's smarter war plan."

And you still do not see the mirror effect: the ‘smarter war plan’ uses the same logic every time — violence sold as stability, domination sold as security, and the next cycle of hatred sold as peace.” The piece he cites is an opinion article arguing for pressure and military force without a ground invasion, while the White House has said ground troops are “not part of the plan … at this time” but has not ruled them out.

2 minutes ago, Hummin said:

And you still do not see the mirror effect: the ‘smarter war plan’ uses the same logic every time — violence sold as stability, domination sold as security, and the next cycle of hatred sold as peace.” The piece he cites is an opinion article arguing for pressure and military force without a ground invasion, while the White House has said ground troops are “not part of the plan … at this time” but has not ruled them out.

2 minutes ago, Hummin said:

I've seen what works and what doesn't all along, yet still haven't heard any other ways to have peace with these types. This isn't a few people arguing but nations against nations, and quite a few involved, who all have their own agendas, including money. Sometimes harsh tactics need to be used, as you can't get everyone to agree to come to terms. That plan makes as much or more sense as anything else. Again, these aren't normal thinkers but those who look at death to the US and Israel, and how else do you respond to that?

Japan, mentioned earlier, wasn't going to quit anytime soon, even though they were weakened. It took 2 bombs for Mamoru Shigemitsu and Yoshijiro Umezu to sign after Hirohito's declaration to give up, when one should have been more than enough. Looking at how many Japanese soldiers treated their prisoners, there wasn't any other way but violence to stop them. They believed in Kamikaze, whereas Americans aren't that way, looking at life, living, as precious. The same with Iran's leaders and their after death thinking.

4 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

I've seen what works and what doesn't all along, yet still haven't heard any other ways to have peace with these types. This isn't a few people arguing but nations against nations, and quite a few involved, who all have their own agendas, including money. Sometimes harsh tactics need to be used, as you can't get everyone to agree to come to terms. That plan makes as much or more sense as anything else. Again, these aren't normal thinkers but those who look at death to the US and Israel, and how else do you respond to that?

Japan, mentioned earlier, wasn't going to quit anytime soon, even though they were weakened. It took 2 bombs for Mamoru Shigemitsu and Yoshijiro Umezu to sign after Hirohito's declaration to give up, when one should have been more than enough. Looking at how many Japanese soldiers treated their prisoners, there wasn't any other way but violence to stop them. They believed in Kamikaze, whereas Americans aren't that way, looking at life, living, as precious. The same with Iran's leaders and their after death thinking.

As I said, we going in circles

1 hour ago, fredwiggy said:

Actually only one way but any side, meaning a government or other power, or opposing sides, can use it as a form of control. When it's done with children, it's to control their thinking to one side, to have them follow, hopefully blindly, doing what the controlling side wants.

Sorry to see my post was too difficult for you to understand.

1 minute ago, stevenl said:

Sorry to see my post was too difficult for you to understand.

Sorry to see we have another that assumes. In case you're wondering, I'm very aware of how brainwashing works.

8 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

Sorry to see we have another that assumes. In case you're wondering, I'm very aware of how brainwashing works.

I'm not wondering and you clearly don't see through the brainwashing.

1 minute ago, stevenl said:

A pity then you can't see you have been brainwashed.

By whom? Don't say Trump, as that would have you not reading all I've ever said about him

2 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

By whom? Don't say Trump, as that would have you not reading all I've ever said about him

Thanks for underlining my earlier post.

"Brainwashing works both ways."

1 minute ago, stevenl said:

Thanks for underlining my earlier post.

"Brainwashing works both ways."

1 minute ago, stevenl said:

Classic example of why skimming never works.

On 4/3/2026 at 1:59 PM, fredwiggy said:

Attrition wins if it's finished. Pulling out it isn't.This wasn't about a regime change but elimination of terrorist leaders. Besides that it's just a shooting gallery and not a war.

.. in which the 'beacon on the hill' intends bombing 90 million people 'back into the Stone Age' because some cheap prole and his 77 million doozies are in a rage.

Paid for by Medicare.

1 minute ago, BusyB said:

.. in which the 'beacon on the hill' intends bombing 90 million people 'back into the Stone Age' because some cheap prole and his 77 million doozies are in a rage.

Paid for by Medicare.

I'm wondering why some assume I'm on Trump's side in his actions on certain things just because I mentioned I'm against terrorism. I've been aware of his behavior long before he became president. I'm just like millions of other Americans, hoping what he initiates doesn't cause world problems and losses for the average American.

On 4/3/2026 at 9:15 AM, johng said:

And from now on Israel will always be bombed by some one

Cool. Nations or slimy murderous scum? Got some info on this upcoming campaign?

On 4/3/2026 at 9:25 AM, beautifulthailand99 said:

If you ever had a soul then your certainly haven't got one now. But that explains why your worship Trump and Baal.

Got it. A euro Neo National socialist who slavishly worships Hitler and Khomeini telling an American he has no soul. What a world hahahahahaha

3 hours ago, fredwiggy said:

I'm wondering why some assume I'm on Trump's side in his actions on certain things just because I mentioned I'm against terrorism. I've been aware of his behavior long before he became president. I'm just like millions of other Americans, hoping what he initiates doesn't cause world problems and losses for the average American.

I have always assumed you're 'OK' whatever your leanings. You tend to align with my approach. My comment was about the content of your post ... I was adding to it. Looks like it came across wrong. Sorry about that - no offense intended (never is).

Edit: But it is definitely a war just like Russia's 'Special Operation' against Ukraine.

The US is also playing to Putin with the Iran war. And Trump himself said it recently: we can all buy American oil now. Gas as well now since Iran (quite understandably) destroyed Qatar's production, upon which Germany depends since we cancelled Russian gas.

Like it or not, every American voter either created, allowed or promoted the US government and all it does. And I see noone taking responsibility. It's always someone else. Apparently there was no alternative. Jesus wept.

It struck me this morning as I perused the papers, here we are again. I remember when I was entering my teens and seeing the most powerful and richest country sending humans to the moon, while napalming little Vietnamese village kids to 'save' them from the awful communists.

Trang Bang 1972, Apollo missions. Minab 2026, Artemis II.

54 years, doing the same thing over again expecting different results. But this time the effects are global.

Glad to see the EU and other democratic countries finally responding.

5 hours ago, fredwiggy said:

I've seen what works and what doesn't all along, yet still haven't heard any other ways to have peace with these types. This isn't a few people arguing but nations against nations, and quite a few involved, who all have their own agendas, including money. Sometimes harsh tactics need to be used, as you can't get everyone to agree to come to terms. That plan makes as much or more sense as anything else. Again, these aren't normal thinkers but those who look at death to the US and Israel, and how else do you respond to that?

Japan, mentioned earlier, wasn't going to quit anytime soon, even though they were weakened. It took 2 bombs for Mamoru Shigemitsu and Yoshijiro Umezu to sign after Hirohito's declaration to give up, when one should have been more than enough. Looking at how many Japanese soldiers treated their prisoners, there wasn't any other way but violence to stop them. They believed in Kamikaze, whereas Americans aren't that way, looking at life, living, as precious. The same with Iran's leaders and their after death thinking.

Does your (and others) knowledge of history stretch as far as 1953 in Iran? That might give you pause for thought.

The US has only ever been a destructive force and enemy of Iran. The only reason we got the ayatollahs is because of US (and UK) action to sequester and siphon off Iranian oil for Britain. And then the US desperate attempts to keep the murderous torturer Rehza Pahlevi in power as it satrap. Forgotten all that eh?

The US supplied Saddam's Iraq with chemical (the hypocrisy) and other weapons and funded a decade long war of attrition against Iran that cost almost a whole generation of youths their lives. Do you think the rest grew up with friendly feelings towards Uncle Sam? Are you utterly unable to learn from your mistakes?

Just bloody stop! That's all. Stop! Let go! Who the hell do you think you are?

There was a working nuclear agreement with Iran which was functioning and the highly enriched uranium was being downgraded rapidly. Stockpiles had shrunk to virtually useless. Nuclear infrastructure demolished. All other countries involved and international organizations monitored it and said it was working.

The US (Trump) canceled the whole shebang, upon which Tehran began developing nuclear stockpiles again. They had seen Trump grovel to Little Rocket Boy and Putin. What else did you expect. Feeling proud now cos you can bomb their schools? Ah, yeah, OK, accidents do happen in special military operations aka wars don't they? Didn't mean to. That's OK then innit?

Just bloody stop it! Stop it!

Just step back. Take a deep breath. Admit responsibility. Maybe if you promise restitution you might win some friends there. Rebuild, like after WWII in Europe. Good for US firms and the economy as well. Win-win. Do something decent to Iran for the first time in history. How about that eh? Novel idea that.

And realize you stop this kind of war with peace not by bombing 90 million people back into the Stone Age. Ninety. Bloody. Million. Condemned to misery and death by a barely literate boganprole felon and sex offender with cash - think about that. Back into the Stone Age. Which I believe is a Nixon or Kissinger quote about your relations with Vietnam some time back. You simply don't want to learn do you?

The US (like the UK) is a deeply sick country still stuck in a mythical past, that can't handle the changing world and how it's developed since the fall of the Iron Curtain. Trump is but a symptom.

Time to get a bloody grip! The whole sodding lot of you!

8 hours ago, Slowhand225 said:

You should get your eyes checked.

Hint, nobody's playing golf in your picture

Looks like Danish Rounders.

8 hours ago, fredwiggy said:

Yes, Japan was falling, but how many on both side would have died until it ended? No one knows. Eliminating terrorists is necessary, and what other way is there? That's been my point all along. Many here are against Americans because of Trump's actions, but no one has any ideas that would be better. Violence sometimes begets violence but violence definitely stops violence many times.

The leaders make the decisions. We can only sit back and think what would be a better plan. This is why leaders are elected, as they're supposed to know better than we do how to handle threats to our countries. Many complain about them but complaining only works when you have a voice, meaning a lot of people against a side. Iran's people tried this, as did many other countries people, and they're silenced for it.

I've seen all my life what violence does, and still no one has any legitimate answers how to stop terrorism as it begins at home. What's definite is that they are here, they are created every day, they do not negotiate, they care nothing about anyone but their own supposed life afterwards, they hate others who they don't understand, and the only way to stop them is to exterminate them.

Trump thought Khomeini wasn't going to negotiate, so he acted. Was he right? No one knows besides those leaders who were killed, and their followers. Maybe they would have been sending missiles in a week, or maybe not.

What creates peace? Two sides wanting peace and doing what's necessary to have it. This means no nuclear weapons anywhere worldwide, as they're only designed to kill thousands, and if they're in the wrong hands, innocents die because of one maniacs decision. Next comes retaliation, and thousands more die. A game which no one wins. The world only wins when all these types aren't allowed to act. Education at home works only when people have an open mind for something peaceful. When you teach your children the US, Israel, Iraq, England, Germany, etc suck and need to be destroyed, a child grows up thinking it's a good thing to kill others. Brainwashing goes a long way and stays a long time until they see the light.

I explained to you in Northern Ireland in another thread, in the end that it wasn't necessay to "eliminate all terrorists", unless you don't view the IRA/INLA as terrorists. You do view the Provisional Irish Republican Army as a terrorist organisation right? I just remembered, you're part Irish, so who knows. Maybe you were shaking the Noraid tin.

7 hours ago, Hummin said:

Your whole argument assumes that state violence is legitimate by default.

Cool. give us your country then. You can still vote for governor. Bad food, nice scenery, Good moose hunting. Oil too.

Look at that we didnt need to fire a shot.

8 hours ago, fredwiggy said:

Read again what I wrote, and tell me where I'm wrong. Basically I'm still waiting for someone to tell all of us a better way to handle things when terrorists are involved, which is what I've been referring to all along. How do you make peace when other people want death to innocents?

At this time of year, remember the Good Friday Agreement as a model. Also can include talks between the Apartheid South African Government and ANC. And the Basque Seperatists and the Spanish Government. You might also also reflect how the British dealt with the Irgun and Stern Gang terrorists, who were intent on attacking the British, soldiers and civilians alike.

Ultimately what caused the British government to evacuate their troops was the so-called Sergeant's Affair. The British had in custody 3 terrorists, who had been charged, tried and sentenced to death. The terrorists kidnapped Sergeant Clifford Martin and Sergeant Mervyn Paice, and threatened to hang them if the British carried out the sentence. The sentence was carried out. The terrorists then hanged the British soldiers, moved their bodies to a grove, hung the corpses and booby trapped them.

As a result, the British withdrew from Palestine, and terrorist attacks on British soldiers stopped. So there is another approach, since you are not a fan of jaw Jaw, and prefer war war.

1 hour ago, BusyB said:

Does your (and others) knowledge of history stretch as far as 1953 in Iran? That might give you pause for thought.

The US has only ever been a destructive force and enemy of Iran. The only reason we got the ayatollahs is because of US (and UK) action to sequester and siphon off Iranian oil for Britain. And then the US desperate attempts to keep the murderous torturer Rehza Pahlevi in power as it satrap. Forgotten all that eh?

The US supplied Saddam's Iraq with chemical (the hypocrisy) and other weapons and funded a decade long war of attrition against Iran that cost almost a whole generation of youths their lives. Do you think the rest grew up with friendly feelings towards Uncle Sam? Are you utterly unable to learn from your mistakes?

Just bloody stop! That's all. Stop! Let go! Who the hell do you think you are?

There was a working nuclear agreement with Iran which was functioning and the highly enriched uranium was being downgraded rapidly. Stockpiles had shrunk to virtually useless. Nuclear infrastructure demolished. All other countries involved and international organizations monitored it and said it was working.

The US (Trump) canceled the whole shebang, upon which Tehran began developing nuclear stockpiles again. They had seen Trump grovel to Little Rocket Boy and Putin. What else did you expect. Feeling proud now cos you can bomb their schools? Ah, yeah, OK, accidents do happen in special military operations aka wars don't they? Didn't mean to. That's OK then innit?

Just bloody stop it! Stop it!

Just step back. Take a deep breath. Admit responsibility. Maybe if you promise restitution you might win some friends there. Rebuild, like after WWII in Europe. Good for US firms and the economy as well. Win-win. Do something decent to Iran for the first time in history. How about that eh? Novel idea that.

And realize you stop this kind of war with peace not by bombing 90 million people back into the Stone Age. Ninety. Bloody. Million. Condemned to misery and death by a barely literate boganprole felon and sex offender with cash - think about that. Back into the Stone Age. Which I believe is a Nixon or Kissinger quote about your relations with Vietnam some time back. You simply don't want to learn do you?

The US (like the UK) is a deeply sick country still stuck in a mythical past, that can't handle the changing world and how it's developed since the fall of the Iron Curtain. Trump is but a symptom.

Time to get a bloody grip! The whole sodding lot of you!

Unfortunately, America seems to have evolved into a society which disclaims responsibility at nearly every turn. We are not responsible for screwing up safe passage in the Strait of Hormuz. We are not reponsible for unemployment caused by tariffs. We are not responsible for oil being above $100 a barrel. We are not responsible for the deaths of 160 schoolkids, and so on.

A fish rots from the head down.

51 minutes ago, CallumWK said:

This should be a pinned post in this forum

Thats a nugget:

“MAGA spent years warning about a Kamala disaster, only for Trump to turn it into reality.”

The irony is pure tragedy comedy

1 hour ago, Yagoda said:

Cool. give us your country then. You can still vote for governor. Bad food, nice scenery, Good moose hunting. Oil too.

Look at that we didnt need to fire a shot.

I do not think we are engaging with this at the same depth, and that makes any further discussion pointless.

8 minutes ago, Hummin said:

I do not think we are engaging with this at the same depth, and that makes any further discussion pointless.

Got it. Run like you guys did from the Germans and Iranians

5 power plants provide most of the power for Israel - all the eggs are in one basket. So yes Trump just do it . Iran can go down in a blaze of glory. Even Jewish commentors are worried a with what they have unleashed.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/as-iran-war-enters-sixth-week-escalation-looks-the-most-likely-scenario/

Two optimistic scenarios are unlikely to play out. Despite repeated assertions from Israel that there are “visible cracks” in the Iranian regime, it’s not about to fall. US intelligence assessments say that the regime is likely to remain in place, with the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps holding even more control.

Nor are the Iranians going to run out of missiles or drones. Israel and the US have destroyed hundreds of Iranian missiles and launchers, but Israel believes that the country has over 1,000 left, according to an IAF intelligence officer, and will be able to keep firing for as long as the war goes on.